Young Thai Marriages.

[David48]

.

How young is too young … has the laissez faire attitude taken over?

Friend of my gf’s niece, aged 14.

Nice enough girl, have met her a few times, always polite.

Dropped out of school.

Has moved into an apartment and living with her boyfriend
(roughly the same age from what I understand, employed).

After a little searching she now has a regular job and, with a little arm twisting

from me, attends Sunday School … (those living in Thailand will know what this is).

Mother has taken her to the Clinic for the contraceptive injection

which lasts 3 months.

Most of what I know of Thai Law, it’s an illegal arrangement from most angles.

Mums nice enough also, smart where it counts and not on the
game … 100% sure about that.

What gets me is the laissez faire that her mother takes to parenting and,

if one looks a little closer … not uncommon in other families, here, and

the rest of the world.

At age 14, is she too young to make the important decisions?

From your experiences, has this seemingly relaxed attitude to parenting

helping the children?

What do you think?

.

[PoorSucker]

I think I'll edit the topic title.

[FunFon]

This is totally normal for most of poor and/or rural Thailand, and in fact it's only recently that there's been any awareness that much of the "modern" world thinks there's something wrong with people getting married and having babies that young.

The "laws" you're talking about were only put in place to satisfy pressure from our back-home western governments, and usually enforced only where westerners are involved, usually at the behest of western embassy law-enforcement (Christian) NGOs etc.

In local-on-local relationships, where the parents know about and go along, the authorities here stay out.

As should we IMO, not appropriate to presume we know better.

Actually the fact that they're using effective contraception makes this one of the most heart-warming stories of wise parenting I've come across in that sector.

[David48]

A thought provoking response above ...

As said in the OP ... the Mother is a normally adjusted person and worldly wise.

But it's the latitude (and attitude) that the kids can have those personal freedoms at such a young age is what concerns me.

Fair's fair though. Thus far, she seems to be doing OK ... but I can see cliffs everywhere ... I just hope she doesn't fall.

[krisb]

At 14, It's illegal in our country David, and with respect for Thailand, it's still how I feel.

Thanks you just reminded me I need to put another payment on my first shotgun! Something that goes with having a daughter.

[David48]

At 14, It's illegal in our country David, and with respect for Thailand, it's still how I feel.

Thanks you just reminded me I need to put another payment on my first shotgun! Something that goes with having a daughter.

It's an assumption that they 'consummated' their relationship, and I don't know it for a fact either way ... but I hear you.

But the young lady left home of her own free will.

Mum sanctioned this by her in-action.

Such is life in the City (Bangkok).

.

[Scully]

That's life in the sticks

Pregnant soon after, he disappears and the bar gets another worker after a few years.

I have seen 13 year old kids get married around here because mum found out they were having sex. It's been like this for generations, it can't change overnight, even if we want it to.

Good on mum for contraception, jobs etc. I personally wish they would all use it but like any country teenage pregnanacy is growing

[rene123]

I was going to say the same thing as Scully. It seems to be a way of life in the rural villages. I've visited many on motorbike rides and there doesn't seem much for teenagers to do... other than work in the fields with their parents. Sex is the next best thing when puberty strikes.

There is an old saying... "How do you keep them down on the farm after they've seen Paree." That pretty much says it all. Even the rural villages have cel phones and internet today. The teenagers DO see what others have and they want some of the same.

Thank heavens the mother made sure the young girl has at least taken some precautions for possible pregnancy.

[FunFon]

What I don't get is the idea that this is a "growing modern trend".

I see it as the way things have been traditionally, and the idea of waiting until you've got a career, or even women having a career is the recent innovation.

This is one of the good things about the sin sot by the way, it does show that the guy's got at least some ability to scrape some money together even if we think 25 or 50K's not much, it's a lot for a labourer here.

One good countervailing custom is that girls shouldn't get involved with guys while they're still studying, but of course parents don't have as much oversight as they used to, and among the demographics we're talking about here it's relatively rare for a girl to stay in school past 14. . .

I know many families where everyone actually contributing income is under 15. . .

[thaicbr]

They just have to wait until 15 then can get married all legal.

[Bluetongue]

What I don't get is the idea that this is a "growing modern trend".

I see it as the way things have been traditionally, and the idea of waiting until you've got a career, or even women having a career is the recent innovation.

This is one of the good things about the sin sot by the way, it does show that the guy's got at least some ability to scrape some money together even if we think 25 or 50K's not much, it's a lot for a labourer here.

One good countervailing custom is that girls shouldn't get involved with guys while they're still studying, but of course parents don't have as much oversight as they used to, and among the demographics we're talking about here it's relatively rare for a girl to stay in school past 14. . .

I know many families where everyone actually contributing income is under 15. . .

