6 Foreigners Arrested For Using Forged A T M Cards In Bangkok A T Ms

[metisdead]

A nonsense racist post has been removed.

[Locationthailand]

Don't ATM's run cameras and the time of the transaction matches footage stored thus the perps can be identified?

[MaxYakov]

In the USA, I used to work in the Rick Fraud department of a large card processor as an investigator. So for what it is worth, here is my opinion:

The steps involved in losing your card information and then eventual theft are:

(1) The thief needs to gain physical possession of the card for a moment, and swipe it in a hand held device that captures all the information on the magnetic strip.

(2) The thief needs the pin number, a relatively easy task. Ex: Waiter takes card, swipes in capture device, informs client the credit card machine is not working, points them to an ATM, observes (often with camera from above, or "innocent bystander" close by), the keying in of Pin.

(3) Information transferred to new magnetic strip, complete with the correct Pin in hand.

(4) Steal money.

Yes, we all need to hand over our cards, and they vanish from sight, until they waiter returns it. Guests in hotels will often use the card at the lobby ATM, and then sometime later (Checkout, dinner, etc--- ) the magnetic strip is copied. That lobby ATM often has a "Security Camera" right above it. Hmmmmm...

Please do not think it is just you "date" or street market who does this, since 5 Star hotels attract the most wealthy, those card are highly sought after. Thieves do not care if they work at a strip club, or the Ritz...they want the money...Period.

For people who simply use their index finger, and methodically punch the numbers, it is child's play to steal a Pin. You may feel silly, but every effort should be made to mask, cover and confuse during the Pin process. Call me crazy, but i go to great lengths to ensure it is nearly impossible to figure my Pin the way I move my hands and fingers in the process. Crazy... perhaps...but never had any issues with cards. If there is a potential of overhead observation (which is pretty much everywhere...), I hold my free hand over the hand punching the keys.

The take away is this...when entering your Pin, regardless of location, presume someone is trying to get that Pin code ..every single time...and you will go far to protect your money.

One thing I've done, since I wire-transfer into a Thai bank account, is open two accounts - a transfer account and a security account. The transfer account number is the only one ever listed in the transfer documents so is more exposed than the security account which is never the receiver of a wire transfer. Immediately after the transfer account receives a transfer, all funds are transferred to the security account by a bank teller window transaction. To minimize activity on the security account, funds are transferred in 10K baht increments from the security account to the transfer account from which routine and more frequent day-do-day withdrawals are made.

I confess to being sloppy with protecting my pin for my accounts, although they are memorized, but the security account ATM card is kept in a safe and accessed only when needed to transfer funds from the security account to the transfer account. I have never let someone else use any of my ATM cards for any purpose.

Exposure would be minimized, perhaps, if I used the security account ATM card only in emergencies and used bank teller transactions for the routine 10K baht transactions to the transfer account, but that would be a PIA and limited to bank hours.

[Guest]

Nice to know these people have been caught. Far too much ATM fraud going on. I stopped using the ATM machines and use the FX booth in BigC these days. That feels much safer.

Whhat is FX booth ?

A currency exchange booth.

Basically....

You take your credit / ATM card with you and a passport to get local currency. They put your card in a reader, you put in the pin number.

They photocopy your passport and card.

You fill in and sign a receipt and if all is correct, then get your money.

No fuss and no hassle.

I always feel it is much safer than using an ATM. You can see what the FX (exchange rate) is when you are at the booth.

Yes, banks do the same but and FX booth does not make a charge.

Up to you...if you believe that the exact same bank transaction is somehow made more safe by sharing every conceivable piece of information required to steal your identity, far be it from me to interfere Enjoy that belief For the rest of us, "less is more." I do apologize for sharing with you what I learned after years of Risk Fraud Investigation for a major credit card company. It was my folly to waste precious time trying to help, inform and suggest alternatives.

i do hope that no bad fate comes to you, but the fact is...you are being quite careless with your identity information,, when a widely accepted and nearly flawless alternative is close at hand, on every corner of Thailand. (ATM)

In your case, ATM might best stand for "Another Tourist Mishap." Enjoy.

