Visa To Ireland

[JusticeFT96]

Hi there,

We are currently in the UK on a family visit visa for 6 months which expires in June, I was wondering if it was difficult for her to get a visa travelling with me to stay in Ireland? I need to find somewhere in Europe to stay for at least 3 months but due to my work (online poker player) some countries such as France and Spain I cannot go to as they have banned global online poker sites. Ireland would be ideal as its close to the UK, similar weather and of course they speak English.

If anyone could offer me any advice on this I would greatly appreciate it.

Cheers

Al

[7by7]

I suspect that she would need to apply for an Irish visa in Thailand.

As you are working illegally, i.e. not declaring and paying tax on your income, using the EEA route is not an option as you would need to prove that you, the EEA national, were exercising an economic treaty right in the RoI.

Illegal working may seem attractive at the time, but by so doing you've bollixed the chances of a long term visa for your partner; Irish, UK or EEA.

[JusticeFT96]

I am not working illegally in the eyes of the government I am not working at all. Only certain countries tax poker winnings I suppose its a good thing living in the UK and not paying tax on it but for this 1 issue its a problem.

[bangkockney]

I suspect that she would need to apply for an Irish visa in Thailand.

As you are working illegally, i.e. not declaring and paying tax on your income, using the EEA route is not an option as you would need to prove that you, the EEA national, were exercising an economic treaty right in the RoI.

Illegal working may seem attractive at the time, but by so doing you've bollixed the chances of a long term visa for your partner; Irish, UK or EEA.

That's twice you've called this poor chap out as a law breaker. How about an apology?

And he hasn't ruined his chances at all - he could make use of the savings route.

[Eff1n2ret]

Are you married to your other half? If so, under EEA Regulations you have the right to travel to Ireland for up to 3 months for any purpose whatsoever, and your non-EEA wife is entitled to go with you. Presumably you must have satisfied the UK Immigration requirements as a sponsor if she is currently in the UK with you on a Family Visit Visa, and I wouldn't have thought that the Irish requirements would be any more onerous. You could start by looking at this page:-

http://foreignaffairs.gov.ie/home/index.aspx?id=8605

It says there that UK residents can get visa info via a premium rate number which appears to be administered by an agency, which doesn't look very promising, but if I were you I would start there. If you input "EEA Family" into the search facility on the above page, you can also find a link to the application for a Residence Card which she could apply for once you're there. The boxes on the form which can be ticked relating to the EEA National's (your) status include "self-employed" and "supported by other means"

The fact is that there is no regular immigration control between the UK and the Republic, so it would probably be possible to travel and apply for EEA Residence once you're there - even if she has entered the country illegally, EU caselaw (Metock) says that does not affect her rights as an EEA Family Member. I'm not sure I'd recommend that, it might be less hassle for you to start with a legal application in the UK. If, once there, she was granted an Irish Residence Card and you had indisputable proof of a period of working in Ireland in the form of tax payments, she would then be entitled to return to the UK with you as an EEA Family Member.

[JusticeFT96]

Thanks for that I will look into it, we are married yes and have a child together. She is in the UK on a tourist visa which expires in June. The only problem I have is the tax payments as I make my money through gambling. I do make a very good wage from it, usually 6 figures a year. I never took saving seriously as I was too busy enjoying life and travelling but then within the space of 6 months I was in a relationship with someone who was then pregnant and I was living in Thailand a country that I found it hard to make a decent living in with the bad internet connection so saving has been difficult which is why I am in the UK now living with my parents in order to try and save money for a house deposit.

Would it be worth contacting a visa agency or even talking to the embassy direct to see what my options are do you think?

