Thai Mother Want Child Back.

[Mario2008]

Child abuse has serious consequences, it is nice if you can help them but often it takes very professional to really help. Being loving and caring is often simply not enough. As a social worker for children I have seen many lives (and relationships) been devestated becasue of it.

A big problem is often to trust people and i have seen a few victims that destroy a relation if a person becomes to close for comfort to them.

You did what you could in your relationship with her and that is all you can do.

She was smart enough to give you the child to take care off and maybe getting the child back was more the ex-boy friends idea than hers. That is at least one thing you have to worry less about.

[ThomasBird67]

Hi again thanks for all your help. Now i clearly stated that i had the mothers permission to take my daughter to be raised in australia, attend school etc. So i did not abduct my child. www.ag.gov.au this is the attorney generals website in australia, i found all the answers to my hauge questions. There is specifically some categorical grounds for a non-returnal of an allegedly abducted child to the applicant. Interesting one of the main grounds for an almost auto-matic non-returnal of a child is in the case of where a parent has given permission to the other parent and then attempted to remitt the permission at a later date. From what an international family lawyer has advised me is that the longer it is left by the applicant party, (the party alleging the abduction) then the greater the chance that the child will not be returned. If the mother had say turned up to a police station within a day or so and complained then her case would be taken more seriously than say two months later. My lawyer advised me that as everyday goes by the greater chance that any application would be rejected by an australian family court. Other grounds include periods of 12 months or more or if i could show that she would be returned to a potentially dangerous/unsafe situation, or if i could show that her human rights would be at risk or any possibility of psychological, emotional or physical truma or abuse if she was returned there. So it seems that i would have 1 solid argument and a few other supporting pieces of evidence that her safety would be at risk. Im not exactly confident but from what i can see, a sudden change of heart by the mother for the reason that she may have found a new 'sponsor' and didnt need me in her life anymore is not reasonable grounds to assert that i abducted my child. It could also be said that since it is possible that any application would be declined by the australian family court, and then subsequently it would be found that according to via hauge convention i dieg not abduct my child, then it would also make sense that a thai court would not continue a prosecution, because the have ratified the convention, and then therefore they must certainly abide by it in some sense and i think they would not just willy-nilly persue child abduction cases against foreign nationals. If anyone could give me some real examples of parents who were charged by thai authorites with kidnapping after they were given permission to leave with their dual thai/foreign child by the thai parent and then at a later date that permission was revoked then i would be interested to hear.

It seems to me you only listen to info which is supporting your opinion and try to ignore the rest.

For the Thai court you are NOT the father and the mother has sole custody.

I don't think that your supporting arguments like road safety will be taken serious.

Dude there is no way in hell an Australian or any court is going to take a child away from its biological father and send it back to a third world country based on a complaint or even a court order from one of the most notoriously corrupt justice systems anywhere in the world.

[Bcgardener]

Not sure where in Australia you are but in Sydney there is a good Australian lawyer who deals almost exclusively with Thai clients on Australian visa matters. He has a good uderstanding of Thai law and may be worth talking to. He is in World Square near Chinatown. Unfortunately his name escapes me but I may have it in some old files. If so I will post it at a later date.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Mario2008]

Dude there is no way in hell an Australian or any court is going to take a child away from its biological father and send it back to a third world country based on a complaint or even a court order from one of the most notoriously corrupt justice systems anywhere in the world.

Not sure what the point is in reacting to a 2 month old thread. But. The Hague treaty on child abduction will see to that. Returning the child is almost automatically.

OP will do best by legitimising the child and seeking sole custody over the child, preferrably with consent from the mother.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

As you say, you are not married and the child was born in Thailand. That means you only become the legal fater if you legitimise the child, which you did not do. As a consequence, you are only allowed to take care of the child with permission of the mother. The mother can withdraw the permission at any time, at which point you will be kidnapping the child and can be subject to prosecution if you don't follow her request.

(As you didn't speak to the mother and she didn't send you a letter or such, you can asume she still didn't retract her permission. But that will be a matter of time).

What you should do right away is to legalise the child in Australia and become the legal father of the child, so you have the same rights as her and can start proceedings to get custody over the child and maybe a ban on the child leaving Australia without your permisison.

Get a competent lawyer with an expertise in family law as soon as possible and discuss your options with him. Act now.

I disagree.

The child already has Australian citizenship and passport, therefore it has been accepted that the father is Australian.

Thai jurisdiction is not important in this case. In Australia she could only sue for custody.

More effective use of funds would be to obtain photos of the mother working as a bar girl, Australian courts would never hand the kid back.

