Anti-government Rally Thread 13-25 March

[lung]

and wait .... and wait ....

[bulmercke]

And wait.....

Come on Thaksin!

You gotta do something soon.

You're keeping the whole country in suspenders.

[Bryan in Isaan]

State of Emergency?

Army takeover ?

Perhaps that is what Thaksin Shinytwat wanted all along ?

Really? Maybe it's Mr. Sondi who has been wishing for such theatrics.

"Media mogul vows ‘it will be my first and last action. I will give my life to the struggle. It will dwarf October 14, 1973’. Media mogul Sondhi Limthongkul yesterday said he was willing to sacrifice his life to lead a “people’s power” uprising to oust Thaksin on February 4 at Sanam Luang. "

quote from thenation January 21, 2006

[seonai]

I am sitting on the edge of my seat here

[bulmercke]

And wait.........

[seonai]

has anyone got an insight into what's happening right now, I mean apart from the speakers?

[britmaveric]

Same Same - lot of hot air coming from their gobs.

[Jai Dee]

Update from The Nation:

Tens of thousands are encamping around his office and key military figures have all but deserted him. Despite warm support in his rural "comfort zones", Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra is looking increasingly isolated by the hours. Check out latest key developments in the unfolding political history on our real-time update.

7:30 pm: Prem tells a press conference in front of his house that those who have caused the worrying situation should work out solution to the conflicts. He asks all involved to think and act to calm down the situation for the sake of the country.

7.00pm: Arrangement is being made for Privy Coucil's Chairman Gen Prem Tinasulanda to have an urgent press conference. It is not clear what the topic is.

5:30 pm: A group of some 30 "doctors and nurses for democracy" from Ramathibodi Hospital join the anti-Thaksin rally in front of Government House.

The group is led by Doctor Yaowanut Khongdan says the dean of the medical school of the hospital allows medical staff of the hospital to express their political stand freely. She says medical staff of the hospital will join the rally after 5 pm everyday. She also submitted 300 signatures who supported demands for Thaksin to step down.

4:14 pm: Nation News Agency reports quoting a Thai Rak Thai source that Thaksin would wait to see the outcome of the April 2 election before deciding whether to go for a break in his politics career.

3:00 pm: Chamlong Srimuang, a decision maker of the People's Alliance for Democracy, says Thaksin has no other choice but resigning.

[bulmercke]

In a nut shell we're seeing the end game played out, and in the last couple of months Thaksin has shown himself to be a very superstitious sort of fellow.

I reckon he's attempting to ride out this period of astrological negativity and bad luck.

But as each hour passes, he's gradually seeing his power base and support erode before his very eyes!

[Jai Dee]

Prem calls for reconciliation

Privy Council President Prem Tinsulanonda Wednesday called on Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his opponents to try to reach reconciliation.

TV evening news reports show Prem as speaking to reporters that all sides in the conflicts should be able to figure out how to normalise the situation and work toward the it.

Source: The Nation - Breaking News - 15 Mar 2006

[baht&sold]

Businesses in the Bangkok's prime areas have lost billions of baht from the continued mass rallies over the past two months, according to Mr. Pornchai Chuenchomlada, a jeweller.

A jeweller? Estimates of total business losses in prime areas (why only in prime areas?) over a two month period is way over the top for your average jeweller expertise.

Why not interview noodle vendors, too.

If you're a business person and desire status quo continuation above all else - erm, for the GREATER benefit of people, business & all (apparently concerned about noodle sellers as well, admirable) I get it. IF so, fair enough. Without a doubt, Thaksin's easily the most 'business friendly' politician, hands down.

