Thai Govt Must Be Held Accountable For Ruinous Rice Scheme

[thhMan]

Until Thailand allows foreign individuals/companies to come in and work side by side with Thais, there will always be a shortfall on action and common sense.

What westerners see as ridiculous, Thais see it as "tradition" or "the Thai way"...

Waffling about it here will never get noticed by Thais... Perhaps we should learn to speak and read Thai and express our opinions in Thai Forums...

[billd766]

And the sad thing is, if it causes bankruptcy and a financial crisis, they will blame it on something else and the poor rural masses who are now all out of work will still vote for the same crowd.

The rural masses? Who are they? If they want a job go to town. It's not like one can build a factory in every village. Thailand does have less than one percent unemployment you know.

Well the rural masses are the people I see going past the house every day, a lot of them to work.

Some even work at the factories in the villages. Some are unemployed and the reason the the government reports only 1% unemployment is that many workers are not registered anywhere and therefore are not counted.

Don't work as the self appointed demigod is still working on returning to Thailand whitewashed and squeaky clean.

The last line should have read

Don't work worry as the self appointed demigod is still working on returning to Thailand whitewashed and squeaky clean.

I swear my computer thinks for itself at times.

[belg]

would have been logic to support another round if the previous was succesfull and brought in a lot of money and thus sponsoring the next round without new tax money being wasted...

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh nails, so many nails in the coffin

[rubl]

Anyway why should the government be accountable for billions of Baht handed out to needy, not yet (too) rich deserving people? All Thai workers got a minimum of THB 300 / day as well, didn't they? Furthermore squandering away a few hundred billion Baht simple shows that Thailand has reached the same level as a few Western countries. Clearly for all to see that very obviously can only be a good sign.

BTW the government is still working on 'transparency'. It must be clear that it takes time to make a rice mountain look transparent :-)

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[Mosha]

The OP is right. "In the long term, the government could go bankrupt because of excessive spending via high subsidy costs."

This will sink the baht and start another Asian Crisis like in 1997 and all of Asia will go down the tubes and the West will rise triumphant again.

Someone was accused of speculating and making a fortune from the 1997 crisis. It's never been investigated. He's the guy still pulling the strings today.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Mosha

[khunken]

The problems with the scheme are twofold. One is that there is little or no evidence that the small farmers are the real beneficiaries of the subsidy. They are getting trickle-down amounts while those higher up the chain - large agribusinesses, millers & skimmers - get the large sums. The way the scheme is designed is deliberately benefitting those who are in league with the PTP power brokers.

The second problem is that it is not sustainable. At some stage borrowing huge sums of money without recuperating most of it eventually leads to bankruptcy. It's not as if this is the only subsidy scheme.

Common sense would say that the earlier it was stopped or at least reduced the better. Unfortunately corruption always trumps common sense.

[Pimay1]

Thai Govt Must Be Held Accountable For Ruinous Rice Scheme

Pray do tell who is going to hold them accountable? They have the police in their pockets, the reds and farmers in their pockets, DSI in their pockets and apparently the courts in their pockets. Who is left?

[GentlemanJim]

The OP is right. "In the long term, the government could go bankrupt because of excessive spending via high subsidy costs."

This will sink the baht and start another Asian Crisis like in 1997 and all of Asia will go down the tubes and the West will rise triumphant again.

Someone was accused of speculating and making a fortune from the 1997 crisis. It's never been investigated. He's the guy still pulling the strings today.

And what is the bet that he will short the Baht a week before the next crash, and this time he will make a LOT more!

[harrycallahan]

About $500 Australian dollars for a tonne.

In a shop here we pay about $15-25 per 10kg bag, which is $1500-$2500 per tonne. More for smaller quantities.

[Buchholz]

Cabinet has given the Finance Ministry the green light to guarantee Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives (BAAC) loans worth Bt74.2 billion to finance the rice-pledging scheme in the 2012/2013 harvest season.

.

No worries paying for the cost of the program, what with the Finance Ministry's plan to lower corporate taxes even more, they can shift the red balance sheet over to the government's MasterCard account.

Finance Minister Kittiratt hints government may further cut corporate income tax down below 20%

18 March 2013 @ 15:35

http://mcot-web.mcot.net/mcot-testing/site/content?id=5146d1c4150ba0c07d0000ef#.UUbjO5jl9gs

.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Buchholz

[khunken]

Cabinet has given the Finance Ministry the green light to guarantee Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives (BAAC) loans worth Bt74.2 billion to finance the rice-pledging scheme in the 2012/2013 harvest season.