[Eff1n2ret]

EEA applications are free of charge (although you might get hit for an "admin fee" at some stage). If it was me, before I shelled out several hundred pounds to an agent I would try and see if I can make sense of it myself - it shouldn't be that difficult. The only embassy number for visa information that is published is the one on the page that I have already linked. The London embassy gives the same number, and an address in the Cromwell Road here.

http://www.embassyofireland.co.uk/home/index.aspx?id=33706

Just tell them that you are a UK (therefore EEA) national wishing to visit Ireland with your Thai wife, get the appropriate form from them and fill it in. If you have queries, I'm sure there must be a few on this forum who can tell you how it works. For EEA nationals, the UK issues a different visa from the normal visit visa, it's called an "EEA Family Permit". I don't know if Ireland has the same system, they might just issue a visit visa. The point to remember is that as an EU national you have an absolute right to travel anywhere within the EU and stay for up to 3 months, and your immediate family has an absolute right to go with you. If you decide to stay and work your wife should then apply to the Irish authorities there for a Residence Card. I've no idea how the Irish would regard your means of making a living, but even if you took a part-time job as a road-sweeper for a few months that would be sufficient qualification to apply to the UK Embassy in Dublin for your wife to return to the UK on an EEA Family Permit.

[beano2274]

She cannot apply in the UK for the visa as she has no rights of abode in the UK and would therefore have to apply in Thailand, see question 19 on the application form.

sorry my mistake forget that about question 19, does not apply to Ireland

However read this from the website:

Holders of UK visit visas who wish to travel to Ireland
should apply for their Irish visa in their country of permanent
residence. Applications from UK visit visa holders will not
be accepted in the Visa Office (London).

http://www.embassyofireland.co.uk/home/index.aspx?id=33715

Edited March 7, 2013 by beano2274

[Jay Sata]

In all honesty I think you'll have to go down the normal route rather than trying to find loopholes.

[beano2274]

And JusticeFT96 best read this to get more information, and come back with any questions

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/rights_of_residence_in_ireland/residence_rights_of_non_eea_nationals_in_ireland.html

[JusticeFT96]

She cannot apply in the UK for the visa as she has no rights of abode in the UK and would therefore have to apply in Thailand, see question 19 on the application form.

sorry my mistake forget that about question 19, does not apply to Ireland

However read this from the website:

Holders of UK visit visas who wish to travel to Ireland

should apply for their Irish visa in their country of permanent

residence. Applications from UK visit visa holders will not

be accepted in the Visa Office (London).

http://www.embassyofireland.co.uk/home/index.aspx?id=33715

So basically I have to send her back to Thailand for her to apply for a visa?

Really do hate all these rules, married with a child, I earn a lot more than the average wage in the UK but because I cant prove it my wife is not allowed to stay with me here.

[Jay Sata]

She cannot apply in the UK for the visa as she has no rights of abode in the UK and would therefore have to apply in Thailand, see question 19 on the application form.

sorry my mistake forget that about question 19, does not apply to Ireland

However read this from the website:

Holders of UK visit visas who wish to travel to Ireland

should apply for their Irish visa in their country of permanent

residence. Applications from UK visit visa holders will not

be accepted in the Visa Office (London).

http://www.embassyofireland.co.uk/home/index.aspx?id=33715

So basically I have to send her back to Thailand for her to apply for a visa?

Really do hate all these rules, married with a child, I earn a lot more than the average wage in the UK but because I cant prove it my wife is not allowed to stay with me here.

I'm sure as a gambler you have a system and sadly so does the UK and Eire.

As I suggested earlier you can prove it if you pay your winnings in to a UK or Offshore bank and get an accountant on board.

If you can get a chartered accountant to certify your income and back it up with bank statements the visa for your wife will be no problem.

[JusticeFT96]

She cannot apply in the UK for the visa as she has no rights of abode in the UK and would therefore have to apply in Thailand, see question 19 on the application form.

sorry my mistake forget that about question 19, does not apply to Ireland

However read this from the website:

Holders of UK visit visas who wish to travel to Ireland

should apply for their Irish visa in their country of permanent

residence. Applications from UK visit visa holders will not

be accepted in the Visa Office (London).

http://www.embassyofireland.co.uk/home/index.aspx?id=33715

So basically I have to send her back to Thailand for her to apply for a visa?

Really do hate all these rules, married with a child, I earn a lot more than the average wage in the UK but because I cant prove it my wife is not allowed to stay with me here.

