Rental Deposit (Again)

[007]

Situation: landlord cancels contract, wants me and Thai partner to move out on the 15th. Anticipating that deposit not being returned by this landlord, I withhold rent and utilities* (*from last month). On the 15th move out, but big trouble with security and landlord. They want us to pay for the full(!) month, plus utilities. They actually owe us money. Calls for police; Thai partner forced to pay while I'm away. (She signed the contract.)

Is this "legal": full rent for 15 days. No return of deposit. Threatening tenant with police... How to handle the situation, and get the remaining amount of deposit back?

[robblok]

Check if its enough money to get a lawyer involved, other then that I doubt you can do a thing. Maybe just the sight or call of a lawyer will help. Not sure if they work for part of the sum to be collected.

[aussiebebe]

as robblok wrote, your Thai partner can contact a local lawyer who will assist - easily found online or with the yellow pages. Fees will be reasonable - they won't turn down 10k just to come along to the rented property and speak with the landlord about the contract. It's a civil matter so the police shouldn't be involved but many landlords threaten anyway.

[NanLaew]

Why did the OP 'anticipate' the loss of deposit? What did the rental contract say in regard to early termination by either party and any forfeit of the deposit?

Did the OP seriously expect the landlord to let them walk out on the 15th whilst contractually still owing the rent and utilities withheld by the OP because he 'anticipated' losing the deposit? Was this 'anticipation' based on the fact that the OP and his partner had been less than perfect tenants and there was some damage and repairs that they were ultimately going to be held responsible for, ie. lose their deposit anyway?

Edited March 16, 2013 by NanLaew

[cms989]

You have to pay rent. The deposit is a separate issue that you can deal with should it become an issue (which it has not yet). Your agreement did not allow you to hold hostage your rent in return for your deposit.

Sorry I feel for you getting screwed over but you can't break your part of the contract.

[isawasnake]

You have to pay rent. The deposit is a separate issue that you can deal with should it become an issue (which it has not yet). Your agreement did not allow you to hold hostage your rent in return for your deposit.

Sorry I feel for you getting screwed over but you can't break your part of the contract.

I agree with you for the most part, but if you do follow the contract, if gives the landlord free reign to do as he sees fit. And you can't dispute it. It is total bs. I know you enter into the agreement knowing all this, but I think those agreements assume reasonable landlords, which many aren't. The default position for many landlords is to dock the deposit even when the place is perfect; make make up reasons out of thin air.

[cms989]

You have to pay rent. The deposit is a separate issue that you can deal with should it become an issue (which it has not yet). Your agreement did not allow you to hold hostage your rent in return for your deposit.

Sorry I feel for you getting screwed over but you can't break your part of the contract.

I agree with you for the most part, but if you do follow the contract, if gives the landlord free reign to do as he sees fit. And you can't dispute it. It is total bs. I know you enter into the agreement knowing all this, but I think those agreements assume reasonable landlords, which many aren't. The default position for many landlords is to dock the deposit even when the place is perfect; make make up reasons out of thin air.

Don't get me wrong I know a renter is often in a bad position and its common practice (in Western countries, too) to get screwed out of your deposit for BS reasons.

Having been in these situation myself, though, and walking through the options.. it comes down to this. You are a renter. The entire arrangement is that you pay money to stay somewhere. The moment you stop paying to stay there your rights are nil. It's their propert and you aren't paying the be there what more do you expect?

[Potosi]

I have avoided deposits by paying the yearly lease in advance for quite a number of years. Always with farang landlords, I don't rent from Thais. Never had additional claims from my landlords, while Thais believe they can refurbish and renovate on the expense of the tenant. Only most recently I paid deposit for a house that was so cheap in rent that I don't care to get the deposit back.

[Bluenose BKK]

Why did the OP 'anticipate' the loss of deposit? What did the rental contract say in regard to early termination by either party and any forfeit of the deposit?

Did the OP seriously expect the landlord to let them walk out on the 15th whilst contractually still owing the rent and utilities withheld by the OP because he 'anticipated' losing the deposit? Was this 'anticipation' based on the fact that the OP and his partner had been less than perfect tenants and there was some damage and repairs that they were ultimately going to be held responsible for, ie. lose their deposit anyway?

Have you ever been to Asia?

[isawasnake]

You have to pay rent. The deposit is a separate issue that you can deal with should it become an issue (which it has not yet). Your agreement did not allow you to hold hostage your rent in return for your deposit.