[Bluespunk]

The Sri Lankans, who entered Thailand illegally, were also found to have been former members of the Tamil Tigers rebels in Sri Lanka.

And after they served their time in Thailand they will be up for even more rough treatment when they go home

If they are treated as other former rebels they will not be heard of again once the govt of sri lanka has them.

[howzat]

Dont understand how they can find your PIN number for ATM card. Please explain somebody

[Dali1]

What about using ATM machines that are within a bank rather than on the street. Would they be any safer because there is less chance for thieves to inserta camera in the machine that can photograph your pin number?

[pattayadingo]

Nice to know these people have been caught. Far too much ATM fraud going on. I stopped using the ATM machines and use the FX booth in BigC these days. That feels much safer.

Whhat is FX booth ?

A currency exchange booth.

Basically....

You take your credit / ATM card with you and a passport to get local currency. They put your card in a reader, you put in the pin number.

They photocopy your passport and card.

You fill in and sign a receipt and if all is correct, then get your money.

No fuss and no hassle.

I always feel it is much safer than using an ATM. You can see what the FX (exchange rate) is when you are at the booth.

Yes, banks do the same but and FX booth does not make a charge.

Up to you...if you believe that the exact same bank transaction is somehow made more safe by sharing every conceivable piece of information required to steal your identity, far be it from me to interfere Enjoy that belief For the rest of us, "less is more." I do apologize for sharing with you what I learned after years of Risk Fraud Investigation for a major credit card company. It was my folly to waste precious time trying to help, inform and suggest alternatives.

i do hope that no bad fate comes to you, but the fact is...you are being quite careless with your identity information,, when a widely accepted and nearly flawless alternative is close at hand, on every corner of Thailand. (ATM)

In your case, ATM might best stand for "Another Tourist Mishap." Enjoy.

I am not being careless with my I.D.

SCB is a reliable bank. Never had a problem in all the time I have used them.

ATM's are not flawless. Far from it. And that is why the topic in the first place and the arrest of more people committing ATM fraud, or had you not noticed?

You stick to your ways and I'll stick to mine.

[Dap]

4 of the arrested were Malaysians aged between 19 and 32 years, and the 2 arrested Sri Lankans were 43 and 34 years of age. The Sri Lankans, who entered Thailand illegally, were also found to have been former members of the Tamil Tigers rebels in Sri Lanka.

Did they swim all the way to Thailand? There's no such a thing like a former member. Still member would be a better description.

Go to Nana and watch what cops are doing there. Waiting for foreigners who drop a cigarette, then it's time to pay, while many shops sell child porn at many shops.

>>Oh sure, the Thai Police can catch some international ATM card fraudsters who steal hundreds of thousands of baht, but what about the serious crime like ... oh wait, that is fairly serious and it did involve decent investigative work.

The usually unrelenting Thai police bashers must have had a late night yesterday.

"Go to Nana and watch what cops are doing there. Waiting for foreigners who drop a cigarette, then it's time to pay, while many shops sell child porn at many shops. "

There we go. I was a little premature, but I knew we could get some Thai bashing going if we were patient.

I apoligize for being off-topic but ...I agree that there is "Thai-Bashing" uncalled for but "Go to Nana and watch what cops are doing there. Waiting for foreigners who drop a cigarette, then it's time to pay, while many shops sell child porn at many shops", would be absolutely appropriate "bashing" in ANY country.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Dap

[Sayonarax]

I'm like the transport minister, i hide all my money in the closet.

[55Jay]

I think the main part of the OP was that Mr. Asok hacked foreign banks to get the data, then programmed fake/bogus cards.

But all the tips are.... really good reading.

[vijer]

Oh sure, the Thai Police can catch some international ATM card fraudsters who steal hundreds of thousands of baht, but what about the serious crime like ... oh wait, that is fairly serious and it did involve decent investigative work.

The usually unrelenting Thai police bashers must have had a late night yesterday.

I'll help you out. Mistakes happen all the time, the BiB screwed up and did something good this time.

