Citizenship Rights Of Expat/thai Children

[Dali1]

I'm a Canadian with a pregnant Thai girlfriend. How do I ensure the
child is recognized as my child and what right to Canadian citizenship
does that give him or her?

Many thanks for the advice.

Edited March 1, 2013 by Dali1

[Mario2008]

Your child will be Thai because of the mother. As not married, you will have no rights unless you legitimize the child. You do that by marrying the mother or by petitioning the court to be recognised as the legal father.

Can't comment on Canadian law, but Thailand doesn't have a problem with dual nationality.

[TommoPhysicist]

Marry the girl.

[beano2274]

Check out

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/index.asp

and this one as well

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/minors.asp

[sunspun]

http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/thailand-thailande/consular_services_consulaires/citizenship-citoyennete.aspx?lang=eng&view=d

this applies if you are married. i'm not sure the situation if you are not. my child was born in Canada (his dad is thai) and if we were not married he wouldn't be able to claim thai citizenship. perhaps the same sort of thing applies in your situation?

[PoorSucker]

http://www.canadainternational.gc.ca/thailand-thailande/consular_services_consulaires/citizenship-citoyennete.aspx?lang=eng&view=d

this applies if you are married. i'm not sure the situation if you are not. my child was born in Canada (his dad is thai) and if we were not married he wouldn't be able to claim thai citizenship. perhaps the same sort of thing applies in your situation?

If the mother is Thai, the child will be Thai.

[Maestro]

From the Nationality Act B.E. 2508 (1965) with amendments until B.E. 2551 (2008) - English translation:

Section 7⁴. The following persons acquire Thai nationality by birth:

(1) A person born of a father or a mother of Thai nationality, whether within or outside the Thai Kingdom;

...

“Father” in (1) means a person having been proved, in conformity with the Ministerial Regulation, that he

is truly the father of the person even though he did not register marriage with the mother of the person or

did not complete registration of legitimate child⁵.

⁴ Replaced by Nationality Act No. 2 B.E. 2535 (1992)

⁵ Added by Nationality Act No. 4 B.E. 2551 (2008)

However, this does not answer your question. You are the Canadian father of the child and want to know about ensuring the child's right to Canadian citizenship. I don't have the answer and if it is not in one of the links that have been posted perhaps another member will be able to give the information.

[Maestro]

The answer is in this link that you were given: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/become.asp

1. Click on "see if you may already be a citizen". A new page opens.
2. Click on "Am I a Canadian Citizen?". A new page opens.
3. Answer the questions as they apply to your child, ie not to yourself. As you will see, no distinction is made whether the father was married to the mother or not.

[Maestro]

Then, of course, there is also the Canadian Citizenship Act

[phuketrichard]

as an american when my daughter was born and i was not married to my now ex wife,I filed a "consolur report of birth abroad". This than gave her US citizenship. Am sure Canada has something similar

I applied in front of the consolur an had to have 2 people swear that it was my child.

A quick call to the embassy i am sure can answer ur questions better than here.

[Mario2008]

Your child will be Thai because of the mother. As not married, you will have no rights unless you legitimize the child. You do that by marrying the mother or by petitioning the court to be recognised as the legal father.

Can't comment on Canadian law, but Thailand doesn't have a problem with dual nationality.

Very correct.

If born in Thailand (and not abroad!) the Baby is Thai.

You then hire a lawyer (in my case 6.000 and go to court. If you dress well and answer smart they will acknowledge that you are the father although it is against the law. Must wait for Baby to be 6 or 7 to answer straight to the judge.

Mind, it is serious! You get sworn in, the lawyer wears black and there will be a translator since no English is accepted in a Thai Court. Makes sense.

After this you spend 12 to 14.000 Baht to translate all docs and go to your embassy to issue

1. Passport

2. Birth certificate

Easy, think of 6 month...

In my case my daughter has Thai nationality with my girlfriends name

and has German nationality with my last name.

Perfect.

Rules in Canada might be different. But, on general, they can not refuse Thai nationality because obviously the mother is Thai.

Once done with the court they can not refuse Canadian citizenship because of the father.

However, if Baby is born abroad some silly laws about dual citizenship might apply, beware.

No, the Thai nationality act is very clear. When one of the parent is Thai the child is Thai, regardles of whether the child is born in Thailand or abroad.

If you go to court to become the legal father, a child doesn't need to be heard or give permisison. Only when you go to the amphur does the child need to give permission.

[dighambara]

Your child will be Thai because of the mother. As not married, you will have no rights unless you legitimize the child. You do that by marrying the mother or by petitioning the court to be recognised as the legal father.

Can't comment on Canadian law, but Thailand doesn't have a problem with dual nationality.

Very correct.

If born in Thailand (and not abroad!) the Baby is Thai.

You then hire a lawyer (in my case 6.000 and go to court. If you dress well and answer smart they will acknowledge that you are the father although it is against the law. Must wait for Baby to be 6 or 7 to answer straight to the judge.

Mind, it is serious! You get sworn in, the lawyer wears black and there will be a translator since no English is accepted in a Thai Court. Makes sense.

