Any Advantage To Thai Banks Vs. Other Nation's Banks?

[hermespan]

In my last post I elicited replies comparing BKK Bank to other Thai banks. My question now is comparing the *general* banking industry to those of ASEAN or Asia in general.

My preliminary conclusions entirely based on personal experience as an Anglophone frequent traveller with just thousands not millions...

1. Hong Kong: The best--easy to open, multiple currencies, low FXS spreads, but lousy interest. Few language problems

2. Cambodia: Second best in my opinion--high interest, English widely understood, easy to open

3. Singapore: Not difficult to open, low interest.

4. Thailand: English problematic, weird rules, policies as if cities outsidevof Bangkok are in a foreign country

5. Laos: imposible to open for casual visitors, but better interest in CDs than some nations

6. Malaysia: impossible to open

7. India: The worst, regulated to death, impossible to open, unstable curremcy, etc

I am phasing out to a dormant stage my bank account n Singapore (too many fees), continuing to invest in multiple banks and microfinancing institutions in Cambodia, and increasing in Hong Kong. I would like to hear from others wheich nations are good for permanent travellers: Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Korea, Bangladesh, China etc.

[bangkokburning]

Thai banks may have issues with Americans opening accounts. Thai banks are getting more strict with opening accounts on tourist visas. Thai Banks are only insured to 1m baht, per institution I believe not per branch or account. Thai banks may very well be over leveraged, laden with consumer debt. They are very convenient, efficient, tech accessible with online/bank sim and sms. As the rest of the world forget about interest.

[davejones]

So are you comparing these as an English speaking person? A Thai person using a Thai bank wouldn't have a problem if staff couldn't speak English. So are you comparing the actually banking, or the ability to speak English? I've never had a problem with staff at Bangkok Bank, as nearly everyone I've dealt with has been able to communicate in English. But mostly I use the head office branch.

I've no idea about the other countries you mention, as I have no reason to open bank accounts there.

Out of interest, why do you need bank accounts in so many countries?

Edited March 7, 2013 by davejones

[Naam]

Thai banks may have issues with Americans opening accounts. Thai banks are getting more strict with opening accounts on tourist visas. Thai Banks are only insured to 1m baht, per institution I believe not per branch or account. Thai banks may very well be over leveraged, laden with consumer debt. They are very convenient, efficient, tech accessible with online/bank sim and sms. As the rest of the world forget about interest.

they are indeed very convenient for the average Joe who demands less than 3% of the banking services he can get in Hong Kong or Singapore. anything beyond that Thai banks fail!

"efficient?" = my butt!

[hermespan]

So are you comparing these as an English speaking person? A Thai person using a Thai bank wouldn't have a problem if staff couldn't speak English. So are you comparing the actually banking, or the ability to speak English? I've never had a problem with staff at Bangkok Bank, as nearly everyone I've dealt with has been able to communicate in English. But mostly I use the head office branch.

I've no idea about the other countries you mention, as I have no reason to open bank accounts there.

Out of interest, why do you need bank accounts in so many countries?

Yes, I am comparing banking services in Asia as an English-speaking person.

Why so many bank accounts? I use to be a believer in cash and precious metals, but trading miniscule amounts of gold and silver is not practical even though I support the establishment of a non-fiat currency (e.g. Islamic dinar).For me this has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with economics, though I don't support Islamic banking for other reasons.

I have to put my savings somewhere and I like to be able to access it with low fees and not a lot of FXS. So, I open bank accounts wherever I travel and do business. But as I am not a wealthy man I have stopped doing business with the big banks such as Lloyds. Their minimums are too high and they make opening a long song and dance. I would open an HSBC global account but for three reasons...

1. Minimum is USD20,000

2. HSBC has branches in USA so they can extorted by USA, as Switzerland was for stupidly keeping its gold in USA

3. Even their global account (well, certainly my Hang Seng non-global but still multi currency account) is not truly global. Even though I can wire in CHF I can take it out only in HKD.

Still looking for a bank unencumbered by state restrictions, i.e. 'we deal in ANY currency, any amounts, for anybody', an improvement even on the relatively free market banking in Zurich and Douglas a la 1980s. That might be only halawa/hundi and cash. I am not convinced that banking anywhere is an honest business.

