How Corrupt Is Thailand, Your Perception.

[David48]

Thailand is not a lawless country but it is a law-ignored country.

Nice quote ...

[David48]

How do we fix it?

Maybe it's not 'our' problem to fix.

When the Thais have had enough of the system they operate in ... it will change.

As it changed in most of our countries as we realised that a deeply ingrained corrupt society, such as is described here is inefficient.

The change, when it happens, will come from the bottom up .... not from leadership of the top down.

The change will come, though many on us here will not be around to see it.

The hope is for our children and grandchildren.

Edited March 1, 2013 by David48

[MichelBangkok]

You guys may be missing the point. The problem in Thailand is the lack of rule by law, allowing corruption to flourish.

I'll be banned from Thaivisa if I mention my theory about why there is no rule of law here.

Yes ! There are some "things" that will end you up in prison for a very long time or in a very deep trouble if you just even mention something slightly negative about such "things". Corruption is taught to children at a very young age as the only way to achieve something here, right at kindergarten when the parents bribe their way into the best schools and then it goes up to the top with politicians and business owners playing the dance. One has to reflect that a September 2011 Abac Poll revealed that 64% of Thais see corruption as acceptable if it benefits the country or themselves while 70% of the young population share the same opinion. NOTHING will change during our lifetime, better adapt to it...

[diehard60]

I have been here for over 22 years now. Never left. Thailand is as corrupt as YOU want it to be. I have found that the Immigartion Police to be really helpfull and above board. I have never paid under the table for anything here. And have found that most people in possistions like them dont want it. They want it legally. My feelings . You dont agree - I don't care.

[wooloomooloo]

One has to reflect that a September 2011 Abac Poll revealed that 64% of Thais see corruption as acceptable if it benefits the country or themselves while 70% of the young population share the same opinion.

My feeling on the subject, as has been since I first visited LOS, and one I'd expect most Thais to share - it's not corruption, it's a cultural way of life. I'd be surprised if they knew what the word meant before falang imported it so they can now associate to the closest meaning in Thai.

I'm no expert in Thai, but would be willing to bet that the Thai transliteration of corruption doesn't really denote our understanding of the word either.

[ezzra]

In Thailand. corruption is a way of life, accepted and condoned by young and old,

rich and poor, and it has been so for a hundreds of years, and no one can, want,

or willing to change it, any comments to the contrary from the powers that be are

lips service and nothing else...

Interesting statement based on ...???

I worked, bought a house, applied for mortgage, dealed with a number of administration, normal life for a number of years. Never had to pay for under table money.

Your experience is different. Can you give us more, specific details ?

I was referring to corruptions on political and governmental levels, all involving mega projects and undertaking to appease that group or another, and the evidence are too numerous to mention,

granted, you can live a sheltered life in Thailand without needing to pay a "facilitation fee" of grease any palms, bus a recent ABAC poll has indicated that among the majority of the responded that corruptions is accepted and helpful,

[me313]

The argument of "I'd rather see honest corruption than dishonest facades" is somehow comforting, and in so many respects true, but with at least some of the "facades" of anti-corruption laws and practices there is still a chance for honest citizens to defend themselves.

[wamberal]

The argument of "I'd rather see honest corruption than dishonest facades" is somehow comforting, and in so many respects true, but with at least some of the "facades" of anti-corruption laws and practices there is still a chance for honest citizens to defend themselves.

Comforting? Corruption is the single biggest impediment to economic growth, it especially impacts on the lives of the poor. How is that "comforting"?

[StreetCowboy]

The argument of "I'd rather see honest corruption than dishonest facades" is somehow comforting, and in so many respects true, but with at least some of the "facades" of anti-corruption laws and practices there is still a chance for honest citizens to defend themselves.

Comforting? Corruption is the single biggest impediment to economic growth, it especially impacts on the lives of the poor. How is that "comforting"?

