Court Will Rule On Thai Charter Bid

[webfact]

Court will rule on charter bid
CHANIKARN PHUMHIRAN,
KHANITTHA THEPPHAJORN
THE NATION



Accepts petition from senator; stops short of issuing injunction

BANGKOK: -- Though the Constitutional Court yesterday agreed to rule on the moves to change the charter's Articles 68 and 237, it decided not to order an injunction against the amendment process.

However, the court might eventually rule to overturn changes in the future.

Senator Somchai Sawaengkarn, a member of a group of 40 appointed senators, on Tuesday sought a court ruling and an injunction against the amendment of Articles 68 and 237.

The court yesterday voted 3 to 2 to accept the petition. Attending the court's meeting yesterday were only its president, Wasan Soypisudh, and four justices - Jaran Pukditanakul, Charoon Intachan, Puphot Khaimuk and Udomsak Nitimontree. Four justices were away on a trip abroad.

The court reasoned that there was not sufficient urgency to warrant the issuing of an injunction.

The charter amendment bill seeks to change Article 68 to restrict people's right to seek Constitutional Court rulings by requiring their petitions be submitted through the Attorney-General's Office. The bill also seeks to amend Article 237 to do away with the penalties of political party dissolution and political bans against party executives.

In his petition, Somchai claimed that Parliament President Somsak Kiatsuranont had abused his authority and violated the charter by allowing the debate on the amendment bill to proceed. He also alleged that 311 coalition MPs and senators violated the charter by supporting the bill, which would run against the court's decision that people could invoke Article 68 to seek a ruling from the court directly.

Democrat MP Wiratana Kalayasiri, head of the party's legal team, warned that the MPs and senators who voted for the bill in its first reading might be impeached if the court equates the amendment of Article 68 with an attempt to overthrow the democratic system of government.

The opposition Democrats were compiling information and transcribing the tapes of the debate and interviews of leading Pheu Thai members, including Chaturon Chaisang, to consider whether to file a complaint to the court, he said.

Chaturon had said Parliament could proceed next with passing the amendment bill for Article 291, which seeks to write a new charter and is pending its third reading, right after the Article 68 amendment bill was passed, he said.

Earlier, the Constitutional Court invoked Article 68 to accept a citizen's petition against the Article 291 amendment bill and ruled that the rewriting of the entire charter could not go ahead without a public referendum.

If the Democrats opt to take legal action, the Constitutional Court may consider its petition together with Somchai's petition, Wiratana added.

Prior to the court's announcement yesterday, the Parliament had turned into a platform to grill the Constitutional Court on the third day of the charter amendment debate. Many government MPs and senators warned that the court's decision to halt the charter-amendment process might result in a new round of political chaos.

The court was scrutinised for its ruling last year on the parliamentary motion to change Article 291, which allows charter amendment, but only on an article-by-article basis. Supporters of the amendments want a new charter to be drafted, claiming that previously the court had used Article 68 to issue a ruling, which caused the bill to be stuck in Parliament pending for a third reading.

PHEU THAI DISSOLUTION FEARS

Pheu Thai MP Niyom Wechkama said he was concerned about what the Constitutional Court had to say about charter amendment. "I am worried because Pheu Thai may face dissolution again, and if this happens, I don't know which party I would go to," he said.

Pheu Thai MP Witthaya Buranasiri said critics of charter change had erred in suggesting that the focus should be on resolving the rice-pledging scheme instead of also spending time on charter amendments. He said the government and the legislature had completely different tasks, pointing out that the charter debate fell under the legislative purview, while the rice-pledging scheme came under the government.

"The legislature's mandate is to legislate," he said.

The parliamentarians were speaking at a time when Senate Speaker Nikom Wairatpanij was chairing the meeting and most of the opposition Democrat MPs had walked out.

Meanwhile, Senator Direk Teungfung, one of the sponsors of the charter change bill, said that the Constitutional Court had little ground to accept a challenge to the bill.

"I don't think the high court will review the proposed amendment of Article 68," he said, referring to the provision protecting democratic rule. The legislature had a mandate to revise the charter as necessary, he said.

The bill was limited to changing the channel through which a petition can be filed for the prosecution of persons trying to overthrow a democratic government, he added.

