I Was Assaulted

[Unwisemonkey]

I'm purposefully leaving out several details because there is an investigation already ongoing now. I don't know if this is the correct forum to post this in but since it has to do with my ex I'll tell it here.

Basically we got into an argument over the children. I wanted to take them for the weekend and she had refused to let me despite the fact I had conceded to her wishes to keep them for the last several weekends in a row. I've been promising my kids to do things for weeks now and I don't like looking like an A-hole on account of their mother being a nut so I told her again I would be taking the children for the weekend. Naturally she refused but I did not budge, and simply told her I was as capable as her to take them to their appointments (I don't know if they really exist or not) and there is no reason for her to act this way. She started screaming over the phone and making ultimatums and I told her she was out of control.

She hung up on me and predictably she drove over to where I work, where I also had my children at the time because I am ensuring they learn English with me after school. She had done this sort of thing before and I did not feel like letting her come in and confuse the children and stress out my S.O. and so I stood in the doorway outside the shop and refused to let her in. She gave me an ultimatum to give up the children and I refused thinking she was only calling the police; something she does and nothing I can't handle.

I was wrong. She called up some guy who brought his pal with him to the party and they came in to give me a thrashing. I got injured but the long and the short of it is that after the first hit I Hulked out and let these guys know with my fists they had messed with the wrong dude. I have legal representation now, I've informed my embassy, and the police are investigating and doing a fine job thus far and I am very sure my ex will receive a conviction along with her gang.

Regretfully my children saw the whole thing take place despite being in a room partitioned off. My only bittersweet satisfaction is that they saw their daddy kick butt instead of getting his butt kicked. I've been forced to return them into that witch's custody though despite us still being married and no custody order.

I wonder how this will affect the judges ruling on who gets custody when we do get divorced.

So just a word of advice to anyone who may find themselves in this situation with a Thai spouse (yes ladies you too) even with a mountain of evidence they don't hold people in jail and allow them to pay bail if they want freedom before their trial while the police continue an investigation. No... the leave them free to continue planning revenge and retaliation so you're basically going to have to walk around paranoid until the situation is resolved, which is what I am doing now. It's not fun. It's probably a mild form of PTSD and I think not only I deserve better but Thai people do to. It's no wonder when government set's legal policies like this people feel the BiB are corrupt and useless, I feel sorry for the police in some small way now and have a lot of respect for them because it's not the regular Joe beat cop or rookie who is setting the policies; it's the politicians. Truly Thai people deserve better, we all do.

[TommoPhysicist]

Tell us again why you let her take the children at all?

Tell us again why you would listen to someone shouting down a phone?

Not divorced so rules are, who has can keep.

Edited March 6, 2013 by TommoPhysicist

[Chicog]

If you gave them a leathering you'd better start looking over your shoulder.

[britinthai]

You have started something you will not be able to finish. The problem is that most men know what is going to happen, but don't believe that it will happen to them, until it is too late. My suggestion is if you don't have the passports, apply for new ones and exit the country, go home and only return once your kids are grown-up.

[Mario2008]

You have started something you will not be able to finish. The problem is that most men know what is going to happen, but don't believe that it will happen to them, until it is too late. My suggestion is if you don't have the passports, apply for new ones and exit the country, go home and only return once your kids are grown-up.

Which would result in a custody case.

Note that Thailand is a member to the treaty on child abduction. if th mother plays it smart, she gets custody and can go to the public prosecuter to try and invoce the treaty.

[Unwisemonkey]

You have started something you will not be able to finish. The problem is that most men know what is going to happen, but don't believe that it will happen to them, until it is too late. My suggestion is if you don't have the passports, apply for new ones and exit the country, go home and only return once your kids are grown-up.

Which would result in a custody case.

Note that Thailand is a member to the treaty on child abduction. if th mother plays it smart, she gets custody and can go to the public prosecuter to try and invoce the treaty.

But it is not codified into Thai law, hence the reason why Thailand is such a popular Child abduction destination because one the parent has to find the abducted child first, and then go through the Thai Family court.

I'm not really sure what britinthai is suggesting either since he is speaking so vague and cryptic. Best to be direct chap. Do you think she's gonna have me offed? Is that what you're saying?

[Unwisemonkey]

Tell us again why you let her take the children at all?