Edited June 19, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[Mario2008]

Legitimisation is a procedure, that must be done correctly. At embassies that is not always done according to procedure, often they will just asume that the Thai birth certificate is correct. But a Thai birth certificate only makes a claim by the reporter of the birth that a person is the father an does not legitimises a child.

If there is no ligitimisation, parental powers rest with the mother and an Australian court is bound by treaty to respect the Thai court. Under the treaty there is not much leeway in that.

[maccaroni man]

A DNA test will prove paternity and the combination of the child holding an Australian passport and a letter of consent from the mother granting you custody is surely enough to keep you out of jail and places the burden on the mother to travel to Australia to proceed in their court system regardless of what the Thai courant rule, prove paternity and stay out of Thailand

[Mario2008]

Paternity does not equals legal custody (or better said parental powers over the child) and the treaty on child abdution is about who has legal custody and the enforcement there of.

In cases of parental abduction the paternity is not the issue, who has been awarded custody is.

[theblether]

OP...... your getting sound advice from your lawyer and from many members here, your position appears to be strong.

You have also stated that your ex is crap at paperwork, to me your greatest danger is stirring up this new farang partner, who might decide to prove his love and virility by hiring Thai lawyers blah blah.

Don't phone back, respond in a calm manner to any emails of facebook messages, that's if you get any at all. Just get on with bringing your child up and stop worrying about things which are unlikely to happen.

What I would suggest to you though is to forget about taking the child back to Thailand any time soon, if ever. There's plenty of examples where fathers have returned to allow visitation and the child has been effectively abducted.

Just concentrate on your child and forget about Thailand.

[Jasun]

If she has Australian citizenship - by descent - then it's already been established that she's legally your daughter (in Australia). But getting a DNA test won't hurt, especially if you end up back in Thailand, which you'll obviously avoid. She may even have this other guy conned that the girl is his, i've heard it happen.

Do everything you can to have the mater settled in Australia. Perhaps get a PI onto her in Pattaya and find out exactly what she's up to over there. If matters get settled by Oz courts, the welfare of the child will come first, and things like her occupation and living circumstances will factor.

I hope the boyfriend isn't an active TV member.

Edited June 20, 2013 by Jasun

[Forethat]

Hi again thanks for all your help. Now i clearly stated that i had the mothers permission to take my daughter to be raised in australia, attend school etc. So i did not abduct my child. www.ag.gov.au this is the attorney generals website in australia, i found all the answers to my hauge questions. There is specifically some categorical grounds for a non-returnal of an allegedly abducted child to the applicant. Interesting one of the main grounds for an almost auto-matic non-returnal of a child is in the case of where a parent has given permission to the other parent and then attempted to remitt the permission at a later date. From what an international family lawyer has advised me is that the longer it is left by the applicant party, (the party alleging the abduction) then the greater the chance that the child will not be returned. If the mother had say turned up to a police station within a day or so and complained then her case would be taken more seriously than say two months later. My lawyer advised me that as everyday goes by the greater chance that any application would be rejected by an australian family court. Other grounds include periods of 12 months or more or if i could show that she would be returned to a potentially dangerous/unsafe situation, or if i could show that her human rights would be at risk or any possibility of psychological, emotional or physical truma or abuse if she was returned there. So it seems that i would have 1 solid argument and a few other supporting pieces of evidence that her safety would be at risk. Im not exactly confident but from what i can see, a sudden change of heart by the mother for the reason that she may have found a new 'sponsor' and didnt need me in her life anymore is not reasonable grounds to assert that i abducted my child. It could also be said that since it is possible that any application would be declined by the australian family court, and then subsequently it would be found that according to via hauge convention i dieg not abduct my child, then it would also make sense that a thai court would not continue a prosecution, because the have ratified the convention, and then therefore they must certainly abide by it in some sense and i think they would not just willy-nilly persue child abduction cases against foreign nationals. If anyone could give me some real examples of parents who were charged by thai authorites with kidnapping after they were given permission to leave with their dual thai/foreign child by the thai parent and then at a later date that permission was revoked then i would be interested to hear.

It seems to me you only listen to info which is supporting your opinion and try to ignore the rest.

For the Thai court you are NOT the father and the mother has sole custody.

I don't think that your supporting arguments like road safety will be taken serious.

Dude there is no way in hell an Australian or any court is going to take a child away from its biological father and send it back to a third world country based on a complaint or even a court order from one of the most notoriously corrupt justice systems anywhere in the world.

I would want to second this opinion, but an opinion is worth nothing. For this reason I want to ask if anyone knows of ONE case where a child has been returned to Thailand in a custody battle like this..??

Just give me ONE example and I'll change my opinion.