COURT 'SHOULDN'T INTERFERE'

Pheu Thai MP Cherdchai Tantisirin said the Constitutional Court should stay out of parliamentary deliberation on the bill and remember the outcry raised over its previous interference in the legislative process.

Outside Parliament, Pheu Thai Party member Singthong Buachum yesterday filed a petition with the Constitutional Court to overturn the senators' request for a court injunction pending the ruling on whether to suspend the amendment of Articles 68 and 237.

Singthong said the Parliament has the right to amend the charter article by article as recommended by the Constitutional Court which issued a ruling in July 2012 over the amendment of Article 291. He said if the court accepted Senator Somchai's petition and rules to suspend the charter amendment, Parliament will be dealt a blow by a constitutional impasse as happened with the move to amend Article 291.

Meanwhile, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra yesterday called on the Constitutional Court to help break the impasse, saying the country could not move ahead if the law of the land was not amended to promote justice, democratic rule and international confidence in the country's legal system.

"Thailand is preparing to enter the integration of the Asean Economic Community. Many countries have revamped their laws to ensure that they meet democratic principles and the rule of law, which has helped create confidence in their countries. I believe every sector will help find a way out of the country's legal stalemate,'' she said.


-- The Nation 2013-04-04

[Roadman]

Quote "Meanwhile, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra yesterday called on the Constitutional Court to help break the impasse, saying the country could not move ahead if the law of the land was not amended to promote justice, democratic rule and international confidence in the country's legal system."

What an absolute joke this brother's parrot is.

An impasse is wanted to be broken so that more Shinawatra control can be established over all of Thailand's checks and balances so that her fugitive criminal brother has total control. International confidence in the country's legal system is not obvious when a fugitive criminal is running the country from Dubai. I wonder if it is a case of this lot's ease of feeding crap to their brought Isaan Khwai vote and her pretty smile but empty brain presentations to world leaders role that she thinks that the stupidity of her statements like above wash with the western world.

[Thai at Heart]

The court yesterday voted 3 to 2 to accept the petition. Attending the court's meeting yesterday were only its president, Wasan Soypisudh, and four justices - Jaran Pukditanakul, Charoon Intachan, Puphot Khaimuk and Udomsak Nitimontree. Four justices were away on a trip abroad.

What a joke. How can any judgement have any legitimacy?

[smutcakes]

Which way is the wind on TVF blowing at the moment?

A vote in favor of amendment- All on Thaksin payroll

A vote against- At least the judges are beyond being paid off

To hell with a judgement based on law.

[Thai at Heart]

Which way is the wind on TVF blowing at the moment?

A vote in favor of amendment- All on Thaksin payroll

A vote against- At least the judges are beyond being paid off

To hell with a judgement based on law.

Well, I'd prefer it if at least all of them were present......

[smutcakes]

Which way is the wind on TVF blowing at the moment?

A vote in favor of amendment- All on Thaksin payroll

A vote against- At least the judges are beyond being paid off

To hell with a judgement based on law.

Well, I'd prefer it if at least all of them were present......

Fair point, I will add the final one to keep people happy.

Judges all abroad- Scared of red Shirt intimidation. (Or more likely on holiday)

[siampolee]

Slowly but surely the Thaksin clan keeps pushing to override any judicial and constitutional point that might stand blocking their road to a total power syndrome and the continued looting of the states coffers by the Thaksin clan and their brown nosing acolytes.

Even more amusing if it wasn't such a serous matter is that the comments made vis a vis the proposed changes and the fact that they should be allowed to progress unimpeded by the judicial and constitutional process were made by a puppet Prime Minister who spends little or no time in Parliament and therefore is totally out of touch with the reality of the day to day workings and the judicial and constitutional processes that are involved in running the country.

This woman admits there is a ''legal stalemate'' ( wonder who wrote that quote for her?) yet she continues nay lambastes the moves being made to deal with the amendment changes in a legal and constitutional fashion.

Indeed a fine example of what the nation can expect from the Thaksin style demonocracy democracy is it not ?

Ah well ''all is fair in the pursuit of a dictatorship and the establishment of a new ruling dynasty along with free access to the nations coffers.''

Edited April 4, 2013 by siampolee

[animatic]

The court yesterday voted 3 to 2 to accept the petition. Attending the court's meeting yesterday were only its president, Wasan Soypisudh, and four justices - Jaran Pukditanakul, Charoon Intachan, Puphot Khaimuk and Udomsak Nitimontree. Four justices were away on a trip abroad.

