How Corrupt Is Thailand, Your Perception.

[Salapoo]

How Corrupt Is Thailand, Your Perception.

From the very top to the very bottom, and everything in between.

Our conclusion ? It's up to you ! You want to do the right thing ? People are happy to help. You want to cut the queue ? It has a cost.

As a politician here once said, 'Thais, the nicest people money can buy'.

[wilcopops]

In a survey in the papers today 65% of people asked said they thought corruption was OK so long as they personally benefited from it.

Now that is the route of the problem - a population that can't see any other way.

If it doesn't bother them, why should it bother you?

This gets my vote for the most facile comment on the thread.

[wilcopops]

How Corrupt Is Thailand, Your Perception.

From the very top to the very bottom, and everything in between.

Our conclusion ? It's up to you ! You want to do the right thing ? People are happy to help. You want to cut the queue ? It has a cost.

As a politician here once said, 'Thais, the nicest people money can buy'.

Not a politician -Spalding Grey - actor/writer

[wilcopops]

If you have never lived in Africa then you have no idea what corruption really is.

This is a completely spurious argument. The poster thinks that by stating his personal experience of another continent he is somehow contributing to the discussion..... I'd like to hear how.

What arguement?

QED

[Litlos]

My impression is for the government projects Thailand runs about 30% lost due to corruption, subject to revaluation after the current rice scam pricing is reviewed. The attitude of the average Thai is lets do something about corruption, immediately after my turn at the trough

After working in Bangladesh for a while I realised the corruption rate there was closer to 90%, if in doubt Google "bangladesh padma bridge corruption". It is not often the World Bank bails out on a project, but have done so this time.

In Australia there is no official prosecuted corruption, we just have the elected government giving lots of unnecessary power to their mates the unions. Would probably called corruption elsewhere due to the costs.

In conclusion we either have corruption Thai style (middle of the road) or the excesses of Bangladesh and Australia in their various forms. So basically up to you what you do and live with.

Cheers

[NewlyMintedThai]

In a survey in the papers today 65% of people asked said they thought corruption was OK so long as they personally benefited from it.

Now that is the route of the problem - a population that can't see any other way.

If it doesn't bother them, why should it bother you?

This gets my vote for the most facile comment on the thread.

Intentionally so.

The point being, things will change when and only when the Thais themselves want it to.

In the meantime, try to enjoy the small pleasures the status quo brings: prescription drugs over the counter, dodgy brand name goods and movies sold freely on the streets, 100 baht traffic fines on the spot rather than a trip to the cop shop, naughty (illegal) nightlife in plain view, and the comfort in knowing that should you ever really screw up big, you can probably buy yourself out of a stay at the Bangkok Hilton.

[NewlyMintedThai]

In a survey in the papers today 65% of people asked said they thought corruption was OK so long as they personally benefited from it.

Now that is the route of the problem - a population that can't see any other way.

If it doesn't bother them, why should it bother you?

This gets my vote for the most facile comment on the thread.

Intentionally so.

The point being, things will change when and only when the Thais themselves want it to.

In the meantime, try to enjoy the small pleasures the status quo brings: prescription drugs over the counter, dodgy brand name goods and movies sold freely on the streets, 100 baht traffic fines on the spot rather than a trip to the cop shop, naughty (illegal) nightlife in plain view, and the comfort in knowing that should you ever really screw up big, you can probably buy yourself out of a stay at the Bangkok Hilton.

[pistachios]

Just a few examples

- a school director used the budget to build a library to buy himself a new BMW

- killer cop slam dunk case is stopped even before it reaches the judge's office

- money and connection can make the most horrible crimes disappear like the cop killed in a night club by ***

- national park land parcels are being sold by high officials

- minister says in the media it is normal to give cops tea money when caught by CCTV

- village mayor build himself a new villa as soon as he is elected

- public buses are being bought for 20 times their actual value

The common point in all those cases is that even when the story reaches the media, nothing is being done to stop it and nobody is ever being punished.

Knowing all that, I find it very surprising that there are still some national forests left in the country, that the cops don't harass any shop owner or kill anybody they dislike, or that officials don't blatantly steal even more public money. After all, nothing at all is set in place to at least kind of restraint those behaviors.

