Looking For Solid Advice On Credit Card Debt / Bankruptcy (Thai National)

[bangkokburning]

OK, I'm looking for assistance NOT snide comments.

My wife does not hold this debt

Neither her nor I have any intention of paying the debt

We would like to provide assistance / guidance.

I am requesting information, advice, links. I've looked about the Internet snd not found much. My wife has found some info on Pantip which she will review.

My BiL has taken on some massive cc debt. He had kept it secret and is quite overwhelmed we have com to find out. He is a very kind, loving guy. I really could not ask for a more lovely bil. At work, everyone knows and loves him as his family very much.

To his credit, it appears from afar that much of this debt he used merely to pay the household bills of his parents and two years of school he did not finish. He lives a very low key simple life and I am so sad for him.

It appears there is no.bankruptcy court, at least for debtors under 1m thb. I found an article on BKK Post that states after one defaults, two years thereafter if bank does not sue, claims are nullified. What hsppens though is that the banks harrangue and if the debtor starts paying (anything) the debt is reactivated. So it would appear that the best thing to do is to stop paying and hide. Although they do know your work location.

I would like to think a negotiated settlement would be best. I do not know if Thailand does this as fairly standard in US. Hope much of the banks debt will they negotiate to clear the debt? Anyone know best case for USA?

Finally, any strategy going forward? Do you pay the sqeeky wheel, the biggest debt, the smallest debt? What if all cards are maxed and equal debt?

How much would a Thai lawyer cost to explain a proper strategy to my BiL - needed?

His debt, his responsibility. I loathe debt and usuary. Giving largely simple people cc's is just evil.

He doesn't drink, whore, gamble, have a motorcycle, just a simple guy. Loves and cares for his parents. Please no lectures.

He was born and has lived in BKK all.his life so don't think him some fool farmer. He works forva large impressive company and makes 20k a month.

If you don't have a positive contribution, move on. Millions of Thai's have debt, don't pick on my BiL. It's not our country or our problem.

Thank you.

Edited March 6, 2013 by bangkokburning

[transam]

Not your problem. You do not know HIS financial dealings or his personal life outside what you know.

Farang forget and not be dragged in. Seen it, heard it all before.

Your topic post sounds like your asking for advice but nobody must answer.

[rgs2001uk]

"It's not our country or our problem."

Read and then read again the above, the cost of face isnt my problem.

Ask yourself what they would do if you werent there?

[bangkokburning]

What he would do is let it drag out and be in even more debt.

I'm not looking to involve myself at all in the ongoing drama, simply provide an education, alternatives he might have to eliminate and reduce his debt burden and possibly pay for one off legal advice.

Moderator - please lock the thread, as I suspected, this will go nowhere.

[richard_smith237]

What he would do is let it drag out and be in even more debt.

I'm not looking to involve myself at all in the ongoing drama, simply provide an education, alternatives he might have to eliminate and reduce his debt burden and possibly pay for one off legal advice.

Moderator - please lock the thread, as I suspected, this will go nowhere.

What you are doing is honourable. You are caring about a family member... Continue with your search for assistance, you clearly get along well with your BIL and have a mutual respect. I hope you find a way to provide him with helpful advice.

[TommoPhysicist]

Any assets in his name seized, property, vehicles, bank accounts .... then written off after 10 years.

No credit during that 10 years.

Edited March 7, 2013 by TommoPhysicist

[barryw52]

I had a staff member at work who had 2 credit cards maxed out and could not pay the court ordered that he 30% of his salary is taken by the company and sent directly to credit card provider to pay of one Credit card and then the next one once first is paid off. This was for debit of 300,000 Baht. Not sure if there is a better solution. But it hard to take a 30% pay cut if you earn little to start with.

[paz]

..the court ordered that he 30% of his salary is taken ....

That is properly called garnishment.