Let's concentrate on that aspect then (the longer term business picture). A couple letters caught my eye in the papers today, which speak to longer term visions, which "may" provide a bit of reflection for stronger, longer term stability for the country AND it follows, therefore business (strong institutions, authentic representation/participation, not to mention, an entire 180 change from spoon fed political/cultural paternalism) -

These mere 'things' may be valid to some, IF one's looking beyond today or just what's best for themselves

LETTERS TO THE EDITOR

Thais find their voice amid political turmoil

Having lived, worked and studied for an MBA these past 10 years in Thailand, I have grown accustomed to watching people conduct themselves quietly, with only seldom cases of dissent. Whether I agree or not with what is currently taking place in Thailand is besides the point of this letter. I am completely thrilled to see people throughout the country voicing their opinions, publicly and privately, about the current situation here. Whether or not the government, laws or the people involved change due to the present circumstances, I just feel grateful to have witnessed such an awakening of the people who are saying what they think and feel.

Beyond the facade of the "Land of Smiles" there exists a passionate population in Thailand that really does have much more to offer than smiles. One would be ignorant to believe after this current situation that Thailand or Thais can be taken for granted, to tolerate any circumstance or situation without eventually standing up for their rights.

-----------------------

The suppression of the media by the government is coming to an end

For almost five years every single television and radio channel in Thailand has been ruthlessly and systematically reduced to an inefficient carcass by what once was the country that enjoyed the most liberal press freedom in this part of the world.

Critics were silenced one by one, directly or indirectly, by the concerted efforts of the Communications Ministry, the Public Relations Department, the Interior Ministry and even the police. Accusations and excuses have been given that particular programmes undermined national interests or national security.

The People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), led by Sondhi Limthongkul and Chamlong Srimuang, first rallied on February 13 and got almost no coverage from any of the "free television channels" or the various radio stations across the dial.

This was very unusual because during a fire or natural disaster, there would be continuous coverage, but when more than 100,000 people gathered in Sanam Luang, nothing was reported, as if the event never took place. The following day the story appeared, but with the news outlets saying only a few thousand had gathered to hear Sondhi and the alliance speak.

There was no sound recording of these events offered, as opposed to lengthy tracks of Thaksin and various ministers saying as much as they wanted for as long as they desired.

A dramatic transformation has occurred since then. There is more and more uncensored television coverage and radio reporting on the anti-government activities. Thaksin is complaining about unfair media coverage. This is being echoed by Suranand Vejjajiva, PM's Office minister, who is responsible for the media and the Public Relations Department. We are witnessing a turn of events that is history in the making.

Dr Supong Limtanakool

National Broadcasting Commissioner designate

Bangkok

---------------------------------------------------

"Media mogul vows ‘it will be my first and last action. I will give my life to the struggle. It will dwarf October 14, 1973’. Media mogul Sondhi Limthongkul yesterday said he was willing to sacrifice his life to lead a “people’s power” uprising to oust Thaksin on February 4 at Sanam Luang. "

quote from thenation January 21, 2006

Edit/ I don't have a pony in this race but wouldn't trust another media mogul wannabe scorned either- the underlying evolution at play presently, goes far beyond such ridiculous/theatrical 'self' promoting rhetoric. Some are likely saying, "Sincere thx for the spark Khun Sondhi, you had your Warhol, now please (!!) get the <deleted> off the stage"

[h90]

baht: what my wife told me: the gouverment before Toxin followed the kings business concept, which is of course great. Specialy tax wise.

might be not so good for huge investors but perfect for small one and middle...

But it is second hand, I was not here that time, so it could be wrong....

[Jai Dee]

Update: The Nation - Breaking News

9:15 pm: Deputy Prime Minister Chidchai Vanasatidya says the Thai Rak Thai Party is willing to talk to Thaksin's opponents and the party's legal team is trying to hold a talk. He says the talk will not be a live debate but the team is considering a form of the talk.

[baht&sold]

baht: what my wife told me: the gouverment before Toxin followed the kings business concept, which is of course great. Specialy tax wise.

might be not so good for huge investors but perfect for small one and middle...

But it is second hand, I was not here that time, so it could be wrong....

