How Corrupt Is Thailand, Your Perception.

[NewlyMintedThai]

To some extent, it comes with level of development. Japan, Korea, Taiwan...all corrupt to the core when they were at Thailand's level of development.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Abuse of power? For shouting at someone who was rude?

Oh the humanity...someone shouted at me!

[NewlyMintedThai]

Call the media! Call Amnesty International! The Thai cops are shouting at people!

[simple1]

Abuse of power? For shouting at someone who was rude?

Oh the humanity...someone shouted at me!

We obviously have different standards. Shouting continuously at someone for an hour, allegedly due to poor Thai language skills, taking photos etc is intimidation and harassment - abuse of power.

[NewlyMintedThai]

An hour? You really believe that? Please.

[robblok]

An hour? You really believe that? Please.

And you believe the royal Thai police is not corrupt

Just look at all the cases where they killed foreigners like the del Pinto case ect. They are certainly no angels and while i believe there are a lot of them that are quite ok by no means are they a clean police force. They are without a doubt far more corrupt then their Western counterparts.

I can still remember my ex being threatened by a cop in Samui and she was scared shitless and we hard to change where we were staying. The guy was drunk on duty and threatening her with a gun in the police station. Later other officers came to apologize to my wife but he was higher in rank so nothing could be done.

Nope and the latest escapade of them getting caught extorting money that Charlem downplayed as a gift.

[NewlyMintedThai]

An hour? You really believe that? Please.

And you believe the royal Thai police is not corrupt

Didn't say they weren't corrupt, just that the whiny poster's little anecdote didn't illustrate it.

[HeavyDrinker]

It did for me, and seemed highly plausible....

[NewlyMintedThai]

It did for me, and seemed highly plausible....

Highly plausible that someone was yelled at on the side of the road for a whole hour? My bet: one minute, tops. And you can tell from the guy's post that he was probably giving the cop attitude (in addition to speaking rudely).

Either way, not corruption. It would have been corruption if the cop had shot the guy dead right there, or planted drugs on him, or shaken him down for cash. But shouting? With all the other atrocious examples of corruption in Thailand, we're talking about shouting?

Edited March 2, 2013 by NewlyMintedThai

[robblok]

An hour? You really believe that? Please.

And you believe the royal Thai police is not corrupt

Didn't say they weren't corrupt, just that the whiny poster's little anecdote didn't illustrate it.

I can agree there, but it really does show how they are. The one that threatened my ex because she filed a police report to help my brother recover a stolen mobile was a good example. Why you help farang thai should help Thai.. drunk on duty in the police office itself.

Anyway here (out of the tourist area's) I haven't seen crazy police just yet just normal ones that seem to do a good job and i have been treated fairly.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

A post containing profanity has been removed as well as the replies.

[TommoPhysicist]

As the other posts were removed, I did this one myself.

Edited March 2, 2013 by TommoPhysicist

[slapout]

Corruption as perceived by non residents of any country, probably approaches true reality, the longer they live in that country. To clarify, I have lived/worked in India, Columbia, Peru, Mexico, several Europen countries, North America and finally Thailand.These assignments included working with/for the private sector as well as some government sectors

Granted, I have seen corruption to some degree in most of these places with the exceptions of Norway, Sweden, Germany and England. When I first came to Thailand I rationalized the corruption I experienced/observed as maybe more open but the amounts were acceptable, even less than in other places, I had been.

Now after conducting business, investing in land, house, etc and raising and educating a family in Thailand I can think of no place that I have spent time in, that has such widespread (top to bottom), blantant corruption, with so few participants being brought to justice than the LOS. The basic public services (postal, trash, electric, schools, even temples) are acknowledged as corrupt with the justification being "its not too much".Then you follow reports, plus what you experience with the police, army, civil servants at all levels, etc and if someone can find someplace that has a higher % of active participants, please enlighten me.

[simple1]

Corruption as perceived by non residents of any country, probably approaches true reality, the longer they live in that country. To clarify, I have lived/worked in India, Columbia, Peru, Mexico, several Europen countries, North America and finally Thailand.These assignments included working with/for the private sector as well as some government sectors

Granted, I have seen corruption to some degree in most of these places with the exceptions of Norway, Sweden, Germany and England. When I first came to Thailand I rationalized the corruption I experienced/observed as maybe more open but the amounts were acceptable, even less than in other places, I had been.

Now after conducting business, investing in land, house, etc and raising and educating a family in Thailand I can think of no place that I have spent time in, that has such widespread (top to bottom), blantant corruption, with so few participants being brought to justice than the LOS. The basic public services (postal, trash, electric, schools, even temples) are acknowledged as corrupt with the justification being "its not too much".Then you follow reports, plus what you experience with the police, army, civil servants at all levels, etc and if someone can find someplace that has a higher % of active participants, please enlighten me.

