Bangkok Riders Horrified By Skytrain Doors Opening Before Station

[EyesWideOpen]

I have a hard time buying this story about a computer malfunction....

I am fairly positive that the door opening system on the Siemens cars

would have an extensive set of interlock systems such that the door

CANNOT be opened unless the train is at the proper spot at the station.

There is not way in the world that the system would be set up in such a way

that the engineer could punch a button any time he wanted and open the doors when the train is not at the station.

I am positive this has to be one of the Chinese cars, a country where the word safety is an alien word... I found it interesting that the BTS in its press release did not indicate which car it was. They may be feeling a bit embarrassed at this point...

In an emergency....why would/should the only official kinda person on board...not be able to immediately open doors for people to escape ??

Hmmmm...good point. :-) Am assuming that the emergency system would be different than the standard platform opening system.

[Thereisnoif]

was this one of the new trains ?

I was wondering the same, but AFAIK the new trains( chinese made) are only on the Silom line, and this happened on the Sukhumvit line

[Commander Tamson]

Lots of posters saying this is the first time such a thing has happened in the 12 years the system has been operating. How do they know this for sure? Maybe it's just the first time someone has tweeted it and thus, suddenly, everyone and their canary knows about it.

And a computer malfunction? - yeah right!!

[EyesWideOpen]

was this one of the new trains ?

I was wondering the same, but AFAIK the new trains( chinese made) are only on the Silom line, and this happened on the Sukhumvit line

From the Paper that Shall not be Named, the story about the BTS says the Chinese cars are on the Silom line..... So much for my theory of faulty Chinese cars... :-) Darn.... So now it appears to be some other error. Which is worse ?? I have a hard time believing the computer error explanation.

So if the computer reboots the train comes to a stop? If the computer has a problem and decides to speed up the train to 150 kph it could go ahead and do it ?? Is the guy on board at the front car running the train or not ? Strange.....

Edited March 13, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[rubl]

was this one of the new trains ?

I was wondering the same, but AFAIK the new trains( chinese made) are only on the Silom line, and this happened on the Sukhumvit line

From the Paper that Shall not be Named, the story about the BTS says the Chinese cars are on the Silom line..... So much for my theory of faulty Chinese cars... :-) Darn.... So now it appears to be some other error. Which is worse ?? I have a hard time believing the computer error explanation.

So if the computer reboots the train comes to a stop? If the computer has a problem and decides to speed up the train to 150 kph it could go ahead and do it ?? Is the guy on board at the front car running the train or not ? Strange.....

I did notice that the old Siemens trains are in use on the Silom line as well. By now with the control system upgraded to allow different management systems and three/four carriage trains the Siemens/Chinese trans should be interchangable. Mind you a train would consist of only Siemens carriages or only the new Chinese carriages.

The picture in the OP is too small to clearly say which train was involved in the mishap, although the left side upper corner might give a clue. Unfortunately I never gave that part of the train much attention

[teatree]

There are new trains on the Sukumvit Line.

[A_Traveller]

Just to note that yes the Chinese Trains are running on the Sukhumvit line and have been for some time. Unfortunately the Twitter images don't show the over the door area which is a key visible difference since the Chinese made cars have the LED progressive maps unlike the older trains.

[GentlemanJim]

As they say in England " Excrement occurs"!

Probably the first time it has happened in 12 years or more of operation.

Like this guy said, it is no big deal in retrospect, it is an isolated incident and has happened once in the history of BTS. So many people on here quick tp jump and blame the hell out of Thai people and Thailand until they are blue in the face or bleeding at the fingertips from typing. And as somebody else mentioned, it says do not lean against the doors or something along those lines anyway. People who sit on the computers day in day out complaining about Thailand make me laugh, what the hell are you going to do about it? Vite, no, write a letter of complaint, highly doubtful, so just move... sheesh,

I don't want to read the rest of the thread, but you were post number 13. The previous 11 posts to yours do not in anyway reflect the rant that you had. Why did you do that? was it just kinda bursting to come out...sheesh.

[EyesWideOpen]

Just to note that yes the Chinese Trains are running on the Sukhumvit line and have been for some time. Unfortunately the Twitter images don't show the over the door area which is a key visible difference since the Chinese made cars have the LED progressive maps unlike the older trains.

The other key difference is that that the Chinese cars have jerky braking coming into the station...... :-) Edited March 14, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[A_Traveller]

True I was tempted to add they are notably nosier, both internally and externally, run less smoothly and already look somewhat sad in their dark corners. Not sure they'll prove to be as long-lived as the originals.

I do recall the tale of how the initial "bidding" group included a large number of engineers who just happened to spend an inordinate amount of time at the rail yards close to the existing rolling stock, but I'm sure that isn't the case.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just to note that yes the Chinese Trains are running on the Sukhumvit line and have been for some time. Unfortunately the Twitter images don't show the over the door area which is a key visible difference since the Chinese made cars have the LED progressive maps unlike the older trains.