Thailand is actually a pretty well run country when looking at the big picture. Hospitals, electricity, schools, infrastructure, etc. are ok-ish. It seems like corrupted persons have some kind of self restraint to prevent the country from complete failure. But greed has no limits, and since there is currently no downside and no risk at all to being corrupt, I fear that it could become much worse.

[wilcopops]

to suggest that "only Thais" can do something is equally facile.....corruption effects EVERYBODY in Thailand whether directly or indirectly.

THe country's distribution of wealth is very lopsided and part of the cause is corruption - only the rich benefit in the long run and the rest of us pay....to think otherwise is naive.

what can expats and non-thais do? Well Thailand does not exist in isolation - it has to trade and whether with an individual or multi-national we can insist that the corruption stops here.....recently a journo photographed a civil servant demanding a bribe, as yet I have paid every 200 baht asked of me.....but if and when I got the chance to video it, I WILL.

whether through direct action or simply repeatedly shaming in public and globally, Thailand will eventually become ashamed of their international image.

One ray of hope I've mentioned before - in Europe now most dealings with the Government on a day-to-day basis is "digital by default" - i.e. done over the net - so when I send off for my driving licence, it's pretty hard for a desk clerk to ask for a kick-back.....so lets hope Thailand embraces this concept.

"I've been fined quite a lot. But never for something i didn't do."

Let me offer an ad hoc definition of a fine.........

A "fine" is something you are ordered to pay by the judiciary as a penalty for a law you have transgressed. I have paid a speeding fine as a result of a speed trap - I sent the money order to the police of that region. The fine was documented and a photo of my vehicle was sent to me.

I assume that the money was then deposited in the right place - I haven't ay proof of that. I also assume that the speed camera was calibrated and that I was the driver - although in the picture it isn't clear......if I was in Europe, I would have easily checked out all of this, but in Thailand I don't, I tend to just accept it.

However on SEVERAL occasions I've been stopped by police who have claimed both correctly and incorrectly that I was committing some minor traffic offence, the result has been no paperwork whatsoever, but it is usually followed by the handing over of cash without a receipt. The transactions have pretty much invariably been carried out in a friendly way and I have been allowed to continue on my way often without any document or vehicle safety checks.

What are these officers doing? they are apparently "extorting" money from motorists regardless of whether or not they have committed an offence, no due process of law is carried out and I very much doubt that any of the money goes into the coffers it is supposed to.

THis practice is common, ubiquitous, endemic, pandemic and epidemic in Thailand and accepted by a ;large number of the populace as the norm.

It is NOT, it is a flagrant abuse of power and the law and a huge obstacle to Thailand ever becomimng a truly "free" or democratic country.

The fact is that this sort of behaviour is accepted by a vast number of the Thai population and exists in every aspect of business and government from the lowliest civil servant right to the highest echelons of Thai authority.

comparing this level corruption to that of other countries is pretty much becomes a furphy or red herring; it is Thailand that needs to address its own problem and the situation in other countries (better or worse) in no way justifies the situation in Thailand.

Edited July 8, 2013 by wilcopops

[GrantSmith]

Intentionally so.

The point being, things will change when and only when the Thais themselves want it to.

In the meantime, try to enjoy the small pleasures the status quo brings: prescription drugs over the counter, dodgy brand name goods and movies sold freely on the streets, 100 baht traffic fines on the spot rather than a trip to the cop shop, naughty (illegal) nightlife in plain view, and the comfort in knowing that should you ever really screw up big, you can probably buy yourself out of a stay at the Bangkok Hilton.

I'll drink to that!

[Naam]

Just a few examples

- a school director used the budget to build a library to buy himself a new BMW

- killer cop slam dunk case is stopped even before it reaches the judge's office

- money and connection can make the most horrible crimes disappear like the cop killed in a night club by ***

- national park land parcels are being sold by high officials

- minister says in the media it is normal to give cops tea money when caught by CCTV

- village mayor build himself a new villa as soon as he is elected

- public buses are being bought for 20 times their actual value

The common point in all those cases is that even when the story reaches the media, nothing is being done to stop it and nobody is ever being punished.

