Rental Deposit (Again)

[Bluenose BKK]

I have property managed in Thailand on behalf of owners and all I can say is the times I have gone to check someone out of their apartment/house and they said 'we have paid everything up to date, telephone bill, electric etc' that when you do the check and they haven't then start acting all simple as if they are the victim to then turning abusive when you inform them that you have to hold onto some of the deposit as to clear the bills they then get aggro and sometimes abusive....

the OP surely is showing they are not to be trusted as they stopped paying everything on the last month, other way round and someone played that game on you how would you feel?

The need for police etc and the outcome could have been avoided if you had just been straight and see what the outcome is....then come on here and moan-rant-get advice...

as Tommo says.... send all them receipts to the tax office and get him paying the last 5 years tax on the rental.... if it makes you feel better

What's the address for the tax office in Bangkok,as i intend to do this and am anticipating problems with the owners of my house as usual?

[rattler]

Had a tenant recently with a 1 year contract tell us he was leaving in 2 weeks and he was only 4 months into his contract, he wanted his deposit back, we told him you have given us 2 weeks notice on a year contract after only 4 months BUT if you can find a replacement tenant we will refund you.

No reply from him except asking for his deposit back.

He left a few days early after carving "X's" into all the furniture, cutting the copper pipes in the aircon, slashing the bed and curtains, breaking the cooker hood, breaking the fridge etc etc.

Cost 50k to fix.

So no responsibility there then................oh yes he was a 76 year old American.

We got a police report and contacted the U.S embassy and a few other things.

Security told us he was often drunk and had split with his girlfriend.............that must be why he needed to leave urgently.

[FunFon]

Yes you can see why many landlords enforce their contracts with violence.

IMO you get back what you put out there, for me I find it works best when you assume the best in people, try to always do the right thing yourself, and just accept it when you are occasionally hard done by, law of averages works in your favor.

Assume the worst and try to exact revenge and the same law will work against you.

None of which has anything to do with Thailand or even real estate specifically.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

She turned up on the day we packed the truck and sent it on the way, she spent a bit of time looking around the house and she said she was very pleased with some of the little things we had done such as putting up a few extra mosquito screens, black-out curtains and an air-con unit I had installed in the home office.

I would hope she was pleased. These are all things that I would expect a landlord to provide and pay for.

[Bluenose BKK]

Had a tenant recently with a 1 year contract tell us he was leaving in 2 weeks and he was only 4 months into his contract, he wanted his deposit back, we told him you have given us 2 weeks notice on a year contract after only 4 months BUT if you can find a replacement tenant we will refund you.

No reply from him except asking for his deposit back.

He left a few days early after carving "X's" into all the furniture, cutting the copper pipes in the aircon, slashing the bed and curtains, breaking the cooker hood, breaking the fridge etc etc.

Cost 50k to fix.

So no responsibility there then................oh yes he was a 76 year old American.

We got a police report and contacted the U.S embassy and a few other things.

Security told us he was often drunk and had split with his girlfriend.............that must be why he needed to leave urgently.

What an utter scumbag,it's losers like this that make it difficult for the rest of us,I've never treated someone else's house any different from how I'd treat my own but still continually have problems getting my deposit back.It's not just an Asian thing,Spain is a nightmare for this also!

[Satcommlee]

She turned up on the day we packed the truck and sent it on the way, she spent a bit of time looking around the house and she said she was very pleased with some of the little things we had done such as putting up a few extra mosquito screens, black-out curtains and an air-con unit I had installed in the home office.

I would hope she was pleased. These are all things that I would expect a landlord to provide and pay for.

The rent accurately reflected the quality of the property, there with others in the street almost double the price I was paying.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

The rent accurately reflected the quality of the property, there with others in the street almost double the price I was paying.

Maybe so. There are some (stupid) people in my building paying much more than I am for much smaller units, and mine has better fittings. Even so I expect my landlord to pay for repairs and improvements.#

Still, as long as you are happy that's all there is to it.

[Satcommlee]

The rent accurately reflected the quality of the property, there with others in the street almost double the price I was paying.

Maybe so. There are some (stupid) people in my building paying much more than I am for much smaller units, and mine has better fittings. Even so I expect my landlord to pay for repairs and improvements.#

Still, as long as you are happy that's all there is to it.

Maybe you are right, I should have asked for Gold Tap fittings, 60 Inch plasmas in each room, Marble floor and a replica of Michaelangelo's David in the Garden. Somehow I think I know what the answer would have been.

