Thai Govt's Train Project ' Will Only Benefit The Rich'

[thaicbr]

I think they have a valid point, many people in Thailand cannot afford such luxuries as high speed trains.

IMO a better use for some of the $$$ would be to improve existing train services. The current trains in

service as in a poor state averaging 30-40 years old. Thought you had to walk before you can run but

with 30-40% off the top it is hard to pass up

Improve the existing trains services and upgrade the current highway/express ways first, but Thai Gov't

are not thinking of the majority

Maybe they ought to get rid of 5 star hotels and the airports as poor people cant afford these either.

The article does say they are upgrading existing trains, but high speed rail is a very good idea imho.

40 billion pound approx seems a decent price, in England theyre talking of building a high speed line from London to Birmingham for 30 billion and its only 160KM. Steel and trains cost the same no matter where you are.

The difference in the UK is that it costs a huge amount to buy up the land needed for the route, and to compensate people who live nearby. Also, workers cost much more in the UK. It's not just the cost of the steel and trains.

I accept wages are higher but the cost of the UK line pro rata is 8 times more.

Farm land in the UK and Thailand both compete in global markets to sell their produce thus i am guessing the prices of farmland are similar .... so it just shows that Britain is far more interested in giving huge subsidies to wealthy land owners.

Hahaha. Your guessing land in the Uk is the same price or similar to Thailand.

Unskilled labour Thailand min 300b per day. UK min 2.200b

And most Uk rail contractors would not be considered unskilled. So Jack that up to min 4.000b per day. Even if tge manual workers in thailand are skilled!!!! It would only be about 6-800 b a day. Easy to see why its more.

What are you going on about?

Do you think it would be in your interest to learn to read what people write before jumping in and commenting, also why the need to go in the quote boxes and alter things?

If you don't understand my post. No problem. As for altering you're quotes.. not me.. blame the TV Android app.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

[thaicbr]

Let's face it the ONLY reason this High speed train idea is seeing the light of day is that Thaksin wants it.

He rode one in China and decided Thailand should have one....... even though we haven't even got double track yet....the man's an idiot.

As others have said spend the money on modernization of the existing rail service and especially the roads. Create decent u-turns etc.

Really........

Thai opposition leader calls for early construction of high-speed rail linking China via Laos

BANGKOK, March 29 (Xinhua) -- Former Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva urged Thursday the government to build a high- speed railway to link Thailand with China via Laos at the initial stage of a historic 730-billion-U.S.-dollar logistics reconstruction scheme. (source CN people daily online) must have it wrong....unless you think Abhisit is an idiot too?

Abhisit an idiot... sometimes yes. Everyone has an idiot moment from time to time. Some more than others.

Don't be too hard on yourself there are many who struggle with the quotes edit

Including TV's Android App. I don't edit quotes.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

[Foggy Bottom]

Thai price Farung price, we will pay top fare.

Does Thai Airways, another government owned transport network, have dual pricing for domestic flights?

The farang paranoia on this forum is frightening at times.

If it is still in effect, then yes, Thai Airways do operate dual pricing - it was introduced sometime around 2005-6 whereby Thai nationals could show their ID card at the ticket counter and get a 20% discount off the quoted fare.

[NCFC]

And there were the same whinges and moans when the Skytrain was built "Too expensive for normal Thais".... blah,blah, blah, moan,moan,moan

And then the MRT was built and the whingers were at it again. "Too expensive, no one will use it..." blah,blah,blah

You'd think no TV member ever travelled on Skytrain or MRT as all this modernisation is just too expensive.

"HSR..." moan, moan, whinge....

The Sktrain (BTS) and the underground (MRT) are there to move Bangkok citizens and in town travelers around Bangkok.

Most of the riders are 'middle class or working class Thais living in and near Bangkok.

The so called HST (High Speed Train ) which is a new catchphrase for fast efficient railway will link half a dozen or so large cities in Thailand with Bangkok. The BTS & MRT are almost at capacity at peak times, not likely on the HST.

Thinking about the possibilities of such a system is a good thing, providing the corruption involved can be kept to a minimum (unlikely)

Better to upgrade, modernize the existing railway system with track ,signalling and rolling stock/locomotive purchases.