So, for me it is practical, political and ethical considerations. I spread my risks between many banks in multiple currencies, in multiple jurisdictions. This can be difficult to manage with the security precautions. One bank has four codes and a device! Gold and banknotes in the safety box us a lot simpler but has its downsides of course.

Edited March 7, 2013 by hermespan

[hermespan]

To clarify what might seem an odd practice...

I *am* odd.

But besides that, I am homeless. And like being that way. Renting a real apartment or getting a norma job I feel like I am in prison. Probably a minor form of mental illness, considering my paranoia about conspiracies. But I do have some experience having difficulties with governmental authorities so I have a seasoned skepticism about the rich and especially the powerful.

As I have no idea where I will be in a week let alone six months I like to have my options open--any land border or international airport I pass through (well, at least my favourite countries) I like to have a bank card with local currency in it. Enough to live three months as a refugee. I meet many like-minded expats in Cambodia and India. Thailand has more conventional foreign residents.

But I am simplifying as it is too much work and poor value, squirelling money all over Asia.

[TommoPhysicist]

Thai banks may have issues with Americans opening accounts. Thai banks are getting more strict with opening accounts on tourist visas. Thai Banks are only insured to 1m baht, per institution I believe not per branch or account. Thai banks may very well be over leveraged, laden with consumer debt. They are very convenient, efficient, tech accessible with online/bank sim and sms. As the rest of the world forget about interest.

I thought they delayed the 1M limit indefinitely.

Still just as easy to get an account as a tourist (VISA or not).

[Naam]

So are you comparing these as an English speaking person? A Thai person using a Thai bank wouldn't have a problem if staff couldn't speak English. So are you comparing the actually banking, or the ability to speak English? I've never had a problem with staff at Bangkok Bank, as nearly everyone I've dealt with has been able to communicate in English. But mostly I use the head office branch.

I've no idea about the other countries you mention, as I have no reason to open bank accounts there.

Out of interest, why do you need bank accounts in so many countries?

Yes, I am comparing banking services in Asia as an English-speaking person.

Why so many bank accounts? I use to be a believer in cash and precious metals, but trading miniscule amounts of gold and silver is not practical even though I support the establishment of a non-fiat currency (e.g. Islamic dinar).For me this has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with economics, though I don't support Islamic banking for other reasons.

I have to put my savings somewhere and I like to be able to access it with low fees and not a lot of FXS. So, I open bank accounts wherever I travel and do business. But as I am not a wealthy man I have stopped doing business with the big banks such as Lloyds. Their minimums are too high and they make opening a long song and dance. I would open an HSBC global account but for three reasons...

1. Minimum is USD20,000

2. HSBC has branches in USA so they can extorted by USA, as Switzerland was for stupidly keeping its gold in USA

3. Even their global account (well, certainly my Hang Seng non-global but still multi currency account) is not truly global. Even though I can wire in CHF I can take it out only in HKD.

Still looking for a bank unencumbered by state restrictions, i.e. 'we deal in ANY currency, any amounts, for anybody', an improvement even on the relatively free market banking in Zurich and Douglas a la 1980s. That might be only halawa/hundi and cash. I am not convinced that banking anywhere is an honest business.

So, for me it is practical, political and ethical considerations. I spread my risks between many banks in multiple currencies, in multiple jurisdictions. This can be difficult to manage with the security precautions. One bank has four codes and a device! Gold and banknotes in the safety box us a lot simpler but has its downsides of course.

although i agree with a number of your claims and views here are my two Satangs just for the record:

-Switzerland was not blackmailed because of some gold stored in the U.S. (the zerohedge fairy tale is.......... a fairy tale).

-in Arabic and Farsi the word halawa means "sweet" whereas the "transfer method" is called hawala (trust) quite often wrongly translated as "transfer".

[topt]

OP you mention China - unless you are going to be spending long periods in China the HK accounts should suit I would have thought?

I don't remember having much of an issue opening my account (was a while ago) but the language is a definite issue in any branch here in Guangzhou - may be better in Beijing/Shanghai. Internet banking however works very well and interest rates currently are about the same as Thailand.