Sorry I feel for you getting screwed over but you can't break your part of the contract.

I agree with you for the most part, but if you do follow the contract, if gives the landlord free reign to do as he sees fit. And you can't dispute it. It is total bs. I know you enter into the agreement knowing all this, but I think those agreements assume reasonable landlords, which many aren't. The default position for many landlords is to dock the deposit even when the place is perfect; make make up reasons out of thin air.

Don't get me wrong I know a renter is often in a bad position and its common practice (in Western countries, too) to get screwed out of your deposit for BS reasons.

Having been in these situation myself, though, and walking through the options.. it comes down to this. You are a renter. The entire arrangement is that you pay money to stay somewhere. The moment you stop paying to stay there your rights are nil. It's their propert and you aren't paying the be there what more do you expect?

I expect things like when a pipe breaks and needs to be replaced, that I don't have to pay for the pipe myself. If you have never had this in Thailand, you are lucky. These landlords literally think it is the renters responsibility to pay for upkeep. It is totally ridiculous. I have always thought one of the only ways to handle ridiculousness is to act ridiculous yourself.

[NoshowJones]

Check if its enough money to get a lawyer involved, other then that I doubt you can do a thing. Maybe just the sight or call of a lawyer will help. Not sure if they work for part of the sum to be collected.

I have lived in a rented apartment six times in Thailand, only once have I had my deposit returned without any hassle, and once after some hassle, the other four times I lost out.

[NoshowJones]

Why did the OP 'anticipate' the loss of deposit? What did the rental contract say in regard to early termination by either party and any forfeit of the deposit?

Did the OP seriously expect the landlord to let them walk out on the 15th whilst contractually still owing the rent and utilities withheld by the OP because he 'anticipated' losing the deposit? Was this 'anticipation' based on the fact that the OP and his partner had been less than perfect tenants and there was some damage and repairs that they were ultimately going to be held responsible for, ie. lose their deposit anyway?

I would say the OP anticipated the loss of deposit because TIT.

[Metapod]

Why did the OP 'anticipate' the loss of deposit? What did the rental contract say in regard to early termination by either party and any forfeit of the deposit?

Did the OP seriously expect the landlord to let them walk out on the 15th whilst contractually still owing the rent and utilities withheld by the OP because he 'anticipated' losing the deposit? Was this 'anticipation' based on the fact that the OP and his partner had been less than perfect tenants and there was some damage and repairs that they were ultimately going to be held responsible for, ie. lose their deposit anyway?

I would say the OP anticipated the loss of deposit because TIT.

I have always got my deposit back.

Maybe the thread starter is just a shitty tenant?

Why else would she cancel your contract and refuse to refund deposit?

[NanLaew]

Why did the OP 'anticipate' the loss of deposit? What did the rental contract say in regard to early termination by either party and any forfeit of the deposit?

Did the OP seriously expect the landlord to let them walk out on the 15th whilst contractually still owing the rent and utilities withheld by the OP because he 'anticipated' losing the deposit? Was this 'anticipation' based on the fact that the OP and his partner had been less than perfect tenants and there was some damage and repairs that they were ultimately going to be held responsible for, ie. lose their deposit anyway?

Have you ever been to Asia?

If you need to know... nan laew!

[NanLaew]

You have to pay rent. The deposit is a separate issue that you can deal with should it become an issue (which it has not yet). Your agreement did not allow you to hold hostage your rent in return for your deposit.

Sorry I feel for you getting screwed over but you can't break your part of the contract.

I agree with you for the most part, but if you do follow the contract, if gives the landlord free reign to do as he sees fit. And you can't dispute it. It is total bs. I know you enter into the agreement knowing all this, but I think those agreements assume reasonable landlords, which many aren't. The default position for many landlords is to dock the deposit even when the place is perfect; make make up reasons out of thin air.

Don't get me wrong I know a renter is often in a bad position and its common practice (in Western countries, too) to get screwed out of your deposit for BS reasons.

Having been in these situation myself, though, and walking through the options.. it comes down to this. You are a renter. The entire arrangement is that you pay money to stay somewhere. The moment you stop paying to stay there your rights are nil. It's their propert and you aren't paying the be there what more do you expect?

I expect things like when a pipe breaks and needs to be replaced, that I don't have to pay for the pipe myself. If you have never had this in Thailand, you are lucky. These landlords literally think it is the renters responsibility to pay for upkeep. It is totally ridiculous. I have always thought one of the only ways to handle ridiculousness is to act ridiculous yourself.