What a joke. How can any judgement have any legitimacy?

There were enough Justices present to accept the case, it need not be a full bench.

But not to make a decision till all justices are returned, at which time a decision can be made.

And there was no decision to make an injunction since no time sensitive emergency was notable.

Fair enough.

Edited April 4, 2013 by animatic

[Thai at Heart]

The court yesterday voted 3 to 2 to accept the petition. Attending the court's meeting yesterday were only its president, Wasan Soypisudh, and four justices - Jaran Pukditanakul, Charoon Intachan, Puphot Khaimuk and Udomsak Nitimontree. Four justices were away on a trip abroad.

What a joke. How can any judgement have any legitimacy?

There were enough Justices present to accept the case, it need not be a full bench.

But not to make a decision till all justices are returned, at which time a decision can be made.

And there was no decision to make an injunction since no time sensitive emergency was notable.

Fair enough.

Well, let's hope they all pitch when decisions are made.

Even the decision to accept the case is controversial, and achieved 3 to 2.

I wonder where the other 4 have gone all at the same time?

[animatic]

The court yesterday voted 3 to 2 to accept the petition. Attending the court's meeting yesterday were only its president, Wasan Soypisudh, and four justices - Jaran Pukditanakul, Charoon Intachan, Puphot Khaimuk and Udomsak Nitimontree. Four justices were away on a trip abroad.

What a joke. How can any judgement have any legitimacy?

There were enough Justices present to accept the case, it need not be a full bench.

But not to make a decision till all justices are returned, at which time a decision can be made.

And there was no decision to make an injunction since no time sensitive emergency was notable.

Fair enough.

Well, let's hope they all pitch when decisions are made.

Even the decision to accept the case is controversial, and achieved 3 to 2.

I wonder where the other 4 have gone all at the same time?

Let's hope it's not Dubai...

[bigbamboo]

Slowly but surely the Thaksin clan keeps pushing to override any judicial and constitutional point that might stand blocking their road to a total power syndrome and the continued looting of the states coffers by the Thaksin clan and their brown nosing acolytes.

Even more amusing if it wasn't such a serous matter is that the comments made vis a vis the proposed changes and the fact that they should be allowed to progress unimpeded by the judicial and constitutional process were made by a puppet Prime Minister who spends little or no time in Parliament and therefore is totally out of touch with the reality of the day to day workings and the judicial and constitutional processes that are involved in running the country.

This woman admits there is a ''legal stalemate'' ( wonder who wrote that quote for her?) yet she continues nay lambastes the moves being made to deal with the amendment changes in a legal and constitutional fashion.

Indeed a fine example of what the nation can expect from the Thaksin style demonocracy democracy is it not ?

Ah well ''all is fair in the pursuit of a dictatorship and the establishment of a new ruling dynasty along with free access to the nations coffers.''

Isn't that what Hun Sen says?

[SICHONSTEVE]

Which way is the wind on TVF blowing at the moment?

A vote in favor of amendment- All on Thaksin payroll

A vote against- At least the judges are beyond being paid off

To hell with a judgement based on law.

Well, I'd prefer it if at least all of them were present......

I'd prefer it if we had a prime minister that knew what they were doing, wasn't intent on bankrupting Thailand to keep a few farmers (even though this is totally misplaced) happy and bothered to turn up to parliament on more than the odd occasion instead of spending so much time away in other countries (like the judges just have), just to make people love her!!!.

[khunken]

From what the article says, it looks like Chaturon is pushing for a complete re-write, contrary to the CC's previous ruling. That's a recipe for big trouble for his party - maybe he has some sort of party death wish.

The current constitution is the only people's constitution in Thailand's history. Any one who supports the corrupt anti-democratic politicians fiddling with it for their master's (& their own) benefit is a toady.

For whatever reason, if the CC is unable to set this mob on a proper democratic course, the demonstrations will restart & the country will be turbulent for some time, to put it mildly. Note that the local stock market seems to be pricing in that turbulence.

[animatic]

"

Pheu Thai MP Witthaya Buranasiri said critics of charter change had erred in suggesting that the focus should be on resolving the rice-pledging scheme instead of also spending time on charter amendments. He said the government and the legislature had completely different tasks, pointing out that the charter debate fell under the legislative purview, while the rice-pledging scheme came under the government.

