Avoid Mistakes Of The West: Stiglitz

[Lite Beer]

ECONOMY
Avoid mistakes of the West: Stiglitz
Kornchanok Raksaseri
The Nation on Sunday

Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz has an on-stage interview with Nation Multimedia Group chairman Suthichai Yoon.

BANGKOK: -- Kingdom needs its own growth model, must opt out of TPP, Nobel laureate advises

Emerging markets including Thailand, other Asean countries and China should "decouple themselves from Western markets", Nobel laureate economist Joseph Stiglitz said during a speech in Bangkok yesterday.

To be able to grow, emerging markets must be less dependent on exports, boost domestic consumption and find their own model of sustainable economic growth, the US economist said.

Stiglitz said the most serious questions facing the global and regional economies were whether the euro zone would survive; whether the European Union would drop the austerity policies that have caused recession and switch to a policy of growth; and whether the US will be able to move beyond its current gridlock. Stiglitz expected not more than 3 per cent growth in the US in the near future, adding that the country needs to reduce its significant unemployment level. But full employment was not in sight this decade, he said.

"It's going to be a long time before we can get back to what I may call normal," he said.

He also expected emerging markets, China in particular, to be able to decouple their economies from Western economies and develop in a sustainable way.

Stiglitz was speaking during an on-stage interview with Nation Multimedia Group chairman Suthichai Yoon. He earlier gave a lecture on the global economic outlook as part of an international academic seminar at Dhurakij Pundit University.

The Nobel laureate opposes austerity measures, saying they had proven to lead to recession and depression. To avoid repeating developed countries' mistakes, newly emerging economies should invest in education, technology, the environment and public health and find a sustainable model of economic growth, he said.

"Focus on quality of growth, environment, living standards and how the benefits are shared," he said.

US innovations had contributed in part to the country's current economic instability. The innovations were created to save labour costs, but now unemployment rates are problematic, he said.

The US and European countries, as well as Japan, also need structural and educational reforms, but implementing them was difficult now that they were facing economic problems, Stiglitz said.

"From the point of view of the region and from the point of view of the planet, it's going to be very important for China to develop a new model of economic growth, because if it imitates the economic growth of the United States based on [unchecked] consumption and material goods, our planet won't survive," he said.

Discussing the problems in the euro zone, he voiced opposition to the idea of a common currency - a direction in which Asean might be heading.

"If you go down the common currency [route], that is a bad idea. You need to talk about Asian cooperation," he said. "Sharing a currency takes away the ability to adapt, to adjust," he said.

"A common market is a good idea; while the issues of the market are relatively small, they can still benefit from economy of scale."

Stiglitz said corporations' lobbying of politicians was standing in the way of resolving economic problems.

He also warned that the Trans-Pacific Strategic Economic Partnership (TPP) that the US is trying to reach with other countries is dangerous.

"While negotiations are behind closed doors, cooperation is on the table," he said.

Drug companies, for example, are among the corporations lobbying politicians in secret negotiations, he said.

"The objective [of drug companies] is to make profit. The way they do this is to make you pay high prices even though the basic research is paid for by the American government," he said.

"They are very bad for the development of generic drug industries. Thailand is one of the good countries in this area. It would be a mistake for you to give up on that. And if you join the TPP, you will have to," he said.

During his visit to Thailand last year, US President Barack Obama tried to convince Thailand to join in the TPP.

-- The Nation 2013-03-17

[chainarong]

A reality check is required Mr Stiglitz, when you have sir , a country that has corrupt corporate governance , a government structure that stinks of corruption and nepotism, a system of democracy that favours the rich, I do think that some lessons could be learned from the west , I for one would gladly show them the way. You have had your opinion ,That's my opinion, mind you in China, that you so greatly talk up, this might not be possible.

[DocN]

Another bootlicking, @ss- kissing know-it-all, who forgets to check his "theory" against the reality.

[Payboy]

"I once ate a watermelon this big."

[Sayonarax]

Free energy would solve this issue.