Look I agree with most of what you are saying, except I cant let the "guy's got at least some ability to scrape some money together etc" go. You are kidding right, his parents have to scrape it together otherwise they will lose face. How do they do it, borrow it of course, 20k or more and thats a lot of money for a poor family. Its one reason I wont lend for, my view is if the guy wants to play why should I have to pay. I have seen numerous of these things and the guy has never paid a baht back to his parents or made the slightest effort. Sure they want phones and internet if someone else is paying. In the context of the wider problem of rural youth and lack of opportunities there is a whole debate to be had but in the pure aspect of parenting the OP is talking about Thai parents dont have a good handle on what their kids are up to, in my opinion, nor do they have good techniques for dealing with problems, they rouse on them for a minute, the child says nothing, admits to nothing and it is all forgotten 5 minutes later. And I'm not on a pedestal here, I think it probably applies to farang equally.

[wolf5370]

It's always an arbitrary number, which differs from country to country, culture to culture. Just like age of consent. Some 12 year old may be able to cope with the responsibility and some 18 year olds might not; it is a fairly modern invention anyway - hundred years or so ago and 12 was the normal marriage age for girls (first flowering). Reason it has changed, people live longer now and people do not like the thought of old men with 12 year old girls. Really it is about the age gap and not the age itself - otherwise it would always have been 16/18/20 whatever.

Once upon a time kids grew up quick - then as society became more affluent (the west of course) children could be pampered longer and maturity (not in a biological sense) was delayed (20th century mostly) - then as "freedom" came into play from the so called "sexual revolution" of the 60s, kids started growing up quicker again, only this time only from a sexual stand view and not necessarily from a maturity one.

So, which is worse: kids having sex (and kids) out of wedlock - or kids getting hitched (however temporarily) and having sex (and kids) in wedlock? For me, it doesn't make much difference, but for society in general it does.

Kids will have sex - has always been the case, Juliet was 12 in Shakespeare's play - the better question is "how can we make it safer for them?" and not "How can we stop them?", because we can't stop them.

[FunFon]

I don't have experience with many families where the parents have more resources than the teenagers. Not saying they don't exist out there, but with most of the ones I know where there's no farang involved the oldies are dependent on the young ones.

I've been at plenty of weddings where the guy had scrimped and saved for five+ years to get the bride price together, in some cases the couple did it together living together without mum and dad knowing.

[teacher17]

Hmm...I have yet to meet a teenager that young who has been married, and I live in quite a rural area. However, my sister-in-law had to get married with her BF when she was 19, because her parent's wouldn't let them live together if they weren't married. Another girl in the village (maybe 17 or 18) got pregnant, and right after, she got married with the father. I don't think it's an upward trend though...14 is way too young in my opinion. No way I would have wanted to be married that young...perhaps they had relations already and were forced to marry?? Who knows...

[David48]

Can we move away from the 'sex' side of it and a little more towards the ...

What gets me is the laissez faire that her mother takes to parenting and, if one looks a little closer … not uncommon in other families, here, and the rest of the world.

At age 14, is she too young to make the important decisions?

From your experiences, has this seemingly relaxed attitude to parenting helping the children?

What do you think?

... just asking like ...

[Neeranam]

Mums nice enough also, smart where it counts and not on the

game … 100% sure about that.

Why would you/us assume she was working as a prostitute? Rather a strange thing to say. Are prostitutes' children more likely to get married young? I doubt it - not many Thais would agree to their kid marrying the kid of a prostitute?

Back in my native Scotland kids this young are having sex. It's too young there to get married and have kids I think but not too young here - totally different culture.

Here a 60 year old man can marry a 25 year old woman and nobody bats an eyelid. In my home town, many would think this is unacceptable. Strangely, it's many of the people coming for one of the different cultures that complain about some of the other ones. You can't have it all.

[rene123]

Of course 14 is too young to make important decisions in life, but it happens all the time. And, you can't take sex out of the picture because it is the driving force that makes these children try to take on adult decisions. Unfortunately, in third world countries like rural Thailand, it is young girls of 13 or 14 who carry the burden of their mistakes. They young horny boys just take a runner as soon as they realize they have to now work for a living and support a wife and child. Consequently, the grandmother takes over raising the infant and the young, abandoned girl goes into the city in hopes of making money to support her child. The father of the child is LONG gone and nobody bothers chasing him down.

[FunFon]

I know at least eight families, three right in my (ex) in-laws village where girls under 15 have borne children, one is 13.

In five cases the father of the child has stuck around and is taking responsibility, at least so far, but it's true it's mostly considered the women's responsibility here and there is little enforcement of child support except among the higher strata of society that are able to use the court system.

Note that unlike back home with the (IMO deeply flawed) concept of the "nuclear family", everyone does pitch in to help out when they can - of course it's best for the child if their biological mum can be around especially in the early years, but that isn't always possible and the youngsters heading off to where the jobs are leaving grannie to raise the spawn, while not perfect is IMO much better than the foster care, state homes etc resorted to back home.

And keep in mind the "legal marriage" aspect is irrelevant here, hi-so or low as our lovely PM illustrates so well.

[rattler]

Does it help them...........nope but it gets them out of the Parents hair, shell be up the duff before you know it ( yes i read the contraception bit) and her life will be over, he'll dump her and move on to the next one......

is what normally happens.

[Chonburiram]

Can we move away from the 'sex' side of it ...What gets me is the laissez faire that her mother takes to ...

Sooooo ,,, how old is her mother? Somewhere between 28- 35 ?

