Thailand As An Electricity Hub

[Soi Sauce]

Can see this happening as Thailand is totally dependent on imported energy.

[OzMick]

Thailand imports electric energy from both Laos and Malaysia and large amounts of gas from Myanmar. I expect that in the near future the Burmese will realise that there is much more money to be made selling electricity than gas, and will become an electricity supplier as well.

FYI gas turbine combined cycle units are relatively cheap, very efficient (~60% energy conversion), require little labour, have almost instant start-up time, and give a quick return of capital. One of the big attractions is that the the gas turbine and generator can be set up quickly and start generating income (if relatively inefficiently) while the exhaust gas boiler is under construction. Once it is built, the exhaust heat is used to make steam to drive a additional steam turbine, doubling efficiency. The quick start capability makes them great for peak load generation when energy prices are maximum.

[I Like Thai]

Now is a good time to buy copper.

Very very soon 100 million cables will be put up on poles all the way to China.

[PaullyW]

Said before that Thai language lacks real sophisticated vocabulary. Well, it has some (all of which comes from Pali and Sanscrit) but 99% of Thais don't learn it or know how to use it. So, now that they have a new word to use "hub", they use it often. No different than the word "chill" that they imported from English. You know the Thais propensity for not really thinking and just reciting verbatim what they hear someone else say. This gross overuse of the word "hub" is a manifestation of this. They are simply excited to use a new word.

Edited March 7, 2013 by PaullyW

[Locationthailand]

No wonder the people keep laughing at Thailand and it's ridiculous statements. The media should realise how pathetic these statements are but I guess arrogance outweighs ignorance.

[Tep]

From the limited information in the original article, I think the Minister is talking about the plan to establish a Regional Power Trade Centre (RPTC) for the Greater Mekong Subregion (GMS) countries to facilitate cross border electricity trade. The GMS Ministers recently signed a Memorandum of Understanding on this issue and the Regional Power Trade Coordination Committee (RPTCC) is calling for submissions from countries interested in hosting the RPTC. Two countries I believe are interested, Thailand and China. It appears that EGAT must have prepared a submission that has now been approved by Cabinet. Discussions on the GMS Power Trade project have been going on since at least 2004. You can see the minutes of the RPTCC meeting since then at http://www.adb.org/countries/gms/sector-activities/energy If the role of hosting the RPTC comes to Thailand, then you might say that the country will be a hub for the coordination of power trade in the GMS region.

[Tep]

Thailand imports electric energy from both Laos and Malaysia and large amounts of gas from Myanmar. I expect that in the near future the Burmese will realise that there is much more money to be made selling electricity than gas, and will become an electricity supplier as well.

FYI gas turbine combined cycle units are relatively cheap, very efficient (~60% energy conversion), require little labour, have almost instant start-up time, and give a quick return of capital. One of the big attractions is that the the gas turbine and generator can be set up quickly and start generating income (if relatively inefficiently) while the exhaust gas boiler is under construction. Once it is built, the exhaust heat is used to make steam to drive a additional steam turbine, doubling efficiency. The quick start capability makes them great for peak load generation when energy prices are maximum.

However, gas provides around 70% of Thailand's fuel mix for power production. It has done so for years and diversifying fuel sources has long been a key priority for Thailand's energy policy. The latest power development plan (PDP 2010 Revision 3) looks at getting this down to about 60% by 2030 mainly through increased imports from neighbouring countries. Gas will continue to dominate because of the shale gas boom and the construction of LNG terminals around the world. I think the government is correct in trying to seek to diversify away from such over-reliance on one fuel source. An active, deep regional market in power trade can benefit Thailand.

[wealth]

In his opening speech at the seminar on "Thailand’s strategy on power grid...

Shouldn't it read "Thailand’s strategy on power greed...??? - always these typos ... 555

[chooka]

The electricity HUB that has grave concerns that there will be no electricity in April.

[OzMick]

Now is a good time to buy copper.

Very very soon 100 million cables will be put up on poles all the way to China.