Wake up west, your governments are just as corrupt, being lead by the corporations and banks. So dismount off ya high horse.

[Bellweather]

That's right Thailand ignore the west's mistakes and keep on making your own highly ingrained, specialist and cultural types which have been honed over decades and beyond

[Locationthailand]

Another bootlicking, @ss- kissing know-it-all, who forgets to check his "theory" against the reality.

Utter rubbish. Check his background. He, like John K. Galbraith (The New Industrial Estate) - mid last century - is spot on. His foresight and forecasts are accurate and his take on the US and European economic strategies are correct, in debt they cannot trade out of, printing money to meet debt and high unemployment, His take on Big Pharma also absolutely accurate. Whilst we all have fun here at TV bagging and ragging, and throwing off at the ridiculous situation of Thailand politics and reporting, some people do not need to be torn down, so let the truth be known.

Edited March 17, 2013 by Locationthailand

[Thai at Heart]

Talking about this in markets that behind non competitive protectionism is pointless

[DocN]

Another bootlicking, @ss- kissing know-it-all, who forgets to check his "theory" against the reality.

Utter rubbish. Check his background. He, like John K. Galbraith (The New Industrial Estate) - mid last century - is spot on. His foresight and forecasts are accurate and his take on the US and European economic strategies are correct, in debt they cannot trade out of, printing money to meet debt and high unemployment, His take on Big Pharma also absolutely accurate. Whilst we all have fun here at TV bagging and ragging, and throwing off at the ridiculous situation of Thailand politics and reporting, some people do not need to be torn down, so let the truth be known.

Just one quote from the article: ""Focus on quality of growth, environment, living standards and how the benefits are shared," he said. All very nice...only, it doesn't hold any water, compared to the reality of Thailand, where most politicians (of either color) don't even know, how to spell environment! "...benefits are shared"...are you kidding me?

[geriatrickid]

Another bootlicking, @ss- kissing know-it-all, who forgets to check his "theory" against the reality.

Utter rubbish. Check his background. He, like John K. Galbraith (The New Industrial Estate) - mid last century - is spot on. His foresight and forecasts are accurate and his take on the US and European economic strategies are correct, in debt they cannot trade out of, printing money to meet debt and high unemployment, His take on Big Pharma also absolutely accurate. Whilst we all have fun here at TV bagging and ragging, and throwing off at the ridiculous situation of Thailand politics and reporting, some people do not need to be torn down, so let the truth be known.

I too believe the gentleman is not entirely correct. (I am assuming that he has not been quoted out of context.)

He is quoted as stating "emerging markets must be less dependent on exports, boost domestic consumption and find their own model of sustainable economic growth ". Really? Well, I like pie in the sky and unicorns too.

Unfortunately, Thailand needs to import a very expensive commodity, commonly referred to as energy. Oil & gas is only going to become more expensive over time. How does this chap propose that Thailand pay for a very expensive item unless it has the FX from exports? Thailand requires a great many expensive imports to sustain its manufacturing and agricultural sectors. Thailand has to pay for those imports.

He wants Thailand to boost domestic consumption? How does he propose to do that? More borrowing? Isn't Thailand's household debt growing too fast because there is too much consumption of both domestic and foreign products? If anything, Thailand needs to control the looming personal debt crisis. Thailand's program to boost domestic consumption has encouraged the sale of new cars (with a big boost from the floods that saw thousands of vehicles replaced.) Just how has this helped Thailand's economy in the long run with the greater demand for energy to power the vehicles and of course an increase in the household debt as consumers borrowed to purchase the made in Thailand vehicles?

[geriatrickid]

Free energy would solve this issue.

Wake up west, your governments are just as corrupt, being lead by the corporations and banks. So dismount off ya high horse.

That may be so, but there is usually a day of reckoning in the west. Corrupt people do get caught and they do get severely punished. Have you seen the mega million dollar fines imposed on the banks? Do you not think that encourages compliance? You know that Allen Stanford fellow who had the big bank Ponzi scheme? He's rotting in jail right now and has lost all of his ill gained benefits. When is the last time some Thai hiso engaged in commercial crime went to prison?