Maybe even add a few special cars for carrying gravy. Moan, whinge,carp & bitch x 2.

I was working here at the time of the Skytrain build and when fares of 15 baht for a journet were announced the letters to the newspapers were saying 'who would pay 15baht when you could take a hbus for 3 baht?' It was said to be too expensive for the normal Bangkokian. Well that turned out to be way off the mark, and likewise with the MRT. Again said to be too expensive, a white elephant, only the rich could afford it and they wouldn't leave their Mercs anyway.

It will be a great success and bring increased prosperity to the regions. A good project.

[rubl]

Been reading the whole thread. Depressing! It's like a subforum on Taliban-Visa. Stop all modernisation (sp), some poster even suggesting, buying 2hand trains from Europe. As for the headline, only for the rich, same goes for cars, so Thailand should stop selling cars?? Other poster suggesting dualtracking the existing railnetwork, don't you guys ever READ the local news, because that is one of the mainfeatures in the new infrastructureplan. Too dark on the barstool the read the paper ? Or is 30 baht (small Leo) too expensive to keep yourselves up-to-date ?

Living in Hua Hin the ticketprice going to Bkk would be around 600-700 baht, from citycenter to citycenter, yes I would use it, and I am sure many with me! And plenty of Thais can easilly afford the fares.

All the negativity on threads like this, IMO comes from the fact that, the political and economic power for the next century belongs to Asia and not our petty homecountries!

Don't know your age and for sure don't know when the HSR link BKK - HuaHin will be operational, but estimates today on ticket prices might be a wee bit off apart from you to have to wait another 10 odd years before you may be able to make use of a splendid, new, high-speed rail link. I can only hope you'll live that long

[rubl]

And there were the same whinges and moans when the Skytrain was built "Too expensive for normal Thais".... blah,blah, blah, moan,moan,moan

And then the MRT was built and the whingers were at it again. "Too expensive, no one will use it..." blah,blah,blah

You'd think no TV member ever travelled on Skytrain or MRT as all this modernisation is just too expensive.

"HSR..." moan, moan, whinge....

The Sktrain (BTS) and the underground (MRT) are there to move Bangkok citizens and in town travelers around Bangkok.

Most of the riders are 'middle class or working class Thais living in and near Bangkok.

The so called HST (High Speed Train ) which is a new catchphrase for fast efficient railway will link half a dozen or so large cities in Thailand with Bangkok. The BTS & MRT are almost at capacity at peak times, not likely on the HST.

Thinking about the possibilities of such a system is a good thing, providing the corruption involved can be kept to a minimum (unlikely)

Better to upgrade, modernize the existing railway system with track ,signalling and rolling stock/locomotive purchases.

Maybe even add a few special cars for carrying gravy. Moan, whinge,carp & bitch x 2.

I was working here at the time of the Skytrain build and when fares of 15 baht for a journet were announced the letters to the newspapers were saying 'who would pay 15baht when you could take a hbus for 3 baht?' It was said to be too expensive for the normal Bangkokian. Well that turned out to be way off the mark, and likewise with the MRT. Again said to be too expensive, a white elephant, only the rich could afford it and they wouldn't leave their Mercs anyway.

It will be a great success and bring increased prosperity to the regions. A good project.

In two, simple words BS. There're still lots of people in Bangkok who use the lesser priced busses and even the subsidized free busses. Yes the BTS is full at times, after 13 years of operation and a few line extentions. Imagine what could be if the BKK governor and his team had more seamless co-operation from the central government

The HSR passenger links seems to be destined to be white elephants for a long time. A normal speed, double-track rail link, reliable, working in the rainy season seems to make much more sense, even if it it less glamerous and some foreign posters here object

Edited March 30, 2013 by rubl

[soi41]

Thai price Farung price, we will pay top fare.

Does Thai Airways, another government owned transport network, have dual pricing for domestic flights?

The farang paranoia on this forum is frightening at times.

If it is still in effect, then yes, Thai Airways do operate dual pricing - it was introduced sometime around 2005-6 whereby Thai nationals could show their ID card at the ticket counter and get a 20% discount off the quoted fare.

Your source? The mate on the barstool to the left or right of you ??