[hermespan]

OP you mention China - unless you are going to be spending long periods in China the HK accounts should suit I would have thought?

I don't remember having much of an issue opening my account (was a while ago) but the language is a definite issue in any branch here in Guangzhou - may be better in Beijing/Shanghai. Internet banking however works very well and interest rates currently are about the same as Thailand.

Much appreciated. All I know is that CNY interest rates at Bank of China are among the worst I have ever seen (if memory serves me correctly). Have you tried any microfinancing institutions in China for fixed deposits?

What I liked about Hang Seng in HKG is that to open an account for a foreigner, even at a satellite branch, was not considered strange. It was easy. I would however not say it was fast (but where is these days--so much paper work)

[hermespan]

" Switzerland was not blackmailed because of some gold stored in the U.S. (the zerohedge fairy tale is.......... a fairy tale)."

My Swiss businessman friend tells me differently. At least having assets in the vaults of a foreign country makes that bank vulnerable to pressure would you not agree? Imagine your associate wants something from you. You don't really want to do it. But you have your laptop stored at his house...

"in Arabic and Farsi the word halawa means "sweet" whereas the "transfer method" is called hawala (trust) quite often wrongly translated as "transfer""

Ah, yes... I should have googled for cirrect spelling. I always confuse wheat and sugar confectionary with simpke fubds transfers via the traditional method.

BTW, is hawala legal in Thailand? It seems to have gone underground compared to a decade ago. I don't accept the argument that its vehicle finances terrorism. A 9-11 bomber used conventiinal banking means. And if a bank robber (bless him) uses a taxi, does that make taxis illegitimate? I try to use credit unions, MFIs and casual money transfer systems as much as oosdibke, not so much for good vslue but rather as a deliberate challenge to the banking establishment . Or I am b.s.i'ng you and I just like their better rates.

[topt]

OP you mention China - unless you are going to be spending long periods in China the HK accounts should suit I would have thought?

I don't remember having much of an issue opening my account (was a while ago) but the language is a definite issue in any branch here in Guangzhou - may be better in Beijing/Shanghai. Internet banking however works very well and interest rates currently are about the same as Thailand.

Much appreciated. All I know is that CNY interest rates at Bank of China are among the worst I have ever seen (if memory serves me correctly). Have you tried any microfinancing institutions in China for fixed deposits?

What I liked about Hang Seng in HKG is that to open an account for a foreigner, even at a satellite branch, was not considered strange. It was easy. I would however not say it was fast (but where is these days--so much paper work)

I think it is only low if you are used to Aussie or NZ rates -

3 months - 2.85

6 months - 3.05

1 year - 3.25

2 year - 3.75

3 year - 4.25

5 year - 4.75

From ICBC but I would guess all of them are very similar

No to microfinancing - I would not know where to start for one thing and throw in language.......

[Naam]

hermespan: My Swiss businessman friend tells me differently. At least having assets
in the vaults of a foreign country makes that bank vulnerable to
pressure would you not agree?

your Swiss business man didn't do his homework. it was neither Switzerland nor the Swiss National Bank that was pressured by the Greatest Nation on Earth™. pressured, blackmailed and punished was the Swiss bank UBS for aiding U.S. citizens to evade taxes. UBS paid a fine of 780 million dollars.

a federal judge closing down UBS's business in the U.S. for only a single week would have been much more damaging.

slightly off topic: UBS paid recently another fine of 1.5 billion dollars for taking part in the infamous LIBOR rigging.

[davejones]

What I liked about Hang Seng in HKG is that to open an account for a foreigner, even at a satellite branch, was not considered strange. It was easy. I would however not say it was fast (but where is these days--so much paper work)

Bangkok Bank - it took me a few minutes to open an account there. Just a copy of my passport and an application form to complete. Very simple.

[bangkokburning]

I think you are looking for unicorns and waterfalls of chocolate, especially in this day and age. Double so if you are American.

It's always something, why do you think it's such a profitable business (stealing and rigging aside of course) ?

Thai banks are no interest and full.of fees. Cross rates suck.too.

Cambodia - fine for 10k I guess if you live there. Cambodia is still so dodgy as ypu well.know, can't beleve youd want to sink 100k in the place.