HV transmission cables are aluminium or aluminium alloy, usually with a steel cable core to carry the weight.

[OzMick]

Thailand imports electric energy from both Laos and Malaysia and large amounts of gas from Myanmar. I expect that in the near future the Burmese will realise that there is much more money to be made selling electricity than gas, and will become an electricity supplier as well.

FYI gas turbine combined cycle units are relatively cheap, very efficient (~60% energy conversion), require little labour, have almost instant start-up time, and give a quick return of capital. One of the big attractions is that the the gas turbine and generator can be set up quickly and start generating income (if relatively inefficiently) while the exhaust gas boiler is under construction. Once it is built, the exhaust heat is used to make steam to drive a additional steam turbine, doubling efficiency. The quick start capability makes them great for peak load generation when energy prices are maximum.

However, gas provides around 70% of Thailand's fuel mix for power production. It has done so for years and diversifying fuel sources has long been a key priority for Thailand's energy policy. The latest power development plan (PDP 2010 Revision 3) looks at getting this down to about 60% by 2030 mainly through increased imports from neighbouring countries. Gas will continue to dominate because of the shale gas boom and the construction of LNG terminals around the world. I think the government is correct in trying to seek to diversify away from such over-reliance on one fuel source. An active, deep regional market in power trade can benefit Thailand.

Buying electricity from Myanmar (when and if they start producing) which would most likely use gas as fuel is hardly fuel diversification. IMHO this is just an excuse to start burning lignite which would be better left in the ground for a few million years. There's probably a few billion baht to be made for someone when they do though.

[R10wota]

Are you #*$^% kidding me?

[samran]

Thailand imports electric energy from both Laos and Malaysia and large amounts of gas from Myanmar. I expect that in the near future the Burmese will realise that there is much more money to be made selling electricity than gas, and will become an electricity supplier as well.

FYI gas turbine combined cycle units are relatively cheap, very efficient (~60% energy conversion), require little labour, have almost instant start-up time, and give a quick return of capital. One of the big attractions is that the the gas turbine and generator can be set up quickly and start generating income (if relatively inefficiently) while the exhaust gas boiler is under construction. Once it is built, the exhaust heat is used to make steam to drive a additional steam turbine, doubling efficiency. The quick start capability makes them great for peak load generation when energy prices are maximum.

However, gas provides around 70% of Thailand's fuel mix for power production. It has done so for years and diversifying fuel sources has long been a key priority for Thailand's energy policy. The latest power development plan (PDP 2010 Revision 3) looks at getting this down to about 60% by 2030 mainly through increased imports from neighbouring countries. Gas will continue to dominate because of the shale gas boom and the construction of LNG terminals around the world. I think the government is correct in trying to seek to diversify away from such over-reliance on one fuel source. An active, deep regional market in power trade can benefit Thailand.

Buying electricity from Myanmar (when and if they start producing) which would most likely use gas as fuel is hardly fuel diversification. IMHO this is just an excuse to start burning lignite which would be better left in the ground for a few million years. There's probably a few billion baht to be made for someone when they do though.

Though having more providers can benefit Thailand via more compeitive pricing. Very few countries in the world acheive energy independence. Most have to rely on others.

Edited March 8, 2013 by samran

[xenix]

Once upon a time, a certain farang taught a Thai PM what "hub" meant....

[patjem]

So, who they gonna supply? Laos, Vietnam & Myanmar planning enough capacity to be able to supply some into Thailand, so Thailand won't be supplying back to them, and each of those countries borders directly to China, whereas Thailand does not. China bulds enough of it's own power plants..... so, Thailand will not be so much as a hub, but merely a customer, reliant on it's neighbours for electicity.

Wow, we salute your ingenuity and optimism! I agree with Ramrod, this has all the hallmarks of a Plodprasop plan.

Whatever next? Power Pledging scheme? 1000 boats increasing waterflow down the river, and profit from the extra hydroelectric power it might produce?

[OzMick]

Thailand imports electric energy from both Laos and Malaysia and large amounts of gas from Myanmar. I expect that in the near future the Burmese will realise that there is much more money to be made selling electricity than gas, and will become an electricity supplier as well.