Probably wasn't difficult to catch. Hmmm how many people go to the ATM and withdraw 60,000 baht? Especially in a busy shopping area! I would worry about getting robbed. So with a little profiling and watching the ATMs in the area these inept criminals kept frequenting I guess it wasn't all that difficult to catch them.

[technologybytes]

It's amazing to read the replies to this subject and the bickering going on between people who clearly DID NOT read the full article.

The fraud began with "data" that was compromised from UK, Canada and German banks.. this is not really anything to do with Thailand banks, they are just using them here because that banks in Thailand use old magnetic stripe technology.

As it was "data" that was compromised, its likely that none of the victims were careless with their cards or their pin numbers.

PIN numbers are not very secure at all, in fact with customer selected PIN numbers it's been proven that a clever fraudster has a 1 in 14 chance of being able to crack your PIN number. It's much harder with assigned PIN numbers like in the old days, but with customer selected PINs and a little knowledge of the science of human stereotype response it's really not that hard. Remember the fraudster has only 3 attempts at the PIN if its a stolen card, but can have 6, 9 or more attempts with a cloned card if he is patient because whenever the genuine customer uses his/her genuine card it resets the count!

ATM may as well stand for Automated Theft Machine when countries like Thailand are using such old technology and allow overseas cards to be used. The fraudsters find it much easier to skim the cards in the west, but they cannot use the skimmed data in the west these days so they email the data to accomplices in places like Thailand, who can buy everything that they need over the counter in Pantip Plaza to complete the job.

[Thongkorn]

There was a big case like this in England, Indian call centers where passing on Customers card information to gangs so they could commit fraud By useing the card details.

[justathought]

The Sri Lankans, who entered Thailand illegally,

It would be nice to know how they entered illegally Mr. NNT.

they entered in as FBI officers

[maidu]

They got me. I found 8 fraudulent withdrawals from my SCB account. SCB helped minimally. The ATM of choice for the thieves was Krungthai bank. Yesterday I filed a police report (yes, had to tell the same long story to five different cops, one after another). Today I talk with my lawyer about it.

In the article I read 3 days ago, they estimated the thieves got ahold of ten million baht. However, the cops only found Bt.18,000. Not surprising. Some people have nimble fingers and dark pockets.

You would think the banks, particularly SCB and Krungthai, would scrutinize their ledgers and see who might have been ripped off, AND NOTIFY CLIENTS WHO MIGHT HAVE BEEN RIPPED OFF, but the banks will likely do as little as possible, and hope this all blows over. Thai style.

[Payboy]

The Sri Lankans, who entered Thailand illegally, were also found to have been former members of the Tamil Tigers rebels in Sri Lanka.

A bloke just can't retire these days without someone digging up his past.

[stoli]

For all you TV members when you use a ATM check where you insert your card, that is where the skimmer is and a small hole which has the camera to see your pin number. Always cover you hand when pressing your pin, they need both pin and magnetic strip info to hack your account. If you think there is a problem dont use that ATM, its also good to change your pin number after you return to your home counrty. If you have a Thai ATM card you can change your pin at your branch ATM.

You can acutally change your PIN at the ATM machine. Had to do it yesterday. Very easy.

[technologybytes]

They got me. I found 8 fraudulent withdrawals from my SCB account. SCB helped minimally. The ATM of choice for the thieves was Krungthai bank. Yesterday I filed a police report (yes, had to tell the same long story to five different cops, one after another). Today I talk with my lawyer about it.

In the article I read 3 days ago, they estimated the thieves got ahold of ten million baht. However, the cops only found Bt.18,000. Not surprising. Some people have nimble fingers and dark pockets.

You would think the banks, particularly SCB and Krungthai, would scrutinize their ledgers and see who might have been ripped off, AND NOTIFY CLIENTS WHO MIGHT HAVE BEEN RIPPED OFF, but the banks will likely do as little as possible, and hope this all blows over. Thai style.

You should start by asking to see the photos of the perpetrator, especially if the withdrawals were in the same area as you live. Usually this is very helpful in cases like this...the answer may be closer to home and you may recognize the person in the photos.