I wouldn't comment specifically- except to say, I would sincerely wish His Royal Majesty The King, a 60th ascencion gift to reward such amazing, tireless and selfless work: simply this- a knowledge Thailand (and us guests as well) are aspiring to his vision. Best leave it there imho Back to the thread...pls

Edited March 15, 2006 by baht&sold

[h90]

same same.....

The only good ideas I ever heard in thailand was from HM the King. I am an Anarchist but in case of Thailand I LOVE THE KING and sorry he is the only one one who does right.....

All other are bs

baht: what my wife told me: the gouverment before Toxin followed the kings business concept, which is of course great. Specialy tax wise.

might be not so good for huge investors but perfect for small one and middle...

But it is second hand, I was not here that time, so it could be wrong....

I wouldn't comment specifically- except to say, I sincerely would wish His Royal Majesty, a 60th ascencion gift to reward such amazing, tireless and selfless work- a knowledge Thailand is aspiring to his vision. Best leave it there imho Back to the thread...pls

[bulmercke]

"A dramatic transformation has occurred since then. There is more and more uncensored television coverage and radio reporting on the anti-government activities. Thaksin is complaining about unfair media coverage. This is being echoed by Suranand Vejjajiva, PM's Office minister, who is responsible for the media and the Public Relations Department. We are witnessing a turn of events that is history in the making."

The tide is turning with regard to the television coverage of the anti-Thaksin movement - and about time to.

[Plus]

Baht&sold, business people have no reason whatsoever to be afraid of Democrats should they come to power, and there's no streak of nationalism in them either.

They might be more conservative regarding privatisation and free trade deals, but they also don't mix business with politics and let professionals handle the economy.

They have lots of weak points, but being anti-business is not one of them.

[baht&sold]

Struggling here to get back on thread (regardless well intended post h90) Let's get back on track then, PLEASE

Reporting period for Shin deal extended

The Commerce Ministry has lengthened the information-submission period for all parties involved in the Shin Corp Plc takeover to 10 days after the end of the tender-offer period, before coming up with a verdict on whether any have breached the foreign business law by acting as a foreigner's nominee.

The information covers mainly the shareholder list as well as documents that show their payments for the shares.

"We expect to spend another 15 days looking for any breaches of the Alien Business Act BE3542," said Business Development Department director-general Orajit Singhkalavanich.

Today, the Business Development Department will inform Shin Corp, Advanced Info Service Plc, Shin Satellite Plc, ITV Plc, CS Loxinfo Plc, Kularb Kaew Co Ltd and Cedar Holdings Co Ltd of the extended period.

According to Orajit, the documents must be submitted within 10 days of the end of Temasek Holdings' tender offer for Shin Corp shares.

"The investigation will be focused on the shareholders and their payments for the shares, to identify if any is a foreign entity as defined under the law," she said.

The department has sought cooperation from Thailand Securities Depository Co Ltd for the updated versions of shareholders in listed companies. Meanwhile, to investigate the information received earlier, there is a team consisting of lawyers, business registration officials on foreign ownership, and accounting officials.

"This will help us if any of the companies could be defined as a nominee. If Shin Corp still maintains Thai nationality, it means all the companies under its control are Thai as well," Orajit said.

Under the law, being foreign covers an individual who does not hold Thai nationality, a juristic entity not incorporated in Thailand, a juristic entity incorporated in Thailand but owned more than 50 per cent by foreign individuals, or foreign juristic bodies.

Orajit said the department would also investigate in terms of capital investment, technology transfer and their activities in the businesses which require business licences.

Individuals or juristic bodies found to have held shares in a company on behalf of foreigners violate Article 36, an offence punishable by to three years in jail or a penalty of Bt100,000 to Bt1 million, or both.

"The Court is also empowered to terminate their assistance or require them to withdraw their partnership in the Thai company," she said.

For failing to honour such a court order, violators are subject to a daily penalty of Bt10,000 to Bt50,000.

