Round One To Central In Riots: Arson Attack 2010

[webfact]

Round one to Central in riots
Achara Deboonme
The Nation



BANGKOK: -- The Central Group has won the preliminary court's support for its damages claim against Deves Insurance, heightening the chance that it would win Bt3.8 billion compensation for the arson attack on CentralWorld during the political unrest in 2010.

The lawsuit was filed on December 16, 2011 by four plaintiffs - Thai Business Fund 4, Central Pattana, CentralWorld Co Ltd and Central Department Store Co Ltd.

Central Pattana (CPN) yesterday disclosed the Civil Court had ruled that Deves Insurance must pay the compensation plus interest of 7.5 per cent per annum from March 31, 2011. Deves Insurance was also asked to pay legal expenses of Bt60,000 to the group.

Of the total claim, the plaintiffs demanded Bt2.7 billion for property damage and another Bt990 million for loss of income as CentralWorld was closed from May 19 to September 28, 2010, while Zen Department Store was just reopened in January this year. Deves Insurance is entitled to appeal the judgement within 30 days and such period may be extended on the court's discretion.

"We're happy with the ruling but the battle will take a long time until the case is finally through," said a source from Central Pattana, who asked not to be named. "It will take a long time."

The Civil Court yesterday ruled that the fire was not an act of terrorism or other causes, exempted by the all-risk insurance policy.

Central Group and its insurer have so far differed on the cause of the fire. Following the fires set at the end of an anti-government rally in May 2010, many businesses in the Ratchaprasong and nearby areas were affected. According to the Office of Insurance Commission, 30 companies in the affected areas have insurance policies for a combined coverage of Bt137 billion, but only 1 per cent of the cover is for riot damage. The Office also said that of all affected businesses, only Central Pattana had bought a business-interruption insurance policy. The group's all-risk insurance policy's total coverage is Bt13.2 billion.

The affected businesses have so far fought for compensation, as insurance companies have insisted that fire caused by riots was not covered by the insurance policies. The Abhisit Vejjajiva government had then described militant demonstrators as terrorists and attributed the fires to an act of terrorism.

Central Group said in the lawsuit that the all-risk insurance policy does not cover damage caused directly or indirectly by riots, but it covers damage from fire - even though it was directly or indirectly caused by an act of terrorism.

It believes that the damage should be covered by it's all-risk policy, while Deves Insurance has argued that it should be claimed under CPN's Terrorism Insurance policy, which was provided by other insurers.

Deves Insurance said in a statement that it is ready to shoulder the payment, when the case is finally through. It is confident such payment would not affect the company financially, given the involvement of many reinsurers.


-- The Nation 2013-03-02

[ratcatcher]

"It believes that the damage should be covered by it's all-risk policy, while Deves Insurance has argued that it should be claimed under CPN's Terrorism Insurance policy, which was provided by other insurers."

Surely nobody in their right mind could accuse the occupants of Ratchaprasong and the Red camp in 2010 as being terrorists? Surely not?

[Thai at Heart]

This probably gets even more complicated if someone is convicted of terrorism.

Central Group said in the lawsuit that the all-risk insurance policy does not cover damage caused directly or indirectly by riots, but it covers damage from fire - even though it was directly or indirectly caused by an act of terrorism

I think the lawyers will be having a hard time with this one. It want a fire caused by riot. It was a fire that sprung up, incidentally caused by terrorism.

[harrry]

Let's try to understand this. A policy excludes damages from matches and petrol. The part of the building that was wet with petrol is excluded...the rest that burns started from the wet part gets paid for.

Sounds right doesn't it.

Edited March 2, 2013 by harrry

[Thai at Heart]

Let's try to understand this. A policy excludes damages from matches and petrol. The part of the building that was wet with petrol is excluded...the rest that burns started from the wet part gets paid for.

Sounds right doesn't it.

The wrongdoers had on rioters tshirts, then changed into terrorist tshirts, which was when the government spotted them. Then they put on arsonist tshirts to make the fire, and left.

Carefully remembering not to put on their rioters or terrorist t shirts.

[OzMick]

This probably gets even more complicated if someone is convicted of terrorism.