Knowing all that, I find it very surprising that there are still some national forests left in the country, that the cops don't harass any shop owner or kill anybody they dislike, or that officials don't blatantly steal even more public money. After all, nothing at all is set in place to at least kind of restraint those behaviors.

Thailand is actually a pretty well run country when looking at the big picture. Hospitals, electricity, schools, infrastructure, etc. are ok-ish. It seems like corrupted persons have some kind of self restraint to prevent the country from complete failure. But greed has no limits, and since there is currently no downside and no risk at all to being corrupt, I fear that it could become much worse.

some of the points you mentioned are embezzlement, theft, fraud but not corruption.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Naam

[NewlyMintedThai]

to suggest that "only Thais" can do something is equally facile.....corruption effects EVERYBODY in Thailand whether directly or indirectly.

THe country's distribution of wealth is very lopsided and part of the cause is corruption - only the rich benefit in the long run and the rest of us pay....to think otherwise is naive.

what can expats and non-thais do? Well Thailand does not exist in isolation - it has to trade and whether with an individual or multi-national we can insist that the corruption stops here.....recently a journo photographed a civil servant demanding a bribe, as yet I have paid every 200 baht asked of me.....but if and when I got the chance to video it, I WILL.

whether through direct action or simply repeatedly shaming in public and globally, Thailand will eventually become ashamed of their international image.

One ray of hope I've mentioned before - in Europe now most dealings with the Government on a day-to-day basis is "digital by default" - i.e. done over the net - so when I send off for my driving licence, it's pretty hard for a desk clerk to ask for a kick-back.....so lets hope Thailand embraces this concept.

"I've been fined quite a lot. But never for something i didn't do."

Let me offer an ad hoc definition of a fine.........

A "fine" is something you are ordered to pay by the judiciary as a penalty for a law you have transgressed. I have paid a speeding fine as a result of a speed trap - I sent the money order to the police of that region. The fine was documented and a photo of my vehicle was sent to me.

I assume that the money was then deposited in the right place - I haven't ay proof of that. I also assume that the speed camera was calibrated and that I was the driver - although in the picture it isn't clear......if I was in Europe, I would have easily checked out all of this, but in Thailand I don't, I tend to just accept it.

However on SEVERAL occasions I've been stopped by police who have claimed both correctly and incorrectly that I was committing some minor traffic offence, the result has been no paperwork whatsoever, but it is usually followed by the handing over of cash without a receipt. The transactions have pretty much invariably been carried out in a friendly way and I have been allowed to continue on my way often without any document or vehicle safety checks.

What are these officers doing? they are apparently "extorting" money from motorists regardless of whether or not they have committed an offence, no due process of law is carried out and I very much doubt that any of the money goes into the coffers it is supposed to.

THis practice is common, ubiquitous, endemic, pandemic and epidemic in Thailand and accepted by a ;large number of the populace as the norm.

It is NOT, it is a flagrant abuse of power and the law and a huge obstacle to Thailand ever becomimng a truly "free" or democratic country.

The fact is that this sort of behaviour is accepted by a vast number of the Thai population and exists in every aspect of business and government from the lowliest civil servant right to the highest echelons of Thai authority.

comparing this level corruption to that of other countries is pretty much becomes a furphy or red herring; it is Thailand that needs to address its own problem and the situation in other countries (better or worse) in no way justifies the situation in Thailand.

So, did you hand over cash like everyone else? Or did you insist on being ticketed, no matter the expense and inconvenience?

It's always your choice, you know.

[rene123]

Despite the bribery and corruption, it just sort of works, and things actually do get done. Occasionally, things do go wrong, but so do they in other countries that are supposedly much better run. I can point to some Canadian programs that were disasters for proof. Although there is the potential for much higher corruption than there is, there is an innate goodness in most of the people and they seem to rise above it. Maybe it is the basic principles of Buddhism that is working.