[chiangmaikelly]

Another bootlicking, @ss- kissing know-it-all, who forgets to check his "theory" against the reality.

Utter rubbish. Check his background. He, like John K. Galbraith (The New Industrial Estate) - mid last century - is spot on. His foresight and forecasts are accurate and his take on the US and European economic strategies are correct, in debt they cannot trade out of, printing money to meet debt and high unemployment, His take on Big Pharma also absolutely accurate. Whilst we all have fun here at TV bagging and ragging, and throwing off at the ridiculous situation of Thailand politics and reporting, some people do not need to be torn down, so let the truth be known.

I too believe the gentleman is not entirely correct. (I am assuming that he has not been quoted out of context.)

He is quoted as stating "emerging markets must be less dependent on exports, boost domestic consumption and find their own model of sustainable economic growth ". Really? Well, I like pie in the sky and unicorns too.

Unfortunately, Thailand needs to import a very expensive commodity, commonly referred to as energy. Oil & gas is only going to become more expensive over time. How does this chap propose that Thailand pay for a very expensive item unless it has the FX from exports? Thailand requires a great many expensive imports to sustain its manufacturing and agricultural sectors. Thailand has to pay for those imports.

He wants Thailand to boost domestic consumption? How does he propose to do that? More borrowing? Isn't Thailand's household debt growing too fast because there is too much consumption of both domestic and foreign products? If anything, Thailand needs to control the looming personal debt crisis. Thailand's program to boost domestic consumption has encouraged the sale of new cars (with a big boost from the floods that saw thousands of vehicles replaced.) Just how has this helped Thailand's economy in the long run with the greater demand for energy to power the vehicles and of course an increase in the household debt as consumers borrowed to purchase the made in Thailand vehicles?

I think you are picking and choosing and missing his major point which was get the heck out or the Euro market because it's going to crash. He said, "Emerging markets including Thailand, other Asean countries and China should "decouple themselves from Western markets." It don't take a weather man to know the Euro zone is going to fail. "Stiglitz said the most serious questions facing the global and regional economies were whether the euro zone would survive." And not much better news for the US as he predicts, " Stiglitz expected not more than 3 per cent growth in the US in the near future, adding that the country needs to reduce its significant unemployment level. But full employment was not in sight this decade." He joins many other economists in calling on getting out of Western investments and into Asian. I guess it should be noted that absent from his remarks were any discussion of a Chinese crash and/or Thai Bubbles.

Edited March 17, 2013 by chiangmaikelly

[MaxLee]

Too late... Bangkok, but only Bangkok is getting ahead of itself ridden by generation of Thai Chinese political and high status cronies, acquiring technologies and desperately trying to adopt some lifestyles of Western and developed nations' living, just for the sale of showing FACE AND STATUS, without investing one satang in real infrastructure development, environmental science, computer technology, engineering and machinery maintenance and security measurements.,...

But in the mean time everybody else on top in Thailand are filling their pockets with money under the table, collected by their several Ministries aka "Mafias of Thailand", while their spoonfed kids troll around the shopping malls, and spend their parents' money all day long, and result to violence if things don't go their way....

So while Bangkok, only Bangkok develops, the other provinces are left in the dump, as usual, sh*****tloaded at the cost of Bangkok...

EDIT:

I think you are picking and choosing and missing his major point which was get the heck out or the Euro market because it's going to crash. He said, "Emerging markets including Thailand, other Asean countries and China should "decouple themselves from Western markets." It don't take a weather man to know the Euro zone is going to fail. "Stiglitz said the most serious questions facing the global and regional economies were whether the euro zone would survive." And not much better news for the US as he predicts, " Stiglitz expected not more than 3 per cent growth in the US in the near future, adding that the country needs to reduce its significant unemployment level. But full employment was not in sight this decade." He joins many other economists in calling on getting out of Western investments and into Asian. I guess it should be noted that absent from his remarks were any discussion of a Chinese crash and/or Thai Bubbles.