[baht&sold]

Baht&sold, business people have no reason whatsoever to be afraid of Democrats should they come to power, and there's no streak of nationalism in them either.

They might be more conservative regarding privatisation and free trade deals, but they also don't mix business with politics and let professionals handle the economy.

They have lots of weak points, but being anti-business is not one of them.

I really don't want to read your EXACT meaning out of context. Could you kindly re-state, clearly!! (sorry, I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer at the best of times;) Sincere thx Plus.

[Plus]

I don't think there will be any serious calls for assets seizure, most likely people will just let it go if Taksin steps down in peace.

If, however, there's a serious deTRTsation of the country they might eventually try to collect some taxes from him but I don't see any radicals coming to power now.

[Plus]

Could you kindly re-state

Democrats shuffled their feet on NPLs, for example. They put all the burden on the banks to sort it out themselves.

TRT boldly transferred all the bad loans to specially established public entity. Big corporations instantly posted huge profits and got listed or came out of rehabilitation and become prosperous. Was is good for the "greater good"?

We don't know what happened to the loans themselves. TRT is strangely quiet on the subject, but they are also quiet on their Village Funds or Ua-Artorn, or any follow ups on any other projects.

No one knows the true extent of what Taksin has done with the economy. Let's just wait and see - lots of ugly stuff might surface in the coming months, or it might not.

I don't see Democrats running aroung bartering chickens for fighter jets, but CP might be a bit disappointed. Soft loans to Burma so that AIS can get Burmese contracts are also out of question, but AIS might be a bit disappointed too.

Democrats will not bail out big companies with public money, all for the "greater good", whatever it is.

On the plus side, everyone will have a fairer shot at government contracts, for example, and taxes won't be adjusted every year to accomodate whoever is in the Cabinet at the moment.

I don't know if it makes it any clearer. Time to sleep.

Good night.

[baht&sold]

I don't think there will be any serious calls for assets seizure, most likely people will just let it go if Taksin steps down in peace.

If, however, there's a serious deTRTsation of the country they might eventually try to collect some taxes from him but I don't see any radicals coming to power now.

Thx Plus, previous post first:

I trust the Dems, Sondhi, left leaning unionists & 'state jobs for life' entitlement types about as much as I'd trust the Thaksin Love Thaksin (TRT) party (just look at the past state of the buyability of watchdog institutions, special interests, nepotism and collusion).

The strengthening of the very institutions of democracy (therefore, stable business and livelihood of all, foreigners included) is Thailand's watershed opportunity here. THAT is what it's about imho and as long as it remains peaceful, I say, GO FOR IT THAILAND!!

In fact, no matter what happens, after the dust settles, Thailand stands to (possibly) gain a leap year or several along that democratic path. Without the present day protest and "business inconvenience" (if one wishes to break it down as such) it would take <deleted> YEARS to spark. IOW's, it's all good, particularily to see the middle class mom's pop's n families taking part increasingly.

Having acknowledged the BKK middle classes refreshing and recent departure from apathy and usual flight of fancy with anyone appearing "HI SO", the REAL "voter basket' (Isaan) is an entirely different matter. They've been pandered to, bought outright, or made to feel dependent, but ultimately USED, as mere flesh on the bone head count votes (and they either don't know, or don't give a ######). I don't blame 'em. Who the <deleted> has ever really courted them before the "wise men" strategists from the TRT came along???? (a bit like Karl Rove behind the republican party in tnhe states bit I'll save that for a private bedlam rant with Boon Mee and Butterfly;)

NEXT, you're above quote- probably there WILL be a feeling of unrequited retribution wanting to be vetted by "other" influential people and even more vested concerns APRES TRT but they'd be missing the point- Thaksin did NOTHING Illegal under the CURRENT laws and constitution- THATS where attention SHOULD be turned to, strengthing institutions, laws, ensuring authentic participation by the electorate etc, or this all would amlount to a lost opportunity.