[transam]

Despite the bribery and corruption, it just sort of works, and things actually do get done. Occasionally, things do go wrong, but so do they in other countries that are supposedly much better run. I can point to some Canadian programs that were disasters for proof. Although there is the potential for much higher corruption than there is, there is an innate goodness in most of the people and they seem to rise above it. Maybe it is the basic principles of Buddhism that is working.

No.

[simple1]

The University of the Thai Chamber of Commerce studied the issue of corruption. The university found that over two percent of national production -- or about 11 billion dollars -- will likely be lost to corruption in 2013; 2% of GDP is huge. Do not know whether these figures include other criminal activity such as embezzlement and fraud.

Another example, an average of US$6.42 billion a year illegally flowed out of Thailand between 2001 and 2010, that's the tip of the iceberg, as it only relates to money being laundered offshore. The Anti-Corruption Organisation of Thailand (ACT), citing results of a study by the US-based Global Financial Integrity (GFI), yesterday pointed to the seriousness of corruption in Thailand. It said the public lost the opportunity to benefit from a huge amount of money that could have been spent on social welfare, education, and wealth redistribution; this is the crux of the matter for corruption in Thailand.

The embedded corruption within Thai government institutions due to paying for the likes of promotions & exams must also have a detrimental impact on Thai society by disincentive to excel by personal effort for promotions. This does not include the trickle down impact to the average Thai citizen for services by people who are promoted beyond their capability to deliver.

[benalibina]

Just a few examples- a school director used the budget to build a library to buy himself a new BMW- killer cop slam dunk case is stopped even before it reaches the judge's office- money and connection can make the most horrible crimes disappear like the cop killed in a night club by ***- national park land parcels are being sold by high officials- minister says in the media it is normal to give cops tea money when caught by CCTV- village mayor build himself a new villa as soon as he is elected- public buses are being bought for 20 times their actual valueThe common point in all those cases is that even when the story reaches the media, nothing is being done to stop it and nobody is ever being punished.Knowing all that, I find it very surprising that there are still some national forests left in the country, that the cops don't harass any shop owner or kill anybody they dislike, or that officials don't blatantly steal even more public money. After all, nothing at all is set in place to at least kind of restraint those behaviors.Thailand is actually a pretty well run country when looking at the big picture. Hospitals, electricity, schools, infrastructure, etc. are ok-ish. It seems like corrupted persons have some kind of self restraint to prevent the country from complete failure. But greed has no limits, and since there is currently no downside and no risk at all to being corrupt, I fear that it could become much worse.

Greed has no limits and corrupted persons have some kind of selfrestraint !! What is it ?

Its all about accountabillity. A thief cannot condemn another thief. Simple as that. Thais do not care to change it, so why should we. Just use it for your benefit or be principle. They do not care about your choice either. Thais have a sense of logic and righteoussnes. It is all about comminicating with them on a calmly and polite manner. With some humour you can get away with silly trafficoffenses. Thais like to laugh !!

[wilcopops]

to suggest that "only Thais" can do something is equally facile.....corruption effects EVERYBODY in Thailand whether directly or indirectly.

THe country's distribution of wealth is very lopsided and part of the cause is corruption - only the rich benefit in the long run and the rest of us pay....to think otherwise is naive.

what can expats and non-thais do? Well Thailand does not exist in isolation - it has to trade and whether with an individual or multi-national we can insist that the corruption stops here.....recently a journo photographed a civil servant demanding a bribe, as yet I have paid every 200 baht asked of me.....but if and when I got the chance to video it, I WILL.

whether through direct action or simply repeatedly shaming in public and globally, Thailand will eventually become ashamed of their international image.

One ray of hope I've mentioned before - in Europe now most dealings with the Government on a day-to-day basis is "digital by default" - i.e. done over the net - so when I send off for my driving licence, it's pretty hard for a desk clerk to ask for a kick-back.....so lets hope Thailand embraces this concept.

"I've been fined quite a lot. But never for something i didn't do."

Let me offer an ad hoc definition of a fine.........

A "fine" is something you are ordered to pay by the judiciary as a penalty for a law you have transgressed. I have paid a speeding fine as a result of a speed trap - I sent the money order to the police of that region. The fine was documented and a photo of my vehicle was sent to me.

