Caught Drink Driving In Thailand And Put In Prison

[Star Dust]

Everytime I come to this thread it does look like the OP has thrown a banana in the monkey cage, and all the monkeys are fighting for it.

Case closed. Next thread, pls.

[FritsSikkink]

Ohhh and here we go

Quotes from OP

"once it was my turn to be sentenced the judge layed down my punishment in Thai and I could see in the police mans face it was no good, 32 days in pattaya special prison"

There goes your "factual" theory of your points 1, 2 and 3

"after the prison sentence we went to the provincial court with the police man and he talked to clerks and the judge said no you can't go home for maybe 6 or so months,"

And there goes the rest of your theory's

Good idea to read first before posting , especially if you do not want to be making blind assumptions making one look stupid(as you so eloquently put it)

Yep mate you could very well be correct I could be some kind of 2 bob mug making blind guesses to look important or maybe I have been talking to him constantly on PM all day yesterday and today and the reason for the holes in his first post was because he had left it up to a thai contact to deal with who never explained anything rather than use a lawyer in the first place. Who knows.........

If he has time to answer your PM's, he could answer some questions raised here too.

[SteeleJoe]

Considering all the bashing so far - I feel contrary right now so I'll make an unpopular viewpoint.The whole purpose of the law is to punish people who harm others, right?Looked at in this light, isn't the whole DUI bit based on a bit of pre-crime?ie. You *might* hurt someone, therefore you are guilty and must be punished.Did he injure anyone?I fear drunk drivers as much as anyone - but I think the above should be recognised even by the "hang-em-high" mob.(watch the movie if you never have)I have spent some time in Brazil. They have drink driving laws there too. If you get stopped and tested and fail then you are fined and lose 7 demerit points(translate demerit points into your own understanding) The license allows 28 demerit points so you don't lose your license for drink driving. However drink dirve AND have an accident and you are in very deep sh!t indeed.Thanks - as I said before - I agree with the medical evidence, and at my age, having quite a lot of experience in the effects of alcohol - haha - I wouldn't attempt to drive.But... The penalties in western countries - which most of the posters seem to believe are correct - seem.....unfair in the case where no actual harm has been caused. Brazil seems to understand that - actual harm should be punished - possible harm? That's the realm of social re-education.That's the purpose of a debate, many thanks Mudcrab for understanding my post.

I wonder how the responders would take it if the shoe was on the other foot, you bunch of self righteous gits. Yeah yeah we all know DUI is bad. Give the guy a break and help answer his question instead of reading him the riot act. If ya all want blood goto Saudi Arabia where you can get a front row seat for a multitude of punishments.

True indeed! The usual armchair lawyers and the usual black cap judges passing sentence - Half this country is going around on Alcohol, drugs and medication, a lot of the remainder are below the IQ that would render them mentally retarded. Yes getting in and driving a car pissed is not a good idea, and yes, if you then have a bump, crash and damage property or worse still injure someone or kill them then personally I believe you should be dealt no mercy whatsoever. However, from the OP's story, he just got caught pissed driving he didn't hurt anyone - It is a bit like saying that if you walk around the kitchen at home drunk carrying a knife when you are cooking a fry up you are almost attempting murder. (Some people have high alcohol tolerance - some people are functioning alcoholics - it all depends on the situation) - I would find it pretty OTT to deport someone on a drink drive charge if this is his residence - I mean look at the UK, they cannot even imprison people that are sworn enemies and trying to set bombs off - They take 10 years to deport, cost tax payers millions and their families are given larger government paid for housing! Perspective! - Pay the fine and let it go - injure someone, damage property or whatever, then you should pay and pay and pay.

Err...no. Law isn't merely about punishment as an end in itself, it's about deterrence and reduction/prevention of crime. People that think that someone shouldn't be punished harshly for something that puts others at serious risk just because by SHEER LUCK doesn't horribly injure or kill people - well, you either aren't thinking clearly or aren't being honest with yourself.

If start throwing blocks of cement out of an apartment window and none of them happen to hit the passing schoolchildren below, would it be "in the realm of social re-education" if I were harshly punished for that "pre-crime"?

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[SteeleJoe]

Everytime I come to this thread it does look like the OP has thrown a banana in the monkey cage, and all the monkeys are fighting for it.

Case closed. Next thread, pls.

You get enough attention on your own thread, don't you? Don't let it bother you if people want to comment on this one too. Isn't being condescending and superior on that one enough?

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[MrHammer]

Your own freedom stops exactly at the point where your freedom infringes on others.

[mungostjohn]

There is one way you could have avoided all this mess.

[mungostjohn]

There is one way you could have avoided all this mess.

DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE!

[metisdead]

A nonsense post has been removed.