As previously posted by another TV member:

A few days ago the 'World Justice Project' released their quantitative index of many countries' 'Rule of Law' http://worldjusticep...le-of-law-index. This was mentioned in the Thai media, where it was presented as if Thailand was in the middle in most categories, and on par with neighbours and countries with similar income level.

One category was 'Absence of corruption'. What apperently no-one bothered to do, was look at the actual underlying data and subcategories. And for the corruption part it is very frigthening: Although the total score for Thailand for absence of corruption is a 0.41 (1 being the best), which is already rather poor, the specific subcategory '2.4 Government officials in the legislative branch do not use public office for private gain' scored a 0.06 !! http://worldjusticep...ountry/thailand. Of all the countries looked at, only Ukraine managed to score lower than Thailand.

http://www.economist.com/node/12724800

[JurgenG]

Corruption as perceived by non residents of any country, probably approaches true reality, the longer they live in that country. To clarify, I have lived/worked in India, Columbia, Peru, Mexico, several Europen countries, North America and finally Thailand.These assignments included working with/for the private sector as well as some government sectors

Granted, I have seen corruption to some degree in most of these places with the exceptions of Norway, Sweden, Germany and England. When I first came to Thailand I rationalized the corruption I experienced/observed as maybe more open but the amounts were acceptable, even less than in other places, I had been.

Now after conducting business, investing in land, house, etc and raising and educating a family in Thailand I can think of no place that I have spent time in, that has such widespread (top to bottom), blantant corruption, with so few participants being brought to justice than the LOS. The basic public services (postal, trash, electric, schools, even temples) are acknowledged as corrupt with the justification being "its not too much".Then you follow reports, plus what you experience with the police, army, civil servants at all levels, etc and if someone can find someplace that has a higher % of active participants, please enlighten me.

Interesting post.

You have experience of quite a large number of countries and obviously Thailand doesn't rank very high on your personal scale.

From my personal experience, I've been to Indonesia, Philippines, India, Brazil and a couple of European countries. If you check some official statistics, you will find that Italy is one of the worst place in Europe to get paid and that it survives only because of the size of its "grey" economy. I won't comment about America because I don't know much about it. China is also an interesting country. You can do things legally, you may have to visit a number of administration and it may be time consuming but it's not that difficult . You can also cut corners but then if you pissed off someone who is somebody, things can get ... uncomfortable, I already commented about Hong Kong's problem with organized crime.

So for me Thailand is quite a good place.

Do you mind sharing with us some of your experiences that make you have this so negative opinion about Thailand ? Because honestly, just go to Manilla, Delhi, Jakarta ..., just to name a few places, things are so much worse, I really don't understand your opinion.

[chiangmaikelly]

Corruption as perceived by non residents of any country, probably approaches true reality, the longer they live in that country. To clarify, I have lived/worked in India, Columbia, Peru, Mexico, several Europen countries, North America and finally Thailand.These assignments included working with/for the private sector as well as some government sectors

Granted, I have seen corruption to some degree in most of these places with the exceptions of Norway, Sweden, Germany and England. When I first came to Thailand I rationalized the corruption I experienced/observed as maybe more open but the amounts were acceptable, even less than in other places, I had been.

Now after conducting business, investing in land, house, etc and raising and educating a family in Thailand I can think of no place that I have spent time in, that has such widespread (top to bottom), blantant corruption, with so few participants being brought to justice than the LOS. The basic public services (postal, trash, electric, schools, even temples) are acknowledged as corrupt with the justification being "its not too much".Then you follow reports, plus what you experience with the police, army, civil servants at all levels, etc and if someone can find someplace that has a higher % of active participants, please enlighten me.

Interesting post.

You have experience of quite a large number of countries and obviously Thailand doesn't rank very high on your personal scale.

From my personal experience, I've been to Indonesia, Philippines, India, Brazil and a couple of European countries. If you check some official statistics, you will find that Italy is one of the worst place in Europe to get paid and that it survives only because of the size of its "grey" economy. I won't comment about America because I don't know much about it. China is also an interesting country. You can do things legally, you may have to visit a number of administration and it may be time consuming but it's not that difficult . You can also cut corners but then if you pissed off someone who is somebody, things can get ... uncomfortable, I already commented about Hong Kong's problem with organized crime.

So for me Thailand is quite a good place.

Do you mind sharing with us some of your experiences that make you have this so negative opinion about Thailand ? Because honestly, just go to Manilla, Delhi, Jakarta ..., just to name a few places, things are so much worse, I really don't understand your opinion.

America is corrupt or not by city. No way to say the whole country is this or that.

[StreetCowboy]

....

Interesting post.

You have experience of quite a large number of countries and obviously Thailand doesn't rank very high on your personal scale.