Tell us again why you would listen to someone shouting down a phone?

Not divorced so rules are, who has can keep.

1. I was taking the advice of my legal counsel

2. I didn't.

[Unwisemonkey]

You have started something you will not be able to finish. The problem is that most men know what is going to happen, but don't believe that it will happen to them, until it is too late. My suggestion is if you don't have the passports, apply for new ones and exit the country, go home and only return once your kids are grown-up.

Which would result in a custody case.

Note that Thailand is a member to the treaty on child abduction. if th mother plays it smart, she gets custody and can go to the public prosecuter to try and invoce the treaty.

Mario, how would she play it smart? I'm not being ostentious I just know you are the Guru of these issues, and I can not speak too openly about the case right now but I'd like to have an idea about what to judge my current situation against.

[Deserted]

You may have won the battle mate, but the war is a different story, as you are fighting on her territory. Sorry to hear that your partner has turned into a bit of a nutter. It sounds like she doesn't care about your children at all, if she did, she wouldn't expose them to such things I'm sure.

[Mario2008]

You have started something you will not be able to finish. The problem is that most men know what is going to happen, but don't believe that it will happen to them, until it is too late. My suggestion is if you don't have the passports, apply for new ones and exit the country, go home and only return once your kids are grown-up.

Which would result in a custody case.

Note that Thailand is a member to the treaty on child abduction. if th mother plays it smart, she gets custody and can go to the public prosecuter to try and invoce the treaty.

Mario, how would she play it smart? I'm not being ostentious I just know you are the Guru of these issues, and I can not speak too openly about the case right now but I'd like to have an idea about what to judge my current situation against.

Playing it smart would be to file for custody as soon as she can or when you leave the country, before you file for custody for the children. If there is already a court decision from a Thai court, a UK court will have very limited possibilities to go against that becasue of the treaty on child abduction.

[TommoPhysicist]

Tell us again why you let her take the children at all?

Tell us again why you would listen to someone shouting down a phone?

Not divorced so rules are, who has can keep.

1. I was taking the advice of my legal counsel

2. I didn't.

Get new legal counsel .... this one isn't on your side IMHO.

Legal help is a big problem in Thailand because the Thai lawyer will often act in the interests of another Thai, and not the foreigner that hired them.

[krisb]

If you gave them a leathering you'd better start looking over your shoulder.

Why? So the op can give em another? Good on him for standing up and giving them a hiding I say.

Perhaps its them that need to look over their shoulder. People seem to assume that just because they are Asians, they are some sort of crazy machete wielding psychos? who by the way dont all know karate like in the movies.

Edited March 9, 2013 by krisb

[NoshowJones]

You have started something you will not be able to finish. The problem is that most men know what is going to happen, but don't believe that it will happen to them, until it is too late. My suggestion is if you don't have the passports, apply for new ones and exit the country, go home and only return once your kids are grown-up.

Thais do not know how to fight fairly, they now know you are handy with your'e fists, so you can expect around six Thais, who will have weapons. I would take Britinthais advice.

[britinthai]

