wonder6281 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 This will upset the taxi operators, may as well extend the rail to carry heavy haulage to take all the trucks off the motorway as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueLeader Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) I see Thailand is the latest country to be infected by the high-speed-rail madness. If they have to do it, wouldn't it be more plausible to run it down to Surat Thani via Chumpon and Hua Hin? Pattaya is on Bangkok's doorstep and is already over saturated with transport options. A warning though: wherever these projects have been proposed, they've been pushed through regardless of objections and massive budget overrun, often with significant damage to the local environment and economy. Edited March 12, 2013 by RogueLeader 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wpcoe Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I thought that in past discussions it was declared that a high-speed rail would need to be on elevated tracks to avoid street crossings and prevent animals/people/vehicles from access to the tracks at other locations. How can they possibly build an elevated track that distance in five years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprq Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Why? In god's name, why? Or rather, how? Nobody builds high speed rail lines for such a short journey and for just a tourist resort town, unless, of course, they are corrupt b***ards looking to rake off zillions. It's pointless in any practical terms. "According to the Bangkok Post, the government also has plans to extend high-speed train lines to Chiang Mai and Phitsanulok as part of its THB2 trillion infrastructure development initiative." How can you extend something which doesn't exist, as Alice said to the bureaucrat. And, if it ever happens, this would be one line, not two: Phitsanulok is on the way to Chiang Mai. Does anybody at Coconuts Bangkok have critical faculties? Apparently not, they just regurgitate the idiotic spiel that comes their way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laomei Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 As nice as it is to hear that HSR is making it into SEA, isn't this project honestly just a bit retarded? I mean, as far as I can tell, China's in the midst of pushing an HSR route that will link Beijing to Singapore and hit all the countries along the way. Laos and Cambodia are obviously onboard (lol, Cambodia doesn't even have trains), Myanmar is pretty much on board, Vietnam is sorta iffy, but screw em, they can be bypassed. Singapore and Malaysia are on board. Thailand however, can't seem to keep shit straight and dicks around endlessly because boohoo Cambodia, let's <deleted> the entire plan because we don't like them. Make plan, build thing, have nice thing as a result. Is this really so hard to comprehend? The only profit from HSR comes when it can compete with air travel in a mix of price/time/convenience. And the short lines, (Pattaya, seriously?) basically never turn a profit unless there is no existing alternative that is cheap and relatively fast. Money is made hand over fist when you can offer an alternative between a 1 hour flight (surrounded by 3 hours of hassle) and a 10 hour bus ride, while doing it in say, 3 hours and less than the cost of the flight. It also makes sense when you can then shift the passenger trains off the standard rail network, allowing for them to become more efficient for freight, thus reducing logistics cost and allowing for more commercial volume. The short spurs are really just a "nice-to-have" thing that are subsidized by the rest of the system. The China model also takes into account the self-drive costs. Unless you have a car of 5 people, it will cost you more to drive than to take HSR, and for the trains of reasonable travel time, it's always cheaper than all but the most discounted flights. This is not just a happy coincidence. So. This plan is just retarded. Build the main grid, then worry about the nice-to-haves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprq Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I see Thailand is the latest country to be infected by the high-speed-rail madness. If they have to do it, wouldn't it be more plausible to run it down to Surat Thani via Chumpon and Hua Hin? Pattaya is on Bangkok's doorstep and is already over saturated with transport options. A warning though: wherever these projects have been proposed, they've been pushed through regardless of objections and massive budget overrun, often with significant damage to the local environment and economy. Even in Thailand, where mad schemes do get built, I'm sure this one never will be. It's quite obviously an economic non-starter, except to the dimmest of investors, and so will not get the necessary backers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laomei Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I thought that in past discussions it was declared that a high-speed rail would need to be on elevated tracks to avoid street crossings and prevent animals/people/vehicles from access to the tracks at other locations. How can they possibly build an elevated track that distance in five years? Seriously, just let China come in and do it. 5 years tops, and that's only if there's tons and tons of tunneling to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 The government has plans to solicit bids for the proposed rail line beginning this September. Now is the time to invest in a company making "Brown Paper Envelopes", me think... P.S. Just how many 1K notes can you cram in a DL size envelope? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunsetT Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I recall the announcements about a high speed rail connection Bangkok - Rayong in the next 3 years, but that was approximately 10 years ago .......Yes, Just look at what is/was due for completion this year: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcutman Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Bangkok-Pattaya rapid train rail to be completed in 2018 BANGKOK, 12 March 2013 (NNT) - The high-speed train service between Bangkok and the beach city of Pattaya will be completed in 2018, while three other main routes will be finished the following year, according to a senior transport official. Director of the Transport and Traffice Policy and Planning Office Chula Sookmanob said that the Bangkok-Pattaya high-speed train route should be the first to be completed in 2018, while the Bangkok-Hua Hin route, the Bangkok-Nakhon Ratchasima route, and the Bangkok-Phitsanulok route will be finished in 2019. The four high-speed train routes, together with the dual-track railway project and other mass transit rail projects, are expected to cost 1.65 trillion baht. The amount is part of the 2-trillion-baht infrastructure loan bill the government is proposing to parliament at the end of this month. -- NNT 2013-03-12 There has been so much talk about the labor shortage here in Thailand, particularly in the construction industry. Running this many projects at the same time is going to require a mass amount of bodies Thailand might want to reconsider the policy of pushing the Rohingya out to sea, I think they will be needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimay1 Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I recall the announcements about a high speed rail connection Bangkok - Rayong in the next 3 years, but that was approximately 10 years ago .......Yes, Just look at what is/was due for completion this year: It seems the funding dissapeared for some unknown reason. Maybe a secret like the G to G rice scam contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsetBkk Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 We haven't even got a slow speed rail service to the no. 1 tourist island in the Kingdom - Phuket. So we here are held hostage by the bus companies, air companies and taxi mafia. This announcement should've been delayed by a couple of weeks until April 1st and we could all have had a good laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueLeader Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 ...As nice as it is to hear that HSR is making it into SEA, isn't this project honestly just a bit retarded? I mean, as far as I can tell, China's in the midst of pushing an HSR route that will link Beijing to Singapore and hit all the countries along the way.... Thailand are right to resist China's HSR plans. They will own the railway, own the land around it and own the business on that land. Those business and that line will suck commercial activity out of towns from miles around. The Chinese 'favoured commercial enterprises' are doing to SE Asia exactly what The Raj did to India, only they're doing it with massive local support borne of ignorance. Unless SE Asia resist this, they're heading for decades of servitude. That said, I still don't see how Bangkok - Pattaya needs an HSR at all. If they want a test project, they should probably build it somewhere where it'll be useful. Don't forget that although we might want to forget it, China is a repressive, murderous dictatorship. Businesses only operate within China with the express permission of the totalitarian government. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOOD Robin Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I thought pattaya was 120km from Bangkok ..... at 250km/h I think we will need less than one hour to arrive no ? I love Thailand and all those ideas and hub projects ..... unfortunately (or not) none of those projects never come out of the drawer. The plan is for slow travel at both ends there by giving the sexpats time for a short peek at the wonders to come. "the line will carry trains at 250 kilometers an hour, closing the distance between Bangkok and Pattaya in roughly one hour." -- WHAT ???? this railroad monster is gonna "fly" on this SHORT trip !? When he reaches 250km/h he must immediately hit the breaks or he will land in the ocean.... -) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belg Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 why not a visa border run train to cambodia ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcopops Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I thought pattaya was 120km from Bangkok ..... at 250km/h I think we will need less than one hour to arrive no ? I love Thailand and all those ideas and hub projects ..... unfortunately (or not) none of those projects never come out of the drawer. The train would need time to reach that speed and also time to slow down before arrival For such a short journey I doubt if it would even reach top speed It would stop in Pattaya and the passengers would land in Sattahip! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laomei Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 ...As nice as it is to hear that HSR is making it into SEA, isn't this project honestly just a bit retarded? I mean, as far as I can tell, China's in the midst of pushing an HSR route that will link Beijing to Singapore and hit all the countries along the way.... Thailand are right to resist China's HSR plans. They will own the railway, own the land around it and own the business on that land. Those business and that line will suck commercial activity out of towns from miles around. The Chinese 'favoured commercial enterprises' are doing to SE Asia exactly what The Raj did to India, only they're doing it with massive local support borne of ignorance. Unless SE Asia resist this, they're heading for decades of servitude. That said, I still don't see how Bangkok - Pattaya needs an HSR at all. If they want a test project, they should probably build it somewhere where it'll be useful. Don't forget that although we might want to forget it, China is a repressive, murderous dictatorship. Businesses only operate within China with the express permission of the totalitarian government. That's not the structure of the deal at all. At the very most, China seeks joint-ownership of the line. In reality, China deals in terms of providing needed financing that's repaid in desired exports, and/or revenue share. Even the Laos segment has been structured wherein Laos maintains sole ownership of the whole damn thing. SE Asia is mainly on board and the only country that keeps delaying it is fun corrupt old Thailand who whines and bitches every year when a deal nears completion once they figure out that Cambodia might somehow benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khunken Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Land of make believe. In terms of rail-upgrading priorities this must rank close to the bottom. What's far more urgently needed is a rail (medium speed) link between Don Muang & Swampy. Half of it is already there with the rail link &, if they got their finger out, could be built in 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilcopops Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) A train service would be great, logical and green. THey already have a "slow train" but they don't seem to be bothering about completing the second line ....it's already in at Sri Racha and beyond...surely with a relatively minor amount of effort and cash they could put a service in from Bkk central and the airfield - een if it was 2 or 1.5 hours it would take some of the traffic of the grossly overloaded Sukhumvit? Edited March 12, 2013 by wilcopops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorecard Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 WHY? Wouldn't an extension of the airport rail link @160km/h be fast enough for the short journey, and many billions of baht cheaper? And more practical? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwex Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 slightly off topic, but enjoy that view in the photo while it lasts, a thirty story apartment block is soon going to be blocking Pattayas most famous viewpoint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunsetT Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) ...As nice as it is to hear that HSR is making it into SEA, isn't this project honestly just a bit retarded? I mean, as far as I can tell, China's in the midst of pushing an HSR route that will link Beijing to Singapore and hit all the countries along the way.... Thailand are right to resist China's HSR plans. They will own the railway, own the land around it and own the business on that land. Those business and that line will suck commercial activity out of towns from miles around. The Chinese 'favoured commercial enterprises' are doing to SE Asia exactly what The Raj did to India, only they're doing it with massive local support borne of ignorance. Unless SE Asia resist this, they're heading for decades of servitude. That said, I still don't see how Bangkok - Pattaya needs an HSR at all. If they want a test project, they should probably build it somewhere where it'll be useful. >Don't forget that although we might want to forget it, China is a repressive, murderous dictatorship............Just as the Raj was in India! . Businesses only operate within China with the express permission of the totalitarian government. ............And God help us Farang if and when the Chinese go 'On The March'. Edited March 12, 2013 by SunsetT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yawg Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 "Beautiful, wholesome Pattaya" LOL. I've been there and saw an ugly and dirty place, you can't swim there, the water is full of excrement and speeding jet-skis. Any other place in Thailand is better - and safer - IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soi Sauce Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Yeahy right! How long did it take to extend the BTS less than 10 kilometers upto Baring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCFC Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Does anybody at TV watch the Inchannel news? Because this morning they covered this topic. The BKK-Pattaya route is the first to be built. After which comes the HatYai-Chiang Mai route which links up with the Chinese line that passes through northern Myannmar. Though they mentioned the Pattaya route to be complete by 2018, no date was given for the trans-Thailand route. They also said that they would set up a new organisation to manage the HSRs - that is, they don't trust SRT to run it,unsurprisingly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim walker Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 Anything that would help take off some of these buses and minibuses from the road to Pattaya would be a boost for us motorists who like a leisurely drive down from Bangkok not a mad flat out race every time we go down . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunsetT Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 It is rumoured that its not the Chinese but the Russians who are behind this scheme. It was negotiated at the highest level through a top secret deal code named 'Pimp my Prime Minister'. It will run from Swampy to Pattaya and bypass both airport Customs and Immigration....... ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim walker Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 I see Thailand is the latest country to be infected by the high-speed-rail madness. If they have to do it, wouldn't it be more plausible to run it down to Surat Thani via Chumpon and Hua Hin? Pattaya is on Bangkok's doorstep and is already over saturated with transport options. A warning though: wherever these projects have been proposed, they've been pushed through regardless of objections and massive budget overrun, often with significant damage to the local environment and economy. Significant damage to the local environment, the greater majority Thais don’t worry or have the slightest interest / concern regarding the environment, the only thing that concerns most Thais is money and if it cost them any Baht’s then it’s a big worry and a most important problem to be attended to instantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunsetT Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 It is rumoured that its not the Chinese but the Russians who are behind this scheme. It was negotiated at the highest level through a top secret deal code named 'Pimp my Prime Minister'. It will run from Swampy to Pattaya and bypass both airport Customs and Immigration....... ! Its to be named the 'Putin Express'. If you put in a high enough bid you can get anything you want in Thailand............ ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby nz Posted March 12, 2013 Share Posted March 12, 2013 There is of course a rail link to Pattaya and when I was there for a short time I went and had a look at it as an alternative to the bus. The station is a fair way from town, song tau to the main road then about a KM walk or motorcy taxi ride (if you don't value your life) If I remember correctly there is only one train a day each way and it is mostly only used by Thai who cant afford a bus fare. Where a HS service would go I suppose is anyone guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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