FYI gas turbine combined cycle units are relatively cheap, very efficient (~60% energy conversion), require little labour, have almost instant start-up time, and give a quick return of capital. One of the big attractions is that the the gas turbine and generator can be set up quickly and start generating income (if relatively inefficiently) while the exhaust gas boiler is under construction. Once it is built, the exhaust heat is used to make steam to drive a additional steam turbine, doubling efficiency. The quick start capability makes them great for peak load generation when energy prices are maximum.

However, gas provides around 70% of Thailand's fuel mix for power production. It has done so for years and diversifying fuel sources has long been a key priority for Thailand's energy policy. The latest power development plan (PDP 2010 Revision 3) looks at getting this down to about 60% by 2030 mainly through increased imports from neighbouring countries. Gas will continue to dominate because of the shale gas boom and the construction of LNG terminals around the world. I think the government is correct in trying to seek to diversify away from such over-reliance on one fuel source. An active, deep regional market in power trade can benefit Thailand.

Buying electricity from Myanmar (when and if they start producing) which would most likely use gas as fuel is hardly fuel diversification. IMHO this is just an excuse to start burning lignite which would be better left in the ground for a few million years. There's probably a few billion baht to be made for someone when they do though.

Though having more providers can benefit Thailand via more compeitive pricing. Very few countries in the world acheive energy independence. Most have to rely on others.

Energy independence? Are we still talking about electricity? Would not a country have to have a surplus before it sold to its neighbours?

BTW I am all in favour of electricity trading/exchange (East-West is best) to cover peak load demand as it occurs in different time zones. The cost of transmission losses is tiny compared to that of keeping spinning reserve which might only be used for only a few minutes each day.

[Tep]

Buying electricity from Myanmar (when and if they start producing) which would most likely use gas as fuel is hardly fuel diversification. IMHO this is just an excuse to start burning lignite which would be better left in the ground for a few million years. There's probably a few billion baht to be made for someone when they do though.

Agree on the issue of diversification, but what are the other options. There is an informal moratorium on new hydro in Thailand, except for small hydro projects sponsored by DEDE. It is unlikely another coal plant will be built here since the 1997 IPP round cancelled both coal plants and we shouldn't even raise the topic of nuclear. Renewables are no short term solution for a diversified fuel mix. So power purchase is basically the last remaining option. However, Myanmar has already rejected the Minister's recent announcement that Thailand will buy 10,000MW from there and they are not approving power projects that involve sale to Thailand or China and are seriously talking about reversing that model of exporting their natural resources. Laos will have increasing difficulties with hydro developments on the Mekong. While lignite is not a good option, at least it is a domestic fuel source and perhaps consumer need to pay a bit more to ensure proper environmental controls are in place and local communities are compensated adequately for past mis-deeds.

[Tep]

Energy independence? Are we still talking about electricity? Would not a country have to have a surplus before it sold to its neighbours?

BTW I am all in favour of electricity trading/exchange (East-West is best) to cover peak load demand as it occurs in different time zones. The cost of transmission losses is tiny compared to that of keeping spinning reserve which might only be used for only a few minutes each day.

Different countries within ASEAN have different load patterns. Conceivably, peak time in neighbouring countries could coincide with surplus periods in Thailand. Until we move to a market mechanism and get rid of the single buyer so we can get proper pricing signals like Critical Peak Pricing, we won't know about this and we can't make good decisions about when it is a good time to use energy efficiency (negawatts), buy from or sell to neighbouring countries or supply domestically.

Perhaps instead of energy independence, the term might be energy security.

Edited March 8, 2013 by Tep

[tartempion]

Hub of fai dab.

[eddie61]

Hub this hub that.

It's the hub of hubs.

Tiring to hear such nonsense.

lets do an official hub count: I try to go back 20 years- please help add the many hububs I missed

Banking and finance

E-commerce

car manufacturing

filmmaking

video game production

rail car production

air travel

aircraft maintenance

telecommunications

food production

ethanol production

international education

printing

medical services

logistics

electricity trading

Ironically, the hub for which Thailand is truly world famous may not be mentioned, for fear the culture ministry will get upset

Edited March 8, 2013 by eddie61

[chooka]

Hub this hub that.