.

No worries paying for the cost of the program, what with the Finance Ministry's plan to lower corporate taxes even more, they can shift the red balance sheet over to the government's MasterCard account.

Finance Minister Kittiratt hints government may further cut corporate income tax down below 20%

18 March 2013 @ 15:35

http://mcot-web.mcot.net/mcot-testing/site/content?id=5146d1c4150ba0c07d0000ef#.UUbjO5jl9gs

.

Is the mastercard account the one that they hold at the BOT?

[GentlemanJim]

If anyone has any Thai relatives that have money in the BAAC I would really advise them to put it somewhere else...under the mattress would be safer I honestly believe the BAAC cannot last much longer. The Government have paid back hardly any of the money the BAAC has laid out on the rice scam already, something will have to give at some point.

[dcutman]

If anyone has any Thai relatives that have money in the BAAC I would really advise them to put it somewhere else...under the mattress would be safer I honestly believe the BAAC cannot last much longer. The Government have paid back hardly any of the money the BAAC has laid out on the rice scam already, something will have to give at some point.

Outstanding loans stood at 950 billion baht, an increase of 100 billion from 2011, with deposits at 90 billion.

Non-performing loans stood at 4.5% last year, down from 6.2% in 2011,

The BAAC is set to loan another 150 billion to the rice scheme for this first crop. .

Edited March 18, 2013 by dcutman

[Buchholz]

Cabinet has given the Finance Ministry the green light to guarantee Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives (BAAC) loans worth Bt74.2 billion to finance the rice-pledging scheme in the 2012/2013 harvest season.

.

No worries paying for the cost of the program, what with the Finance Ministry's plan to lower corporate taxes even more, they can shift the red balance sheet over to the government's MasterCard account.

Finance Minister Kittiratt hints government may further cut corporate income tax down below 20%

18 March 2013 @ 15:35

http://mcot-web.mcot.net/mcot-testing/site/content?id=5146d1c4150ba0c07d0000ef#.UUbjO5jl9gs

.

Is the mastercard account the one that they hold at the BOT?

Yeah, it's the one with the 5 Trillion Baht balance limit.

.

[AleG]

We'll know when the proverbial refuse is about to intersect the fan when they start to blame the Democrats for this Mongolian clusterxxxx..

Edited March 18, 2013 by metisdead

[hellodolly]

And the sad thing is, if it causes bankruptcy and a financial crisis, they will blame it on something else and the poor rural masses who are now all out of work will still vote for the same crowd.

What they will do is have the DSI investigate Abhist.

[Mosha]

If anyone has any Thai relatives that have money in the BAAC I would really advise them to put it somewhere else...under the mattress would be safer I honestly believe the BAAC cannot last much longer. The Government have paid back hardly any of the money the BAAC has laid out on the rice scam already, something will have to give at some point.

Outstanding loans stood at 950 billion baht, an increase of 100 billion from 2011, with deposits at 90 billion.

Non-performing loans stood at 4.5% last year, down from 6.2% in 2011,

The BAAC is set to loan another 150 billion to the rice scheme for this first crop. .

Who set this bank up, or is that a silly question?

[Mosha]

And the sad thing is, if it causes bankruptcy and a financial crisis, they will blame it on something else and the poor rural masses who are now all out of work will still vote for the same crowd.

What they will do is have the DSI investigate Abhist.

It's Abhisit's fault as he didn't stop other countries from growing rice. That's what a poster at TV was told his stepson's uncle was saying.

[hellodolly]

And the sad thing is, if it causes bankruptcy and a financial crisis, they will blame it on something else and the poor rural masses who are now all out of work will still vote for the same crowd.

What they will do is have the DSI investigate Abhist.

It's Abhisit's fault as he didn't stop other countries from growing rice. That's what a poster at TV was told his stepson's uncle was saying.

That is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard but I am very sure that is what they will be saying.

PTP + Red Shirt + Thaksin= Ignorant corruption.

[Pimay1]

And the sad thing is, if it causes bankruptcy and a financial crisis, they will blame it on something else and the poor rural masses who are now all out of work will still vote for the same crowd.

What they will do is have the DSI investigate Abhist.

It's Abhisit's fault as he didn't stop other countries from growing rice. That's what a poster at TV was told his stepson's uncle was saying.

He probably heard it over the morning news from the village loud speakers at the Kamnan's house. That's where the local people here learned the democrats were responsible for ending the school uniform and school books program.