Gents Having gone through the UK courts, where my former wife had full custody, indeed the child will be returned (Subject to age / article 13 of the Hague convention) and of course how much money you have. I had little option but to stand-up in court to say no order, as it broke me both mentally and financially. I am now in a country where my former wife brought my son to me, and I have started a new custody case, but as expected the Thai courts have already told me they will award custody to my former wife, even though they know I cannot travel to Thailand to defend myself - once you annoy the Thai courts like I have you will never win irrespective of the best interest of the child. You do not have to go to your home country to start a new custody case you simply need residence in a country that has a legal system and in my opinion is neutral or has a system that is fair for both the mum and dad. England is not really fair to the dad and as many reports if American or any other country Thailand will not accept a foreign court order, so it means you best not think of returning to Thailand. Thailand may be signed up to a child abduction scheme but from what I understand and for sure experienced they do not and will not give you or your country's respect of accepting your home country court order. My former wife is having me charged here in the middle east for holding a minor, and even though and soon I hope it verdict will be not guilty; for sure it will not be recognized in Thailand and they will still pursue a similar charge in Thailand - for those who say they is no parental abduction law in Thailand; this only applies to cases that has not gone to court. The legal timeframes in Thailand can work in your favour, simply make sure you appoint a lawyer and make sure you start a new custody case in either your own country or a neutral country. Where I applied for custody the first hearing was within two weeks of making the application, an appeal will take about two months and the final Supreme Court will be concluded within a year. Thailand took 2 year for custody 3 years for the appeal and 4 years for the supreme court to conclude my case, which is not in the best interest of the child and any Thai lawyer will help the mum abuse the legal system - for sure the courts know this, as every time I reported neglect they simply hid behind the supreme court; yes they tried to get the mum to play ball; they even had to threaten her just to let my parents see the child, where they told me they could not force the mum to let my parents see their grandson they agreed it is a messed up system. Basically if your X is a pro, then if you do your homework and you are in a position to pay her off then yes like several expats in Thailand you will get the custody, but other than that if you want to stay in Thailand prepare for a very long battle and for sure a lot of heartache and without doubt a very frustrating times where Thai people will take you to limit that need controlling because as as soon as you break you have lost and the Thai courts will have great pleasure in telling you that you are not a fit father; and of course this is what her lawyer will be instructing her to do, and yes we can all agree Thai woman are expert in the arena of bring out the anger in men. Once you have damaged your credibility in the courts you will never win, even if you have the judge or complete panel replaces, and even if you do have the law on your side you will still lose as the courts will not lose face, even after an appeal and the Supreme court they are all connected in all states; in fact they all get shipped around. Personally I would never trust the Thai juvenile justice system; yet there are some who have won custody but in reality they are open and shut cases. Sadly and of course we are to blame as we have gone across waters, thus causing an international Ping-Pong situation, which is what the royal courts of justice in London told me. This was many years ago and at that time I was unwise of the law. Had I gone back to the UK and started a custody case as soon as I arrived rather than use the Thai courts then things would have been different. Even today some ten years on, Im still angry with myself for trusting the Thai law; however the Thai law has come a long way and for sure is acceptable to for those foreigners to win custody of their child. Obviously every situation is different such as my son was born in the UK and resided there for 2.5 years thus it could have been considered as his habitual home, where it was only six months of living in Thailand that my former wife had an affair with my friend I should have gone straight back; I have moved on, I now have my son where he is telling everybody he is not going to return to Thailand with his mum and husband (The reason I divorced her) hence his age also plays a major part to all this. Currently his mum hold his passport, but sooner he will get a new passport and then he will return to the UK and appoint his own lawyer thus irrespective of what the Thai courts does my UK lawyer has already submitted a referenced list as per the UK childrens act to the Oman courts (My former wife requested that we follow the British law) which plays a very strong weight towards the child's decision - thus unless the mum can prove the father is not a fit father then the child's wishes will be respected; this is also the signed convention of children rights in both where I'm currently staying and of course Thailand; it is just that the country where I'm currently residing has integrity and will stand by agreement where Thailand does not.

Edited March 10, 2013 by britinthai

[SOTIRIOS]

...welcome to Hell....a God-forsaken land.....Thailand.....

...culture.....???......Buddhism.....???........surprise......

[cjchaos]

You have started something you will not be able to finish. The problem is that most men know what is going to happen, but don't believe that it will happen to them, until it is too late. My suggestion is if you don't have the passports, apply for new ones and exit the country, go home and only return once your kids are grown-up.

Which would result in a custody case.

Note that Thailand is a member to the treaty on child abduction. if th mother plays it smart, she gets custody and can go to the public prosecuter to try and invoce the treaty.

It depends where the OP is from Mario, I am from UK and this is from British Embassy website.

In Thailand parental child abduction is not a criminal offence. It is considered to be a dispute between the parents and a civil matter to be settled by a court of law.

Thailand has signed the 1980 Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of Child Abduction but the UK has not yet been able to enter into treaty relations with Thailand. This mean the Convention does not operate between the UK and Thailand. However, the Convention may be in effect between Thailand and other countries.

However, people cannot apply for a new passport for their child unless declairing the old ones lost. If somebody fills in a lost passport form when it is with the spouse due to a custody situation, it is classed as fraud. It warns against doing this exact thing on the form and people who voilate this could be jailed for a lengthy sentence.

[Mario2008]

The problem with the convention is that Thailand regards disputess above a child with Thai nationality as a matter that is for the Thai courts to decide and not falling under the convention. Cases about children in Thailand which don't have Thai nationality are treated according to the convention. meaning that in principle the foreign court decision is respected and upheld.