India - macroeconomics and inflation aside. No idea on fees, banks are very solid. Strict banking regs. Easy to open acct if you are American.

You are expecting way too much for small fry retail customer.

[jamhar]

To clarify what might seem an odd practice...

I *am* odd.

But besides that, I am homeless. And like being that way. Renting a real apartment or getting a norma job I feel like I am in prison. Probably a minor form of mental illness, considering my paranoia about conspiracies. But I do have some experience having difficulties with governmental authorities so I have a seasoned skepticism about the rich and especially the powerful.

As I have no idea where I will be in a week let alone six months I like to have my options open--any land border or international airport I pass through (well, at least my favourite countries) I like to have a bank card with local currency in it. Enough to live three months as a refugee. I meet many like-minded expats in Cambodia and India. Thailand has more conventional foreign residents.

But I am simplifying as it is too much work and poor value, squirelling money all over Asia.

Your name isnt "Jack Reacher" by chance?

I've always envied the nomadic life. Maybe i'll pick it up after my daughter gets thru college.

[Naam]

What I liked about Hang Seng in HKG is that to open an account for a foreigner, even at a satellite branch, was not considered strange. It was easy. I would however not say it was fast (but where is these days--so much paper work)

Bangkok Bank - it took me a few minutes to open an account there. Just a copy of my passport and an application form to complete. Very simple.

opening an account with a Thai bank requires minimal efforts. the reason is that they render only minimal services. as simple as that

for the slightest additional service which requires the calorie burning of one spoon/fork of Som Tam the customer has to threaten to draw the big gun.

-sabbath the crap... we would like to have a third ATM card please

-why you want three card?

-that's none of your business

-cannot

-cannot why?

-can only have two card (second lady jumping in)

-says who?

-say bank

-what's our balance?

-moment prease... 8.35 million

-make paper leo leo, bring 8.35m cash and close account!

-whisper... whisper... whisper... (now three ladies)

-now WHAT?

-Mrs interferes "just wait... i think they are working on something"

-more whisper... whisper... whisper... (most probably adding a dozen times "stoopeed Falang")

-um... Khun Falang... can have one more card but...

-but WHAT?

-can only be name you or Mrs name

-that's ok, please go ahead.

[davejones]

What I liked about Hang Seng in HKG is that to open an account for a foreigner, even at a satellite branch, was not considered strange. It was easy. I would however not say it was fast (but where is these days--so much paper work)

Bangkok Bank - it took me a few minutes to open an account there. Just a copy of my passport and an application form to complete. Very simple.

opening an account with a Thai bank requires minimal efforts. the reason is that they render only minimal services. as simple as that

for the slightest additional service which requires the calorie burning of one spoon/fork of Som Tam the customer has to threaten to draw the big gun.

-sabbath the crap... we would like to have a third ATM card please

-why you want three card?

-that's none of your business

-cannot

-cannot why?

-can only have two card (second lady jumping in)

-says who?

-say bank

-what's our balance?

-moment prease... 8.35 million

-make paper leo leo, bring 8.35m cash and close account!

-whisper... whisper... whisper... (now three ladies)

-now WHAT?

-Mrs interferes "just wait... i think they are working on something"

-more whisper... whisper... whisper... (most probably adding a dozen times "stoopeed Falang")

-um... Khun Falang... can have one more card but...

-but WHAT?

-can only be name you or Mrs name

-that's ok, please go ahead.

LOL. I think you'd get a similar response in the UK. There isn't anything I haven't been able to do with my Thai bank account that I can do with my UK bank account. In fact, some things are better. For example, transferring money from UK to Thailand takes 3-7 days, but from Thailand to UK takes 1 day. Thailand bank can transfer money internationally late in the day. In the UK, I haven't found a bank that can transfer abroad after 1pm. If you try, they just hold it until the next day. But that's just my experience. Maybe I haven't needed services that are difficult to get.

[TommoPhysicist]

What I liked about Hang Seng in HKG is that to open an account for a foreigner, even at a satellite branch, was not considered strange. It was easy. I would however not say it was fast (but where is these days--so much paper work)

Bangkok Bank - it took me a few minutes to open an account there. Just a copy of my passport and an application form to complete. Very simple.

opening an account with a Thai bank requires minimal efforts. the reason is that they render only minimal services. as simple as that

for the slightest additional service which requires the calorie burning of one spoon/fork of Som Tam the customer has to threaten to draw the big gun.