[dcutman]

If anyone has any Thai relatives that have money in the BAAC I would really advise them to put it somewhere else...under the mattress would be safer I honestly believe the BAAC cannot last much longer. The Government have paid back hardly any of the money the BAAC has laid out on the rice scam already, something will have to give at some point.

Outstanding loans stood at 950 billion baht, an increase of 100 billion from 2011, with deposits at 90 billion.

Non-performing loans stood at 4.5% last year, down from 6.2% in 2011,

The BAAC is set to loan another 150 billion to the rice scheme for this first crop. .

Who set this bank up, or is that a silly question?

This is only one of 6 state, majority or wholly owned banks. When Yingluck became the "real MP" new directors (Red Shirts) where appointed to all of them to make sure the PTP populous policies where well funded without questions. Sme and the Islamic bank, are in big trouble, Government savings Bank is bailing out the BAAC and Krung Thai Bank is going to finance a large part of the high speed rail scam project. All these State banks have been accused of not properly reporting or under reporting their NPL's. Article in BP "Bad loans at state banks"

PTP has also replaced the Chiefs, at Thai Airways, MCOT and TOT.

[plachon]

This rice pledging scam scheme is indeed a masterpiece of the diversion of money to Thaksin, his family and their brown nosing acolytes.

One is inclined to ask ( more from politeness than expecting a truthful response) if the aforementioned group have any idea of the long term damage that they are wreaking upon Thailand and its people?

Do they have any pangs of conscience when they are stretching out their grubby little palms and plunging them into the state coffers to line their own pockets?

Do they ever question what rights they have to have ever started let alone continue their grand theft ?

No.

That is not possible that such thoughts would cross their corrupted tainted minds, the continued rampant looting of the state coffers and the abuse of power is according to their perverted mindset their right.

The fruits of the tree of corruption are theirs and theirs alone for the plucking and to hell with the ordinary man and women and the country.

Total indifference to the problems they are creating for future generations of Thais all this is coupled with an insatiable desire for money, power and revenge at any price,

Sadly whatever the outcome will be in the future concerning the political stability of Thailand and its civil ordered society the only certainty is that the people of Thailand will be picking up the bill for many a year to come.

This current maladministration is indeed despotic, corrupt and serves but one person, its family and their brown nosing acolytes.

The election campaign and the current and no doubt future.policies of popular politics so beloved by the seekers of absolute power is indeed the road to ruin in more ways than one..

The only flaw in your logic is that the rice subsidy scheme predates the Yingluck/Thaksin regime, but was brought in by the Samak regime and then heartily promoted by the following Somchai and Abhisit regimes. So, it would seem that every party in Thailand wants to bend over backwards to please the poor ol' rice farmers, unless I missed something?

[Cardiff1963]

i don't believe "accountable" is translatable with respect to Thai politicians

[waza]

Well maintaining this scam is costing the government 4% of GDP per year, and Thaksin claims the initial coasts of 400 billion will be recouped when the rice is sold plus a 300 % profit. I believe when it all come crashing down Yingluck will fall or be pushed on her sword and the ugly sister will take over.

[Mosha]

This rice pledging scam scheme is indeed a masterpiece of the diversion of money to Thaksin, his family and their brown nosing acolytes.

One is inclined to ask ( more from politeness than expecting a truthful response) if the aforementioned group have any idea of the long term damage that they are wreaking upon Thailand and its people?

Do they have any pangs of conscience when they are stretching out their grubby little palms and plunging them into the state coffers to line their own pockets?

Do they ever question what rights they have to have ever started let alone continue their grand theft ?

No.

That is not possible that such thoughts would cross their corrupted tainted minds, the continued rampant looting of the state coffers and the abuse of power is according to their perverted mindset their right.

The fruits of the tree of corruption are theirs and theirs alone for the plucking and to hell with the ordinary man and women and the country.

Total indifference to the problems they are creating for future generations of Thais all this is coupled with an insatiable desire for money, power and revenge at any price,

Sadly whatever the outcome will be in the future concerning the political stability of Thailand and its civil ordered society the only certainty is that the people of Thailand will be picking up the bill for many a year to come.

This current maladministration is indeed despotic, corrupt and serves but one person, its family and their brown nosing acolytes.

The election campaign and the current and no doubt future.policies of popular politics so beloved by the seekers of absolute power is indeed the road to ruin in more ways than one..