By the same token, there are tenants that call the landlord at 10 o'clock at night to tell them that the bulb has gone out in the bedside light and they can't read anymore. Or a pipe bursts in the shitty plumbing during the night but the tenant hasn't the sense to turn off the water main until the landlord comes and the house is already flooded.

I have only had two house rentals in Thailand, the first was from an expat and friend who benefited to the order of 50000+ baht in home improvements as the signed agreement listed any home improvements agreed to by both parties and paid for by tenant will be reimbursed at cost. My buddy was working in the mid-east so this worked well for him. The second (current) one is a Thai landlord (a teacher) and we have agreed that I will have the house completely repainted at my cost and the 2-month deposit will be returned in full. I think I will make about 12000 baht off that deal! I will also get the aircons serviced and make sure all the light bulbs and locks work, ie. I will leave the house in the same condition it was when I moved in. While in this house, I have already repaired the water pump (replaced all the seals for about 400 baht) and replaced a burned out switch on the oven hood (about 300 baht), saved the landlord about 10000 baht by not completely replacing these items. The landlord says, like my buddy, that he will miss us!

Edited March 17, 2013 by NanLaew

[MrHammer]

You have to pay rent. The deposit is a separate issue that you can deal with should it become an issue (which it has not yet). Your agreement did not allow you to hold hostage your rent in return for your deposit.

Sorry I feel for you getting screwed over but you can't break your part of the contract.

I agree with you for the most part, but if you do follow the contract, if gives the landlord free reign to do as he sees fit. And you can't dispute it. It is total bs. I know you enter into the agreement knowing all this, but I think those agreements assume reasonable landlords, which many aren't. The default position for many landlords is to dock the deposit even when the place is perfect; make make up reasons out of thin air.

This is not default and has never happened to me. Read the contract, take photos, don't destroy things and you will be fine.

[robblok]

I also rented once, no problems at all but im sure it happens a lot.

But when you are witholding the payment to get your deposit back your breaking the contract first. If you wait and he is not giving it back he is breaking the contract.

Problem is getting it back if you got a bad landlord, however assuming you have one and your not paying rent to get the deposit back they are right to kick you out as you are breaking the contract.

Either way its bad you just have to decide what is better for you. Personally i just pay and see what happens instead of assuming the worst.

[isawasnake]

You have to pay rent. The deposit is a separate issue that you can deal with should it become an issue (which it has not yet). Your agreement did not allow you to hold hostage your rent in return for your deposit.

Sorry I feel for you getting screwed over but you can't break your part of the contract.

I agree with you for the most part, but if you do follow the contract, if gives the landlord free reign to do as he sees fit. And you can't dispute it. It is total bs. I know you enter into the agreement knowing all this, but I think those agreements assume reasonable landlords, which many aren't. The default position for many landlords is to dock the deposit even when the place is perfect; make make up reasons out of thin air.

This is not default and has never happened to me. Read the contract, take photos, don't destroy things and you will be fine.

Get a clue. You can do all those things here and not be "fine."

[Neeranam]

I have avoided deposits by paying the yearly lease in advance for quite a number of years. Always with farang landlords, I don't rent from Thais. Never had additional claims from my landlords, while Thais believe they can refurbish and renovate on the expense of the tenant. Only most recently I paid deposit for a house that was so cheap in rent that I don't care to get the deposit back.

Surely there are not many houses with farang landlord, as tgey cant own them?

[Bluenose BKK]

You have to pay rent. The deposit is a separate issue that you can deal with should it become an issue (which it has not yet). Your agreement did not allow you to hold hostage your rent in return for your deposit.

Sorry I feel for you getting screwed over but you can't break your part of the contract.

I agree with you for the most part, but if you do follow the contract, if gives the landlord free reign to do as he sees fit. And you can't dispute it. It is total bs. I know you enter into the agreement knowing all this, but I think those agreements assume reasonable landlords, which many aren't. The default position for many landlords is to dock the deposit even when the place is perfect; make make up reasons out of thin air.

This is not default and has never happened to me. Read the contract, take photos, don't destroy things and you will be fine.

Get a clue. You can do all those things here and not be "fine."

I've done all these things and never been "fine" in every major resort in Thailand,plus The Philippines and Bali,Indonesia!

[flashysite]

Depends on why landlord had canceled contract...was there an argument? Or violate any rule?