So on other words, Thailand will be screwed anyway, but even worst, when they separate themselves from the Eurozone, then China is taking over Asia, and is more than happy to reward their ancient ancestry spies who took corruption and treacherous ripoff ethics into Thailand as it is today... Edited March 17, 2013 by MaxLee

[Unwisemonkey]

Another bootlicking, @ss- kissing know-it-all, who forgets to check his "theory" against the reality.

Utter rubbish. Check his background. He, like John K. Galbraith (The New Industrial Estate) - mid last century - is spot on. His foresight and forecasts are accurate and his take on the US and European economic strategies are correct, in debt they cannot trade out of, printing money to meet debt and high unemployment, His take on Big Pharma also absolutely accurate. Whilst we all have fun here at TV bagging and ragging, and throwing off at the ridiculous situation of Thailand politics and reporting, some people do not need to be torn down, so let the truth be known.

I too believe the gentleman is not entirely correct. (I am assuming that he has not been quoted out of context.)

He is quoted as stating "emerging markets must be less dependent on exports, boost domestic consumption and find their own model of sustainable economic growth ". Really? Well, I like pie in the sky and unicorns too.

Unfortunately, Thailand needs to import a very expensive commodity, commonly referred to as energy. Oil & gas is only going to become more expensive over time. How does this chap propose that Thailand pay for a very expensive item unless it has the FX from exports? Thailand requires a great many expensive imports to sustain its manufacturing and agricultural sectors. Thailand has to pay for those imports.

He wants Thailand to boost domestic consumption? How does he propose to do that? More borrowing? Isn't Thailand's household debt growing too fast because there is too much consumption of both domestic and foreign products? If anything, Thailand needs to control the looming personal debt crisis. Thailand's program to boost domestic consumption has encouraged the sale of new cars (with a big boost from the floods that saw thousands of vehicles replaced.) Just how has this helped Thailand's economy in the long run with the greater demand for energy to power the vehicles and of course an increase in the household debt as consumers borrowed to purchase the made in Thailand vehicles?

Thailand is a small country so running into bigwigs by chance is something I think can happen fairly frequently. That said I don't mean to toot my own horn but one of my students I am tutoring in English is a Government Bigwig. Thailand has plans under way already to address energy issues as told to me by my student. In the next six months or so he will personally be traveling to several Asian and European countries to pick up the components (I don't know what they are) to what is going to be made into a super recycling machine that will be installed in Pathum Thani. What it basically amounts to if I understood correctly for every Kilo of plastic recycled (plastic is a byproduct of petrochemicals) it will yield 2 grams of oil.

It may not be a panacea but it's definitely part of the solution.

Edited March 17, 2013 by Unwisemonkey

[BlackJack]

top 5 industry money making organisations that tell governments what to do are?

bigpharma or pharmacueticals

the US bootlicks to them and so why wouldnt Obama be here to try and get the Thais to stop making using generic drugs, and here BTW use our GMO seeds then you'll be hooked on us forever!

Thailand - stay the course - deal with Asians and make the ASEAN a reality - stay away from the TPP and the USA at all costs

[mccw]

Another bootlicking, @ss- kissing know-it-all, who forgets to check his "theory" against the reality.

Utter rubbish. Check his background. He, like John K. Galbraith (The New Industrial Estate) - mid last century - is spot on. His foresight and forecasts are accurate and his take on the US and European economic strategies are correct, in debt they cannot trade out of, printing money to meet debt and high unemployment, His take on Big Pharma also absolutely accurate. Whilst we all have fun here at TV bagging and ragging, and throwing off at the ridiculous situation of Thailand politics and reporting, some people do not need to be torn down, so let the truth be known.

I too believe the gentleman is not entirely correct. (I am assuming that he has not been quoted out of context.)

He is quoted as stating "emerging markets must be less dependent on exports, boost domestic consumption and find their own model of sustainable economic growth ". Really? Well, I like pie in the sky and unicorns too.