-sabbath the crap... we would like to have a third ATM card please

-why you want three card?

-that's none of your business

-cannot

-cannot why?

-can only have two card (second lady jumping in)

-says who?

-say bank

-what's our balance?

-moment prease... 8.35 million

-make paper leo leo, bring 8.35m cash and close account!

-whisper... whisper... whisper... (now three ladies)

-now WHAT?

-Mrs interferes "just wait... i think they are working on something"

-more whisper... whisper... whisper... (most probably adding a dozen times "stoopeed Falang")

-um... Khun Falang... can have one more card but...

-but WHAT?

-can only be name you or Mrs name

-that's ok, please go ahead.

LOL. I think you'd get a similar response in the UK. There isn't anything I haven't been able to do with my Thai bank account that I can do with my UK bank account. In fact, some things are better. For example, transferring money from UK to Thailand takes 3-7 days, but from Thailand to UK takes 1 day. Thailand bank can transfer money internationally late in the day. In the UK, I haven't found a bank that can transfer abroad after 1pm. If you try, they just hold it until the next day. But that's just my experience. Maybe I haven't needed services that are difficult to get.

I've never had a cute bank teller in the UK try to slip me her phone number.

There are some things a Thai bank can do better than in the UK.

[Naam]

What I liked about Hang Seng in HKG is that to open an account for a foreigner, even at a satellite branch, was not considered strange. It was easy. I would however not say it was fast (but where is these days--so much paper work)

Bangkok Bank - it took me a few minutes to open an account there. Just a copy of my passport and an application form to complete. Very simple.

opening an account with a Thai bank requires minimal efforts. the reason is that they render only minimal services. as simple as that

for the slightest additional service which requires the calorie burning of one spoon/fork of Som Tam the customer has to threaten to draw the big gun.

-sabbath the crap... we would like to have a third ATM card please

-why you want three card?

-that's none of your business

-cannot

-cannot why?

-can only have two card (second lady jumping in)

-says who?

-say bank

-what's our balance?

-moment prease... 8.35 million

-make paper leo leo, bring 8.35m cash and close account!

-whisper... whisper... whisper... (now three ladies)

-now WHAT?

-Mrs interferes "just wait... i think they are working on something"

-more whisper... whisper... whisper... (most probably adding a dozen times "stoopeed Falang")

-um... Khun Falang... can have one more card but...

-but WHAT?

-can only be name you or Mrs name

-that's ok, please go ahead.

LOL. I think you'd get a similar response in the UK. There isn't anything I haven't been able to do with my Thai bank account that I can do with my UK bank account. In fact, some things are better. For example, transferring money from UK to Thailand takes 3-7 days, but from Thailand to UK takes 1 day. Thailand bank can transfer money internationally late in the day. In the UK, I haven't found a bank that can transfer abroad after 1pm. If you try, they just hold it until the next day. But that's just my experience. Maybe I haven't needed services that are difficult to get.

as far as i am concerned there isn't anything my Thai bank can do what my bank in Singapore, Germany or Luxembourg can do.

there's only one thing i Thai bank can do faster and more efficient than a bank abroad. and that is (as already mentioned) opening an account and issuing a debit card within minutes.

for the record: opening a full service and unrestricted trading account/portfolio in Singapore with a multinational bank takes nowadays between two and three weeks and requires up to 50 forms to be filled in, signed and/or initialed. some (not all) banks ask those investors who are planning to acquire non-investment grade assets to fill (simply checkmarking) 8 pages of "risk assessment" who's questions are interlinked in a tricky way resulting in many cases the following reaction of the compliance department

"Dear Madame, Dear Sir;

unfortunately your answer to item 6, page 3 does not tally with your answer of item 11, page 8 and the same applies to item bla-bla of page yada yada...

would you therefore please consider to make the necessary amendments enabling us to finalise the compliance procedure.

your truly (stupid),

Compliance Department"

[Time Traveller]

The obvious advantage is Thai bank fees are much less than other countries.