[Publicus]

Just curious, has there been any announcements in parallel to this proposed project to increase the capability of the intermodal transportation hubs for the goods supply chain or is this outsourced to the business world? Also has the cost for maintenance factored in the ROI for the project? Below is an outline for European costs for maintaining a dual track rail network from 2009. You have to factor in lower labour costs in Thailand, but it isn't inexpensive.

"The other cost that is independent of the number of riders is track maintenance. One recent European estimate puts that cost at $140,000 a mile per year for a two-track system. A feasibility study of high-speed rail in Britain came up with the considerably higher figure of $493,000 a mile for surface trains"

True, but Beijing will be happy to pay for it while 700,000,000 PRChinese continue to live on less than USD $5 a day.

[soi41]

Been reading the whole thread. Depressing! It's like a subforum on Taliban-Visa. Stop all modernisation (sp), some poster even suggesting, buying 2hand trains from Europe. As for the headline, only for the rich, same goes for cars, so Thailand should stop selling cars?? Other poster suggesting dualtracking the existing railnetwork, don't you guys ever READ the local news, because that is one of the mainfeatures in the new infrastructureplan. Too dark on the barstool the read the paper ? Or is 30 baht (small Leo) too expensive to keep yourselves up-to-date ?

Living in Hua Hin the ticketprice going to Bkk would be around 600-700 baht, from citycenter to citycenter, yes I would use it, and I am sure many with me! And plenty of Thais can easilly afford the fares.

All the negativity on threads like this, IMO comes from the fact that, the political and economic power for the next century belongs to Asia and not our petty homecountries!

What thread you been reading.. it had been stated numerous times that it includes dual tracking the existing tracks. What's not clear is what comes first and WHY they need to get such a huge loan NOW for projects that are up to 7 years away from starting let alone completing. Most countries use their yearly budgets and if its a larger infrastructure plan they secure loans in principal after due diligence and on a per project basis. This idea about lumping them all together is pretty much what PT did for the 350 billion flood money. What's happened to that??? Or the allocation of budget for the new car owners scheme that has gone massively over budget because they kept extending it (but at least they have that money because the car makers already paid) but wait do they have the money due to the ever increasing burden of paying for overpriced rice and storing it.

If I was Thai I would want and insist that they upgrade the trains. But High speed train... nope don't need it. A decent modern railway is fast enough.

"that are up to 7 years away from starting"

Wrong!

Dualtracking has already started in some places (Korat and Prachuap) and the rest is projected to start no later than 2014.

As for HST. All 4 lines are to start this year.

Really! Could you quote your source please. With pictures if you have any.

I'm wondering how they can start anything without the funding and environment assessments completed. But if you have source material which clearly show that work has started I will eat humble pie.

Hope you are hungry. My source is Bangkok Post from yesterday (Saturday 30'th). "infrastructurebill sails through"

@rubl. According to the same source all HST-lines should be operational 2018, so don't worry about my age, I'll hang in there for another 5 years.

[soi41]

Just curious, has there been any announcements in parallel to this proposed project to increase the capability of the intermodal transportation hubs for the goods supply chain or is this outsourced to the business world? Also has the cost for maintenance factored in the ROI for the project? Below is an outline for European costs for maintaining a dual track rail network from 2009. You have to factor in lower labour costs in Thailand, but it isn't inexpensive.

"The other cost that is independent of the number of riders is track maintenance. One recent European estimate puts that cost at $140,000 a mile per year for a two-track system. A feasibility study of high-speed rail in Britain came up with the considerably higher figure of $493,000 a mile for surface trains"

True, but Beijing will be happy to pay for it while 700,000,000 PRChinese continue to live on less than USD $5 a day.

Ofcourse Beijing is happy to pay for better railroadnetworks in their neighbouring countries. Could come in handy in the future for sending in the troops in case of a foodshortage in The Peoples Republic!

[hellodolly]

Well reading the article a couple of things stood out to me one was the cost of using the train. I had assumed it would also haul freight which would definatly have an effect on the individual fare.

the article said.

""The government is not being reckless because we're working within a
feasible framework," he said. "For those who think the tickets [for the
high-speed train] will be expensive, I think everyone understands that
the target groups differ from those using double-track [ordinary]
trains, and that's why the government is investing in the ordinary
trains nationwide first. In order to serve people's needs, there are
more proposed double-track train projects than high-speed ones."

