Can I Put Car Engine In Oil In My Four-Stroke Bike?

[fasteddie]

you'll be fine with with car oil in a bike.

Not at all true for the reasons already explained.

[Hog Head]

From my post on GT-Rider last week:

Most motorcycles, unlike cars, have a wet clutch, so besides the what oil is "better" discussion, it also behooves one to consider what oil
will not destroy my clutch. Combine the water cooled bike lower viscosity oils with a formulation that includes additional quantities
of molybdenum-based friction modifiers and you get the new Energy-Conserving GF-5 / SN designation shown in the API Service label
on the back of the container.

Dino or synthetic, I would be very reticent in using any brand of car oil with the latest GF-5/SN spec in a bike with a wet clutch.

Our saving grace is that diesel oil or automobile-specific heavier weights like Mobil 1 - 15W/50 do not carry this GF-5/SN designation
because of its higher viscosity. A higher viscosity oil's resistance to flow, is the reason why automobile-specific oils that are not energy
conserving have been used successfully in wet-clutch motorcycles without slippage problems.

Key to the clutch issue is the question of friction modifiers. The real issue is to avoid getting the friction so low, with very thin oils
containing extra amounts of friction modifiers, (usually high Moly levels) that clutches will slip under normal use.

Exxon-Mobil claims, that the formulation of motorcycle-specific Mobil 1 has none (??) of the friction modifiers that could lead to clutch
slippage in some wet-clutch motorcycles. A moot point as we cannot get M1 bike oil in Thailand, however most if not all "bike oil"
manufacturers make similar statements.

This is supposed to be the current compelling reason to avoid some automobile-specific formulations that now contain friction modifiers to
meet fuel economy mandates, when previously they did not. Wet-clutch slippage can be a problem, and seen more often when you use
the lower viscosity oils that are designated "Energy-Conserving" on the bottle.

In reality, all oils have friction modifiers - that's how oil does its slippery, oily, work.

ZDDP (Zinc Dialkyldithiophosphate), has been the chief anti-wear, extreme pressure, and anti-oxidant additive for decades. It is so
effective and low cost that it is virtually irreplaceable, which is why it survives all efforts to remove phosphorus (Ph) from oils to protect
the catalytic converter.

With modern oils putting caps on the maximum Ph allowed, other additives are now being used to supplement this old standard, such as molybdenum
anti-wear compounds and ashless anti-oxidants.

It is your bike and use what you like.

I believe that the best oil, and best available filter, (I like Purolator Pure 1 filters) is cheap insurance. In Thailand I buy fully
synthetic Mobil 1 Delvac, or Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Pickup oil as it has the highest ZDDP concentration of all the Mobil synthetics, and readily
available at Mobil Dealers locally or if on the road at many Esso tations. Just try buying some esoteric "bike" oil on the road

In Canada I run Mobil 1 - 15W/50 due to an even higher level of ZDDP than the diesel oils and exemption from the new API spec. Unfortunately,
like M1 bike oil, I have not seen this in Thailand

Be aware of the detrimental effect of high ZDDP levels if you have a CAT on your bike or even care if it is degraded by ZDDP

Synthetic oils typically have a greater viscosity index (VI) or the ability to retain viscosity over varying temperature ranges) over Dino
oils. The VI degrades over time, so change your oil often, or top up regularly , or you will tend toward wet-clutch slippage no matter what
type of oil you use

[Beardog]

Puuting Claires bike back in context. It is less than 10,000 baht bike that leaks & he is not going to be spending bucks on it to fix. So if the clutch gets thrashed 2 years from now who cares it is a work horse not a my baby kinda bike. I had our 3 wheel cart bike settup for 3 years It leaked as much oil as it did the day I bought it & the clutch slipped the same amount 3 years later 11,000 liko's later. I loaned it out all the time to people to use as an alternative truck & it never had anymore problems than it had if I didn't slam in engine oil. Just use a nondetergent oil if you can find if not Who Cares this is a rat bike at this point & does not have a powerplant so to speak to worry about. He probably get a couple years the way he is using this bike anyway having more than 1 bike. Oil on the road a drag but thats a different issue entirely. I used my 3 wheeler for 3 years & sold it for 5000 baht 1000 baht less than I paid for it. It is a thrasher no need to treat it like it is a superbike!

[Beardog]

I just looked at 3 different forums on oils for bikes.