(again, i'm just an outsider looking in tho)

EDIT!!! I just posted this and saw your most recent (and thoughtful) post above. Yep,I'm tired as well, but enjoyed sharing the views and let's take this up another time then.

G'nite

Edited March 15, 2006 by baht&sold

[penzman]

The PAD rally developments so far today:

12:49 pm: Manager Online reports quoting Somchai Jitsuchon, director of Thailand Development Research Institute, as recommending Thaksin to have a political break. Somchai says if Thaksin resumes the prime minister post after the April 2 election, he will not have full mandate and it could affect the country's economy. But if Thaksin skips politics for now, the next government could continue Thai Rak Thai's economic policies.

They just don't get it do they?

"A dramatic transformation has occurred since then. There is more and more uncensored television coverage and radio reporting on the anti-government activities. Thaksin is complaining about unfair media coverage. This is being echoed by Suranand Vejjajiva, PM's Office minister, who is responsible for the media and the Public Relations Department. We are witnessing a turn of events that is history in the making."

The tide is turning with regard to the television coverage of the anti-Thaksin movement - and about time to.

Complaining about unfair media coverage.

He who used to pull the plug on the media

Since he's into black magic, he could always stay home and give telepathy a try for his election campaign.

Edited March 15, 2006 by penzman

[britmaveric]

Opposition is into black arts too... yesterday they had all the women rubbing their crotches with Thaksin photos.

[lukamar]

Opposition is into black arts too... yesterday they had all the women rubbing their crotches with Thaksin photos.

I have found the whole situation hilariously ironic from both sides. When I was telling my wife about the incident you mention about the pictures, she said "It's Thailand." and walked away laughing.

Both sides seem to be taking no chances, the same way we "knock on wood" or "throw salt" over our shoulder. As non Thai, we forget that Thai culture is steeped in tradition, long standing beliefs and ancient mythology, that we will never completely understand. Thai's have had these beliefs handed down to them since they were young children, like our nursery rhymes. It's not that these beliefs make them crazy, but it is one of the things that make them uniquely Thai.

[Boon Mee]

Thaksin has been great for the economy. Under his premiership, he has introduced mega-infrastructure projects, which often are tied to politicians of the ruling government. If a new government is formed by the Democrats (an opposition party), for example, they might want to review the projects so they can get their cut, putting into jeopardy the status of these projects.

This whole Thai situation right now is particularly fascinating because you're actually seeing the political minority protest against the majority (Thaksin's party has a very strong majority in parliament). There's a very clear urban and rural split, with the former supporting the minority opposition and the latter supporting Thaksin. The biggest problem is what happens if Thaksin is forced to step down when the majority of people actually support him!

As much as this whole thing has to do with democracy and accountability, it stemmed from a feud between Sondhi and Thaksin who cut Sondhi out of lucrative government business concessions. People are rightly angered by Thaksin's ownership links to a large entity like Shinawatra Corp; his heavy-handed marginalizing of government agencies or committees like the anti-corruption committee, which became a total ineffective rubber-stamp; and his brash running of government agencies, like the government TV channels and media, as though they were his own business fiefdoms. But that's how prime ministers did things anyways and Thaksin is no different in that respect.

This is a confrontation that has as much to do with the opposition parties getting frustrated at being left out of government-related businesses and concessions that Thaksin's people are controlling. On the economic front, Thaksin has done a remarkable job. Under his leadership Thailand paid all its debts to the IMF and the economy fully recovered from the 1997 collapse of the whole Thai financial system.

Progress on the political front, however, has been very slow. Political expectations were very high following the bloody 1992 massacre of student protesters by the army led by Suchinda Krapayoon, when the King finally stepped in and brokered peace. No longer could the public from that point brook any more military-led coups or blatant abuse of power, so a new anti-corruption committee was set up to correct the abuses but nothing really happened. The government also put tighter controls on the media, which was anathema to the new public feeling for more openess and freedom of expression. Thaksin's mingling with the ITV channel is a classic example of government-led corporate entities taking over the channel and stifling press coverage.