I assume that the money was then deposited in the right place - I haven't ay proof of that. I also assume that the speed camera was calibrated and that I was the driver - although in the picture it isn't clear......if I was in Europe, I would have easily checked out all of this, but in Thailand I don't, I tend to just accept it.

However on SEVERAL occasions I've been stopped by police who have claimed both correctly and incorrectly that I was committing some minor traffic offence, the result has been no paperwork whatsoever, but it is usually followed by the handing over of cash without a receipt. The transactions have pretty much invariably been carried out in a friendly way and I have been allowed to continue on my way often without any document or vehicle safety checks.

What are these officers doing? they are apparently "extorting" money from motorists regardless of whether or not they have committed an offence, no due process of law is carried out and I very much doubt that any of the money goes into the coffers it is supposed to.

THis practice is common, ubiquitous, endemic, pandemic and epidemic in Thailand and accepted by a ;large number of the populace as the norm.

It is NOT, it is a flagrant abuse of power and the law and a huge obstacle to Thailand ever becomimng a truly "free" or democratic country.

The fact is that this sort of behaviour is accepted by a vast number of the Thai population and exists in every aspect of business and government from the lowliest civil servant right to the highest echelons of Thai authority.

comparing this level corruption to that of other countries is pretty much becomes a furphy or red herring; it is Thailand that needs to address its own problem and the situation in other countries (better or worse) in no way justifies the situation in Thailand.

So, did you hand over cash like everyone else? Or did you insist on being ticketed, no matter the expense and inconvenience?

It's always your choice, you know.

FHS - read the post

[pistachios]

Just a few examples

- a school director used the budget to build a library to buy himself a new BMW

- killer cop slam dunk case is stopped even before it reaches the judge's office

- money and connection can make the most horrible crimes disappear like the cop killed in a night club by ***

- national park land parcels are being sold by high officials

- minister says in the media it is normal to give cops tea money when caught by CCTV

- village mayor build himself a new villa as soon as he is elected

- public buses are being bought for 20 times their actual value

The common point in all those cases is that even when the story reaches the media, nothing is being done to stop it and nobody is ever being punished.

Knowing all that, I find it very surprising that there are still some national forests left in the country, that the cops don't harass any shop owner or kill anybody they dislike, or that officials don't blatantly steal even more public money. After all, nothing at all is set in place to at least kind of restraint those behaviors.

Thailand is actually a pretty well run country when looking at the big picture. Hospitals, electricity, schools, infrastructure, etc. are ok-ish. It seems like corrupted persons have some kind of self restraint to prevent the country from complete failure. But greed has no limits, and since there is currently no downside and no risk at all to being corrupt, I fear that it could become much worse.

some of the points you mentioned are embezzlement, theft, fraud but not corruption.

Embezzlement, theft and fraud are a direct result of corruption. In all of the point I mentionned, a corrupt government official used his power for personal gain or as a favor to some of his connection. If you don't see corruption there, I suggest you open your dictionnary and check the definition of the word.

[pistachios]

Just a few examples- a school director used the budget to build a library to buy himself a new BMW- killer cop slam dunk case is stopped even before it reaches the judge's office- money and connection can make the most horrible crimes disappear like the cop killed in a night club by ***- national park land parcels are being sold by high officials- minister says in the media it is normal to give cops tea money when caught by CCTV- village mayor build himself a new villa as soon as he is elected- public buses are being bought for 20 times their actual valueThe common point in all those cases is that even when the story reaches the media, nothing is being done to stop it and nobody is ever being punished.Knowing all that, I find it very surprising that there are still some national forests left in the country, that the cops don't harass any shop owner or kill anybody they dislike, or that officials don't blatantly steal even more public money. After all, nothing at all is set in place to at least kind of restraint those behaviors.Thailand is actually a pretty well run country when looking at the big picture. Hospitals, electricity, schools, infrastructure, etc. are ok-ish. It seems like corrupted persons have some kind of self restraint to prevent the country from complete failure. But greed has no limits, and since there is currently no downside and no risk at all to being corrupt, I fear that it could become much worse.