I'm sure as a gambler you have a system and sadly so does the UK and Eire.

As I suggested earlier you can prove it if you pay your winnings in to a UK or Offshore bank and get an accountant on board.

If you can get a chartered accountant to certify your income and back it up with bank statements the visa for your wife will be no problem.

I will get in touch with an accountant and see what my options are. Thanks for the advice once again!

We are thinking about going back to Thailand in June when the visa expires and then apply for the Irish visa when we are over there.

[oldgent]

Ireland is a divided country are you talking North which is part of the UK. you shouldn't have a problem. there is no border so no border control

motorway all the way south. where are you intending to stay hotel or other. don't think hotels ask for passports or visa. but if it is south Ireland then bring plenty of money because it is expensive.

[JusticeFT96]

Ireland is a divided country are you talking North which is part of the UK. you shouldn't have a problem. there is no border so no border control

motorway all the way south. where are you intending to stay hotel or other. don't think hotels ask for passports or visa. but if it is south Ireland then bring plenty of money because it is expensive.

I was thinking south, I couldnt get a visa for the north as she is already on a family visit in the UK now so we cant apply for another 6 months right? I would rent a house there for 6 months or so then head on to the uk with a new tourist visa.

[I Like Thai]

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Visa%20Waiver%20Programme%20Information%20Note%20March%202012.pdf/Files/Visa%20Waiver%20Programme%20Information%20Note%20March%202012.pdf Immigration Act 2004 (Visas) Order 2012

Citizens of certain countries require an entry visa for Ireland.

If you are a citizen of a country that is on Schedule 1 of the Immigration Act above, you do NOT require an entry visa for Ireland. Citizens of countries which are not on the list must apply for a visa before they travel to Ireland.

If you are a citizen of a country that is on Schedule 2 of the Immigration Act above, you may be able to travel to Ireland if you have a valid U.K. General C Visa and meet Visa Waiver Programme requirements. For details of this programme please click here (PDF 1825kb) .

Otherwise, If you are a national of a visa-required country you will need to apply for an Irish visa in advance of travel to Ireland.

Please note that a Schengen visa or UK D visa is not valid for travel to Ireland.

Transit Visas are required by citizens of the countries listed in Schedule 3 of the Immigration Act above.

Please note all citizens of non-EU countries, whether they require a visa or not, are subject to immigration control at the point of entry to Ireland.

Applicants who are holders of Convention travel documents issued by EEA states should refer to Article 3 of the Immigration Act above (Short-stay visits only).

[Jay Sata]

Ireland is a divided country are you talking North which is part of the UK. you shouldn't have a problem. there is no border so no border control

motorway all the way south. where are you intending to stay hotel or other. don't think hotels ask for passports or visa. but if it is south Ireland then bring plenty of money because it is expensive.

I was thinking south, I couldnt get a visa for the north as she is already on a family visit in the UK now so we cant apply for another 6 months right? I would rent a house there for 6 months or so then head on to the uk with a new tourist visa.

I have a suspicion that your scheme will not work and could in fact cause problems with future UK visa's for your wife.

[7by7]

Even though there are few, if any, immigration controls when entering the RoI by land from the UK, as a Thai she would still need a visa for the RoI and so simply driving over the border from the North means that she will be in the RoI illegally.

Even if she were in the RoI legally, unless applying under the Surinder Singh ruling, she would need a valid visa to enter the UK, and she would have to apply for this in her country of residence: which unless you can show she has been legally residing in the RoI is Thailand.

To apply for an EEA family permit for the UK under the Surinder Singh ruling you would need to show that you have been living and working, employed or self employed, in another EEA country, e.g. the RoI, and that she has been living (legally!) there with you.

So, you will need to become 'official' and declare your earnings to the appropriate tax authorities; even if they are exempt from tax, you still need to declare them!

Edited March 8, 2013 by 7by7

[JusticeFT96]

So I am going to have to make myself self employed, class my poker winnings as affiliate earnings from my website and start paying taxes.