Now if I understand him correctly he is saying that other than put in two sets of tracks so a train will not have to pull off to the side and wait they will go to all the expense of another set of rails with no other improvement in the service and make no allowances for future needs.

They then went on to say

""As for our readiness, we have signed memoranda of understanding with
China, Japan and France to get people trained. As for the need for more
electricity, we have calculated that this project will only use 1 per
cent more power," Chadchart said."

Are they not already urging citizens to save power?

Also it was my understanding that China Japan and France used different systems. The cost difference between them was all most double if I recall correctly.

[Pi Sek]

"Bt1.30-Bt3.50 per km"

on the long route, like these 700km to chiang mai, the cheaper bracket will be used, so 700x1.3=930. That is comparable to existing fares on sleepers and saves a half day of travelling. It's also comparable to speed of airplanes, as getting to/from the airport, checking minimum 30 minutes before departure, getting to the gate, boarding, taxing takes a lot of time.

capitalism is about rich getting richer, but this project is building up infrastructure much needed in under invested thai economy.

in the recent debate about high speed rail in the uk there wasn't party division. Case of thai HSR is politicised, just for the sake of an argument. Democrats will not benefit from this debate, as it shows their short-term vision. In the times of deep economical crisis such projects can pull the whole economy through, give much needed employment

No. YOU are politicising it, just for the sake of an argument... or to highlight the "short term vision" of pointing out that the project is a scam.

It costs too much, doesn't have a realistic target market, and its costs have mysteriously doubled after a completely unqualified Peua Thai acolyte reviewed the budget required.

This project is simply indefensible with the numbers quoted. But we all know the only reason they're going ahead with it is so that a bunch of politicians can get their hands in the coffers.

[maidu]

The #1 proponent of the project: Mr. Thaksin (why else would PT be so self-assured and quixotic about ramming the expenditure through?). Mr. T has a reputation as a man with great business savvy, but check this out: While he was PM, it was brought to his attention that certain Thai fruits were not selling well enough. He devised a plan to have the largest Royal Thai Air Force jets fueled up and packed with the ripe fruit, to fly to Thai embassies in Europe (and elsewhere). The idea being: embassy staff would either eat the pallet-loads of surplus fruit themselves, or they would sell it - perhaps set up a fruit stall on the sidewalk in front of the embassy. Lo and behold, the fruit was over-ripe when it arrived, and was silently trashed.

As for the HS train and Thai common folk. There is no chance they will pay high prices to use it. Of my many acquaintances in Chiang Rai (which is not on any train route, so the closest link would be C.Mai) well over half are regular Thai folks and hill tribers. Every time they need to go to Bkk, they take the cheapest bus. No exceptions.

[khaowong1]

We don't have a decent passenger train system in the US.. we used to, but the govt. got tired of spending so much money on something that too few people used. It's a shame. I remember back in the 60's when there was a good train system. It was way fun to ride. Beats the heck out of bus and auto travel. But speaking of fare rates for this new high speed train, I just don't believe most Thai's would pay that kind of money.. like another person said on here, they are always traveling on the cheapest fare.

Edited March 31, 2013 by metisdead
: Font

[Ian Curtis]

But, in a recent previous post, didn't it mention that fresh vegetables would benefit?

[Ricardo]

Let's face it the ONLY reason this High speed train idea is seeing the light of day is that Thaksin wants it.

He rode one in China and decided Thailand should have one....... even though we haven't even got double track yet....the man's an idiot.

As others have said spend the money on modernization of the existing rail service and especially the roads. Create decent u-turns etc.

Really........

Thai opposition leader calls for early construction of high-speed rail linking China via Laos

BANGKOK, March 29 (Xinhua) -- Former Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva urged Thursday the government to build a high- speed railway to link Thailand with China via Laos at the initial stage of a historic 730-billion-U.S.-dollar logistics reconstruction scheme. (source CN people daily online) must have it wrong....unless you think Abhisit is an idiot too?

A Chinese news-agency reports that former-PM Abhisit still favours the Chinese proposal for a high-speed freight-line from Laos through Thailand ?