[Jawnie]

Gents Having gone through the UK courts, where my former wife had full custody, indeed the child will be returned (Subject to age / article 13 of the Hague convention) and of course how much money you have. I had little option but to stand-up in court to say no order, as it broke me both mentally and financially. I am now in a country where my former wife brought my son to me, and I have started a new custody case, but as expected the Thai courts have already told me they will award custody to my former wife, even though they know I cannot travel to Thailand to defend myself - once you annoy the Thai courts like I have you will never win irrespective of the best interest of the child. You do not have to go to your home country to start a new custody case you simply need residence in a country that has a legal system and in my opinion is neutral or has a system that is fair for both the mum and dad. England is not really fair to the dad and as many reports if American or any other country Thailand will not accept a foreign court order, so it means you best not think of returning to Thailand. Thailand may be signed up to a child abduction scheme but from what I understand and for sure experienced they do not and will not give you or your country's respect of accepting your home country court order. My former wife is having me charged here in the middle east for holding a minor, and even though and soon I hope it verdict will be not guilty; for sure it will not be recognized in Thailand and they will still pursue a similar charge in Thailand - for those who say they is no parental abduction law in Thailand; this only applies to cases that has not gone to court. The legal timeframes in Thailand can work in your favour, simply make sure you appoint a lawyer and make sure you start a new custody case in either your own country or a neutral country. Where I applied for custody the first hearing was within two weeks of making the application, an appeal will take about two months and the final Supreme Court will be concluded within a year. Thailand took 2 year for custody 3 years for the appeal and 4 years for the supreme court to conclude my case, which is not in the best interest of the child and any Thai lawyer will help the mum abuse the legal system - for sure the courts know this, as every time I reported neglect they simply hid behind the supreme court; yes they tried to get the mum to play ball; they even had to threaten her just to let my parents see the child, where they told me they could not force the mum to let my parents see their grandson they agreed it is a messed up system. Basically if your X is a pro, then if you do your homework and you are in a position to pay her off then yes like several expats in Thailand you will get the custody, but other than that if you want to stay in Thailand prepare for a very long battle and for sure a lot of heartache and without doubt a very frustrating times where Thai people will take you to limit that need controlling because as as soon as you break you have lost and the Thai courts will have great pleasure in telling you that you are not a fit father; and of course this is what her lawyer will be instructing her to do, and yes we can all agree Thai woman are expert in the arena of bring out the anger in men. Once you have damaged your credibility in the courts you will never win, even if you have the judge or complete panel replaces, and even if you do have the law on your side you will still lose as the courts will not lose face, even after an appeal and the Supreme court they are all connected in all states; in fact they all get shipped around. Personally I would never trust the Thai juvenile justice system; yet there are some who have won custody but in reality they are open and shut cases. Sadly and of course we are to blame as we have gone across waters, thus causing an international Ping-Pong situation, which is what the royal courts of justice in London told me. This was many years ago and at that time I was unwise of the law. Had I gone back to the UK and started a custody case as soon as I arrived rather than use the Thai courts then things would have been different. Even today some ten years on, Im still angry with myself for trusting the Thai law; however the Thai law has come a long way and for sure is acceptable to for those foreigners to win custody of their child. Obviously every situation is different such as my son was born in the UK and resided there for 2.5 years thus it could have been considered as his habitual home, where it was only six months of living in Thailand that my former wife had an affair with my friend I should have gone straight back; I have moved on, I now have my son where he is telling everybody he is not going to return to Thailand with his mum and husband (The reason I divorced her) hence his age also plays a major part to all this. Currently his mum hold his passport, but sooner he will get a new passport and then he will return to the UK and appoint his own lawyer thus irrespective of what the Thai courts does my UK lawyer has already submitted a referenced list as per the UK childrens act to the Oman courts (My former wife requested that we follow the British law) which plays a very strong weight towards the child's decision - thus unless the mum can prove the father is not a fit father then the child's wishes will be respected; this is also the signed convention of children rights in both where I'm currently staying and of course Thailand; it is just that the country where I'm currently residing has integrity and will stand by agreement where Thailand does not.

Could you insert a new paragraph every now and then? Thanks.