Unfortunately, Thailand needs to import a very expensive commodity, commonly referred to as energy. Oil & gas is only going to become more expensive over time. How does this chap propose that Thailand pay for a very expensive item unless it has the FX from exports? Thailand requires a great many expensive imports to sustain its manufacturing and agricultural sectors. Thailand has to pay for those imports.

He wants Thailand to boost domestic consumption? How does he propose to do that? More borrowing? Isn't Thailand's household debt growing too fast because there is too much consumption of both domestic and foreign products? If anything, Thailand needs to control the looming personal debt crisis. Thailand's program to boost domestic consumption has encouraged the sale of new cars (with a big boost from the floods that saw thousands of vehicles replaced.) Just how has this helped Thailand's economy in the long run with the greater demand for energy to power the vehicles and of course an increase in the household debt as consumers borrowed to purchase the made in Thailand vehicles?

I think you are picking and choosing and missing his major point which was get the heck out or the Euro market because it's going to crash. He said, "Emerging markets including Thailand, other Asean countries and China should "decouple themselves from Western markets." It don't take a weather man to know the Euro zone is going to fail. "Stiglitz said the most serious questions facing the global and regional economies were whether the euro zone would survive." And not much better news for the US as he predicts, " Stiglitz expected not more than 3 per cent growth in the US in the near future, adding that the country needs to reduce its significant unemployment level. But full employment was not in sight this decade." He joins many other economists in calling on getting out of Western investments and into Asian. I guess it should be noted that absent from his remarks were any discussion of a Chinese crash and/or Thai Bubbles.

Yes; lots of talk of decoupling and Asia creating its own "sustainable" economic future growth, not following west debt based example, but no ideas how on earth such a thing is achievable.

[Phronesis]

Thailand already has it own "model of sustainable economic growth".

1. Provide government incentives for new vehicle purchases.

2. Relax lending standards for debt to purchase new vehicles.

3. Remove cheaper 91 grade benzine and replace with 95.

Wooohooo....who needs innovation, education and productivity increases...

[Locationthailand]

Another bootlicking, @ss- kissing know-it-all, who forgets to check his "theory" against the reality.

Utter rubbish. Check his background. He, like John K. Galbraith (The New Industrial Estate) - mid last century - is spot on. His foresight and forecasts are accurate and his take on the US and European economic strategies are correct, in debt they cannot trade out of, printing money to meet debt and high unemployment, His take on Big Pharma also absolutely accurate. Whilst we all have fun here at TV bagging and ragging, and throwing off at the ridiculous situation of Thailand politics and reporting, some people do not need to be torn down, so let the truth be known.

I too believe the gentleman is not entirely correct. (I am assuming that he has not been quoted out of context.)

He is quoted as stating "emerging markets must be less dependent on exports, boost domestic consumption and find their own model of sustainable economic growth ". Really? Well, I like pie in the sky and unicorns too.

Unfortunately, Thailand needs to import a very expensive commodity, commonly referred to as energy. Oil & gas is only going to become more expensive over time. How does this chap propose that Thailand pay for a very expensive item unless it has the FX from exports? Thailand requires a great many expensive imports to sustain its manufacturing and agricultural sectors. Thailand has to pay for those imports.

He wants Thailand to boost domestic consumption? How does he propose to do that? More borrowing? Isn't Thailand's household debt growing too fast because there is too much consumption of both domestic and foreign products? If anything, Thailand needs to control the looming personal debt crisis. Thailand's program to boost domestic consumption has encouraged the sale of new cars (with a big boost from the floods that saw thousands of vehicles replaced.) Just how has this helped Thailand's economy in the long run with the greater demand for energy to power the vehicles and of course an increase in the household debt as consumers borrowed to purchase the made in Thailand vehicles?