From my personal experience, I've been to Indonesia, Philippines, India, Brazil and a couple of European countries. If you check some official statistics, you will find that Italy is one of the worst place in Europe to get paid and that it survives only because of the size of its "grey" economy. I won't comment about America because I don't know much about it. China is also an interesting country. You can do things legally, you may have to visit a number of administration and it may be time consuming but it's not that difficult . You can also cut corners but then if you pissed off someone who is somebody, things can get ... uncomfortable, I already commented about Hong Kong's problem with organized crime.

So for me Thailand is quite a good place.

Do you mind sharing with us some of your experiences that make you have this so negative opinion about Thailand ? Because honestly, just go to Manilla, Delhi, Jakarta ..., just to name a few places, things are so much worse, I really don't understand your opinion.

In the Philippines, we were supporting an international contractor. I got talking to one of their expat engineers about the future operational arrangements, and it seemed to me that the future operating organisation had been tailored to maximise the opportunity for corruption, skimming and graft

SC

[SteeleJoe]

Do you just sit there waiting to pounce on any post that disagrees with your opinion? I notice that you have had 2,000 more profile views than you have made posts which indicates to me that I am not the only person you have offended on here! Opinions are like A## holes, everyone has one. If you disagree with something someone says then try and come up with something to convince them of the error of their ways rather than resorting to sarcasm and insults.

Err...no I don't sit here waiting for anything. When I have the time and inclination, ( the latter certainly doesn't always fools the former) I look at this site and I respond to anything that interests me sufficiently; as can be seenu people had viewed by anyone odd or foolish enough to go look, my posts will vary - as I assume most people's would - from agreement to disagreement or a different point of view or statement of fact. It's true that I am probably more inclined to respond to a comment I think is dumb or unfair or ugly, or one that I know is factually wrong, than merely replying to say, "Right" to those I agree with or know to be correct. Sorry that upsets you (and those you imagine are upset by me) but it amuses me and that's why I'm here for the most part.

It's quite petty and odd as look at someone's profile because you upset at me disagreeing disagreeing and make comments based on how many people have looked before and your assumption as to why they looked, don't you think? You may happen to be right but I know neither you nor I know that - and it makes ultimately zero difference to me; I'd prefer not to offend people given the choice and it's nice that people seem to like what I post sometimes, but approval or disapproval won't change how and when I post.

My posting history will show that by no means do I avoid arguing my position. I had already stated my position on this thread at length and more than once when I resorted to irony.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

Edited March 2, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[SteeleJoe]

I don't know what you are ranting about, 1) Corruption affects all of us in this and every other society. 2) It damages society as a whole, it keeps the poor poor while some of the wealthy get wealthier as some who were wealthy become either gradually or rapidly poor (not usually those connected to power either by association or birth). 3) The only ones not affected personally* are those who benefit the most at everybody else's expense.

Corruption is a global problem that has been around for a long time and which will continue to be around for a long time so long as people keep feeding it, I talked about an experience I had with corruption and how I dealt with it, I did not say anything about the points you raised.

That was a rant? A few calm and civil sentences? You'll have to invent a whole new word if I actually rant...

You don't know what I was saying but you managed to reply to it: Yes, corruption is a global problem. Any ignorant fool who didn't already know that would have learned from the dozen times people have brought it up in response to this question about corruption in THAILAND. No you did not say anything about the points I raised. You, as have so many others, replied to the question about how corrupt Thailand was with the assertion that you choose not to pay bribes and have no problem. Ergo...

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[wamberal]

When I first arrived in BKK to work on an Australian Government funded project in the early eighties, I was taken to get my licence at Lad Prao. When I arrived I was asked whether I wanted to do the written test, or pay an additional B500, in which case the test would not be necessary. To my shame, I paid the B500.

Corruption in the Hong Kong Police force was so endemic during the seventies that the Commissioner was charged. Promotions and other appointments were based on a price scale. The most expensive appointments were those in the vice districts, particularly the position of station sergeant, which was the most lucrative of all.

Eventually the Brits decided to set up the "Independent Commission Against Corruption", a body with sweeping powers, and gradually the problems were eliminated. Although the police force threatened to go on strike unless a general amnesty was granted, and it was (not surprisingly).

Today Hong Kong is pretty clean. It is hard to imagine a similar body ever being set up in LOS.

Edited March 3, 2013 by wamberal

[allucero]

There is much corruption in Thailand and theThai's know it but say "up to you". I got so tired of hearing that prase that wife and I had many discussions about Thailand. I am American and retired in Thailand which lasted 5 months. There is curruption in America but you have options of protection for government agencies. The cost of Thailand and America are not far apart. You pay for what you get!! I also notice in Thailand that the many people from other countries live there because of the sex and whatever your preference may be. In the statess this is a crime. Good Luck to all in Thailand.Oh! I do return once a your to visit my wives family......

[HeavyDrinker]

Life here is really easy.