[Judo Chop]

Look at all the self righteous folk giving the OP a serving.

He did the crime and the time. You want him hung drawn and quartered too?

I'd love to know how many of you have driven or ridden even partly intoxicated but didn't get pulled over by the police to be punished but still feel it's ok to pass judgement on others?

[Para]

Look at all the self righteous folk giving the OP a serving.

He did the crime and the time. You want him hung drawn and quartered too?

I'd love to know how many of you have driven or ridden even partly intoxicated but didn't get pulled over by the police to be punished but still feel it's ok to pass judgement on others?

And this is the exact reason I advised him to stay away from posting more! He is in touch with 3 BM's who certainly don't condone his actions but he knows he was wrong and is accepting whatever punishment is decided by the courts and are trying to help him understand whats going on.

Far too many self righteous BM's here at times in blatent self denial. As you and others have said will the people who have NEVER 1 time driven whilst even slightly over the limit please stand up.

[Bluenose BKK]

At the end of the day if you drive drunk on a motorbike the only person you are likely to kill is yourself,provided you have no pillion passenger!Cars are a different matter entirely.
BTW I do neither as Bangkok has great public transport!

[Para]

At the end of the day if you drive drunk on a motorbike the only person you are likely to kill is yourself,provided you have no pillion passenger!Cars are a different matter entirely.

Sure but a bike can still easily kill a person.

BTW I do neither as Bangkok has great public transport!

That's it rub it in!

[Para]

OK open question whats worse a drunk driver or a driver high on drugs?

The reason I ask is the police are always setting up road blocks in Pattaya drug testing people. Recently in one Soi they caught 80 people with drugs in their system in 2 hours. Not good.

Who has EVER seen a motorcycle taxi stopped and tested? I have never once heard of it yet we come out of the bars lagging drunk jump on the back of any bike weaving in and out of traffic no helmet basically with our lives in their hands. How many times without knowing are the bikes driven by a guy loaded on Yabba?

Long distance truck drivers? Coach drivers? And the favorite one minivan drivers!

I read today Thailand is the 6th worst country in the world for traffic accidents cant all be drunk tourists can it?

Not trying to deflect the OP's DUI onto anyone else just getting a perspective of where the real dangers are on the roads.......

[nevets]

Its just something I hate having a relative killed by a drunken driver does kinda bring the point home.

I could not care less what kind of drugs people do as long as they don't drive under the influence of them. I am all for freedom, but not when it means I am at a higher risk. So i for one am quite happy that they sometimes take a DUI serious. Would be better if it was always.. but baby steps baby steps.

I have never had to suffer that pain and I wouldn't want to. Problem that causes in my case is no emotion of hard memories just a problem to solve.

Mind you I think I would say a drunk Farrang driving is still safer than a sober Thai.

And I say you get the award for the most idiotic post of the week.

And i say come and see the Thai drivers where i live .

[lemoncake]

Its just something I hate having a relative killed by a drunken driver does kinda bring the point home.

I could not care less what kind of drugs people do as long as they don't drive under the influence of them. I am all for freedom, but not when it means I am at a higher risk. So i for one am quite happy that they sometimes take a DUI serious. Would be better if it was always.. but baby steps baby steps.

I have never had to suffer that pain and I wouldn't want to. Problem that causes in my case is no emotion of hard memories just a problem to solve.

Mind you I think I would say a drunk Farrang driving is still safer than a sober Thai.

And I say you get the award for the most idiotic post of the week.

And i say come and see the Thai drivers where i live .

Did not realize where you live was a role model for the nation

[thehelmsman]

1000 baht per tire is how I've been told the fine goes - In the North East.

[Neeranam]

1000 baht per tire is how I've been told the fine goes - In the North East.

My buddy, who is 150kg would pay a fortune!

[lemoncake]

1000 baht per tire is how I've been told the fine goes - In the North East.

My buddy, who is 150kg would pay a fortune!

Per tire, NOT per kilo

[FunFon]

I read today Thailand is the 6th worst country in the world for traffic accidents cant all be drunk tourists can it?

Not trying to deflect the OP's DUI onto anyone else just getting a perspective of where the real dangers are on the roads.......

-

No one's claiming that foreigners are the source of the problem, but if you're trying to claim that being a foreigner entitles you to leniency I doubt you'll get many to agree.

The solution to the problem is harsh penalties applied across the board, and certainly those who drive for a living, especially carrying passengers should get priority attention, not just for alcohol but stimulants as well.

Don't know if they're still so effective in Australia, but when I lived in a country town there, the chances of an evening of being breathalised heading into town were well over 50%, nearly 100% on weekends, so the pubs ended up sponsoring vans to ferry their customers .05 first strike 6 months suspension I think, second time 1 year 3rd permanent lost of the privilege to drive, and out in whoop-whoop that was a harsh consequence. . .