[Phronesis]

In the debt riddle west, DEBT COUNSELLORS are now a dime a dozen. They specialize in consolidations and debt agreements. Given the extent of personal debt in Thailand, I would be suprised in there are not some similar businesses here.

Perhaps you can get you girl to track one down, and then sponsor and go along to the initial meetings to see what strategies and solutions are offered.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Phronesis

[bangkokburning]

Thanks Barry. Informative. Not really clear how he was brought to court. I would think each bank sues and makes its case but this looks totally incorrect according to your story. Somehow he landed in court and required to pay all banks one by one. That is an odd method to dictate, who is first, who is last? I had read that a person cannot declare bankruptcy on less than 1m debt. Anyway, that is very harsh.

His current proble is as well is that he is just servicing the debt into infinity. The usuary needs to stop.

I also hope that his balances are for goods and services, not interest unpaid. My wife says this is more or less the case.

I was hoping he could directly negotiate a settlement with the banks as stated prior.

30% harsh but would be much easier to swallow if he was given a knock down on repayent of balane.

Thanks

Thanks Richard. He is really a very, very nice guy. He was mortified with shame when his sister (wife) learned. He is such a nice guy that an upper level executive, a friend of both offered to help a bit. I told my wife no, she would only be helping the bank. He is sunk and needs to find his own path, he obviously is in no position to borrow money so it would just be a gift.

Edited March 7, 2013 by bangkokburning

[bangkokburning]

In the debt riddle west, DEBT COUNSELLORS are now a dime a dozen. They specialize in consolidations and debt agreements. Given the extent of personal debt in Thailand, I would be suprised in there are not some similar businesses here.Perhaps you can get you girl to track one down, and then sponsor and go along to the initial meetings to see what strategies and solutions are offered.

Does not appear to be any such thing here although this appears to be a serious problem. I think its non isdue because a person cannot declare bankruptcy so sooner or later the banks get paid. One year or one hundred. Quite draconian.

No one is going to give unsecured loans to people already clearly underwater. Trouble is people make such small wages that when they are overwhelmed with debt, there is no way out.

It's really quite opportunistic. Not unlike giving 18yo college kids cards in US but here they are in far better shape as you cannot aoparantly declare bankruptcy under any terms.

[Farma]

Take a look at the information on this link http://www.bia.co.th/029.html (on bankruptcy from the pinned link at the top of this sub forum.

[endure]

What he would do is let it drag out and be in even more debt.

I'm not looking to involve myself at all in the ongoing drama, simply provide an education, alternatives he might have to eliminate and reduce his debt burden and possibly pay for one off legal advice.

Moderator - please lock the thread, as I suspected, this will go nowhere.

We'll let the thread run. If anyone starts going off topic or giving you grief please hit the report button and we'll attend to it.

[aussiebebe]

My advice would be that you or your wife could use a search engine or the yellow pages to find a local law firm; you could offer to pay for a consultation and could go with your wife and BIL - it would all in Thai but this might help your BIL to know his options. My guess is that he already knows; there's a Thai lady where I work who's brother is going through bankruptcy and she has chatted with me about it - he just went to court, I think your BIL will know.

[isawasnake]

I would say try to find information, and advise him from there. Most important questions at this point are: does the original cc company still hold the debt. If yes, then what is the time frame after default they will relinquish it. I would much rather deal with a collection agency. While they can be more bothersome, there is much more latitude to negotiate at that point. These companies must cut their losses many times, and convincing them there is no money to be had is the best way for them to do that. If this was me, and my BIL owed 100,000... i'd tell him to wait till it goes to a collection agency, and when it does, walk in and offer them 20,000 after pleading case of family, medical bills etc. Convince them the debt will not be repaid. Have him keep in mind a complete 100% collection is a full blown home run for these agencies... they don't often recover at that percentage. If they keep saying no, tell him to shake hands and walk out. And just tell him to repeat that process until they take maybe 25,000. If you bil is as you say, i'd even help him with that 25k if he needs it. Money well spent for a family imo.