The other key difference is that that the Chinese cars have jerky braking coming into the station...... :-)

I've noticed that too... Wasn't sure if it was related to the individual driver, or the CNR railcars... But that seems to regularly happen with the CNR stock, and I don't really ever recall getting that kind of jerkiness with the Siemens stock.

[Commander Tamson]

I don't understand the length of debate between the Chinese & Siemens (German) cars! Surely everyone knows that anything that comes out of China that isn't made under a JV agreement - that is has a western implemented QA/QC system in place - is inevitably a piece of crap.

[youngXpat]

The train’s conductor then took manual control of the vehicle, pulling to a stop and opening the doors well short of the platform.

Ex-bus driver then?

Maybe the conductor needs a refresher course in how to drive a train. Or maybe he needs initial training which seems to be the case.

Are you suggesting the drivers don't have months of pre-training?? Even here, that's really unbelievable.

[Pimay1]

The train’s conductor then took manual control of the vehicle, pulling to a stop and opening the doors well short of the platform.

Ex-bus driver then?

Maybe the conductor needs a refresher course in how to drive a train. Or maybe he needs initial training which seems to be the case.

Are you suggesting the drivers don't have months of pre-training?? Even here, that's really unbelievable.

Thanks for the chuckle

[youngXpat]

Your welcome.

Maybe you are a part of the conspiracy.

[ricklev]

I assumed they never got the computerized system working with the Chinese trains and the drivers were manually positioning the trains, hence the jerky braking. Is that not so?

[Pimay1]

Your welcome.

Maybe you are a part of the conspiracy.

Well you found me out. Guess I'll have to deeper under cover.

[Fookhaht]

This is a not a joke folks. You may think it funny to make light of this, but if you were there next to this door, especially in a crowded car as they often are, you might find yourself face first on the tracks.

And isnt' there a live electric rail down there? Not only face-first, but fried....

[youngXpat]

Your welcome.

Maybe you are a part of the conspiracy.

Well you found me out. Guess I'll have to deeper under cover.

I knew it.

Be careful my friend, walls have ears. 'They' are watching.

[Bagwan]

Extract from the inquiry into the train crash at Ladbroke Grove in 1999.

Problems with driver training

Thames Trains had inherited a driver training package from British Rail, but this had evolved to the point where in Feb 1999, a concerned incoming training manager commissioned an external audit which reported

“The trainers did not appear to be following the training course syllabus and supporting notes as they considered these to be ‘not fit for purpose’ with inappropriate time allowances for some sessions. The traction and introduction to driving section of the course has been extended and the six week route learning session is being used as additional practical handling”.

Indeed Michael Hodder's 16 weeks practical training had been given by a trainer who felt that “I was not there to teach ... the routes. I was totally to teach ... how to drive a Turbo; the training manager was unaware of this. Details of signals which had been repeatedly passed at danger should have been supplied to trainers and passed on to trainees; no trainer had done so, and the practical trainer quoted above was unaware that SN 109 was a multi-SPAD signal.

Testing of trainees was similarly unstructured and unstandardised, with no clear pass/fail criteria.

Under the previous British Railways training regime, trainees would have spent far longer in training and once qualified, were not allowed to drive over the notoriously difficult approach to Paddington until they had at least two years' experience on less complex routes. Hodder had only qualified 13 days earlier; he was ex-Navy with no previous experience as a railway worker, but no special attention was paid to this in either training or testing.

It must be concluded therefore that [the driver’s] training was not adequate for the task for which he was being prepared. The very favourable comments made as to his progress by his various teachers have to be viewed against the background that his teachers were working with a less than perfect training programme.

[Commander Tamson]

This is a not a joke folks. You may think it funny to make light of this, but if you were there next to this door, especially in a crowded car as they often are, you might find yourself face first on the tracks.

And isnt' there a live electric rail down there? Not only face-first, but fried....

Nobody's laughing -- it's just an inevitability in this country. Particularly when it's combined with crap out of China.. Don't be fooled into thinking that this is anything but a 3rd world country.

Eyes wide shut or Eyes wide open!

[Lakegeneve]

On a side note the trains are rumbling whenever they stop at a station. Anybody noticed that?

And for christ sake they want to increase the skytrain fees soon for such a bad service,?

And why do we have to pay 15 Baht extra when we go from and to the new Sukhumvit line stations even though we already paid for 30-50 days trips, in a month those 15 Baht extra would be up to 990 Baht extra...

Overpriced for a bad infrastructure in service...

You pay the 15 baht surcharge as all the BTS exts have been funded by the BMA and then the BTSC has been contracted to run the service. The surcharge is so that the BMA can recoup the nearly 9 billion baht that this ext cost. They decided to use a flat rate model for a period of time until the Bearing-Samut Prakhan ext opens in 2016 (funded by the MRTA as outside BMA city limits)

Metro lines in BKK are a relatively overpriced compared to regional and overseas metros but that is a conscious decision based upon the private concessionaire model that operates in BKK (flawed in my view).

Other pax elsewhere on the BTS might also complain that pax for the On Nut - Bearing ext had nearly 6 months of FREE travel after it opened due to the fact the ext opened 18 months late. However, if it is bad infrastructure in your view then obviously you are able to take another option such as a slow bus along busy Sukhumvit or an expensive taxi.