Greed has no limits and corrupted persons have some kind of selfrestraint !! What is it ?

Its all about accountabillity. A thief cannot condemn another thief. Simple as that. Thais do not care to change it, so why should we. Just use it for your benefit or be principle. They do not care about your choice either. Thais have a sense of logic and righteoussnes. It is all about comminicating with them on a calmly and polite manner. With some humour you can get away with silly trafficoffenses. Thais like to laugh !!

As I said, corruption is currently very bad but what surprises me is that it's not worse considering the fact that nobody ever get caught. As Rene123 and I pointed out, it's still working ok. But people change, society changes. Tell me where is the logic and righteousness when a school director steals library money for his new car, or when an prosecutor stops a crime investigation for no reason? Don't you see how bad the country will become if more and more gvt officials are adopting the same behaviour?

[pmugghc]

Just a thought: if you're here retired or married without kids perhaps the corruption can be seen as some "smoothening oil". But if you have kids here: do you really want them to grow up in this environment? Personally I've had enough and I'm preparing to leave for my old country in northern Europe. Got a 4 and 9 year old.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[benalibina]

Just a few examples- a school director used the budget to build a library to buy himself a new BMW- killer cop slam dunk case is stopped even before it reaches the judge's office- money and connection can make the most horrible crimes disappear like the cop killed in a night club by ***- national park land parcels are being sold by high officials- minister says in the media it is normal to give cops tea money when caught by CCTV- village mayor build himself a new villa as soon as he is elected- public buses are being bought for 20 times their actual valueThe common point in all those cases is that even when the story reaches the media, nothing is being done to stop it and nobody is ever being punished.Knowing all that, I find it very surprising that there are still some national forests left in the country, that the cops don't harass any shop owner or kill anybody they dislike, or that officials don't blatantly steal even more public money. After all, nothing at all is set in place to at least kind of restraint those behaviors.Thailand is actually a pretty well run country when looking at the big picture. Hospitals, electricity, schools, infrastructure, etc. are ok-ish. It seems like corrupted persons have some kind of self restraint to prevent the country from complete failure. But greed has no limits, and since there is currently no downside and no risk at all to being corrupt, I fear that it could become much worse.

Greed has no limits and corrupted persons have some kind of selfrestraint !! What is it ?Its all about accountabillity. A thief cannot condemn another thief. Simple as that. Thais do not care to change it, so why should we. Just use it for your benefit or be principle. They do not care about your choice either. Thais have a sense of logic and righteoussnes. It is all about comminicating with them on a calmly and polite manner. With some humour you can get away with silly trafficoffenses. Thais like to laugh !!

As I said, corruption is currently very bad but what surprises me is that it's not worse considering the fact that nobody ever get caught. As Rene123 and I pointed out, it's still working ok. But people change, society changes. Tell me where is the logic and righteousness when a school director steals library money for his new car, or when an prosecutor stops a crime investigation for no reason? Don't you see how bad the country will become if more and more gvt officials are adopting the same behaviour?

Greed and loss of face, the latter to be prevented at all cost, is the common demeanour amongst thais. They all wanna rock the same boat. The succesfull greedy step off the sinking boat on time. We all know the boat is gonna sink. Its gonna happen, but not in our lifetimes. Total lack of correction and confrontation are the reasons. Its ingrained in society. Will mr/mrs righteousness step up please !

[geronimo]

Corruption is rife at every level. I grease the right palms when I have to, which is only on the road. If you run a business in Thailand, you will inevitably come across it.

[Naam]

Just a few examples

- a school director used the budget to build a library to buy himself a new BMW

- killer cop slam dunk case is stopped even before it reaches the judge's office

- money and connection can make the most horrible crimes disappear like the cop killed in a night club by ***

- national park land parcels are being sold by high officials

- minister says in the media it is normal to give cops tea money when caught by CCTV

- village mayor build himself a new villa as soon as he is elected

- public buses are being bought for 20 times their actual value

The common point in all those cases is that even when the story reaches the media, nothing is being done to stop it and nobody is ever being punished.