Central Group said in the lawsuit that the all-risk insurance policy does not cover damage caused directly or indirectly by riots, but it covers damage from fire - even though it was directly or indirectly caused by an act of terrorism

I think the lawyers will be having a hard time with this one. It want a fire caused by riot. It was a fire that sprung up, incidentally caused by terrorism.

Nobody is going to be convicted of terrorism while PTP is in power, because according to PTP there are no terrorists in Thailand. If muslim separatists and Iranian bomb-chuckers aren't terrorists, there is no way possible for Thaksin's own bought and paid-for insurrectionists will wear that label.

[Thai at Heart]

This probably gets even more complicated if someone is convicted of terrorism.

Central Group said in the lawsuit that the all-risk insurance policy does not cover damage caused directly or indirectly by riots, but it covers damage from fire - even though it was directly or indirectly caused by an act of terrorism

I think the lawyers will be having a hard time with this one. It want a fire caused by riot. It was a fire that sprung up, incidentally caused by terrorism.

Nobody is going to be convicted of terrorism while PTP is in power, because according to PTP there are no terrorists in Thailand. If muslim separatists and Iranian bomb-chuckers aren't terrorists, there is no way possible for Thaksin's own bought and paid-for insurrectionists will wear that label.

But any lawyer for the insurers will claim there are dozens of people currently on terrorism charges.

Either way, one big pooyai company is going to make or lose a lot of money. The deves reinsurer probably isn't going to pay.

[OzMick]

This probably gets even more complicated if someone is convicted of terrorism.

Central Group said in the lawsuit that the all-risk insurance policy does not cover damage caused directly or indirectly by riots, but it covers damage from fire - even though it was directly or indirectly caused by an act of terrorism

I think the lawyers will be having a hard time with this one. It want a fire caused by riot. It was a fire that sprung up, incidentally caused by terrorism.

Nobody is going to be convicted of terrorism while PTP is in power, because according to PTP there are no terrorists in Thailand. If muslim separatists and Iranian bomb-chuckers aren't terrorists, there is no way possible for Thaksin's own bought and paid-for insurrectionists will wear that label.

But any lawyer for the insurers will claim there are dozens of people currently on terrorism charges.

Either way, one big pooyai company is going to make or lose a lot of money. The deves reinsurer probably isn't going to pay.

And quite a few are PTP MPs, who are innocent until proven guilty. That may happen, but it won't be any time soon.

[jonclark]

Interesting to see if Deves tries to recoup 'damages'; For example by filing civil charges against the leaders of the red shirts. It's just highly unlikely that if the insurer loses such a large claim, the board / shareholders will take is square on the chin, more than likely they would be looking for someone to blame and want a cash settlement.

I doubt even the reinsurers would want to pay out 3+ billion baht unless all avenues have been explored.

Edited March 2, 2013 by jonclark

[hellodolly]

Interesting to see if Deves tries to recoup 'damages'; For example by filing civil charges against the leaders of the red shirts. It's just highly unlikely that if the insurer loses such a large claim, the board / shareholders will take is square on the chin, more than likely they would be looking for someone to blame and want a cash settlement.

I doubt even the reinsurers would want to pay out 3+ billion baht unless all avenues have been explored.

I pretty much agree with you. One way or another the insurers will pay and they will be filing charges against the leaders in the insurrection.

At one point there was a commission set up to trace the money behind the red shirt actions. Little has been heard from them sense. I would imagine there findings will be a big part of the civil law suit when it comes to that stage.

[Pimay1]

Interesting to see if Deves tries to recoup 'damages'; For example by filing civil charges against the leaders of the red shirts. It's just highly unlikely that if the insurer loses such a large claim, the board / shareholders will take is square on the chin, more than likely they would be looking for someone to blame and want a cash settlement.

I doubt even the reinsurers would want to pay out 3+ billion baht unless all avenues have been explored.

I pretty much agree with you. One way or another the insurers will pay and they will be filing charges against the leaders in the insurrection.

At one point there was a commission set up to trace the money behind the red shirt actions. Little has been heard from them sense. I would imagine there findings will be a big part of the civil law suit when it comes to that stage.

With the current government in power if it came to publishing where the money came from for the red shirts I expect the dog would have eaten the homework.