Edited March 7, 2013 by isawasnake

[Satcommlee]

I can't really advise well.. but I did recently read an article about many people who are still blacklisted due to thier misfortune after the 1997 Financial crash...

This wasn't thier fault at the time, it was the global economy but yet they still can't get so much as a mobile phone contract even now 16 years later!

[bangkokburning]

Thanks for your three further replies and interest. We are inclined to look at this from our western laws and perspective. I do not know ir honestky think its the same here. The banks own you to afargreater extent.

Aussuebebe - I thought about this. I do not want to be in tbe meeting or involved in any direct way for a variety of reasons. I think lawyets hete even more skeezy than back in US. I worry that any advice given, even if paid for will not be the best and even in the lawyers interest as much ad my bil. For instance, not stating best, cheapest option but one that benefits himself. Unfortunately, like a prior post stated - no debt counselors here. My wife did day she thinks she found a site that helps

, so she will investigate that.

Isawasnake- ah we have the same head. You are very wise ☺ Unfortunately, I do not think they have collection agencies, at keast gor banks. They just nag you into your next life. The laws here seem thus far to really be in favor of the banks. Don't get ne wrong, he birrowed and spent the money - but really quite incredulous neigh nefarious. We will investigate.

Satcomlee - Hah, we are not worried about his credit. Its shot anyway. And ehat dort of corporation extends tens of thousands of baht to someone with limited education and income? Really. The only way this is a good business decision is when you add fail safe laws to prevent default. He does not need credit and never did.

Thanks for link Farma. It was very informative. It does not appear he can file bankruptcy, as I mentioned appears to be 1m bottom limit, laws also seem to be written for businesses (perhsps high net indivduals). Quite a complex process, I cant see him going it alone unless he is simply dragged thru the process by the courts. It does talk about negotiated settlements and meetings of creditors.

Wife foes not believe collection agencies exist here. Sounds about right. They extend their own credit be it Citi or Powerbuy and then manage issues accordingly as another profit center. So it appears thus far.

Edited March 7, 2013 by bangkokburning

[isawasnake]

Isawasnake- ah we have the same head. You are very wise ☺ Unfortunately, I do not think they have collection agencies, at keast gor banks. They just nag you into your next life. The laws here seem thus far to really be in favor of the banks. Don't get ne wrong, he birrowed and spent the money - but really quite incredulous neigh nefarious. We will investigate.

Wow. Did not know that. Who would have thought that collection agencies would be missed lol.

[chainarong]

You need to get expert advise, as issues regarding this can become dangerous in Thailand.

[fletchsmile]

There were a couple of posts on the thread below that may be of some use.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/603285-financial-advisor-for-personal-debt/

EarthAlien had some strategies on playing hardball, and pratical experience. I also suggested a few ideas that might be possible prior to that stage

Best Wishes and Good Luck

Fletch

[bangkokburning]

Thanks. We will search online for agencies to assist him and I will pay for a kegal consult. How much could it be? B2k.

[kjhbigv]

Interesting topic.

Ok say for example...you have a Thai who earns 15k a month, they have run up credit card debt of say 300k. Obviously with interest, the debt is highly unlikely to get paid.

The Thai has no property, no land and no assets.

In the UK, I would probably advise them to ignore the debt (oh god, hear comes the 'I am disgusted at your attitude' brigade).....what would happen if you did the same in Thailand? Remember, this would be a credit card company, not the baseball bat and broken knee caps scenario!

I worked for banks my whole life, both UK and US banks and kinda don't have much sympathy for them.....yes, I did sub-prime lending for sub-prime lenders and let me assure you....they bought it all upon themselves......some of the lending I saw would shock you! Yes, these were very large reputable lenders who honestly did not care who they lent to as long as they could sell on the debt to a naive financial institution for a tidy profit! So, please no lectures, I have zero sympathy for banks!

So, back to the question....you leave the debt....what would happen in Thailand?