[fletchsmile]

Naam, said:

...as far as i am concerned there isn't anything my Thai bank can do what my bank in Singapore, Germany or Luxembourg can do

Now if you didn't have your starship and a transporter beam Herr Klingon, you'd also find it difficult to walk into your bank in Singapore, Germany and Luxembourg and be greeted by a lovely Thai smile while being physically present in Thailand.

On a personal level I find it difficult to walk into a Singapore, German or Luxembourg bank while being in Thailand. Small convenience occasionally, but a convenience none-the-less

[fletchsmile]

If I didn't live in Thailand, and never had done I probably wouldn't bother opening a bank account, as above they can't really compete with global banks on many things.

As I do live most of my time in Thailand, here are some of the things I like:

> Convenience of being able to walk into the bank and being greeted with a smile to be able to talk face to face on the odd occasion I need to do something in person

> When previously a single guy, a nice place to be greeted by a smile which may lead to a phone number and something a little more

> Easy for my Thai wife to communicate with in her own language if something happens to me.

> Dedicated Relationship Manager (RM) who is very helpful, speaks very good English, and makes up for most of the deficiencies of the bank generally. She knows our family quite well, and I can contact her from anywhere around the world for help, and she'll find a way with faxes or scans, holding back documents until I'm back in country, bank books etc. In short she goes that extra mile and will help with anything etc. It really is a relationship rather than sometimes in the UK or other places it gets lost on the faceless "transactional focus" and/or "efficiency" and/or call centre in a different country.

> Relatively low level of only THB 3mio to attain Priority Banking status to get that dedicated RM. I'm well aware that the mass market don't get the same level of service in Thailand, and can be a nightmare.

> Best rates for converting THB are onshore rates not offshore rates, you get the best rates on THB in Thailand.

> Haven't tried in Thailand myself, as I don't hold foreign currency accounts in Thailand - they are inferior in som many respects. In other countries though, like say Vietnam I find it useful to log onto internet banking and convert instantaneously USD into VND as no swift needed within the same bank in same country. I think that should be available now in some banks

> No capital gains tax or income tax on most unit trusts or mutual funds bought thru the bank

> Avoid most ATM fees if using own bank

> Store of wealth that matches the FX risk for the country I live in, and reducing transaction fees and exchange rate risk.

> Statement from a bank that is accepted by Thai immigration for visa purposes

> Cashback and reward points every time I spend money at certain Thai outlets. Yes many countries do this too. No use to me though if I'm not in their country

> Lot less bankruptcies than the US in the last decade

Fletch

Edited March 8, 2013 by fletchsmile

[davejones]

From all the answers, it seems that the best bank is the one that suits the individual's circumstances.

[hermespan]

What I liked about Hang Seng in HKG is that to open an account for a foreigner, even at a satellite branch, was not considered strange. It was easy. I would however not say it was fast (but where is these days--so much paper work)

Bangkok Bank - it took me a few minutes to open an account there. Just a copy of my passport and an application form to complete. Very simple.

opening an account with a Thai bank requires minimal efforts. the reason is that they render only minimal services. as simple as that

for the slightest additional service which requires the calorie burning of one spoon/fork of Som Tam the customer has to threaten to draw the big gun.

-sabbath the crap... we would like to have a third ATM card please

-why you want three card?

-that's none of your business

-cannot

-cannot why?

-can only have two card (second lady jumping in)

-says who?

-say bank

-what's our balance?

-moment prease... 8.35 million

-make paper leo leo, bring 8.35m cash and close account!

-whisper... whisper... whisper... (now three ladies)

-now WHAT?

-Mrs interferes "just wait... i think they are working on something"

-more whisper... whisper... whisper... (most probably adding a dozen times "stoopeed Falang")

-um... Khun Falang... can have one more card but...

-but WHAT?

-can only be name you or Mrs name

-that's ok, please go ahead.