It's the hub of hubs.

Tiring to hear such nonsense.

lets do an official hub count: I try to go back 20 years- please help add the many hububs I missed

Banking and finance

E-commerce

car manufacturing

filmmaking

video game production

rail car production

air travel

aircraft maintenance

telecommunications

food production

ethanol production

international education

printing

medical services

logistics

electricity trading

Ironically, the hub for which Thailand is truly world famous may not be mentioned, for fear the culture ministry will get upset

Kangaroos (maybe this is still in the proposal stage)

Edited March 8, 2013 by chooka

[ggold]

so when they are gonna change the name to Hubland

Thubland maybe?

[Emdog]

You guys are just giving them too much static on this electricity thing! Maybe they should put a "cap" on these "hubs"? Sorry, guess I've just got an axel to grind...

[khunken]

Hub this hub that.

It's the hub of hubs.

Tiring to hear such nonsense.

lets do an official hub count: I try to go back 20 years- please help add the many hububs I missed

Banking and finance

E-commerce

car manufacturing

filmmaking

video game production

rail car production

air travel

aircraft maintenance

telecommunications

food production

ethanol production

international education

printing

medical services

logistics

electricity trading

Ironically, the hub for which Thailand is truly world famous may not be mentioned, for fear the culture ministry will get upset

Kangaroos (maybe this is still in the proposal stage)

Kangaroo courts are well beyond the proposal stage.

[PaullyW]

Hub this hub that.

It's the hub of hubs.

Tiring to hear such nonsense.

lets do an official hub count: I try to go back 20 years- please help add the many hububs I missed

Banking and finance

E-commerce

car manufacturing

filmmaking

video game production

rail car production

air travel

aircraft maintenance

telecommunications

food production

ethanol production

international education

printing

medical services

logistics

electricity trading

Ironically, the hub for which Thailand is truly world famous may not be mentioned, for fear the culture ministry will get upset

Well, I think the first modern one was

R&R hub (cough cough)

[monty]

Well, they're of to a good start, I received a 35000 Baht bill for last month.

Normally average well under 1000!

Been resolved now, lucky I don't pay by direct debit

Wasn't the fault of the bloke doing the meter reading either.

Maybe get their billing back end sorted before they hub it....

[MaxLee]

So, who they gonna supply? Laos, Vietnam & Myanmar planning enough capacity to be able to supply some into Thailand, so Thailand won't be supplying back to them, and each of those countries borders directly to China, whereas Thailand does not. China bulds enough of it's own power plants..... so, Thailand will not be so much as a hub, but merely a customer, reliant on it's neighbours for electicity.

Wow, we salute your ingenuity and optimism! I agree with Ramrod, this has all the hallmarks of a Plodprasop plan.

Whatever next? Power Pledging scheme? 1000 boats increasing waterflow down the river, and profit from the extra hydroelectric power it might produce?

I think we can expect much worst things than a power pledging scheme, the flood plan scheme, the English and education scheme,...

"The brain washing until the point of no return scheme"

Thailand will become the hub of Thai-Chinese-Mafia-corruption-schemes

[Chua]

No further comment

Edited March 8, 2013 by Chua

[PoodMaiDai]

another HUB ?????????????????????????? wow .... Thailand is probably the center of the universe now with all those hubs .

Funny you should say that. May I introduce to you, The Center Of The Universe.

Where is it?

Chiang Mai, Thailand.

Link: http://www.therealcentreoftheuniverse.com/

[Soupdragon]

another HUB ?????????????????????????? wow .... Thailand is probably the center of the universe now with all those hubs .

Funny you should say that. May I introduce to you, The Center Of The Universe.

Where is it?

Chiang Mai, Thailand.

Link: http://www.therealcentreoftheuniverse.com/

As confirmed by the Hubble telescope