The legislature's mandate is to legislate," he said.

Yes they err in thinking about saving the peoples treasury from ruin.

It really appears the ONLY things they actually try to legislate are ways to help their party and clan masters hold power more closely and completely, and nothing comes to mind about legislation to help the people of Thailands problems.

Edited April 4, 2013 by animatic

[SICHONSTEVE]

"

Pheu Thai MP Witthaya Buranasiri said critics of charter change had erred in suggesting that the focus should be on resolving the rice-pledging scheme instead of also spending time on charter amendments. He said the government and the legislature had completely different tasks, pointing out that the charter debate fell under the legislative purview, while the rice-pledging scheme came under the government.

>The legislature's mandate is to legislate," he said.

Yes they err in thinking about saving the peoples treasury from ruin.

It really appears the ONLY things they actually try to legislate are ways to help their party and clan masters hold power more closely and completely, and nothing comes to mind about legislation to help the people of Thailands problems.

How are they supposed to benefit by helping the people of Thailand? If they can't get something substantial (personally) out of anything, then why bother!!

[muttley]

Slowly but surely the Thaksin clan keeps pushing to override any judicial and constitutional point that might stand blocking their road to a total power syndrome and the continued looting of the states coffers by the Thaksin clan and their brown nosing acolytes.

Even more amusing if it wasn't such a serous matter is that the comments made vis a vis the proposed changes and the fact that they should be allowed to progress unimpeded by the judicial and constitutional process were made by a puppet Prime Minister who spends little or no time in Parliament and therefore is totally out of touch with the reality of the day to day workings and the judicial and constitutional processes that are involved in running the country.

This woman admits there is a ''legal stalemate'' ( wonder who wrote that quote for her?) yet she continues nay lambastes the moves being made to deal with the amendment changes in a legal and constitutional fashion.

Indeed a fine example of what the nation can expect from the Thaksin style demonocracy democracy is it not ?

Ah well ''all is fair in the pursuit of a dictatorship and the establishment of a new ruling dynasty along with free access to the nations coffers.''

So let me get this straight, a military coup is not "an attempt to overthrow the democratic system of government", the tearing up of the existing constitution and writing a new one is not "an attempt to overthrow the democratic system of government" but any moves to amend individual constitution articles, as agreed by the Constitutional Court in a recent ruling, is regarded by the democrat party as an "attempt to overthrow the democratic system of government" and apparently worthy of invoking Article 68. They're 'aving a laff.

The "Democrat" Party, I'm sorry, when did they earn the right to use democracy as part of their title?

ps - You still haven't answered me on why, according to you,

“This debate and the proposed amendments are nothing more than a cloak of deceit to allow a full charter rewrite so as to whitewash Thaksin and his cronies and consolidate the dictatorial position of any future leader and its clan”

I'd love to see a reply explaining how this is going to happen. I've explained my reasons why it can't, now it's your turn.

Edited April 4, 2013 by muttley

[rubl]

Well, court will rule, court did rule and all is well in this Kingdom. Apart from pesky foreigners and other dogs doubting things as usual of course

[ggold]

Well, court will rule, court did rule and all is well in this Kingdom. Apart from pesky foreigners and other dogs doubting things as usual of course

Give the dog a bone!

Sent from my GT-P6200 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[SICHONSTEVE]

Slowly but surely the Thaksin clan keeps pushing to override any judicial and constitutional point that might stand blocking their road to a total power syndrome and the continued looting of the states coffers by the Thaksin clan and their brown nosing acolytes.

Even more amusing if it wasn't such a serous matter is that the comments made vis a vis the proposed changes and the fact that they should be allowed to progress unimpeded by the judicial and constitutional process were made by a puppet Prime Minister who spends little or no time in Parliament and therefore is totally out of touch with the reality of the day to day workings and the judicial and constitutional processes that are involved in running the country.

This woman admits there is a ''legal stalemate'' ( wonder who wrote that quote for her?) yet she continues nay lambastes the moves being made to deal with the amendment changes in a legal and constitutional fashion.

Indeed a fine example of what the nation can expect from the Thaksin style demonocracy democracy is it not ?

Ah well ''all is fair in the pursuit of a dictatorship and the establishment of a new ruling dynasty along with free access to the nations coffers.''