If I went down that route would I have to inform anyone in the ROI that I am self employed and working there or would I just carry on as normal and file a tax return form in the UK?

I do have another alternative which is my friend would lend me the money required for savings, its around £62k? and have that in a bank for 6 months or so, this would then allow me to get a settlement visa in the UK right? I could simply say the £60k came from a big win on poker and I am saving it. Is it really as simple as that or is there more to it?

[7by7]

For your wife to live in Ireland with you under the EEA rules you would need to be exercising an economic treaty right there; job seeking, employed, self employed, studying or living off independent means.

You would need to satisfy the Irish authorities that you were doing so, how you would do that I don't know.

If your wife is going to apply for a UK settlement visa she needs to do this from Thailand.

You can satisfy the UK settlement financial requirement with savings. Savings of £62,500 means that you need no income at all.

As you say, these savings must belong to you and/or your wife and have been in your and/or your wife's possession and complete control for at least 6 months prior to the application.

A gift from friends or family will count, provided it meets the above, but a loan will not.

could simply say the £60k came from a big win on poker and I am saving

This is a lie and attempting to obtain a visa by deception.

If discovered during the application process then your wife's application will be refused and she could be banned from the UK for life.

If discovered at any time after her visa is issued then whatever LTR she has at the time could be canceled, she deported and banned from the UK for life.

Would they find out? Possibly as if you say the money came from your winnings they may ask for evidence of this.

You're a professional gambler, fancy those odds?

If you and your wife have been living in the RoI, or any other EEA state apart from the UK, then you can use the Surinder Singh ruling to return to the UK with her. But to do so you will need to prove that you have been employed or self employed in that state.

[I Like Thai]

So I am going to have to make myself self employed, class my poker winnings as affiliate earnings from my website and start paying taxes.

If I went down that route would I have to inform anyone in the ROI that I am self employed and working there or would I just carry on as normal and file a tax return form in the UK?

I do have another alternative which is my friend would lend me the money required for savings, its around £62k? and have that in a bank for 6 months or so, this would then allow me to get a settlement visa in the UK right? I could simply say the £60k came from a big win on poker and I am saving it. Is it really as simple as that or is there more to it?

http://www.revenue.ie/en/business/running/registering-tax.html

[Jay Sata]

So I am going to have to make myself self employed, class my poker winnings as affiliate earnings from my website and start paying taxes.

If I went down that route would I have to inform anyone in the ROI that I am self employed and working there or would I just carry on as normal and file a tax return form in the UK?

I do have another alternative which is my friend would lend me the money required for savings, its around £62k? and have that in a bank for 6 months or so, this would then allow me to get a settlement visa in the UK right? I could simply say the £60k came from a big win on poker and I am saving it. Is it really as simple as that or is there more to it?

http://www.revenue.ie/en/business/running/registering-tax.html

As I said earlier....get yourself an accountant. He'll have all the answers and the fees are tax deductible.

Sounds like you need to form a limited company and work the system. Your partner can be a director and paid by you. (You are probably paying her anyway)

No one here can give you the advice you want for nothing.

Life's a gamble and it sounds like you are winning.

Bon Voyage

[NoshowJones]

I am not working illegally in the eyes of the government I am not working at all. Only certain countries tax poker winnings I suppose its a good thing living in the UK and not paying tax on it but for this 1 issue its a problem.

Good on you not paying taxes in the UK. I wouldn't either, the government would only use it for overseas aid and MPs "expenses" oh, and handouts, houses etc to emigrants.

[Arkady]

Does Ireland check passport of passengers arriving from the UK? I can't recall going through any immigration there.

[Arkady]

I suspect that she would need to apply for an Irish visa in Thailand.

As you are working illegally, i.e. not declaring and paying tax on your income, using the EEA route is not an option as you would need to prove that you, the EEA national, were exercising an economic treaty right in the RoI.

Illegal working may seem attractive at the time, but by so doing you've bollixed the chances of a long term visa for your partner; Irish, UK or EEA.

That's twice you've called this poor chap out as a law breaker. How about an apology?