We're not poor and we get our income from offshore where our investments are protected by trust laws and ombudsmen with teeth.

Comforting, as in "isn't it nice that we don't live in that hovel"

Comforting, in that we benefit from the truest democracy, and can vote with our feet if we choose.

SC

[endure]

7) Not to post slurs or degrading comments directed towards any group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

Just to remind you - there is corruption in Thailand but implying that every Thai is corrupt will get you in trouble on Thaivisa.

[JurgenG]

In Thailand. corruption is a way of life, accepted and condoned by young and old,

rich and poor, and it has been so for a hundreds of years, and no one can, want,

or willing to change it, any comments to the contrary from the powers that be are

lips service and nothing else...

Interesting statement based on ...???

I worked, bought a house, applied for mortgage, dealed with a number of administration, normal life for a number of years. Never had to pay for under table money.

Your experience is different. Can you give us more, specific details ?

I was referring to corruptions on political and governmental levels, all involving mega projects and undertaking to appease that group or another, and the evidence are too numerous to mention,

granted, you can live a sheltered life in Thailand without needing to pay a "facilitation fee" of grease any palms, bus a recent ABAC poll has indicated that among the majority of the responded that corruptions is accepted and helpful,

I don't live a "sheltered" life, just the life of the average expat.

But again, we are comparing apples and oranges. As a private citizen, I live a corruption free life in Thailand.

But now if you want to talk about "big business", lets talk about an other place that I know well, Hong Kong. As far as the average expat is concerned, Hong Kong is one of the safest place on the planet. But Hong Kong has a HUGE organized crime problem. If you look carefully, triads are everywhere.

As a private citizen, it doesn't affect me much.

Same in Thailand.

[Kam23]

,,,the corruption issue has been talked about for years. At least we know it is going on at all levels from government to business enterprises. It is up to us to accept it but stay informed and use common sense with our financial decisions. Other countries fare even worse with bad management of taxpayers money and austerity measures that do not address the majority, the middle class

[cooked]

You guys may be missing the point. The problem in Thailand is the lack of rule by law, allowing corruption to flourish.

I'll be banned from Thaivisa if I mention my theory about why there is no rule of law here.

Patience old boy. The clock is ticking. Change will come.

yes, I'm afraid that we may be heading for interesting times.

[ozyjon]

99%

>FUBAR / SNAFU

Interesting choice of words.

Mind to develop your thinking ?

Sorry could you translate so i can understand and be part of the Forum, thank you.

[Ian Curtis]

One of my major concerns is the corruption that hurts others:

For example, people posing as school teachers because their parents have handed a large brown envelope to the head teacher. They strut around sporting epaulettes and decorations as though they are entitled to wear them and never mind the unfortunate children being taught by such unqualified people.

Another is the early release of exam papers (as read in previously published newspapers) so that Judges and Politicians and Police can allow the younger members of their family to cheat their way through at the expense of genuine students.

Acceptance of plagiarism at Universities.

I'm sure people will think of more, but it's this kind of corruption that I can't get my head round.

[stoli]

I keep reading about the corruption here, but have not been personally involved in any of it. I have been stopped a few times in my six+ months here on my motorbike, and upon showing my Thai driving license, I always received a big smile and asked to move on. Like most countries in the world, if you obey the laws, you are fine. Exceptions would be like Mexico where you stop your car at a red light, the poiliceman stoops in front of your car, removes your front license plate, then offers it back to you for $20. I just spoke with a gentleman from Chicago, and he mentioned how most of their former Congressmen and Senators are now in prison for corruption. Thailand certainly has their G&C (Graft & Corruption accounts) fully operational, but that is only half the problem. The other half is the promise for buying votes, i,e, the promise of the Rice Pledging Scheme, and the minimum wage program. These types of programs are certainly alive and vibrant in the U.S. to take care of the unions and minorities for their votes. And it is just as effective. The under the table deals, I believe some are real, and some are imagined by those that are just negative in life, and lie blame on the failure of any program for G&C. Too many times failure happens because someone was willing to take a risk, (not every program is successful even in big business). It can also happen with a bad idea from the start, or the wrong people selected to implement the program. G&C may not even be involved. I admire people that try to do right, even if their program fails, because at least they were trying to find a solution, rather than just sitting back and blaming everyone else for not doing anything. I wish all my ideas over the years had been successful, but no one is that perfect. It is not that hard to see which programs are G&C, and those that are not. I just wish TV commentators would first stop and think about which one is G&C, and not blame G&C for every failure on graft & corruption. Some people in politics, I have to believe, are trying to do the right thing. Don't condemn them, or they will stop trying.