[scorecard]

You have to pay rent. The deposit is a separate issue that you can deal with should it become an issue (which it has not yet). Your agreement did not allow you to hold hostage your rent in return for your deposit.

Sorry I feel for you getting screwed over but you can't break your part of the contract.

I agree with you for the most part, but if you do follow the contract, if gives the landlord free reign to do as he sees fit. And you can't dispute it. It is total bs. I know you enter into the agreement knowing all this, but I think those agreements assume reasonable landlords, which many aren't. The default position for many landlords is to dock the deposit even when the place is perfect; make make up reasons out of thin air.

Don't get me wrong I know a renter is often in a bad position and its common practice (in Western countries, too) to get screwed out of your deposit for BS reasons.

Having been in these situation myself, though, and walking through the options.. it comes down to this. You are a renter. The entire arrangement is that you pay money to stay somewhere. The moment you stop paying to stay there your rights are nil. It's their propert and you aren't paying the be there what more do you expect?

I expect things like when a pipe breaks and needs to be replaced, that I don't have to pay for the pipe myself. If you have never had this in Thailand, you are lucky. These landlords literally think it is the renters responsibility to pay for upkeep. It is totally ridiculous. I have always thought one of the only ways to handle ridiculousness is to act ridiculous yourself.

Sure lots of landlords (all countries) are ruthless and that's not nice, but keep in mind that there are tenants (all countries) who also don't keep to the agreement and damage things, sometimes deliberately / and sometimes try every trick in the book to avoid paying the rent.

I rented out two house properties here in Thailand over about 10 years, always to farang tenants, around 40% of the tenats were a nightmare. 'A button came off my shirt in the washing machine so you have to replace the shirt (cost US$200) plus give me one more shirt for compensation' etc etc etc. 'I deducted XX% from the rent because the weather has been a bit colder and were not using the pool'. Another story every month

In one case I discovered, when the tenant vacated and I quickly did an inspection, that an almost new water heater had disappeared. I asked the tenant where it was : 'Ohh I gave it to my mate, he's living in an apartment which didn't have hot water. If you want it back you can go to his room and ask for it'. For this and several other reasons (mostly numerous items of damage, including many tiles in the swimming pool damaged - caused when the farang threw a scooter in the pool in a fit of rage), I refused to refund the deposit.

The wife called her husbands employer and they sent the company lawyer around to threaten me.

Worst tenants were a couple from UK, the wife tried every trick ever invented every month before she paid, including deducting from the documented rental amount the ATM fee plus her gasoline costs to drive to the ATM.

Two sides to every coin.

Edited March 20, 2013 by scorecard

[isawasnake]

^You mean there are lousy tenants?! Wow, amazing news.

The point is, and you are almost bolstering it, when you have a good tenant, they should be treated well and not get charged for things that break to no fault of their own. But they don't do that here, they charge both good and bad tenants whatever it is they feel like, thus propagating the legions of bad tenants in the process no doubt. In other words, idiot landlord policies account for a large portion of your "40% nightmare tenants". So reap what you sow.

Edited March 20, 2013 by isawasnake

[BlackPuddingBertha]

Maybe you are right, I should have asked for Gold Tap fittings, 60 Inch plasmas in each room, Marble floor and a replica of Michaelangelo's David in the Garden. Somehow I think I know what the answer would have been.

Air-con and screens are standard fittings that can be expected in any unit. The items you mention are not.

My landlord provided a functional TV which I put straight in a cupboard and replaced with a 60+KB flat-screen TV that I bought myself. I dont expect him to pay for it.

I also repaired the bathroom shower head myself (at zero cost to anyone).

[Bluenose BKK]

^You mean there are lousy tenants?! Wow, amazing news.

The point is, and you are almost bolstering it, when you have a good tenant, they should be treated well and not get charged for things that break to no fault of their own. But they don't do that here, they charge both good and bad tenants whatever it is they feel like, thus propagating the legions of bad tenants in the process no doubt. In other words, idiot landlord policies account for a large portion of your "40% nightmare tenants". So reap what you sow.

Exactly what I was going to say,the problems that in Asia if you rent a property you are looked down on,I rent from an idiot Hi-So Thai-Chinese girl in her thirties.She couldn't even be bothered to turn up for the contract signing and sent her Mother and Father,who is a Doctor and obviously the person who bought the house for her!