I remember wishing they were as sensible in the States, would have saved tens of thousands of needless casualties per year.

[SteeleJoe]

Look at all the self righteous folk giving the OP a serving.

He did the crime and the time. You want him hung drawn and quartered too?

I'd love to know how many of you have driven or ridden even partly intoxicated but didn't get pulled over by the police to be punished but still feel it's ok to pass judgement on others?

I feel it's OK to "pass judgment" (when it comes to matters that affect society as a whole) as long as 1) I don't claim to be without faults 2) don't also have as much or more disdain for myself when I am as wrong 3) don't complain if people hold me to the same standard and similarly criticize when I fail to meet it.

Whether someone gets pulled over or not doesn't make an action any more or less ethical so I don't understand the question but I have both ridden (not sure why that matters) and driven partly intoxicated. It was wrong and there are no adequate excuses for it - when I did or when anyone else does.

No contradiction there.

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[Para]

-

No one's claiming that foreigners are the source of the problem, but if you're trying to claim that being a foreigner entitles you to leniency I doubt you'll get many to agree.

Only a fool would try and leverage a nations driving accident statistic for more lenient sentencing of foreigners!

The law of the law rules its as simple as that. We go and get drunk here and its cool. Go the the middle east and you are banged up.

My post was simply to highlight the dangers of driving/riding on Thai roads........

[lemoncake]

I read today Thailand is the 6th worst country in the world for traffic accidents cant all be drunk tourists can it?

Not trying to deflect the OP's DUI onto anyone else just getting a perspective of where the real dangers are on the roads.......

-

No one's claiming that foreigners are the source of the problem, but if you're trying to claim that being a foreigner entitles you to leniency I doubt you'll get many to agree.

The solution to the problem is harsh penalties applied across the board, and certainly those who drive for a living, especially carrying passengers should get priority attention, not just for alcohol but stimulants as well.

Don't know if they're still so effective in Australia, but when I lived in a country town there, the chances of an evening of being breathalised heading into town were well over 50%, nearly 100% on weekends, so the pubs ended up sponsoring vans to ferry their customers .05 first strike 6 months suspension I think, second time 1 year 3rd permanent lost of the privilege to drive, and out in whoop-whoop that was a harsh consequence. . .

I remember wishing they were as sensible in the States, would have saved tens of thousands of needless casualties per year.

In Australia, driving drunk is considered criminal offense and if caught you would be criminally charged.

First time, as you said loss of license, 2 year probation and $2200 fine.

Second time, you get locked up for sure, the length is determined by how much money you willing to spend on a good lawyer.

As i mentioned earlier, i have personal experience on 3 occasions(not me) but my guests and all went to court, got fined 2000 baht and were set free without so much as a stamp in the passport.

Not so long ago, i recall a post where 1 member was caught, tried to use lawyers to get bail, but could not.

Went to court with lawyer, fined 2000 baht and set free, however to keep his WP and Business Visa from memory he had to pay extra 25K or so.

OP's case is rather very strange, though very possibly his "well connected" friends made it worse or milking him

On all 3 occasions to which i was a witness to, bus load of drunk drivers was delivered to the court, all got the same sentence and were actually judged at the same time.

[Para]

OP's case is rather very strange, though very possibly his "well connected" friends made it worse or milking him

That mate is looking to be the case.

Look I told him to stay off the thread because he would simply be attacked for stupidity something he knows and looking at the volume of threads would of been destroyed.

He is FINALLY talking to a Thai/English lawyer and we are working out whats happened and whats going to happen.

Small update which answers as many questions as it generates

He was nicked and held in a police cell paid 20k to get out went to court the next day, received the 20k back and pleaded guilty to DUI.

He was sentenced to 32 day jail. By all accounts harsh but he is adamant it was a sentence not remand. Now 5 days into his 32 day sentence he gets offered 'bail' to come out. This totally loses me. He then applied to the court for his PP as he had to get back to work and the judge refused saying the PP would be held till the full 32 days are up and then he would have to wait for the clerks to find and return his PP. His 'friend' got involved again and managed to get the judge to issue a permission to travel with the condition he came back on the 15th March. He came back and went back to court (for what we have no idea yet) and was then granted another permission to travel for 6 months. He is now outside of Thailand with passport being held here.

He has no idea if he is on bail, suspended sentence or what!

He knows he was wrong and accepts as he put in his first port. He is accepting whatever decision is going to be given but we cant understand what on earth is going on. Hence his post.

[simple1]

Para: You say his passport is held by the Thai authorities, just curious how can he enter and exit another country without a passport?