This is hardly news, or proof of idiocy or even a changed view, when it was DPM-Suthep who signed the Memorandum-of-Understanding with the Chinese in March-2011, to build the line costing B150-billion (US$30-billion at that time) from Nong Hai to Bangkok, as part of the China-Singapore land-link.

It was expected to take a year to survey the land/route, with construction to start end-2012, and the line to be open to the public in 2016. Some slippage there, but then there was a change of piggies government, which perhaps meant a certain degree of renegotiation of who might get to 'eat' benefit ?

IIRC the earlier reports on this proposal had suggested that it might be largely-financed by China, because it formed an essential part of their new China-Singapore freight-link, but this was all before the scandals about public-officials stashing away billions of dollars overseas, while the Chinese high-speed network was being built.

There was also about that time a proposal to build on the outskirts of Bangkok a large export-showcase sales/warehousing-development for Chinese companies to display their products, giving them access to the Thai market, regardless of the effect on Thai manufacturers, wasn't there ? Whatever happened to that deal ?

Anyway it would certainly make sense that the Chinese-government would finance the then-proposed link, if they wanted to maintain close-control of design/construction/operation of it, they were basically saying 'let us build what we want', no doubt with appropriate tea-money to the salivating & enthusiastic locals.

With the election won the current government then began to wonder about an even bigger payday, which might result from PTP's 'pre-election promise' of a high-speed passenger-network along all the existing SRT main-lines, regardless of whether or not it made economic-sense, and the original more-sensible freight-line proposal was derailed (pun intended).

But of course any such thing would need to be financed from another source, since the Chinese would be reluctant to pay for a passenger-network which was largely-irrelevant to their own needs. Which leads to the US$ 180-billion (B 2.2 trillion) infrastructure-loan now being debated in Parliament.

473geo is correct to doubt that the Big Boss is the only one driving this project, it was originally the Chinese-government looking for a new freight-route for their exports, enthusiastically supported here in Thailand.

But the scheme has transmogrified into a high-speed passenger-only network, since it doesn't really make sense to run large volumes of heavy-freight passing-though the country on the same lines as local-passengers wanting to reach the capital at 250km/hour.

But no doubt the usual suspects will pig out, whatever else changes, some things always remain the same !

Edited March 31, 2013 by Ricardo

[Sayonarax]

"Bt1.30-Bt3.50 per km"

on the long route, like these 700km to chiang mai, the cheaper bracket will be used, so 700x1.3=930. That is comparable to existing fares on sleepers and saves a half day of travelling. It's also comparable to speed of airplanes, as getting to/from the airport, checking minimum 30 minutes before departure, getting to the gate, boarding, taxing takes a lot of time.

capitalism is about rich getting richer, but this project is building up infrastructure much needed in under invested thai economy.

in the recent debate about high speed rail in the uk there wasn't party division. Case of thai HSR is politicised, just for the sake of an argument. Democrats will not benefit from this debate, as it shows their short-term vision. In the times of deep economical crisis such projects can pull the whole economy through, give much needed employment

​Because you don't have to do the same with a train? Travel to the terminal, check in your bags, walk down to train and pass a security check?

[Ricardo]

"Bt1.30-Bt3.50 per km"

on the long route, like these 700km to chiang mai, the cheaper bracket will be used, so 700x1.3=930. That is comparable to existing fares on sleepers and saves a half day of travelling. It's also comparable to speed of airplanes, as getting to/from the airport, checking minimum 30 minutes before departure, getting to the gate, boarding, taxing takes a lot of time.

<snip for brevity>

I believe the current line from Bangkok to Chiang Mai twists & backtracks so much, that it's over 900 km of track, this is part of the higher long-term operating-cost of building the line more-cheaply in the first place. But what can one expect from a ramped-up logging-line, drawing Lanna into Siam politically & commercially, when the roads/rivers in the early-1900s were an even-slower alternative ?

The current line avoids those expensive tunnels/cuttings under ranges of hills/mountains initially, but takes longer to get there on a slower track, and needing an extra locomotive to get over the high bit between Lampang and Lamphun. No wonder the bus is faster, it goes via a shorter, if not direct, route !