She wanted myself and the rental agent to have a second meeting with her afterwards,so we both told her where to go,she's tried to get me to meet her again by sending texts late at night saying she'll turn up the next day at 10am.This stand-by-your-bed inspection,control freak,spoilt brat nonsense really annoys me so once again she was told where to go!

I'm just counting on the fact that the Doctor will have kept my deposit and common sense will prevail when it comes time to hand it back,as left to her I don't think I would have any chance of seeing a single red cent of it back!

[Bluenose BKK]

Maybe you are right, I should have asked for Gold Tap fittings, 60 Inch plasmas in each room, Marble floor and a replica of Michaelangelo's David in the Garden. Somehow I think I know what the answer would have been.

Air-con and screens are standard fittings that can be expected in any unit. The items you mention are not.

My landlord provided a functional TV which I put straight in a cupboard and replaced with a 60+KB flat-screen TV that I bought myself. I dont expect him to pay for it.

I also repaired the bathroom shower head myself (at zero cost to anyone).

The broken shower head is certainly routine maintenance for the landlord,especially when it comes to a new tenant,why should you be expected to replace that on moving in when it wasn't you that broke it?

[BlackPuddingBertha]

The broken shower head is certainly routine maintenance for the landlord,especially when it comes to a new tenant,why should you be expected to replace that on moving in when it wasn't you that broke it?

It wasn't exactly broken, just partially functional and it was quite some time after I moved in. The agent said "you buy a new one, and you pay" (my contract says repairs under 1000B are down to me, which seems reasonable). But I preferred to take it apart and clean the blockages with a paper clip. That was a year ago and it's still fine.

[stiggy]

Key Money and deposits are rarely returned form what I have witnessed.

Those that are, are usually a hassle to get.

Another Scam in the LOS unfortunately. We factor this into any business dealing we have now,i.e renting property for staff or a new office. Getting them back is classed as a bonus.

On the rare occasion we do get them back hassle free, we make sure to use them again or recommend others to them.

It helps if your legal to start with, have documented everything including photos etc and have a friendly policeman behind you .

Edited March 20, 2013 by stiggy

[Bluenose BKK]

Key Money and deposits are rarely returned form what I have witnessed.

Those that are are usually a hassle to get.

Another Scam in the LOS unfortunately we actually factor this into any business dealing we have now,i.e renting property for staff or a new office. Getting them back is classed as a bonus.

On the rare occasion we do get them back hassle free, we make sure to use them again or recommend others to them.

It helps if your legal to start with have documented everything including photos etc and have a friendly policeman behind you .

What part of renting a house could be considered illegal then?

[stiggy]

Whats Illegal in renting a house? nothing normally

I refer to being Legal in every other sense,if working you have work permit if you are known as a having business its above board.Proper visa etc etc.

As scumbag landlords will dig around to find leverage and use it against you.

eg. It dosent matter if you are being ripped off when they call the police, and your on wrong visa, overstay, etc etc

Edited March 20, 2013 by stiggy

[isawasnake]

The broken shower head is certainly routine maintenance for the landlord,especially when it comes to a new tenant,why should you be expected to replace that on moving in when it wasn't you that broke it?

It wasn't exactly broken, just partially functional and it was quite some time after I moved in. The agent said "you buy a new one, and you pay" (my contract says repairs under 1000B are down to me, which seems reasonable). But I preferred to take it apart and clean the blockages with a paper clip. That was a year ago and it's still fine.

That is a great policy for the landlord. I'm pretty handy, not the best. But if I was living under that policy I'd half ass fix EVERYTHING that popped up, without spending a dime, and leave it to the next guy. Leak under the sink: get a bucket and maybe a small piece of my duct tape if i am feeling like spending big for the day lol.

Maybe that is what was/is happening to you under that policy.

That is such a strong policy to have on the landlords side, I'll definitely keep that in mind in negotiating a rate for an apartment; meaning throw that to him for a 1000 baht a month reduction or something. How nice would it sound to a landlord to never have to come out and fix or pay for almost anything.

Edited March 21, 2013 by isawasnake

[BlackPuddingBertha]

Actually in the two years since I have been in the unit there has only been one type of repair bill: 400B for cleaning the aircon once or twice a year. Although technically they are down to me, the agent took care of them.

Light-bulbs, cleaning materials and suchlike I buy myself, which seems correct to me, and as the agent made the owner buy a new fridge and microwave before I moved in there hasn't been much else to go wrong.

The 1000B repair liability seems to be quite standard here, and in fact many places have contracts with the same clause at 2000B or more. Mine originally said 2000B but I changed it before signing it, along with a few other things.