I think you are picking and choosing and missing his major point which was get the heck out or the Euro market because it's going to crash. He said, "Emerging markets including Thailand, other Asean countries and China should "decouple themselves from Western markets." It don't take a weather man to know the Euro zone is going to fail. "Stiglitz said the most serious questions facing the global and regional economies were whether the euro zone would survive." And not much better news for the US as he predicts, " Stiglitz expected not more than 3 per cent growth in the US in the near future, adding that the country needs to reduce its significant unemployment level. But full employment was not in sight this decade." He joins many other economists in calling on getting out of Western investments and into Asian. I guess it should be noted that absent from his remarks were any discussion of a Chinese crash and/or Thai Bubbles.

Yes, you are correct as both OP's missed the context and prediction. Sure accuracy in Thailand journalism is high school standard at best but whilst I agree with limiting imports and downsizing exports, it is just opinion and the OP's are certainly entitled to opinion. Self sufficiency is a tried and proven method. Look at India's example when they shut down trading for a period and pulled themselves out of a ditch last century. Whilst the world has changed, there is nothing like a bit of local support to boost the local economy. Buying imports sends money offshore. It also does not stimulate local business. Anyway it is debatable and will never be truly resolved without some form of fiscal responsibility from govt - and that won't happen here in any hurry.

[waza]

Sound theory but hardly a glowing endorcement of the current government economic policy

[Mosha]

I thought Stiglitz died in that shoot out in the wine cellar.

[chiangmaikelly]

I think you are picking and choosing and missing his major point which was get the heck out or the Euro market because it's going to crash. He said, "Emerging markets including Thailand, other Asean countries and China should "decouple themselves from Western markets." It don't take a weather man to know the Euro zone is going to fail. "Stiglitz said the most serious questions facing the global and regional economies were whether the euro zone would survive." And not much better news for the US as he predicts, " Stiglitz expected not more than 3 per cent growth in the US in the near future, adding that the country needs to reduce its significant unemployment level. But full employment was not in sight this decade." He joins many other economists in calling on getting out of Western investments and into Asian. I guess it should be noted that absent from his remarks were any discussion of a Chinese crash and/or Thai Bubbles.

Yes; lots of talk of decoupling and Asia creating its own "sustainable" economic future growth, not following west debt based example, but no ideas how on earth such a thing is achievable.

Get access to Chinese markets and the rest of Asia and stop trying to sell things in the West. High speed rails among others come to mind.

Edited March 17, 2013 by chiangmaikelly

[khunken]

I don't think he is endorsing the government's policy at all. He is providing a model - not details - for the country to grow sustainably. Not far from what HM the King has always advocated.

As far as energy is concerned, there is plenty within the Thai borders, including some in joint areas with neighbouring countries. The Gulf of Thailand & parts of the Andaman sea are slowly yielding smallish amounts of oil & large amounts of gas.

I don't think he is saying that the country should abandon trading with other countries, rather don't rely solely on exports to fuel growth. Stay away from airy-fairy groupings like TPP & APEC but carry on with ASEAN without any attempt to go for a single currency.

Personally, I think he is right.

Edited March 17, 2013 by khunken

[chiangmaikelly]

Sound theory but hardly a glowing endorcement of the current government economic policy

Who said it was? Not every thread is a debate of the current government. The guy said don't put your money in the Euro and stay away from American drug companies. Good advice for any government.

[metisdead]

A post with messed up quotes has been removed as it was difficult to determine who said what.

[rubl]

Not to put your money in the Euro and to stay away from American drug companies which get their IP rights effected by various governments might be good advise to investors. That's not the same as advise to governments. IMHO of course

[thaicbr]

I thought Stiglitz died in that shoot out in the wine cellar.

He did. That was Hugo. This is his son Joseph.

[Thai at Heart]

So name me one entirely domestically created and funded Thai export industry?

[khunken]

So name me one entirely domestically created and funded Thai export industry?

What's your point?

[waza]

Sound theory but hardly a glowing endorcement of the current government economic policy

Who said it was? Not every thread is a debate of the current government. The guy said don't put your money in the Euro and stay away from American drug companies. Good advice for any government.

Why are commenting on my post and not the OPs, are you harassing me?

[Markaew]

If you are going to learn from other countries' mistakes, don't you have to have the ability to learn from your own first?