About 70% of the people on the sites are still running conventional oil less the energy saving ratings & say they are having zero issues with clutch slippage. about 10% are the odd man outs complaining it actually caused slippage. the other 20% were obvious oil salesman trying to sell snake oil.

In Honesty I use top grade synthetic oil in my ER6n after breakin with non synthetic motorcycle oil as required.

My Kawasaki's all 12 superbikes & 14 hondas all had castol GTX motor oil & never once had a slipping clutch from popping wheelies & doing burnouts. I flogged a great deal of sprockets , chains & rear tires & launched a driveshaft once but no wet clutch problems. I am not saying that it isn't real in fact it can cause slippage but for a small scooter I highly doubt that would kill the clutch as most of us are over 50 on this site & you really don't hear of pcx's & Yamaha nuovos busttin a mean burnout leaving a trail of smoke 1/2 a kilo away & a wheelie , unless your a kid & have skinny tires I don't think anyone is apt to even attempt a wheelie! LOL.

So I think in all seriousness in a 10 year lifespan of a scooter only a few unfortunates will have any problems if they use reg motor oil without the energy saver rating. In fact my partner in The bay area only runs regular castrol auto oil & the VTX is still super snappy with reguards to the clutch. Although the bike is too heavy. I had one as well & it is just to damn heavy. I do seriously think that it is more of a marketing ploy than the real deal- That being said I can still afford the synthetic & will use it just to play it safe. An older scooter who cares & even if it causes clutch slippage it sure won't reduce the eventual price on the sale to go down by much. I tried to add with EDIT ( the earlier post) but it wasn't giving the option.

Edited March 30, 2013 by Beardog

[BirdsandBooze]

You can always rely on oil and fuel threads to become anal. As Beardog says - the bike is an old nail, why waste money on state of the art motorcycle oil. Some manufacturers recommend to use car oil in both the engine and wet clutch. My Honda 70 happily ran many miles lubricated by Duckhams 20/50 car oil with nary a hint of clutch slip. 2 Bullets I hired in India ran car engine oil in the wet clutch and one of them took me up into the Himalayas and all over Kashmir. Neither suffered clutch slip.

Edited March 30, 2013 by BirdsandBooze

[ClareQuilty]

...probably get a couple years the way he is using this bike anyway having more than 1 bike. Oil on the road a drag but thats a different issue entirely.

Just a little point about the 'oil in the road' - the oil leak is much too slow to effect the road. Its maybe a drop every few minutes or less, and takes nearly a whole month for the oil to get 'low'. So, it leaves a puddle in the parking area over a day or a week, but in a normal 5-10 kilometer trip there will only be a few tiny drops left on the road - not enough to cause anyone to slip or something like that.

[ClareQuilty]

Thanks all for your comments. Today I bit the bullet and spent 105 baht
to have the oil changed.. bike's running and driving fine, no apparent
damage after a week or two of running with about 50% car oil in it. I
did examine the oil when he drained it and the color did look really
weird - kind of a light-honey color

[VocalNeal]

You can always rely on oil and fuel threads to become anal. As Beardog says - the bike is an old nail, why waste money on state of the art motorcycle oil. Some manufacturers recommend to use car oil in both the engine and wet clutch. My Honda 70 happily ran many miles lubricated by Duckhams 20/50 car oil with nary a hint of clutch slip. 2 Bullets I hired in India ran car engine oil in the wet clutch and one of them took me up into the Himalayas and all over Kashmir. Neither suffered clutch slip.

Not so much anal as self serving.

I always use ABC super viscose fully synthetic with additives yes i pay more but it makes me feel good. You should as well!

[yasorab]

Standard petrol car engine oil is too heavy and viscous for small bike engines. It will work as a stop gap but used on a regular basis will seriously damage your motor. Honda 4T is your best bet. Its about 80 baht a ltr. and can be had from anyone who repairs or sells bikes. Hope that helps.

[harrry]

Like they say in the tV add. Oils aint oils.

[jayci]

...probably get a couple years the way he is using this bike anyway having more than 1 bike. Oil on the road a drag but thats a different issue entirely.

Just a little point about the 'oil in the road' - the oil leak is much too slow to effect the road. Its maybe a drop every few minutes or less, and takes nearly a whole month for the oil to get 'low'. So, it leaves a puddle in the parking area over a day or a week, but in a normal 5-10 kilometer trip there will only be a few tiny drops left on the road - not enough to cause anyone to slip or something like that.

Few drops here a few drops there. And a few million other crappy bikes with a few drops of oil, all adds up to very slick conditions when it starts to rain.

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