Whereas the plane flies over these natural barriers, I think Thai Airways say it's only (roughly) about 350 miles or 500 km, between the two ?

Whatever, a high-speed passenger-line will need to expensively take a shorter route than the current railway, no wonder SRT are doubling their tracks only as far as Den Chai, where the mountains & slow section really start, from then on it must become technically more-challenging, even with modern-day tunneling-technology & powered construction-equipment.

But will the passengers be willing to pay the higher fares required, to pay for for a faster route through the expensive-to-construct more-northerly parts, of the new high-speed passenger-only/largely rail-link ?

As always it would be interesting to peruse the economic-study which one hopes underlies this infrastructure-upgrade !

[maidu]

There was also about that time a proposal to build on the outskirts of Bangkok a large export-showcase sales/warehousing-development for Chinese companies to display their products, giving them access to the Thai market, regardless of the effect on Thai manufacturers, wasn't there ? Whatever happened to that deal ?

Yes, I remember that clearly.

That picture is the future - the way Chinese-Thai folks want to see it. Caution: they infiltrated less in to Tibet, before they took over that country. Could Thailand be a morsel to devour in the future? Probably not directly, but odd things can happen when the Thai people put complete faith in a small group of Chinese-Thai manipulators based in Bangkok.

[MaxLee]

ALL THOSE MEGAPROJECTS only benefit the rich and greedy Thai-Chinese Elite in power...

[billd766]

The #1 proponent of the project: Mr. Thaksin (why else would PT be so self-assured and quixotic about ramming the expenditure through?). Mr. T has a reputation as a man with great business savvy, but check this out: While he was PM, it was brought to his attention that certain Thai fruits were not selling well enough. He devised a plan to have the largest Royal Thai Air Force jets fueled up and packed with the ripe fruit, to fly to Thai embassies in Europe (and elsewhere). The idea being: embassy staff would either eat the pallet-loads of surplus fruit themselves, or they would sell it - perhaps set up a fruit stall on the sidewalk in front of the embassy. Lo and behold, the fruit was over-ripe when it arrived, and was silently trashed.

As for the HS train and Thai common folk. There is no chance they will pay high prices to use it. Of my many acquaintances in Chiang Rai (which is not on any train route, so the closest link would be C.Mai) well over half are regular Thai folks and hill tribers. Every time they need to go to Bkk, they take the cheapest bus. No exceptions.

I remember the fruit and the RTAF plan. The fruit was probably past its best by date and while it was shipped "free" it never really sold anyway.

From the prices given for the HST trip BKK to CM it wouls still be cheaper for me to take a 1st class bus 380 km down to BKK and another 1st class bus from BKK to Chiang Mai.

I could always get the baht bus to Khampaeng Phet and the bus up to CM or a bus down to Lay Yao and another to Nakhon Sawan and yet another to CM.

My nearest railway station is Nakhon Sawan 125 km to the south east or Phitsanulok 180 km to the north east.

The local people here would take the bus to BKK for about 250 baht one way or get to KPP and pay a little more to get to CM.

What most posters are missing on this thread is that outside of the bigger towns and cities there is NO, slow or HST and as for getting vegetables to the market quickly, ask yourself how will they get to the stations in the first place?

[Baerboxer]

"Bt1.30-Bt3.50 per km"

on the long route, like these 700km to chiang mai, the cheaper bracket will be used, so 700x1.3=930. That is comparable to existing fares on sleepers and saves a half day of travelling. It's also comparable to speed of airplanes, as getting to/from the airport, checking minimum 30 minutes before departure, getting to the gate, boarding, taxing takes a lot of time.

capitalism is about rich getting richer, but this project is building up infrastructure much needed in under invested thai economy.

in the recent debate about high speed rail in the uk there wasn't party division. Case of thai HSR is politicised, just for the sake of an argument. Democrats will not benefit from this debate, as it shows their short-term vision. In the times of deep economical crisis such projects can pull the whole economy through, give much needed employment

You miss the fundamental issues. The costs will be inflated to allow the high level scamming, contractors will skimp on quality to scam more, there won't be any effective project management (ala all the other big construction projects) so overruns, non-finished parts etc will be common.

This project is about providing another cash stream for those with their nose in the troughs, whilst also providing certain people with some good grandstanding pr opportunities.