If none of those above then u shud get your deposit back.

[MrHammer]

I must be remarkably lucky then with 4 different leases of lenghts 3-12 months. Apparantly, this kind of luck is very uncommon. Perhaps I am just a better judge of character and don't rent from farangs. Only Thais and only Thais who speak proper English and show a genuine interest in a mutual beneficial relationship. I also don't get taken for rides by taxis or overcharged by motocys. Maybe I am delusional or could it be that the way you present yourself and the respect you show others pay off?

When dealing with people, it always pays to get to know them a bit before making a business decision. You know, the Asian way.

[NanLaew]

I have avoided deposits by paying the yearly lease in advance for quite a number of years. Always with farang landlords, I don't rent from Thais. Never had additional claims from my landlords, while Thais believe they can refurbish and renovate on the expense of the tenant. Only most recently I paid deposit for a house that was so cheap in rent that I don't care to get the deposit back.

Surely there are not many houses with farang landlord, as tgey cant own them?

Come on Neeranam... 8000+ posts and you are unaware that foreigners CAN own houses? They just can't own the land they stand on.

[FunFon]

I never had a problem with the deposit or the landlord taking care of maintenance when I was paying normal-for-expat outrageously-high-by-common-Thai-standard rents.

Since I've been paying normal-for-Thai incredibly-cheap-for-me rent, three different places over about seven years now, I realize that I'm responsible for repairs - other than outside water coming in or electric problems from the circuit-box out, which I get them to explicitly acknowledge they'll take care of promptly - I've accepted responsibility for maintaining the property and the deductions from the deposit have all been acceptable.

I think the key is being a reasonable tenant and not expecting more than what's normal here - not according to nanny-state expectations from back home.

[TommoPhysicist]

Send all your rental receipts to the local tax office.

Landlord, who almost certainly didn't pay the income tax on the rental, will be charged for 5 years back tax ........ at 15%.

Doesn't get your deposit back, but hurts him.

Edited March 18, 2013 by TommoPhysicist

[soi41]

Send all your rental receipts to the local tax office.

Landlord, who almost certainly didn't pay the income tax on the rental, will be charged for 5 years back tax ........ at 15%.

Doesn't get your deposit back, but hurts him.

Tommo, we all appreciate you sharing your wisdom with us But at least get the numbers right, tax on income from rental properties is 12,5%.

[FunFon]

ermm. . . nothing for me to gain, only causing another harm, and possibly giving them reason to get back at you, maybe down the road in ways you won't even know where your "bad luck" came from? Not me, no thanks.

I honestly believe that what goes around comes, or you reap what you sow, whatever, and I try to avoid being the agent for others' suffering, especially as consequences for their acts that have harmed me.

They'll get theirs soon enough, I don't need to be involved. . .

[norrona]

I have property managed in Thailand on behalf of owners and all I can say is the times I have gone to check someone out of their apartment/house and they said 'we have paid everything up to date, telephone bill, electric etc' that when you do the check and they haven't then start acting all simple as if they are the victim to then turning abusive when you inform them that you have to hold onto some of the deposit as to clear the bills they then get aggro and sometimes abusive....

the OP surely is showing they are not to be trusted as they stopped paying everything on the last month, other way round and someone played that game on you how would you feel?

The need for police etc and the outcome could have been avoided if you had just been straight and see what the outcome is....then come on here and moan-rant-get advice...

as Tommo says.... send all them receipts to the tax office and get him paying the last 5 years tax on the rental.... if it makes you feel better

[allalong]

Deposits in Thailand.HELL .and often a 2 month amount plus 1st month

[Satcommlee]

I recently moved out of a house in Pattaya.

I had a 35'000 baht deposit with a Thai landlord and was too of the opinion that I probably wouldn't get it back.

She turned up on the day we packed the truck and sent it on the way, she spent a bit of time looking around the house and she said she was very pleased with some of the little things we had done such as putting up a few extra mosquito screens, black-out curtains and an air-con unit I had installed in the home office.

She turned up with her Policeman husband too, which sort of had me thinking to expect the worst.

But much to my surprise she returned the 30'000 baht without prompting, and I agreed to let her keep 5000 baht back to cover the electric bill that was due soon (usually around 4000 baht).

So not ALL Thai landlords are the same, if anyone wants a 4 bedroomed house in gated compound, very near North Road in Pattaya, PM me and I will pass on the details.