[mrtoad]

Those grubby Red Shirt leaders should be responsible for this, as they were the ones that incited the riot. Of course with PTP in power, they are at present well protected.

[Orac]

Interesting to see if Deves tries to recoup 'damages'; For example by filing civil charges against the leaders of the red shirts. It's just highly unlikely that if the insurer loses such a large claim, the board / shareholders will take is square on the chin, more than likely they would be looking for someone to blame and want a cash settlement.

I doubt even the reinsurers would want to pay out 3+ billion baht unless all avenues have been explored.

Would be interesting if Deves files against the red shirt leaders given who it is owned by.

[Thai at Heart]

Interesting to see if Deves tries to recoup 'damages'; For example by filing civil charges against the leaders of the red shirts. It's just highly unlikely that if the insurer loses such a large claim, the board / shareholders will take is square on the chin, more than likely they would be looking for someone to blame and want a cash settlement.

I doubt even the reinsurers would want to pay out 3+ billion baht unless all avenues have been explored.

Would be interesting if Deves files against the red shirt leaders given who it is owned by.

Bingo

[Pimay1]

Interesting to see if Deves tries to recoup 'damages'; For example by filing civil charges against the leaders of the red shirts. It's just highly unlikely that if the insurer loses such a large claim, the board / shareholders will take is square on the chin, more than likely they would be looking for someone to blame and want a cash settlement.

I doubt even the reinsurers would want to pay out 3+ billion baht unless all avenues have been explored.

Would be interesting if Deves files against the red shirt leaders given who it is owned by.

Please excuse my ignorance but who is it owned by?

[otherstuff1957]

Actually, it is much more likely that the insurance company would sue BMA/the Government/Aphisit for failure to protect them against the rioters. The first rule of lawsuits is to go for the money, not the obvious guilt.

The Redshirt leaders are all millionaires, but their assets are probably spread out among their relatives for safety and deniability. It would be much easier to collect from the city & national government.

[Orac]

Interesting to see if Deves tries to recoup 'damages'; For example by filing civil charges against the leaders of the red shirts. It's just highly unlikely that if the insurer loses such a large claim, the board / shareholders will take is square on the chin, more than likely they would be looking for someone to blame and want a cash settlement.

I doubt even the reinsurers would want to pay out 3+ billion baht unless all avenues have been explored.

Would be interesting if Deves files against the red shirt leaders given who it is owned by.

Please excuse my ignorance but who is it owned by?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deves_Insurance

Edited March 2, 2013 by Orac

[Thai at Heart]

Actually, it is much more likely that the insurance company would sue BMA/the Government/Aphisit for failure to protect them against the rioters. The first rule of lawsuits is to go for the money, not the obvious guilt.

The Redshirt leaders are all millionaires, but their assets are probably spread out among their relatives for safety and deniability. It would be much easier to collect from the city & national government.

Exactly, you load billions onto individuals who won't pay. Doesn't the ISA remove responsibility for damages from the government though?

Problem is they are accused with terrorism, and that word negates the insurance.

[Locationthailand]

Just add another summons to the list in Dubai.

[hellodolly]

Interesting to see if Deves tries to recoup 'damages'; For example by filing civil charges against the leaders of the red shirts. It's just highly unlikely that if the insurer loses such a large claim, the board / shareholders will take is square on the chin, more than likely they would be looking for someone to blame and want a cash settlement.

I doubt even the reinsurers would want to pay out 3+ billion baht unless all avenues have been explored.

Would be interesting if Deves files against the red shirt leaders given who it is owned by.

Please excuse my ignorance but who is it owned by?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deves_Insurance

A single name will suffice.

Not some web site that requires investigating.

Any particular reason for your reluctance to divulge the name.

I am sure it would have been easier to do than look for a web site.

Or did you do as I did look at it see nothing other than it was a Thai company and not follow up on the various leads it had.

[bigbamboo]

I wonder how many Thais know who owns the insurance company who will have to foot the bill for the terrifying arson attack on Central World by the supporters of the BB?

[khunken]

I wonder how many Thais know who owns the insurance company who will have to foot the bill for the terrifying arson attack on Central World by the supporters of the BB?