So let me get this straight, a military coup is not "an attempt to overthrow the democratic system of government", the tearing up of the existing constitution and writing a new one is not "an attempt to overthrow the democratic system of government" but any moves to amend individual constitution articles, as agreed by the Constitutional Court in a recent ruling, is regarded by the democrat party as an "attempt to overthrow the democratic system of government" and apparently worthy of invoking Article 68. They're 'aving a laff.

The "Democrat" Party, I'm sorry, when did they earn the right to use democracy as part of their title?

ps - You still haven't answered me on why, according to you,

“This debate and the proposed amendments are nothing more than a cloak of deceit to allow a full charter rewrite so as to whitewash Thaksin and his cronies and consolidate the dictatorial position of any future leader and its clan”

I'd love to see a reply explaining how this is going to happen. I've explained my reasons why it can't, now it's your turn.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for democracy, but, there is a caveat here. If the government is elected on lies and false promises (or it is veering towards bankruptcy because it has to implement those populist policies and cannot, or will not change) then I think that something should be done about it.

The Thai people up in the North and East of the country (and certain farangs) are easily hood-winked and are gullible beyond belief as I see it. Do you think that it is a good thing for Thailand that someone with ZERO political experience is installed as prime minister with the sole purpose (seemingly) of bringing a certain individual fugitive back to Thailand is good for the country?? Also, look at what is happening now. She (Yingluck) hasn't managed to do it so far so he is going to have another go with his other sister - is that good for Thailand??

Another thing, do you think that having an unelected fraudster running Thailand (from outside Thailand) is actually democracy??

You should do a bit of thinking on this and then see if your defending of the Shinawatra's is justified. They are simply a bunch of no-gooders intent on draining as much as they can from the people in the name of 'blatantly false' democracy!!!

Time something is done to stop these scamsters - if that means another coup then 'bring it on'!!

[muttley]

Slowly but surely the Thaksin clan keeps pushing to override any judicial and constitutional point that might stand blocking their road to a total power syndrome and the continued looting of the states coffers by the Thaksin clan and their brown nosing acolytes.

Even more amusing if it wasn't such a serous matter is that the comments made vis a vis the proposed changes and the fact that they should be allowed to progress unimpeded by the judicial and constitutional process were made by a puppet Prime Minister who spends little or no time in Parliament and therefore is totally out of touch with the reality of the day to day workings and the judicial and constitutional processes that are involved in running the country.

This woman admits there is a ''legal stalemate'' ( wonder who wrote that quote for her?) yet she continues nay lambastes the moves being made to deal with the amendment changes in a legal and constitutional fashion.

Indeed a fine example of what the nation can expect from the Thaksin style demonocracy democracy is it not ?

Ah well ''all is fair in the pursuit of a dictatorship and the establishment of a new ruling dynasty along with free access to the nations coffers.''

So let me get this straight, a military coup is not "an attempt to overthrow the democratic system of government", the tearing up of the existing constitution and writing a new one is not "an attempt to overthrow the democratic system of government" but any moves to amend individual constitution articles, as agreed by the Constitutional Court in a recent ruling, is regarded by the democrat party as an "attempt to overthrow the democratic system of government" and apparently worthy of invoking Article 68. They're 'aving a laff.

The "Democrat" Party, I'm sorry, when did they earn the right to use democracy as part of their title?

ps - You still haven't answered me on why, according to you,

“This debate and the proposed amendments are nothing more than a cloak of deceit to allow a full charter rewrite so as to whitewash Thaksin and his cronies and consolidate the dictatorial position of any future leader and its clan”

I'd love to see a reply explaining how this is going to happen. I've explained my reasons why it can't, now it's your turn.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for democracy, but, there is a caveat here. If the government is elected on lies and false promises (or it is veering towards bankruptcy because it has to implement those populist policies and cannot, or will not change) then I think that something should be done about it.

The Thai people up in the North and East of the country (and certain farangs) are easily hood-winked and are gullible beyond belief as I see it. Do you think that it is a good thing for Thailand that someone with ZERO political experience is installed as prime minister with the sole purpose (seemingly) of bringing a certain individual fugitive back to Thailand is good for the country?? Also, look at what is happening now. She (Yingluck) hasn't managed to do it so far so he is going to have another go with his other sister - is that good for Thailand??

Another thing, do you think that having an unelected fraudster running Thailand (from outside Thailand) is actually democracy??