The only flaw in your logic is that the rice subsidy scheme predates the Yingluck/Thaksin regime, but was brought in by the Samak regime and then heartily promoted by the following Somchai and Abhisit regimes. So, it would seem that every party in Thailand wants to bend over backwards to please the poor ol' rice farmers, unless I missed something?

I think Abhisit's plan was to pay the farmers. I'm prepared to be proved wrong.

[siampolee]

Plachon.

Indeed you are correct in your comments post # 53,

However this current maladministration have fine tuned the original rice pledging scheme into a conduit for self enrichment of a selected few and of course as a vote buying ploy.

As I said the whole revamped scam scheme is designed to benefit a few and the majority are going to have to pay the bill..

Never in the history of Thailand have so many been cheated out of so much by so few

Mosha post # 56.

Correct, Abihisits plan was that the farmer received the payments not the select few politicians.

Edited March 18, 2013 by siampolee

[jackspratt]

The only flaw in your logic is that the rice subsidy scheme predates the Yingluck/Thaksin regime, but was brought in by the Samak regime and then heartily promoted by the following Somchai and Abhisit regimes. So, it would seem that every party in Thailand wants to bend over backwards to please the poor ol' rice farmers, unless I missed something?

You may well have.

...............This scheme continued until 2006, when Thaksin was deposed. The new

military government reverted to the old price pledging scheme under

which the price remained below the market price. A new Thaksin-aligned

government under Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej re-instated the price

support component in 2008 and again offered a pledging price well above

the market price, even though rice prices were already at record high

levels.

In late 2008, the new Democrat-led government modified the policy to

what was called an ”income support” or ”income guarantee” policy. This

name was also misleading because it guaranteed prices, not incomes. If

the market price was below a pre-established reference price, the

government would pay the farmer the difference for up to a maximum 25

tonnes of rice per farmer. Because market prices for rice were high and

normally exceeded the reference prices, the scheme delivered very little

subsidy to farmers..............

http://www.globalasia.org/V6N3_Fall_2011/Peter_Warr.html

[plachon]

The only flaw in your logic is that the rice subsidy scheme predates the Yingluck/Thaksin regime, but was brought in by the Samak regime and then heartily promoted by the following Somchai and Abhisit regimes. So, it would seem that every party in Thailand wants to bend over backwards to please the poor ol' rice farmers, unless I missed something?

You may well have.

>...............This scheme continued until 2006, when Thaksin was deposed. The new

military government reverted to the old price pledging scheme under

which the price remained below the market price. A new Thaksin-aligned

government under Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej re-instated the price

support component in 2008 and again offered a pledging price well above

the market price, even though rice prices were already at record high

levels.

In late 2008, the new Democrat-led government modified the policy to

what was called an ”income support” or ”income guarantee” policy. This

name was also misleading because it guaranteed prices, not incomes. If

the market price was below a pre-established reference price, the

government would pay the farmer the difference for up to a maximum 25

tonnes of rice per farmer. Because market prices for rice were high and

normally exceeded the reference prices, the scheme delivered very little

subsidy to farmers..............

http://www.globalasia.org/V6N3_Fall_2011/Peter_Warr.html

Thanks for leading me to this article by Warr. I'd agree with nearly everything he has to say, but would still maintain that Abhisit's govt was trying to be populist in its own way, with the rice price guarantee and removing the 30 B healthcare scheme to become free. However, the Democrats never went as far as the Shinawatra clan, especially over the present rice subsidies and minimum wage measures, which I agree will come back to haunt Pheua Thai in future, hurt taxpayers in the short term and punish all rice farmers in the medium to long term, when it becomes crystal clear that such measures are absolutely unsustainable and may indeed send millions of farmers to the wall (which is maybe what Thaksin and his co-plotters secretly want, so they can clear up on the remaining land that isn't yet theirs?)

[ratcatcher]

Plachon.

Indeed you are correct in your comments post # 53,

However this current maladministration have fine tuned the original rice pledging scheme into a conduit for self enrichment of a selected few and of course as a vote buying ploy.

As I said the whole revamped scam scheme is designed to benefit a few and the majority are going to have to pay the bill..

Never in the history of Thailand have so many been cheated out of so much by so few

Mosha post # 56.

Correct, Abihisits plan was that the farmer received the payments not the select few politicians.

"Never in the history of Thailand have so many been cheated out of so much by so few"

There's millions of tons of grains of truth to that statement, which I hope will be writ large in Thai records and history books.