Not many I'd say. But, according to the Op, Deves has said there are many reinsurers, so it's not clear who will ultimately bear the cost, providing Central win their case.

The real responsibility lies with a Dubai resident but it would take a proper investigation to follow the money trail.

[Pimay1]

I wonder how many Thais know who owns the insurance company who will have to foot the bill for the terrifying arson attack on Central World by the supporters of the BB?

Not many I'd say. But, according to the Op, Deves has said there are many reinsurers, so it's not clear who will ultimately bear the cost, providing Central win their case.

The real responsibility lies with a Dubai resident but it would take a proper investigation to follow the money trail.

With little sister as the real PM this is a pipe dream.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Company Overview of Deves Insurance Public Co. Ltd.

The company was founded in 1947 and is headquartered in Bangkok,

Thailand. The Deves Insurance Public Company Limited is a subsidiary of

Crown Property Bureau. As of March 29, 2006, Deves Insurance Public Co.

Ltd. operates as a subsidiary of The Crown Property Bureau.

http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=4481232

[naboo]

hellodolly, on 02 Mar 2013 - 15:27, said:

A single name will suffice.

Not some web site that requires investigating.

Any particular reason for your reluctance to divulge the name.

I am sure it would have been easier to do than look for a web site.

Or did you do as I did look at it see nothing other than it was a Thai company and not follow up on the various leads it had.

The owner is the state, managed by the Crown Property Bureau, part of the monarch's estate?? Someone owns it, not sure.

As said above, would be very interesting to see Deve's go after the red shirt leaders.

Edited March 3, 2013 by naboo

[hyperdimension]

Please excuse my ignorance but who is it owned by?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deves_Insurance

A single name will suffice.

Not some web site that requires investigating.

Any particular reason for your reluctance to divulge the name.

I am sure it would have been easier to do than look for a web site.

Or did you do as I did look at it see nothing other than it was a Thai company and not follow up on the various leads it had.

Some people are scared to talk about the monarchy due to strict Lese Majeste laws.

From Deves Insurance ANNUAL REPORT YEAR 2011, here are the owners:

Name of Shareholders % of Shareholdings

1 The Crown Property Bureau 98.23

2 Other Shareholders 1.77

It would be interesting to know whether the planners and inciters of the arson on Central World had already known beforehand who the owner of the insurer was.

Edited March 3, 2013 by hyperdimension

[kimamey]

Actually, it is much more likely that the insurance company would sue BMA/the Government/Aphisit for failure to protect them against the rioters. The first rule of lawsuits is to go for the money, not the obvious guilt.

The Redshirt leaders are all millionaires, but their assets are probably spread out among their relatives for safety and deniability. It would be much easier to collect from the city & national government.

I would doubt if they could get money from Abhisit as at the time he was PM and therefore a member of the Thai government. They could try to collect from the government but that would mean proving the government was negligent in it's attempts to protect property from damage. Even if it was accepted that the Abhisit government was responsible for the deaths at the time (which is certainly not without doubt) they would still have to show that the government did not do all it could to avert the arson.

[Buchholz]

.

In addition to the 3.8 Billion Baht to pay for CentralWorld, the Bangkok Civil Court has now ordered Deves Insurance to pay 1.977 Billion Baht to pay for the adjoining Zen Department store for damages caused during the Red Shirt Riots of 2010.

.

.

[Buchholz]

.

I

In other compensation for the Red Shirt Riots of 2010 news, the Bangkok Civil Court also ordered Muang Thai Insurance to pay Chulalongkorn University Bt1.78 Million for two shop-houses owned by the school that were damaged by fire during the riots, along with the customary 7.5% interest starting from December 2010, which had been its deadline.

.

/

Edited March 6, 2013 by Buchholz

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

If it was your or my house or business that got burned down in 2010, you can bet the insurer would be refusing to pay arguing no coverage under the terrorism exemption that's standard in property insurance policies here. And in all likelihood, they'd get away with taking that position.

It's kind of interesting that CentralWorld and Chula seem to have been able to circumvent that exemption... Of course, CentralWorld and Chula aren't you and me.

I wonder if the insurers will/are able to appeal the rulings up to the higher level courts? It's a lot of money at stake, probably moreso for the insurers compared to the owners of CentralWorld.