[Commander Tamson]

What was the real cause of the current economic crisis in the West? Corruption by any other name!

As a poster above has already said - at least in Thailand it is visible, relatively simple, mainly over the counter and the wise can deal with it. [we'll certainly never change it]

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

The argument of "I'd rather see honest corruption than dishonest facades" is somehow comforting, and in so many respects true, but with at least some of the "facades" of anti-corruption laws and practices there is still a chance for honest citizens to defend themselves.

This is the core of what's wrong in Thailand. It's a facade.

It's like the balding fat loser who buys a red sports car. Superficial dummies will be mislead into believing the guy driving the car is virile. It's simply symbolic misdirection.

Many in Thailand show symbolic respect but this is to compensate for widespread greed and lack of consideration.

Fortunately there are many Thai people who are actually respectful in action which can restore a persons faith in humanity.

Unfortunately there a lot of sociopathic people hiding behind these symbolic empty gestures.

[NewlyMintedThai]

More corrupt than some, less corrupt than others.

About average among all the world's nations, I'd say.

[robblok]

If you read most of the posts, it is always the same story "I, personally, never experienced corruption BUT I heard a lot about it"

So the perception is clear. yes there is a lot of corruption. But the reality is not so obvious. Why the difference ?

You want personal experience how about this wife had to pay the police to take interest in a theft case. Else they would not work.

I was asked for money at the local government office or else it would not be possible to get papers. It should have been free.

Wife is a tourguide de bills need to always be higher as what is paid for government trips so every official can scam a bit. They love the budgets for travel usually the trip is valued double of what is paid. All feeding from the corruption money.

[midasthailand]

To be honest, I find the level of corruption in Thailand a little easier to live with than the level of corruption in Australia! At least here everybody knows it goes on and makes adjustments to allow for it. In Australia we have a rotten to the core Prime Minister who has been implicated in nefarious dealings throughout her adult life surrounded by a team of ex union leaders who are in it for everything they can get out of it.

The difference is that the people involved in daily corruption here are poorly paid police officers and the ones running the corruption in Australia are (very) overpaid politicians. Julia Gillard is better paid than Barack Obama for gods sake and still she taints everything she touches.

Give me the "honest" corruption here over the type found in Australia and a lot of other supposedly clean countries.

What a bunch of drivel. A former Prime Minister is unable to return to Thailand because of pretty serious allegations of corruption. Corruption exists at all levels of Thai society. The police are just the little foot soldiers.

Gillard lives in a country with a very strong justice system. If she has ever done anything wrong, it would have been prosecuted long ago. Her home state, Victoria, where the most pathetic allegations are sourced, is governed by the Liberal Party, the sworn enemy of both the ALP and the union movement. Do you really think that the Victorian Police, and the courts system, the Attorney General, and so on, are all standing around, with their hands in the pockets, while Gillard goes free? Not to mention that the Liberal Party was in power federally from 1996 until 2007, for most of those years Gillard was a Labor Party front-bencher.

If you do, I have a nice Harbour Bridge you might like to buy, slightly used, but very beautiful and with nice views.

As Laurie Oaks (political commentator) said after the Howard government lost power," this election was an intelligence test for the Australian people and they failed". No prizes for guessing who you vote for. All the people who could incriminate her have been given plum government positions or promoted within the labour party!