Obey the laws of the land and you've really got no worries.

Break them and a few quid sees you right. OK, so every now and again you have to put up with a few stuffed shirts but does it really affect you?

I doubt it.

They don't even know or care that we (Westerners) exist. Suits me fine....

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

http://www.transparency.org/country#THA

Thailand is mid pack. Slightly more countries with less corruption. 47% percentile.

Nothing to brag about but not horrible like some of its neighbors Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia or Vietnam.

I guess you could say its low corruption for its neighborhood

[monty1412]

Rather than asking about " How corrupt if Thailand" could we not ask the question or at least ask for opinion on "Lack of corruption in Thailand"

It would make the thread allot shorter and less onerous to wade through.. even better name any government official who is not corrupt.. this should see the tread stopped dead in its tracks

[chiangmaikelly]

There is much corruption in Thailand and theThai's know it but say "up to you". I got so tired of hearing that prase that wife and I had many discussions about Thailand. I am American and retired in Thailand which lasted 5 months. There is curruption in America but you have options of protection for government agencies. The cost of Thailand and America are not far apart. You pay for what you get!! I also notice in Thailand that the many people from other countries live there because of the sex and whatever your preference may be. In the statess this is a crime. Good Luck to all in Thailand.Oh! I do return once a your to visit my wives family......

Due diligence. 1 year in Bangkok, 3 in Chiang Mai, 3 in Pattaya and along the way a number of women. I don't smoke or drink and it costs me half as much as the States to live here and considering I lived in Chicago the corruption is less in Thailand. But there is no such thing as a free lunch. If you want to have a happy life in Thailand one must do a number of things that the man on a 5 month vacation is not going to have time to do.

[nidieunimaitre]

There is much corruption in Thailand and theThai's know it but say "up to you". I got so tired of hearing that prase that wife and I had many discussions about Thailand. I am American and retired in Thailand which lasted 5 months. There is curruption in America but you have options of protection for government agencies. The cost of Thailand and America are not far apart. You pay for what you get!! I also notice in Thailand that the many people from other countries live there because of the sex and whatever your preference may be. In the statess this is a crime. Good Luck to all in Thailand.Oh! I do return once a your to visit my wives family......

Due diligence. 1 year in Bangkok, 3 in Chiang Mai, 3 in Pattaya and along the way a number of women. I don't smoke or drink and it costs me half as much as the States to live here and considering I lived in Chicago the corruption is less in Thailand. But there is no such thing as a free lunch. If you want to have a happy life in Thailand one must do a number of things that the man on a 5 month vacation is not going to have time to do.

It is widely believed that the expression "there is no such thing as a free lunch" originated in Chicago.

But please do explain what you mean with "If you want to etc..."

[NewlyMintedThai]

Many of the typical posters here would flee Thailand like rats from a sinking ship if corruption were stamped out here.

No go-go bars, massage parlors fronting for prostitution, prescription meds over the counter, knock-off movies on every street corner, widespread disregard for work permit laws and the laws forbidding nominee ownership of companies for the purpose of foreigners owning land...all the little niceties that many people don't stop to think about before they go on a corruption whinge because they maybe had to give a traffic cop a red note.

[transam]

[WilliamCave]

To be honest, I find the level of corruption in Thailand a little easier to live with than the level of corruption in Australia! At least here everybody knows it goes on and makes adjustments to allow for it. In Australia we have a rotten to the core Prime Minister who has been implicated in nefarious dealings throughout her adult life surrounded by a team of ex union leaders who are in it for everything they can get out of it.

The difference is that the people involved in daily corruption here are poorly paid police officers and the ones running the corruption in Australia are (very) overpaid politicians. Julia Gillard is better paid than Barack Obama for gods sake and still she taints everything she touches.

Give me the "honest" corruption here over the type found in Australia and a lot of other supposedly clean countries.

I couldn't have said it better the same is for Canada I see it every time I come back here. Thanks

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Many of the typical posters here would flee Thailand like rats from a sinking ship if corruption were stamped out here.

No go-go bars, massage parlors fronting for prostitution, prescription meds over the counter, knock-off movies on every street corner, widespread disregard for work permit laws and the laws forbidding nominee ownership of companies for the purpose of foreigners owning land...all the little niceties that many people don't stop to think about before they go on a corruption whinge because they maybe had to give a traffic cop a red note.

sure but your making a wildly large assumption of the laws being the same if all the laws were enforced for all.

A lot of the corruption of a system is passing demanding laws which are then arbitrarily enforced by the police.

China for example has strong anti pollution laws but these laws are selectively enforced to prevent foreign competition. For connected Chinese firms these regulations mean next to nothing.

For example In Thailand prostitution is technically illegal but its basically just enforced against foreigners and non connected entities.

If the country and leaders wanted prostitution wouldn't the laws be changed to reflect a rule of law system?