[cms989]

One thing I've noticed in comparison to American families, and actually this is true in most of the world, is the concept of family is not as narrow. In America it's usually husband, wife, kids, and to varying degrees other relatives but the core is what one usually considers their 'family.' Others are still family, but a different tier.. 'relatives.'

So if a kid is having a kid at 14, and that cycle continues, it seems you end up with a larger support system because grandma is only 50 when you're 20 and mom is 35. I'm not saying this is ideal mind you, but maybe it's not such a big deal to pop out a kid when you have so many relatives around who expect to share the burden.

Also consider the attitudes towards genders. In America women basically expect to have to support themselves, and so education and work experience are important. I can't speak for Thailand but in many cultures that isn't the case, she expects to make babies and find a man to support her. So her goal in life is basically procreation and finding financial support to raise children.

Sort of thinking out loud here, I guess my point is what is going on in the OP is probably the norm through history rather than the exception

[David48]

Mums nice enough also, smart where it counts and not on the

game … 100% sure about that.

Why would you/us assume she was working as a prostitute? Rather a strange thing to say. < snip >

What I wanted to do is to remove that assumption/argument from the replies so that the focus could be on the relaxed attitude to parenting that the childs mother appears to have.

If I didn't mention that, the conversation could have taken the wrong direction.

Not everyone here is as perceptive or free thinking as you are Neeranam.

.

[David48]

Can we move away from the 'sex' side of it ...What gets me is the laissez faire that her mother takes to ...

Sooooo ,,, how old is her mother? Somewhere between 28- 35 ?

Well towards the upper end of the age range you suggest.

.

[swissie]

How young is young.

All the big-shot philosophers in Greece (the cradle of civilaisation), had their "pleasure-boys or pleasure girls". Most certainly they were all "underage".

It is time eighter to acceppt the old greeks as the founders of liberal and democratic thinking, that were centuries ahead of their time, or just classifiy them as constantly drunk child molesters!

What will it be? The philosophical faculties of the world, will eventually have to come up with an answer.

This must come as a shock: There are regions on this globe, where a female is considered as an adult upon first menstruation. What follows is a natural course of events. As a matter of logic, the mother as well as the father are strictly "underage".

What would the old greeks say to such accusations, if brought to trial in todays environement? Probably very little, exept "Times do change". And by saying this, they will have a knowing smile on their face.

Cheers.

[Honkie]

Just one question, is it legal for doctors to adminster contraception injections to girls so young ? I mean , won't it affect her growth hormones ?

[FunFon]

Google only talks about one specific drug, Depo-Provera, which can affect bone density, and just says the doctor needs to consider the issue.

[Chonburiram]

Can we move away from the 'sex' side of it ...What gets me is the laissez faire that her mother takes to ...

Sooooo ,,, how old is her mother? Somewhere between 28- 35 ?

Well towards the upper end of the age range you suggest.

.

Sooooo ,,, let's assume " well towards the upper end " means she was impregnated at the age of 17?

What kind of attitude do you expect her to develop at that age?

It takes about 27 years and +10.000.000 ฿ to rear a doctor here ( I know what I am talking about, my stepdaughter is going through the process ...) she has no boyfriend and we are worried she ends up childless or as a " late " mother; with all the consequences connected to us - and believe me - we are at our breaking point...

btw, I like your style...

[chickenslegs]

Can we move away from the 'sex' side of it and a little more towards the ...

What gets me is the laissez faire that her mother takes to parenting and, if one looks a little closer … not uncommon in other families, here, and the rest of the world.

At age 14, is she too young to make the important decisions?

From your experiences, has this seemingly relaxed attitude to parenting helping the children?

What do you think?

... just asking like ...

I think you're a bit too quick to judge the mother.

It could be that the 14 year old is extremely willful, can not be told what to do and will not respond to parental control. Teenagers can be really tough to handle.

When these young girls 'fall' for someone it can often be as serious as life or death for them (we all had raging hormones in our teens, right?).

Giving the girl some freedom and contraceptive protection may be the only way to avoid a more serious situation. For example, running away getting pregnant, losing contact with the family, feeling suicidal or self-harming. All these things do happen to teenagers.

I'm not saying the mother is 100% right, just that what appears to be a casual attitude may just be an acceptance that this is the best she can do at the moment - and no bridges have been burned.

[shaggy1969]

From my Western thinking 14 is too young for her to be leaving the nest and setting up home with her boyfriend.

But.....

She is not Western,she is Thai and had probably learned to grow up a lot quicker than a Western girl would have to.

Probably from the age of seven years old she has been learning how to clean the home,cook food,help with planting and harvesting crops.....

Life is tougher in Thailand and the children,especially the girls grow up quicker than their Western cousins.......

[David48]

Some great replies above ... thanks ...

It's hard sometimes as a Western adult in Thailand when and where you should use your own moral compass. So I decided to steer away from that but promote heavily that the registration day (some months ago now) was soon upon them re the special Sunday School.

The feedback I have got through the gf is the young lady in question is regularly attending the Sunday School, still working and still maintains a close relationship with her Mum ... Dad is long gone apparently.

.