You should do a bit of thinking on this and then see if your defending of the Shinawatra's is justified. They are simply a bunch of no-gooders intent on draining as much as they can from the people in the name of 'blatantly false' democracy!!!

Time something is done to stop these scamsters - if that means another coup then 'bring it on'!!

Have you ever thought that you might be wrong and that you have been the hoodwinked one and are gullible beyond belief?

For example what actual facts lead you to believe that the country is veering to bankruptcy, that the government was elected on lies and false promises, that Yingluck is prime minister with the sole purpose (seemingly) of bringing a certain individual fugitive back to Thailand , that there is an unelected fraudster running Thailand (from outside Thailand), that the Shinawatras are a bunch of no-gooders intent on draining as much as they can from the people in the name of 'blatantly false' democracy

What actual facts? Plenty of talk talk from abhisit and others, hundreds of "hater" posts on here, plenty of BS in the newspapers, but true actual facts?

"I'm all for democracy" Yeah yeah, "if that means another coup then 'bring it on!!"

How could I take seriously a person who starts his diatribe with the former and finishes it with the latter?

[OzMick]

Slowly but surely the Thaksin clan keeps pushing to override any judicial and constitutional point that might stand blocking their road to a total power syndrome and the continued looting of the states coffers by the Thaksin clan and their brown nosing acolytes.

Even more amusing if it wasn't such a serous matter is that the comments made vis a vis the proposed changes and the fact that they should be allowed to progress unimpeded by the judicial and constitutional process were made by a puppet Prime Minister who spends little or no time in Parliament and therefore is totally out of touch with the reality of the day to day workings and the judicial and constitutional processes that are involved in running the country.

This woman admits there is a ''legal stalemate'' ( wonder who wrote that quote for her?) yet she continues nay lambastes the moves being made to deal with the amendment changes in a legal and constitutional fashion.

Indeed a fine example of what the nation can expect from the Thaksin style demonocracy democracy is it not ?

Ah well ''all is fair in the pursuit of a dictatorship and the establishment of a new ruling dynasty along with free access to the nations coffers.''

So let me get this straight, a military coup is not "an attempt to overthrow the democratic system of government", the tearing up of the existing constitution and writing a new one is not "an attempt to overthrow the democratic system of government" but any moves to amend individual constitution articles, as agreed by the Constitutional Court in a recent ruling, is regarded by the democrat party as an "attempt to overthrow the democratic system of government" and apparently worthy of invoking Article 68. They're 'aving a laff.

The "Democrat" Party, I'm sorry, when did they earn the right to use democracy as part of their title?

ps - You still haven't answered me on why, according to you,

“This debate and the proposed amendments are nothing more than a cloak of deceit to allow a full charter rewrite so as to whitewash Thaksin and his cronies and consolidate the dictatorial position of any future leader and its clan”

I'd love to see a reply explaining how this is going to happen. I've explained my reasons why it can't, now it's your turn.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for democracy, but, there is a caveat here. If the government is elected on lies and false promises (or it is veering towards bankruptcy because it has to implement those populist policies and cannot, or will not change) then I think that something should be done about it.

The Thai people up in the North and East of the country (and certain farangs) are easily hood-winked and are gullible beyond belief as I see it. Do you think that it is a good thing for Thailand that someone with ZERO political experience is installed as prime minister with the sole purpose (seemingly) of bringing a certain individual fugitive back to Thailand is good for the country?? Also, look at what is happening now. She (Yingluck) hasn't managed to do it so far so he is going to have another go with his other sister - is that good for Thailand??

Another thing, do you think that having an unelected fraudster running Thailand (from outside Thailand) is actually democracy??

You should do a bit of thinking on this and then see if your defending of the Shinawatra's is justified. They are simply a bunch of no-gooders intent on draining as much as they can from the people in the name of 'blatantly false' democracy!!!

Time something is done to stop these scamsters - if that means another coup then 'bring it on'!!

Have you ever thought that you might be wrong and that you have been the hoodwinked one and are gullible beyond belief?

For example what actual facts lead you to believe that the country is veering to bankruptcy, that the government was elected on lies and false promises, that Yingluck is prime minister with the sole purpose (seemingly) of bringing a certain individual fugitive back to Thailand , that there is an unelected fraudster running Thailand (from outside Thailand), that the Shinawatras are a bunch of no-gooders intent on draining as much as they can from the people in the name of 'blatantly false' democracy

What actual facts? Plenty of talk talk from abhisit and others, hundreds of "hater" posts on here, plenty of BS in the newspapers, but true actual facts?