[Lakegeneve]

Just to note that yes the Chinese Trains are running on the Sukhumvit line and have been for some time. Unfortunately the Twitter images don't show the over the door area which is a key visible difference since the Chinese made cars have the LED progressive maps unlike the older trains.

The other key difference is that that the Chinese cars have jerky braking coming into the station...... :-)

I've noticed that too... Wasn't sure if it was related to the individual driver, or the CNR railcars... But that seems to regularly happen with the CNR stock, and I don't really ever recall getting that kind of jerkiness with the Siemens stock.

After the BTSC placed the order for the CNR 4 car sets in late 08 an engineer stated that there were some metallurgical issues with the manufacturing process of some rolling stock at that CNR plant which can cause train body integrity issues over time.

When the CNR trains arrived they were reportedly found to have malfunctioning doors, speed consistency problems, aircon & other minor issues while they were first being tested by the BTSC in early 2011. The BTSC paid $70m for these sets which was much cheaper than buying Siemens sets.

I am not suggesting that this isolated, minor incident is related to the CNR sets nor that the CNR sets are defective.

However, experts do expect that cheaper rolling stock will have greater maintenance needs over the life of the rolling stock. That assertion seems obvious. BTSC has 5 more CNR sets to be delivered in 2014 for the WWY to Bang Wah ext.

[IMA_FARANG]

In case anyone has forgotten Singapore had similar problems when they started their undergound system some years ago.

But they fixed the problem.

One thing they did was to ban chewing gum from the trains.

That was because chewing gum was getting into the door closing mechanisim tracks, and the doors were not closing completely due to the gum stopping the door closed sensors from working properly because of gum in the door tracks.

The gum was making the door sensors sense the doors were closed fully and locked when they weren't closed all the way.and not properly locked.

It's a common problem in computerised systems ... it's known to programers as "GIGO" or Garbage In Garbage Out.

Edited March 15, 2013 by IMA_FARANG

[Pimay1]

Just to note that yes the Chinese Trains are running on the Sukhumvit line and have been for some time. Unfortunately the Twitter images don't show the over the door area which is a key visible difference since the Chinese made cars have the LED progressive maps unlike the older trains.

The other key difference is that that the Chinese cars have jerky braking coming into the station...... :-)

I've noticed that too... Wasn't sure if it was related to the individual driver, or the CNR railcars... But that seems to regularly happen with the CNR stock, and I don't really ever recall getting that kind of jerkiness with the Siemens stock.

After the BTSC placed the order for the CNR 4 car sets in late 08 an engineer stated that there were some metallurgical issues with the manufacturing process of some rolling stock at that CNR plant which can cause train body integrity issues over time.

When the CNR trains arrived they were reportedly found to have malfunctioning doors, speed consistency problems, aircon & other minor issues while they were first being tested by the BTSC in early 2011. The BTSC paid $70m for these sets which was much cheaper than buying Siemens sets.

I am not suggesting that this isolated, minor incident is related to the CNR sets nor that the CNR sets are defective.

However, experts do expect that cheaper rolling stock will have greater maintenance needs over the life of the rolling stock. That assertion seems obvious. BTSC has 5 more CNR sets to be delivered in 2014 for the WWY to Bang Wah ext.

I would think this is like comparing a Yugo to a BMW..

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

After the BTSC placed the order for the CNR 4 car sets in late 08 an engineer stated that there were some metallurgical issues with the manufacturing process of some rolling stock at that CNR plant which can cause train body integrity issues over time.

When the CNR trains arrived they were reportedly found to have malfunctioning doors, speed consistency problems, aircon & other minor issues while they were first being tested by the BTSC in early 2011. The BTSC paid $70m for these sets which was much cheaper than buying Siemens sets.

Sounds like BTS is buying their rail cars from the same folks who are manufacturing the Android tablets for the Thai school kids...

Or, maybe the Chinese tablet manufacturing company is the one building the rail cars...

Either way, it kind of proves the old adage.... you get what you pay for. Buy cheap trains, and get cheap trains delivered.

Edited March 15, 2013 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Kevin1908]

This sort of thing happens all the time on the underground in London. The idiot driver opens the doors in a station that is closed or worse opens the doors wrong side.
I have even been on a train that pulled out of the station with the doors still open. If in London they can get it wrong why should we expect the Thais to get it right. At least on the Sky Train you can't fall onto an exposed conductor rail.

[lapd]

I trust automation and technology a lot more than I trust a Thai train driver. They lost the connection with the central control but I would assume there are local fail safes as well....or maybe they figured they don't need that??? TIT

Edited April 14, 2013 by lapd

[copa8]

May I guess this happened on one of the recently delivered Chinese trains and not the original Siemens built ones

think your guess is wrong. i thought china delivered high-speed trains, not this type.

like bmw's, after the warranty expires, breakdowns will start creeping up.

[Sayonarax]

Says on the door, DO NOT LEAN AGAINST THE DOORS.

Maybe they wrote that warning for the fun of it..