So, it's a combination of these factors that have led the minority-oppositionists to rebel against a leader that has ironically never enjoyed so much majority popularity coming from the rural areas. For the first time since 1992, the King again has intervened in a political situation and it will be very interesting to see how things will be resolved. One thing is sure, the military will not be the force that takes over the country to bring upon stability as Suchinda did last time in a peaceful coup in 1991. That coup occurred when corruption was totally getting out of hand with the Chatichai government. Chatichai was great for business and he was responsible for the new Indochina battlefields to business/investment policy, but those days were like the Wild West and led to the overheating of the economy, setting the stage for 1997.

Now, we are going to see a new change that will have to peacefully be worked out between the political parties, which is kind of unprecedented. Another interesting facet to this story is how, for the first time, Thailand has had such a hard-driving, market-oriented, no-nonsense CEO-type leader, which has rubbed people, used to doing things the old way, the wrong way. Chatichai was supposed to be the first such CEO premier, later followed by caretaker premier Anand, but no person comes close to Thaksin in terms of better yielding results and driving the economy.

Link

[sriracha john]

Opposition is into black arts too... yesterday they had all the women rubbing their crotches with Thaksin photos.

Not as whacked out as his magic elephant wand... particularly if it's that "time of month" for them....and besides, I wipe my a$$ with his picture all the time with the novelty toilet paper I found.

Edited March 15, 2006 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

I should add that this is an old American custom, but apparently it worked well because by using toilet paper with Richard Nixon's face on it, it successfully prompted his resignation.

[lukamar]

Opposition is into black arts too... yesterday they had all the women rubbing their crotches with Thaksin photos.

Not as whacked out as his magic elephant wand... particularly if it's that "time of month" for them....and besides, I wipe my a$$ with his picture all the time with the novelty toilet paper I found.

The Magic Chang Pictures. While most of us got the concept, it is the Northern people that got the ancient symbolism and meaning of this photo-op. Thaksin has gained many voters from the Northern communities with his actions with the elephant, visits to temples, prayers and other things he is criticized in the urban areas for. One of the things that you cannot ever do is to underestimate your enemies strengths and weaknesses, the PDA have defiantly underestimated Thaksins strength, especially in the north.

Sun Tsu - An army may march great distances without distress, if it marches through country where the enemy is not.

By protesting in Bkk only, the PDA have basically given the rest of the country and the majority of the population to Thaksin unopposed.

[sriracha john]

Opposition is into black arts too... yesterday they had all the women rubbing their crotches with Thaksin photos.

Not as whacked out as his magic elephant wand... particularly if it's that "time of month" for them....and besides, I wipe my a$$ with his picture all the time with the novelty toilet paper I found.

Thaksin has gained many voters from the Northern communities with his actions with the elephant, visits to temples, prayers and other things he is criticized in the urban areas for.

I'd venture to guess that the billions and billions of government baht for projects in his own Northern communities went much further in gaining the approval of their "homeboy."

One of the things that you cannot ever do is to underestimate your enemies strengths and weaknesses, the PDA have defiantly underestimated Thaksins strength, especially in the north.

If anyone has underestimated their foe's strengths, it's Thaksin. He figured he could just go merrily right along unfettered and unquestioned, even after issuing such asinine remarks as "if you don't vote for TRT, your province won't get any government money," (or words to that effect), or any of the other hundreds of issues raised by people from ALL over Thailand that are seeking his ouster.

Sun Tsu - An army may march great distances without distress, if it marches through country where the enemy is not.

By protesting in Bkk only, the PDA have basically given the rest of the country and the majority of the population to Thaksin unopposed.

If you read anything about the rallies, you'll have read that protesters in Bangkok have travelled there from ALL over Thailand.