LOL. I think you'd get a similar response in the UK. There isn't anything I haven't been able to do with my Thai bank account that I can do with my UK bank account. In fact, some things are better. For example, transferring money from UK to Thailand takes 3-7 days, but from Thailand to UK takes 1 day. Thailand bank can transfer money internationally late in the day. In the UK, I haven't found a bank that can transfer abroad after 1pm. If you try, they just hold it until the next day. But that's just my experience. Maybe I haven't needed services that are difficult to get.

as far as i am concerned there isn't anything my Thai bank can do what my bank in Singapore, Germany or Luxembourg can do.

there's only one thing i Thai bank can do faster and more efficient than a bank abroad. and that is (as already mentioned) opening an account and issuing a debit card within minutes.

for the record: opening a full service and unrestricted trading account/portfolio in Singapore with a multinational bank takes nowadays between two and three weeks and requires up to 50 forms to be filled in, signed and/or initialed. some (not all) banks ask those investors who are planning to acquire non-investment grade assets to fill (simply checkmarking) 8 pages of "risk assessment" who's questions are interlinked in a tricky way resulting in many cases the following reaction of the compliance department

"Dear Madame, Dear Sir;

unfortunately your answer to item 6, page 3 does not tally with your answer of item 11, page 8 and the same applies to item bla-bla of page yada yada...

would you therefore please consider to make the necessary amendments enabling us to finalise the compliance procedure.

your truly (stupid),

Compliance Department"

My experience at a very stable Singaporean bank in Singapore 10 months ago, although not exactly the same circumstances and stage of application, was different. The senior investment officer asked if I was an experienced investor or some such (I was *then* but not now, considering mutual funds, what are called something else there--x funds. Anyway, I replied that I had lost 3000 in futures in 1981 in the USA, had lost 1000 in Canada in 1986 in penny mining stocks (I didn't mention losing 3000 in a ponzi scheme in Canada in 2008). He immediately replied that I had enough experience to buy X funds --presumably qualified to lose more money! I do not recall if there are different levels of investor competence (my records speaks for itself), yet they were willing to sell me funds from Aberdeen etc based on my incompetence.

What I will say in addition about this bank that also owns the Post Office bank, is that they did not try to talk me out of a poor choice in foreign currency term deposit either. I wanted to take advantage of the superior returns on AUD, so I intended to take out a three year deposit. First, I had to FXS CAD cash to SGD and deposit it in my account (they would not accept AUD banknotes and the moneychanger might have done a two step conversion anyway, i.e. CAD->SGD->AUD, causing loss--the whole question whether this is necessary or a revenue source, or political rather than financial, is a whole other thread). Anyway, so I lost going in. Then at the last minute he tells me that three year isn't available. I get cold feet, wanting access to my money cause he says the rate fluctuates and for all he knows it'll go up in six months. So, I take out a six month roll over fixed deposit. The rate goes down, damn it. I leave instructions to cash out at the end of two six month terms, converting back into SGD. Result? I about broke even. Nobody at the bank tried to talk me out of wasting my time and money. Their 'financial advisors' are salesmen looking after their bottom line not my interests as a novice customer.

And when I *spend* that money in non-SGD out of Singapore I get dinged two fees, losing even more money.

Still looking for a currency, a financial vehicle and a bank where investing is like mushrooms in manure. Looks like I gotta get a job, the adage that 'it takes money to make money' and 'live on interest' works only if you have millions and the markets are booming.

Don't know what happened--20,000 - 50,000 used to be a lot of money. Now, it's pocket change. Going from zero/3k/pig in shit 10k to 100k+ I am in shock. I am dazzled by five figures that should be considered survival funds. But I am sure that it in seventies I could get 18% on some accounts. Or was it 12? Whatever. A conservative non-investor Swiss mature professional who is not poor tells me that one is fortunate if these days one can get a safe return of 5%, that anything more than that is speculative. And that even being a millionaire is no longer a big deal--it's just a cushion. He cautions me from looking for windfall profits from my little nest egg.

BTW, maybe there is a moral lesson here... Maybe in a just and productive society one *shouldn't* be able to profit handsomely just because one has a little or a lot of gelt, that one is supposed to 'earn by the sweat of one's brow' and contribute by innovation etc. But for now my enquiry is practical rather than philosophical.

Edited March 8, 2013 by hermespan

[OxfordWill]

They ask very few questions and accept answers without asking for much proof. For example I purchased property abroad and strictly speaking I should have paid a high level of tax, but when asked what the money for "Real Estate agent of Foreign Country Inc" was for, I answered "family support" and this was fine- lowest level of fees.