[Pimay1]

They got me. I found 8 fraudulent withdrawals from my SCB account. SCB helped minimally. The ATM of choice for the thieves was Krungthai bank. Yesterday I filed a police report (yes, had to tell the same long story to five different cops, one after another). Today I talk with my lawyer about it.

In the article I read 3 days ago, they estimated the thieves got ahold of ten million baht. However, the cops only found Bt.18,000. Not surprising. Some people have nimble fingers and dark pockets.

You would think the banks, particularly SCB and Krungthai, would scrutinize their ledgers and see who might have been ripped off, AND NOTIFY CLIENTS WHO MIGHT HAVE BEEN RIPPED OFF, but the banks will likely do as little as possible, and hope this all blows over. Thai style.

You should start by asking to see the photos of the perpetrator, especially if the withdrawals were in the same area as you live. Usually this is very helpful in cases like this...the answer may be closer to home and you may recognize the person in the photos.

Been there done that. Here's the process I had to go through.

1. Go to the bank, have your bank book updated. This will show atm transaction date and the withdrawal amount.

2. Go to the local police station file a report.They will photocopy your bank book showing withdrawal details.

3. Take a copy of the police report to the bank. Along with a letter from the police requesting the bank to send them photos of the person making the withdrawal.

4. The banks retain the photos for about one week. If they still have them they will send to the police.

[newermonkey]

Nice to know these people have been caught. Far too much ATM fraud going on. I stopped using the ATM machines and use the FX booth in BigC these days. That feels much safer.

Can you tell me what an "FX Booth" is ?

[varun]

I could be wrong here, but I think location plays a part with regards to the likelyhood of an ATM theft.<br /><br />Areas such as lower Sukhumvit, Patpong, Pratunam etc. where scamsters, degenerates and low-lifes from every ethnicity congregate have a higher probability of such occurences.<br /><br />But I guess, you can never be too sure, regardless of location.

[varun]

Nice to know these people have been caught. Far too much ATM fraud going on. I stopped using the ATM machines and use the FX booth in BigC these days. That feels much safer.

Can you tell me what an "FX Booth" is ?

FX = Foreign Exchange

[AhFarangJa]

In the USA, I used to work in the Rick Fraud department of a large card processor as an investigator. So for what it is worth, here is my opinion:

The steps involved in losing your card information and then eventual theft are:

(1) The thief needs to gain physical possession of the card for a moment, and swipe it in a hand held device that captures all the information on the magnetic strip.

(2) The thief needs the pin number, a relatively easy task. Ex: Waiter takes card, swipes in capture device, informs client the credit card machine is not working, points them to an ATM, observes (often with camera from above, or "innocent bystander" close by), the keying in of Pin.

(3) Information transferred to new magnetic strip, complete with the correct Pin in hand.

(4) Steal money.

Yes, we all need to hand over our cards, and they vanish from sight, until they waiter returns it. Guests in hotels will often use the card at the lobby ATM, and then sometime later (Checkout, dinner, etc--- ) the magnetic strip is copied. That lobby ATM often has a "Security Camera" right above it. Hmmmmm...

Please do not think it is just you "date" or street market who does this, since 5 Star hotels attract the most wealthy, those card are highly sought after. Thieves do not care if they work at a strip club, or the Ritz...they want the money...Period.

For people who simply use their index finger, and methodically punch the numbers, it is child's play to steal a Pin. You may feel silly, but every effort should be made to mask, cover and confuse during the Pin process. Call me crazy, but i go to great lengths to ensure it is nearly impossible to figure my Pin the way I move my hands and fingers in the process. Crazy... perhaps...but never had any issues with cards. If there is a potential of overhead observation (which is pretty much everywhere...), I hold my free hand over the hand punching the keys.

The take away is this...when entering your Pin, regardless of location, presume someone is trying to get that Pin code ..every single time...and you will go far to protect your money.