After this you spend 12 to 14.000 Baht to translate all docs and go to your embassy to issue

1. Passport

2. Birth certificate

Easy, think of 6 month...

In my case my daughter has Thai nationality with my girlfriends name

and has German nationality with my last name.

Perfect.

Rules in Canada might be different. But, on general, they can not refuse Thai nationality because obviously the mother is Thai.

Once done with the court they can not refuse Canadian citizenship because of the father.

However, if Baby is born abroad some silly laws about dual citizenship might apply, beware.

As in the case of the American Father and Thai Mother, ensure the birth certificate lists you as the Father and take the documents to the Embassy for 'birth abroad' documents and a passport.

Dual citizenship is a reality, regardless whether countries choose to recognize it.

Likewise, multiple passports are perfectly legal, IF all the information clearly pertains to the same person - i.e. John Doe born on December 5th 2002. Divorced women should carry copies of divorcepapers, or ensure all passports have the same name.

[Autumng70]

Hi, I am from the UK I have a child born to a Thai. We are not married and she lives in Thailand but has been to the UK several times with our daughter. Our daughter was born on Thailand, but I registered her with my name; she now had dual nationally and both Thai & UK passport which was relatively easy to get. Hope this helps

[Maestro]

I don't think it helps much, since every country has its own nationality law and what applies in the UK will unlikely apply in Canada.

[I Like Thai]

Your child will be Thai because of the mother. As not married, you will have no rights unless you legitimize the child. You do that by marrying the mother or by petitioning the court to be recognised as the legal father.

Can't comment on Canadian law, but Thailand doesn't have a problem with dual nationality.

Very correct.

If born in Thailand (and not abroad!) the Baby is Thai.

You then hire a lawyer (in my case 6.000 and go to court. If you dress well and answer smart they will acknowledge that you are the father although it is against the law. Must wait for Baby to be 6 or 7 to answer straight to the judge.

Mind, it is serious! You get sworn in, the lawyer wears black and there will be a translator since no English is accepted in a Thai Court. Makes sense.

After this you spend 12 to 14.000 Baht to translate all docs and go to your embassy to issue

1. Passport

2. Birth certificate

Easy, think of 6 month...

In my case my daughter has Thai nationality with my girlfriends name

and has German nationality with my last name.

Perfect.

Rules in Canada might be different. But, on general, they can not refuse Thai nationality because obviously the mother is Thai.

Once done with the court they can not refuse Canadian citizenship because of the father.

However, if Baby is born abroad some silly laws about dual citizenship might apply, beware.

I can see this causing major problems when booking return flight tickets

[sunspun]

No, the Thai nationality act is very clear. When one of the parent is Thai the child is Thai, regardles of whether the child is born in Thailand or abroad.

According to this if the parents aren't married and the mother is farang, the child is not thai.

http://www.thaicongenvancouver.org/cms/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=111

I would think a child born abroad to a Canadian would be entitled to citizenship, but the above makes me wonder. Call the embassy they will give a much clearer answer than here

Also, fyi, dual Canadian/Thai citizenship is perfectly acceptable

[Mario2008]

No, the Thai nationality act is very clear. When one of the parent is Thai the child is Thai, regardles of whether the child is born in Thailand or abroad.

According to this if the parents aren't married and the mother is farang, the child is not thai.

http://www.thaicongenvancouver.org/cms/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=111

I would think a child born abroad to a Canadian would be entitled to citizenship, but the above makes me wonder. Call the embassy they will give a much clearer answer than here

Also, fyi, dual Canadian/Thai citizenship is perfectly acceptable

When not married, the child only has a legal mother but not a legal father. Because when married the law automatically assumes the husband is the father of the child. But when not married, the law can't make an assumption who the father is. As a result, the father must recognise the child as being his (or a paternity suit must be brought against the father). When that is done, the father of the child is established and with that also the nationalities of the child.

[lopburi3]

And I will trump you with below saying child is Thai from Embassy in Canberra.

http://canberra.thaiembassy.org/doc/info/info_migration.pdf

[Maestro]

No, the Thai nationality act is very clear. When one of the parent is Thai the child is Thai, regardles of whether the child is born in Thailand or abroad.

According to this if the parents aren't married and the mother is farang, the child is not thai.

http://www.thaicongenvancouver.org/cms/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=111

I would think a child born abroad to a Canadian would be entitled to citizenship, but the above makes me wonder. Call the embassy they will give a much clearer answer than here

Also, fyi, dual Canadian/Thai citizenship is perfectly acceptable

1. The OP does not need to call the Thai embassy because his inquiry is about the Canadian citizenship of his child, not the Thai citizenship.
2. The information on the web page of the Thai consulate in Vancouver to which you have given a link is outdated. Thailand's Nationality Act B.E. 2535, to which reference is made on that page, has been amended four times and the information on that page does not reflect all changes. The updated version of the English translation is here: Nationality Act B.E. 2508 (1965) with amendments until B.E. 2551 (2008) - English translation. Section 7, as amended in February 2008, is about children with a foreign parent of either gender:

Section 7. The following persons acquire Thai nationality by birth:

(1) A person born of a father or a mother of Thai nationality, whether within or outside the Thai Kingdom;

[inthepink]

No, the Thai nationality act is very clear. When one of the parent is Thai the child is Thai, regardles of whether the child is born in Thailand or abroad.