"I'm all for democracy" Yeah yeah, "if that means another coup then 'bring it on!!"

How could I take seriously a person who starts his diatribe with the former and finishes it with the latter?

You can't see "actual facts" through red goggles.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Slowly but surely the Thaksin clan keeps pushing to override any judicial and constitutional point that might stand blocking their road to a total power syndrome and the continued looting of the states coffers by the Thaksin clan and their brown nosing acolytes.

Even more amusing if it wasn't such a serous matter is that the comments made vis a vis the proposed changes and the fact that they should be allowed to progress unimpeded by the judicial and constitutional process were made by a puppet Prime Minister who spends little or no time in Parliament and therefore is totally out of touch with the reality of the day to day workings and the judicial and constitutional processes that are involved in running the country.

This woman admits there is a ''legal stalemate'' ( wonder who wrote that quote for her?) yet she continues nay lambastes the moves being made to deal with the amendment changes in a legal and constitutional fashion.

Indeed a fine example of what the nation can expect from the Thaksin style demonocracy democracy is it not ?

Ah well ''all is fair in the pursuit of a dictatorship and the establishment of a new ruling dynasty along with free access to the nations coffers.''

So let me get this straight, a military coup is not "an attempt to overthrow the democratic system of government", the tearing up of the existing constitution and writing a new one is not "an attempt to overthrow the democratic system of government" but any moves to amend individual constitution articles, as agreed by the Constitutional Court in a recent ruling, is regarded by the democrat party as an "attempt to overthrow the democratic system of government" and apparently worthy of invoking Article 68. They're 'aving a laff.

The "Democrat" Party, I'm sorry, when did they earn the right to use democracy as part of their title?

ps - You still haven't answered me on why, according to you,

“This debate and the proposed amendments are nothing more than a cloak of deceit to allow a full charter rewrite so as to whitewash Thaksin and his cronies and consolidate the dictatorial position of any future leader and its clan”

I'd love to see a reply explaining how this is going to happen. I've explained my reasons why it can't, now it's your turn.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for democracy, but, there is a caveat here. If the government is elected on lies and false promises (or it is veering towards bankruptcy because it has to implement those populist policies and cannot, or will not change) then I think that something should be done about it.

The Thai people up in the North and East of the country (and certain farangs) are easily hood-winked and are gullible beyond belief as I see it. Do you think that it is a good thing for Thailand that someone with ZERO political experience is installed as prime minister with the sole purpose (seemingly) of bringing a certain individual fugitive back to Thailand is good for the country?? Also, look at what is happening now. She (Yingluck) hasn't managed to do it so far so he is going to have another go with his other sister - is that good for Thailand??

Another thing, do you think that having an unelected fraudster running Thailand (from outside Thailand) is actually democracy??

You should do a bit of thinking on this and then see if your defending of the Shinawatra's is justified. They are simply a bunch of no-gooders intent on draining as much as they can from the people in the name of 'blatantly false' democracy!!!

Time something is done to stop these scamsters - if that means another coup then 'bring it on'!!

Have you ever thought that you might be wrong and that you have been the hoodwinked one and are gullible beyond belief?

For example what actual facts lead you to believe that the country is veering to bankruptcy, that the government was elected on lies and false promises, that Yingluck is prime minister with the sole purpose (seemingly) of bringing a certain individual fugitive back to Thailand , that there is an unelected fraudster running Thailand (from outside Thailand), that the Shinawatras are a bunch of no-gooders intent on draining as much as they can from the people in the name of 'blatantly false' democracy

What actual facts? Plenty of talk talk from abhisit and others, hundreds of "hater" posts on here, plenty of BS in the newspapers, but true actual facts?

"I'm all for democracy" Yeah yeah, "if that means another coup then 'bring it on!!"

How could I take seriously a person who starts his diatribe with the former and finishes it with the latter?

No!!! I am not wrong - you are!!!

The government is heading towards bankruptcy because of its failed populist policies (rice pledging sceme in particular).