[chrisrazz]

I think you can measure how corrupt a country is by making a comparison between the desire of its citizens to secure employment in public positions and the actual wages paid for those positions. I mean to say, it is perceived by Thais that positions of public service are the better jobs, despite the poor pay. Compare this to western countries where private sector jobs are coveted and public service is viewed with something like 'couldn't you get a proper job?'

It may sound trite, yet, for many years I've believed that anyone who places themselves as a candidate for election should immediately be banned. This in particular relates to party politics. People only seek public office for reasons of self, be it enrichment, power, ego or any combination of these. This applies across the world. The only politicians that appear immune are the independents who pop up every so often, however, often with narrow agendas. The parties then try to adopt those same agendas in order to marginalise the independents.

[midasthailand]

To be honest, I find the level of corruption in Thailand a little easier to live with than the level of corruption in Australia! At least here everybody knows it goes on and makes adjustments to allow for it. In Australia we have a rotten to the core Prime Minister who has been implicated in nefarious dealings throughout her adult life surrounded by a team of ex union leaders who are in it for everything they can get out of it.

The difference is that the people involved in daily corruption here are poorly paid police officers and the ones running the corruption in Australia are (very) overpaid politicians. Julia Gillard is better paid than Barack Obama for gods sake and still she taints everything she touches.

Give me the "honest" corruption here over the type found in Australia and a lot of other supposedly clean countries.

As a victim of Aussie corruption I agree with you 100%. I fell much saver here in Thailand that I do in Australia!

Sure. And after all, that's all that matters, right? How you feel?

Who cares what it does to the country and it's people...

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

Do you just sit there waiting to pounce on any post that disagrees with your opinion? I notice that you have had 2,000 more profile views than you have made posts which indicates to me that I am not the only person you have offended on here! Opinions are like A## holes, everyone has one. If you disagree with something someone says then try and come up with something to convince them of the error of their ways rather than resorting to sarcasm and insults.

Edited March 2, 2013 by midasthailand

[midasthailand]

To be honest, I find the level of corruption in Thailand a little easier to live with than the level of corruption in Australia! At least here everybody knows it goes on and makes adjustments to allow for it. In Australia we have a rotten to the core Prime Minister who has been implicated in nefarious dealings throughout her adult life surrounded by a team of ex union leaders who are in it for everything they can get out of it.

The difference is that the people involved in daily corruption here are poorly paid police officers and the ones running the corruption in Australia are (very) overpaid politicians. Julia Gillard is better paid than Barack Obama for gods sake and still she taints everything she touches.

Give me the "honest" corruption here over the type found in Australia and a lot of other supposedly clean countries.

So you think that Mr (Rabbit,) and his cronies are clean??? you jest,,, spoken by a lib supporter.

The Question was what are your thoughts on corruption here in LOS not Australia,

At least my response addressed the OP, what are you, the self appointed question police? Do I need to pay you a fine? LMFAO

[lovelomsak]

I donot mind most of the corruption,I take it as thats the way it here and leave it at that.But yesterday I was faced with corruption and really got to me. My dollar value has dropped 10% in the last 6 months. I had $25,000 canadian in american express travellers cheques depriciating sitting in my suitcase. So I went to the local Siam Commercial Bank to cash them. I have used travellers cheques in thailand for over 20 years.So it came to me as a real shock when the women doing the exchange told me there would be a 9,6000 baht commission to be paid.I just about lost it but got myself under control. I then explained to her that I exchange travellers cheques fequently and have done for years in Thailand.They cost to me by memory is around 30 baht a cheque and 3 baht tax. I had to arque with her and the manager finally said give to him for 30 baht a cheque. I wanted so badly to report this bank branch but didnot know who to contact or where.I also mentioned that 2 days before I had cashed 2,500 in Bangkok at the 30 baht commision rate.They ask to see the paper work from the transaction.I went to this bank also because the manager is the younger sister of a chinese man I have coffee with often in the morning. REally makes me wonder about people we meet here and feel are friends.