According to this if the parents aren't married and the mother is farang, the child is not thai.

http://www.thaicongenvancouver.org/cms/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=111

I would think a child born abroad to a Canadian would be entitled to citizenship, but the above makes me wonder. Call the embassy they will give a much clearer answer than here

Also, fyi, dual Canadian/Thai citizenship is perfectly acceptable

When not married, the child only has a legal mother but not a legal father. Because when married the law automatically assumes the husband is the father of the child. But when not married, the law can't make an assumption who the father is. As a result, the father must recognise the child as being his (or a paternity suit must be brought against the father). When that is done, the father of the child is established and with that also the nationalities of the child.

You are confusing Thai law with the laws in other countries. For example, I was not married to my partner when she gave birth to our daughter but the British government had no problem in recognising her as my daughter and providing her with a passport on the basis of her British citizenship. What the Thai government thinks of my legitimacy as a father is irrelevant in this respect. I know the OP is Canadian but to say that you need to have the child legally recognised as yours in Thailand before you can establish dual nationality is nonsense.

Edited March 4, 2013 by inthepink

[Mario2008]

No, the Thai nationality act is very clear. When one of the parent is Thai the child is Thai, regardles of whether the child is born in Thailand or abroad.

According to this if the parents aren't married and the mother is farang, the child is not thai.

http://www.thaicongenvancouver.org/cms/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=111

I would think a child born abroad to a Canadian would be entitled to citizenship, but the above makes me wonder. Call the embassy they will give a much clearer answer than here

Also, fyi, dual Canadian/Thai citizenship is perfectly acceptable

When not married, the child only has a legal mother but not a legal father. Because when married the law automatically assumes the husband is the father of the child. But when not married, the law can't make an assumption who the father is. As a result, the father must recognise the child as being his (or a paternity suit must be brought against the father). When that is done, the father of the child is established and with that also the nationalities of the child.

You are confusing Thai law with the laws in other countries. For example, I was not married to my partner when she gave birth to our daughter but the British government had no problem in recognising her as my daughter and providing her with a passport on the basis of her British citizenship. What the Thai government thinks of my legitimacy as a father is irrelevant in this respect. I know the OP is Canadian but to say that you need to have the child legally recognised as yours in Thailand before you can establish dual nationality is nonsense.

Now you are stating something I didn't say. I didn't write that it should be according to Thai law. My comment is in general, and goes for almost any country. When not married, the father must legitimize the child. They way in which to do this and the requirements differ per country. Normally it is done according to the law where the child is born in.

Thai law determines if someone is a Thai citizen, UK law determines if someone is a UK-national, etc.

[inthepink]

"When not married the father must legitimize the child" goes for almost any country? Are you sure about that? It does not apply to the United Kingdom, I can tell you that for a fact, so I would be hesitant to believe that it applies to almost any country without hard evidence to support that claim.

I'm not trying to start a pissing contest, but I would hate anybody to waste time and money having their child's birth registered at a consulate / engaging the services of a Thai lawyer etcetera in the possibly mistaken belief that it is all necessary in order for them to obtain a passport for the child in question.

Of course, if a Canadian person who has actually done what the OP wishes to do could comment, that would be far more enlightening than our opinions.

Edited March 5, 2013 by inthepink

[lopburi3]

It did apply to the UK until 7 years ago according to Wiki - and the UK is surly not a good example as there laws and catagory of citizenship are far more complex than most.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_nationality_law

As a general rule, an unmarried father cannot pass on British citizenship automatically in the case of children born before 1 July 2006. However, if the parents marry subsequent to the birth, the child normally becomes a British citizen at that point if legitimated by the marriage and the father was eligible to pass on British citizenship. Further, if the unmarried British father was domiciled in a country that treated (at the date of birth of the child born before 1 July 2006) a child born to unmarried parents in the same way as a child born to married parents, then the father passed on British citizenship automatically to his child, even though the child was born before 1 July 2006 to unmarried parents.

[inthepink]

It did apply to the UK until 7 years ago according to Wiki - and the UK is surly not a good example as there laws and catagory of citizenship are far more complex than most.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_nationality_law

As a general rule, an unmarried father cannot pass on British citizenship automatically in the case of children born before 1 July 2006. However, if the parents marry subsequent to the birth, the child normally becomes a British citizen at that point if legitimated by the marriage and the father was eligible to pass on British citizenship. Further, if the unmarried British father was domiciled in a country that treated (at the date of birth of the child born before 1 July 2006) a child born to unmarried parents in the same way as a child born to married parents, then the father passed on British citizenship automatically to his child, even though the child was born before 1 July 2006 to unmarried parents.

I used the UK as an example because that's where I am from, as are a fair number of expats living in Thailand. Excuse my being a little facetious but If the laws governing Canadian citizenship are far simpler, the OP should be able to answer his own question.

Edited March 5, 2013 by inthepink