Knowing all that, I find it very surprising that there are still some national forests left in the country, that the cops don't harass any shop owner or kill anybody they dislike, or that officials don't blatantly steal even more public money. After all, nothing at all is set in place to at least kind of restraint those behaviors.

Thailand is actually a pretty well run country when looking at the big picture. Hospitals, electricity, schools, infrastructure, etc. are ok-ish. It seems like corrupted persons have some kind of self restraint to prevent the country from complete failure. But greed has no limits, and since there is currently no downside and no risk at all to being corrupt, I fear that it could become much worse.

some of the points you mentioned are embezzlement, theft, fraud but not corruption.

Embezzlement, theft and fraud are a direct result of corruption. In all of the point I mentionned, a corrupt government official used his power for personal gain or as a favor to some of his connection. If you don't see corruption there, I suggest you open your dictionnary and check the definition of the word.

and i suggest you open your dictionary and look up how to spell the word.

[wilcopops]

I suggest Naam that you think a little more about the range and scope of corrupt activities in Thailand rather than engaging in pettifogging quibbles over semantics....or in appropriate attempts at spelling correction.

Edited July 9, 2013 by wilcopops

[wilcopops]

I suggest Naam that you think a little more about the range and scope of corrupt activities in Thailand rather than engaging in pettifogging quibbles over semantics....or inappropriate attempts at spelling correction.

Edited July 9, 2013 by wilcopops

[CrypticBob]

I suggest Naam that you think a little more about the range and scope of corrupt activities in Thailand rather than engaging in pettifogging quibbles over semantics....or inappropriate attempts at spelling correction.

We should forgive the digressions of others before we seek pardon for our own

[Naam]

I suggest Naam that you think a little more about the range and scope of corrupt activities in Thailand rather than engaging in pettifogging quibbles over semantics....or in appropriate attempts at spelling correction.

if somebody tells me that i should open my dictionary he has to face my rebuttal. we have a proverb in Germany "as you shout you will hear the echo."

[Naam]

I suggest Naam that you think a little more about the range and scope of corrupt activities in Thailand rather than engaging in pettifogging quibbles over semantics....or inappropriate attempts at spelling correction.

i hear, read and face corrupt activities in Thailand. that does not mean i have to follow your suggestion to "think a little more about it". being a pragmatic i find it a waste of time thinking or whining in a public forum about corruption because it won't change anything.

[Gsxrnz]

Who disagrees that every 1st world country was built on a history of bribery and corruption that was probably more endemic than what we see in Thailand today?

Thailand is still several generations away from maturing into a true democracy and can be compared to the social/economic/political climate in England or the USA in the late 19th century. Bribery and corruption was the very grease that oiled the wheels of industrial and political development.

A true democracy is a Nation that has managed to convince its own people they are getting a fair deal and are free of corruption, while casually applying more Vaseline to their nether regions - i.e still equally as corrupt, just not as visible as it is in places like Thailand.

[wilcopops]

Who disagrees that every 1st world country was built on a history of bribery and corruption that was probably more endemic than what we see in Thailand today?

Thailand is still several generations away from maturing into a true democracy and can be compared to the social/economic/political climate in England or the USA in the late 19th century. Bribery and corruption was the very grease that oiled the wheels of industrial and political development.

A true democracy is a Nation that has managed to convince its own people they are getting a fair deal and are free of corruption, while casually applying more Vaseline to their nether regions - i.e still equally as corrupt, just not as visible as it is in places like Thailand.

I suggest Naam that you think a little more about the range and scope of corrupt activities in Thailand rather than engaging in pettifogging quibbles over semantics....or inappropriate attempts at spelling correction.

i hear, read and face corrupt activities in Thailand. that does not mean i have to follow your suggestion to "think a little more about it". being a pragmatic i find it a waste of time thinking or whining in a public forum about corruption because it won't change anything.

QED! - However - If you are going to make any intelligent comments then I suggest you think about it a little before you put finger to keyboard.

Another Geman quote.

"

“Only a fool learns from his own mistakes. The wise man learns from the mistakes of others.” Edited July 9, 2013 by wilcopops