[rubl]

^ bild766
It would seem that the 'bear' necessities would be the speed up of doubling the existing track from Thanon Jira to Ubon Ratchathani and maybe make a link link from Khon Kaen to Buriram or Surin. A new link from Ubon Ratchathani upNorth might be a good idea as well.

It's strange that the current Pheu Thai led government doesn't put more emphasize on new, double track links in the heartland of their most loyal supporters. Maybe that's because they're loyal anyway?

[retell]

^ bild766

It would seem that the 'bear' necessities would be the speed up of doubling the existing track from Thanon Jira to Ubon Ratchathani and maybe make a link link from Khon Kaen to Buriram or Surin. A new link from Ubon Ratchathani upNorth might be a good idea as well.

It's strange that the current Pheu Thai led government doesn't put more emphasize on new, double track links in the heartland of their most loyal supporters. Maybe that's because they're loyal anyway?

i heard them wanting to go from rathathani to Mukdahan also

[Thereisnoif]

The only " high speed track" ever built in Thailand is the Airport link ( only 160 kph, under 30 kms long ) and less than 3 years after its opening, revenue speed has to be reduced to 80 kph because the track is falling to pieces.

Now you tell me the same crappy chinese contractors are going to build a 800 km long high speed all elevated track to CM , in very difficult geological conditions, with trains running over 250 kph ?

NO &lt;deleted&gt; way .

[maidu]

I took that high speed train from Bkk to Sawanboom a few months ago. The terminal was FREEEEEZING. and I was the only person in the gargantuan freezer terminal. Bangkok's city fathers were planning to build a a walkway in Bangkok for between 930,000 and 1.65 million baht per meter. For those who think in dollars, that's $31,000 and $55,000 per meter - for a bleeding walkway. That's the sort of no-brain planning we've come to expect from 'those on high.' The powers-that-be thinking is: "Spare no expense on Bangkok infrastructure. The little people won't notice, particularly when 30 to 40% of the easy money slips clandestinely in well-connected peoples' pockets."

[rubl]

And while we happily reserve 2.2 trillion Baht for high-speed transport links for the needy, we do not forget some less needy poor people:

Thailand Live Sunday 31st of March #22:
"Cabinet decides to extend free third-class train, non-air conditioned bus services for another six months /MCOT"

[OZEMADE]

Thai price Farung price, we will pay top fare.

Does Thai Airways, another government owned transport network, have dual pricing for domestic flights?

The farang paranoia on this forum is frightening at times.

No but 90% of their National Parks do and 100% of their hotels do.

Edited March 31, 2013 by OZEMADE

[jackspratt]

Thai price Farung price, we will pay top fare.

Does Thai Airways, another government owned transport network, have dual pricing for domestic flights?

The farang paranoia on this forum is frightening at times.

No but 90% of their National Parks do and 100% of their hotels do.

What absolute nonsense - but thank you for assisting to prove my point.

Suggest you start to drink decaf.

[Tomtomtom69]

Let's face it the ONLY reason this High speed train idea is seeing the light of day is that Thaksin wants it.

He rode one in China and decided Thailand should have one....... even though we haven't even got double track yet....the man's an idiot.

As others have said spend the money on modernization of the existing rail service and especially the roads. Create decent u-turns etc.

Yes but to build a high-speed rail system, a dedicated track system, much if not all elevated will have to be built you can't just use the existing tracks! Similarly, you don't just build "decent u-turns" on highways, you build expressways, also known as motorways (in England and Thailand) which have limited access and where u-turns generally don't exist outside of exit ramps where you can turn around if you want. Of course about 10 years ago Thaksin wanted to build numerous expressways linking Bangkok and the rest of the country but apart from the eastern outer ring road and Bangkok-Chonburi expressway it never happened. Hopefully soon it will though.

Also, what most posters here have failed to see is that this high-speed rail system can not be an insular Thai equivalent of the Japanese Shinkansen or Chinese gaokuai system. Those countries have the financial and technological capability to build such a system - the Thais have neither. So what will happen is that the Thai system will be linked to the Chinese one via Laos to Kunming and the Chinese will provide the trains and the technology. Without the Chinese no high speed train system will be built in Thailand.