I always do as you have said, especially cover my hand and use many fingers to enter the pin, however my card was still cloned last december at the airport, same bank as in the article, 250000baht taken from atm in phillipines over three days. I will get money back from my Jersey bank, but the Thai bank was not really interested, what angers me is these leeches that feed off honest people, I hope they rot for a long time then deport them back to srilanka to the pond they crawled out of.

there, I feel better now!!

[beautifulthailand99]

"Go to Nana and watch what cops are doing there. Waiting for foreigners who drop a cigarette, then it's time to pay, while many shops sell child porn at many shops. "

Oh sure, the Thai Police can catch some international ATM card fraudsters who steal hundreds of thousands of baht, but what about the serious crime like ... oh wait, that is fairly serious and it did involve decent investigative work.

The usually unrelenting Thai police bashers must have had a late night yesterday.

There we go. I was a little premature, but I knew we could get some Thai bashing going if we were patient.

Wahey a Thai (police) basher premature ejaculater forum poster - I bet you had that ready made for any suitable opportunity - you never have to wait long This is Thai Visa Forum after all. On this occasion though Thai plod seems to have done a good job - I bet the crims kept hitting the same ATM's and weren't suitably disguised hence an easy collar.

Edited April 5, 2013 by beautifulthailand99

[maidu]

At least some of the people who got ripped off may not even know they've had money stolen. Thai cops claim there was 10 million baht stolen - how do they know? And if so, why was only Bt.18,000 recovered from the thieves? I could venture an answer that. Suffice to say, it's no mystery why cops on meager salaries are living in mansions and driving fancy new vehicles.

In a functioning society, there might be inquiries about recovered money which goes missing. In Thailand, it's 'mai pen rai'.

[55Jay]

Nice to know these people have been caught. Far too much ATM fraud going on. I stopped using the ATM machines and use the FX booth in BigC these days. That feels much safer.

Can you tell me what an "FX Booth" is ?

Well, the "FX" in the Philippines, Olongapo, about 20 years ago, was some lithe Filipina inside a money change booth tapping her yellow plastic hair brush on the glass to get your attention. Eye contact was an art, hard to avoid in Po City.

[dighambara]

Why cannot banks discover how they are getting the ATM information and then update their procedures to prevent this. I am not as worried about this in the U.S. where there are consumer protections, but here in Thailand, the account holder is not as protected.

The Sri Lankans, who entered Thailand illegally,

It would be nice to know how they entered illegally Mr. NNT.

Such scams in the US are detected early, because people are educated well enough to know of such things - remember T.I.T. ad the government wants Mushrooms, not 'Citizens'...

As for entering illegally - sometimes I too would like to be 'off the record', just so I could avoid the quarterly visit to Immigration - a visit which serves no purpose whatsoever, except put 2000 Baht in the hands of Immigration Officials.

In the US, I would have received a 'Green Card' (residency permit) a half dozen years ago, for a moderate fee.

Love the country and the people, but I do get frustrated at their very different 'common sense'....

[dutchguest]

Earlier this year my pinpass has been
skimmed in Holland (how they came to know my pincode I still don't
understand as I always keep my hand above the keybord while pinning).
After a few days or a week (I am not sure when and where exactly my
pass was skimmed) on two consecutive days, a Sunday and a Monday, the
maximum amount for a day was taken from an ATM in Saigon. On Monday I
checked my account and directly informed the bank that money has
disappeared from my account and they immediately blocked my pinpass.
After a week or so the bank returned, without me having to do
anything more, the lost money to my account, after some
investigations.

The banks are responsible (in Holland)
for the proper functioning of their ATM's (unless there is gross
negligence from your side). I don't know the laws in Thailand about
this. I was told by the bank the scammers manipulate generally the
ATM's in western countries, so they can copy the magnetic strip of the pinpass, and use ATM's in countries with not the
newest security on the ATM's and where the chance of being caught is
smaller. Now the banks in Holland are adding a new security measure:
the pinpass can standard only be used in Europe and if you go outside
Europe you can easily online change the functioning of the pass to
worldwide.

So now I advise to only use ATM's in
places where it is not so easy to manipulate ATM's unseen, inside
banks etc., and to check your account daily.

Edited April 6, 2013 by dutchguest