[Para]

Para: You say his passport is held by the Thai authorities, just curious how can he enter and exit another country without a passport?

Understandable question.

When arresting a foreighner the first thing they want is the PP. Firstly to checy you are here legally secondly to stop (read - make it hard) to leave the country.

If someone after arrest is able to make bail they can with 'good reasons' apply to the court tor a 'permission to travel' document. Having no money is not accepted as being 'good reason' in Thailand.

The PTT with stipulate leave and return date and is ((% of the time only issued when an additional bond is offered. Its normally the same amount as the bail amount.

When leaving the country you show the PTT to immigration and you can pass. Because its court issued they don't question overstays or stuff like that.

When you return to Thailand you return the PTT to the court and you PTT bond is returned. They still obviously keep you initial bail money till the case is resolved. If you wish to leave again the whole process has to be gone through again. Lawyer presents reason for needing a PTT, judge decides and stipulates the amount of bond and if you are lucky off you go.

PTT's are a lot harder to get now especially from BKK courts because people were going home and not coming back. The fact this kid has been able to get 2 means he must have some connections but at what price I have no idea.

With me?

[Spoonman]

In Australia, driving drunk is considered criminal offense and if caught you would be criminally charged.

First time, as you said loss of license, 2 year probation and $2200 fine.

Second time, you get locked up for sure, the length is determined by how much money you willing to spend on a good lawyer.

Which state/Territory are you talking about ?

Edited March 24, 2013 by Spoonman

[simple1]

Para: You say his passport is held by the Thai authorities, just curious how can he enter and exit another country without a passport?

Understandable question.

When arresting a foreighner the first thing they want is the PP. Firstly to checy you are here legally secondly to stop (read - make it hard) to leave the country.

If someone after arrest is able to make bail they can with 'good reasons' apply to the court tor a 'permission to travel' document. Having no money is not accepted as being 'good reason' in Thailand.

The PTT with stipulate leave and return date and is ((% of the time only issued when an additional bond is offered. Its normally the same amount as the bail amount.

When leaving the country you show the PTT to immigration and you can pass. Because its court issued they don't question overstays or stuff like that.

When you return to Thailand you return the PTT to the court and you PTT bond is returned. They still obviously keep you initial bail money till the case is resolved. If you wish to leave again the whole process has to be gone through again. Lawyer presents reason for needing a PTT, judge decides and stipulates the amount of bond and if you are lucky off you go.

PTT's are a lot harder to get now especially from BKK courts because people were going home and not coming back. The fact this kid has been able to get 2 means he must have some connections but at what price I have no idea.

With me?

Maybe, bit confused, as I said just curious... are you saying when PTT is issued, his passport is returned to him and simultaneously the Court ordered Immigration stop order on his passport is lifted? If he fails to return to Thailand, bond is confiscated, arrest warrant issued & Immigration notified?

[Para]

Maybe, bit confused, as I said just curious... are you saying when PTT is issued, his passport is returned to him and simultaneously the Court ordered Immigration stop order on his passport is lifted? If he fails to return to Thailand, bond is confiscated, arrest warrant issued & Immigration notified?

No chance!

The PTT is issued in place of your passport. There will (should) also be an immigration marker against his name.

If he chooses to come back then yes bail, PTT bond, arrest warrant and immigration notification. also if the crime is serious enough possibly Interpol.

[monty]

The PTT is issued AND you get your passport as well.

Without your passport you simply would't be able to enter another country apart from maybe your home country. No airline would board you without having passport in.hand.

The security you pay to get your passport/ptt is returned when you come back and surrender your passport again.

My guess, he is now on bail pending an appeal. Same way most hiso Thais avoid jail, you can stay out on bail pending all appeals which can drag on for years!

[Para]

The PTT is issued AND you get your passport as well.

Without your passport you simply would't be able to enter another country apart from maybe your home country. No airline would board you without having passport in.hand.

The security you pay to get your passport/ptt is returned when you come back and surrender your passport again.

My guess, he is now on bail pending an appeal. Same way most hiso Thais avoid jail, you can stay out on bail pending all appeals which can drag on for years!

My lawyer explained it slightly differently. You dont get your PP back the conditions of the PTT are quite strict as are the dates you have to be back. Holding your PP is leverage to get you to return. You do get the PTT bond back once you return back to the ountry as you say.

There are 3 levels of courts here in Thailand 1st Criminal, 2nd Appeal, 3rd Supreme. You can (in theory) be bailed at any level but the higher up you go the more it costs. Being bailed at the 1st court does as Monty states allow you to stay out during all appeal. From arrest to the finish of passing up to Supreme can take up to 10 years.