Downside is they may literally just steal your money when they want to.

If you have a good relationship with your thai manager (I didnt at the example point above) they will do a lot of things easily and better for you. You dont feel so much like a mannekin on the conveyor belt of life. Always a trade off! Obviously very wealthy people dont have this problem- but for the majority of us HK etc wont even look at you without a minimum of "success".

Edited March 8, 2013 by OxfordWill

[Naam]

Hermespan:

as far as i am concerned there isn't anything my Thai bank can do what my bank in Singapore, Germany or Luxembourg can do.

yeah right!

you can phone your Thai bank, issue the instructions as specified hereafter and the chap/lady who handles your account will say "yes sir, let me repeat by playing the tape for additional confirmation"

??????

-sell USP7807HAQ85 nominal USD 250k , limit 96.75, instruct trading desk -1 point at their discretion without additional reconfirmation by me.

-transfer EUR 75,000 to our account in Lux (details available with you).

-break AUD 3 months fixed deposit, convert AUD 150k into USD and the remaining 100 into SGD. the last rate you gave me at roll-over is an abomination!

-buy OTC XS0290125391 nominal USD 200k, tell trading desk to ignore Bloomie's ridiculous screen ask, strict limit 61.75, no discretion allowance!

[thaigold]

It never ceases to amaze me. Foreigners complaining about the Thai's inability to speak English - especially the ones who live here. Has anyone of these complainers ever tried to do business in France, outside of metro Paris? Of course not.

The French are uniquely proud of their lack of English speaking abilities ... and make it a point to let the evil English speakers know it, in spades.

i love Thailand ... an island of sanity in an insane world. Problems communicating? Learn Thai, you dorks.

[hermespan]

Perhaps Thai banks are the same as Singaporean banks in looking after their own interests first. After I expressed dismay at the waste of time in taking out a foreign currency CD for less than one year, THEN they advised me the following...

"In Singapore, an AUD fixed deposit makes sense only if you are doing business in AUD.To take out a AUD fixed deposit just for interest does not make sense."

A little too late.

Previously, the same 'advisor' suggested to take out a fixed deposit only if I had reason to believe that the AUD would strengthen against SGD. Giving him credit he did ask how much time I spent in Singapore, but just because I stay with a friend there, take the SMRT etc to Geylang etc, this does not put me in the category of a businessman who has financial interests in Singapore. To me, ALL these places are just hotel rooms and their banks are just safety boxes. All I care about, as with any prostitute, is who gives me the best deal comparing cost with reward, simplicity and time.

Worse than a hooker, no banker took the time to enquire what services I was interested in, whether they could realistically accommodate me, and what the price would be. Wwhat were my financial goals, nations of doing business, where I filed or whether I filed taxes anywhere at all etc in case that would be a consideration. The only question that seemed to interest him was whether I was a US citizen (struck me as odd--Singapore is a sovereign nation and if I run a business, kool-aid stand or bank, I'll do business with whoever I want). It's rather like going to Bangkok's Sukhumvit Soi 78 State sreet, a tlocal's ladyhome street, where 80% of the take-out brothels refused me entry. Americans, or those perceived to be, are trouble.

And I invested well over 10k in the CD. So, at least *I* didn't consider myself a waste of time client. Apparently I am. I sat with him to learn some words of financial wisdom about where to place my first fixed deposit, and he was in a hurry. Actually so was I, I had 20 minutes. Short time indeed. Actually, the comparison of banking with prostitution is very insulting to working girls. My apologies.

Are Thai bankers any more (or any less) interested in the little guy?

[Naam]

It never ceases to amaze me. Foreigners complaining about the Thai's inability to speak English - especially the ones who live here. Has anyone of these complainers ever tried to do business in France, outside of metro Paris? Of course not.

The French are uniquely proud of their lack of English speaking abilities ... and make it a point to let the evil English speakers know it, in spades.

i love Thailand ... an island of sanity in an insane world. Problems communicating? Learn Thai, you dorks.

a true dork is who thinks speaking Thai in a Thai bank will enable that Thai bank to render a bare minimum of banking services which are standard in a remote village located in the African bush.