It was elected because of its unrealistic and costly populist policies - Thaksin's ideas have NEVER worked (even those falsely perceived by the people as having benefitted them) and never will as they are always flawed. The reason behind these 'so-called' populist policies was to get Pheu Thai elected so that he could get a passage back home whereby he wouldn't have to serve his time for fraud and conflicts of interest, nothing else!!

Would you put someone who has never seen a nuclear power plant before in charge of running it??

On account of your gullibility, maybe you believe the lies that Yingluck (has to spout) that it is her government and Thaksin has no involvement or influence over it!! On this, why, just before major cabinet changes do those newly people ministers seem to go on a sojourn (en masse) to see Thaksin?? Do you hold Skype calls with all your mates (on the big screen of course) to discuss what you plan to do in the coming months??

I doubt that you can name one prominent Shinawatra that has not been involved in fraudulent activity (even the future PM? is ensconsed in dubious practises) - after all, Thaksin is a fugitive on the run from his mates!!!

Do you not think that he has made his billions by lieing to and cheating the Thai people?

I surprised that you didn't try to hitch a ride on the curtain tail of Hale Bopp!!!.

[muttley]

No!!! I am not wrong - you are!!!

The government is heading towards bankruptcy because of its failed populist policies (rice pledging sceme in particular).

It was elected because of its unrealistic and costly populist policies - Thaksin's ideas have NEVER worked (even those falsely perceived by the people as having benefitted them) and never will as they are always flawed. The reason behind these 'so-called' populist policies was to get Pheu Thai elected so that he could get a passage back home whereby he wouldn't have to serve his time for fraud and conflicts of interest, nothing else!!

Would you put someone who has never seen a nuclear power plant before in charge of running it??

On account of your gullibility, maybe you believe the lies that Yingluck (has to spout) that it is her government and Thaksin has no involvement or influence over it!! On this, why, just before major cabinet changes do those newly people ministers seem to go on a sojourn (en masse) to see Thaksin?? Do you hold Skype calls with all your mates (on the big screen of course) to discuss what you plan to do in the coming months??

I doubt that you can name one prominent Shinawatra that has not been involved in fraudulent activity (even the future PM? is ensconsed in dubious practises) - after all, Thaksin is a fugitive on the run from his mates!!!

Do you not think that he has made his billions by lieing to and cheating the Thai people?

I surprised that you didn't try to hitch a ride on the curtain tail of Hale Bopp!!!.

Yeah OK, you're right. you use more exclamation marks so you've got to be right, stands to reason...........

[muttley]

You can't see "actual facts" through red goggles.

Well provide some and then we'll try them out. "Red Goggles" don't work on hypotheticals - everybody knows that.

[siampolee]

The reason I haven't replied to your comments muttley is due to fact that I was taught, no doubt like many others too it was not polite nor worthwhile to argue with indoctrinated political pawns.

As an aside what was your previous nick prior to being banned a short while back ?

[SICHONSTEVE]

No!!! I am not wrong - you are!!!

The government is heading towards bankruptcy because of its failed populist policies (rice pledging sceme in particular).

It was elected because of its unrealistic and costly populist policies - Thaksin's ideas have NEVER worked (even those falsely perceived by the people as having benefitted them) and never will as they are always flawed. The reason behind these 'so-called' populist policies was to get Pheu Thai elected so that he could get a passage back home whereby he wouldn't have to serve his time for fraud and conflicts of interest, nothing else!!

Would you put someone who has never seen a nuclear power plant before in charge of running it??

On account of your gullibility, maybe you believe the lies that Yingluck (has to spout) that it is her government and Thaksin has no involvement or influence over it!! On this, why, just before major cabinet changes do those newly people ministers seem to go on a sojourn (en masse) to see Thaksin?? Do you hold Skype calls with all your mates (on the big screen of course) to discuss what you plan to do in the coming months??

I doubt that you can name one prominent Shinawatra that has not been involved in fraudulent activity (even the future PM? is ensconsed in dubious practises) - after all, Thaksin is a fugitive on the run from his mates!!!

Do you not think that he has made his billions by lieing to and cheating the Thai people?

I surprised that you didn't try to hitch a ride on the curtain tail of Hale Bopp!!!.

Yeah OK, you're right. you use more exclamation marks so you've got to be right, stands to reason...........

I take the fact that your response relates solely to my 'writing style' as a cloaked acceptance of my points!!!

On account of this, have you ditched your red goggles yet or are you still walking around in a red mist??