[midasthailand]

To be honest, I find the level of corruption in Thailand a little easier to live with than the level of corruption in Australia! At least here everybody knows it goes on and makes adjustments to allow for it. In Australia we have a rotten to the core Prime Minister who has been implicated in nefarious dealings throughout her adult life surrounded by a team of ex union leaders who are in it for everything they can get out of it.

The difference is that the people involved in daily corruption here are poorly paid police officers and the ones running the corruption in Australia are (very) overpaid politicians. Julia Gillard is better paid than Barack Obama for gods sake and still she taints everything she touches.

Give me the "honest" corruption here over the type found in Australia and a lot of other supposedly clean countries.

I am not Australian, but if everything you say is true, then I agree with you

believe me mate , everything is not true , you could by his post he hated the Prime Minister of Australia.

Please Kevvy, please feel free to point out to TV members any part of my post which is untrue. Good luck with that!!

[midasthailand]

To be honest, I find the level of corruption in Thailand a little easier to live with than the level of corruption in Australia! At least here everybody knows it goes on and makes adjustments to allow for it. In Australia we have a rotten to the core Prime Minister who has been implicated in nefarious dealings throughout her adult life surrounded by a team of ex union leaders who are in it for everything they can get out of it.

The difference is that the people involved in daily corruption here are poorly paid police officers and the ones running the corruption in Australia are (very) overpaid politicians. Julia Gillard is better paid than Barack Obama for gods sake and still she taints everything she touches.

Give me the "honest" corruption here over the type found in Australia and a lot of other supposedly clean countries.

What a bunch of drivel. A former Prime Minister is unable to return to Thailand because of pretty serious allegations of corruption. Corruption exists at all levels of Thai society. The police are just the little foot soldiers.

Gillard lives in a country with a very strong justice system. If she has ever done anything wrong, it would have been prosecuted long ago. Her home state, Victoria, where the most pathetic allegations are sourced, is governed by the Liberal Party, the sworn enemy of both the ALP and the union movement. Do you really think that the Victorian Police, and the courts system, the Attorney General, and so on, are all standing around, with their hands in the pockets, while Gillard goes free? Not to mention that the Liberal Party was in power federally from 1996 until 2007, for most of those years Gillard was a Labor Party front-bencher.

If you do, I have a nice Harbour Bridge you might like to buy, slightly used, but very beautiful and with nice views.

First the thread is about Thailand not Australia.

secondly, Police is the fundamental tool for implementing the rules of Laws. Corruption of police is propagation of the cancer to the whole society.

1- Police should have a control in place: a Police of Police, only ethical, technical, independant of Politics.

2- Police should not have to deal with money. Policeman should not be authorised to have more than 100 Thais Bahts in their pockets. Fines should be paid to the Minister of Finances after control by Justice. In France, we have a system of "legal stamps"for paying our fines. Those stamps are available in the outlets selling tobaccos, the Ministry of Finances being in charge of the management.

Hey pal, practice what you preach please. This thread is about Thailand NOT France!

[Chrisswe]

I think 85% overall is the right figure !

[jamhar]

Not the worst, far from the best.

No way near the level it has to be.

My perception is that Canada/USA and the EU are the least corrupt

Probably the new African countries are the most corrupt.

In Asia, probably Japan/South Korea are the least corrupt

TL is probably in the middle of the Asian pack

Just the opinion of a newly arrived.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Not the worst, far from the best.No way near the level it has to be.My perception is that Canada/USA and the EU are the least corruptProbably the new African countries are the most corrupt.In Asia, probably Japan/South Korea are the least corruptTL is probably in the middle of the Asian packJust the opinion of a newly arrived.

Japan, Taiwan, Singapore the best in Asia.

Korea and Malaysia behind them.