And he hasn't ruined his chances at all - he could make use of the savings route.

I think the problem lies in the fact that the OP referred to his occupation as work, whereas it is simply gambling. You certainly don't need a work permit to do that, if you are a foreigner.

[7by7]

Does Ireland check passport of passengers arriving from the UK? I can't recall going through any immigration there.

Arrive by air; yes.

Arrive by sea or land; usually not; but sometimes yes.

Whether her passport is checked or not if she were to enter the RoI without the appropriate visa she would be there illegally.

BTW, Bangkockney, the OP is working as self employed in the UK and so should complete an SA return. Whether his earnings are actually taxable or not does not change the fact that he is breaking the law by not doing so.

He also must have a bank account to pay his stake money from and winnings into. One has to wonder why he is reluctant to show this to the UKBA to prove his earnings and/or savings levels!

Nothing to aplogise for.

Edited March 10, 2013 by 7by7

[JusticeFT96]

Does Ireland check passport of passengers arriving from the UK? I can't recall going through any immigration there.

Arrive by air; yes.

Arrive by sea or land; usually not; but sometimes yes.

Whether her passport is checked or not if she were to enter the RoI without the appropriate visa she would be there illegally.

BTW, Bangkockney, the OP is working as self employed in the UK and so should complete an SA return. Whether his earnings are actually taxable or not does not change the fact that he is breaking the law by not doing so.

He also must have a bank account to pay his stake money from and winnings into. One has to wonder why he is reluctant to show this to the UKBA to prove his earnings and/or savings levels!

Nothing to aplogise for.

Please do stop talking as if you know me or you know what I have done.

In my application to the UKBA for the tourist visa I disclosed ALL of my finances, statements from pokerstars proving how much I had made in the last year, my bank account with the payments in and out to prove it. Who ever said I was reluctant to show these, stop making things up and having a snipe at me.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/bimmanual/bim22017.htm you cannot be self employed as a gambler as it is not classed as a trade. In the UK poker is classed as a game of chance not a game of skill, other countries class it differently and therefore tax it but the UK do not so I am not breaking any laws. I am officially unemployed but not seeking employment.

I have nothing to hide to anyone in the UK, I know poker players who make 7 figures a year in the UK and the only thing they pay taxes on are coaching and advertisement fees you do not pay ANY tax on poker winnings and you do not need to declare it. If this was the USA however it would be different.

[Jay Sata]

I think an accountant will have the answers you need. You could be a consultant or employee of an investment company and be paid for advice

to that company. As I see someone playing the stock or futures market is pretty much doing what you do.

[bangkockney]

Does Ireland check passport of passengers arriving from the UK? I can't recall going through any immigration there.

BTW, Bangkockney, the OP is working as self employed in the UK and so should complete an SA return. Whether his earnings are actually taxable or not does not change the fact that he is breaking the law by not doing so.

He also must have a bank account to pay his stake money from and winnings into. One has to wonder why he is reluctant to show this to the UKBA to prove his earnings and/or savings levels!

Nothing to aplogise for.

Sorry 7by7 but you are wrong.

It is firmly established in case law that gambling is not a trade. There is no vocation of betting.

He is not doing anything illegal so please do stop saying he is - after all, you are viewed as someone with an authoritative opinion here. But in this instance you are wide of the mark.

He could incorporate but to what end? We know little of his proficiency but I would suggest building savings as the best route - why reduce his ability to do so just for the sake of paperwork?!

[7by7]

Justice( )FT96, my comments have been based on the information you have provided.

Why are you looking to move temporarily to the RoI and then get another UK visit visa?

Why not simply return to Thailand and apply for UK settlement?

If everything is as above board and you are as successful as you claim, why are you unable to show you have sufficient income and/or savings?

What have you got to hide?

Bangkockney, read my previous; I have not said that his earnings will be taxed. I am also not the only one here saying that he should be declaring them, however.

The OP has already said he is considering committing one illegal act; borrowing the money from friends and telling the UKBA it came from income!

Edited March 10, 2013 by 7by7