Annual Nervousness: This Is How Joyful A Thai Military Draft Can Be

[katana]

Seen some nasty covertly filmed footage of bullying of your recruits in the Thai army posted on Youtube.

[Almera]

Seen some nasty covertly filmed footage of bullying of your recruits in the Thai army posted on Youtube.

Anything worse than their kindergarten, sorry, university nonsense?

[surangw]

the thai military is rough ( as far as good food goes)

From my time with the thai army in sakon nakon, produce and livestock ( pigs) were raised on base to suppliment the diet,

[katana]

Seen some nasty covertly filmed footage of bullying of your recruits in the Thai army posted on Youtube.

Anything worse than their kindergarten, sorry, university nonsense?

http://asiancorrespondent.com/60760/three-helicopter-crashes-a-young-soldier-beaten-to-death-coups-and-massacres-us-military-training-in-thailand/

[hookedondhamma]

Seen some nasty covertly filmed footage of bullying of your recruits in the Thai army posted on Youtube.

Anything worse than their kindergarten, sorry, university nonsense?

http://asiancorrespondent.com/60760/three-helicopter-crashes-a-young-soldier-beaten-to-death-coups-and-massacres-us-military-training-in-thailand/

Great job! I LOVE it! My turn, my turn! D@mn US training the Thai military! They should stop teaching Thai servicemen to kill kill kill! Incredible article, from close to two years ago and still ripe for the picking - oops, I meant bashing.

[Briggsy]

The army here is not subservient to the government but rather a competitor with the legislature, police, state enterprises, etc. for power and its slice of GDP.

Thailand was a military dictatorship for most of its post-Second World War history.

The draft is a symptom of these facts.

[chrischronic]

Once you kill someone or see your friends killed in combat your life is changed forever.

I will do everything in my power to keep my sons from experiencing these life changing mind ruining horrors.

[Rorri]

Generals etc, here top army, pop 60,000,000, UK eqiv ----APPROX 200 Thailand 2,000. FOR WHAT.

secondly,exemp---medical ---sex change, or equiv----ALSO you can PAY not to go in. other reasons explained.

Personally It would make sense to have voluntary draft, surely at a reasonable income a per-cent would volunteer, fulfilling the required places.

As stated a complete overall of the ( call-up ) needs updating, as so many who have reasonable jobs eventually have to go to the LOTTERY style of compulsary gamble----I thought gambling was illegal.

i doubt the happy guy is concerned about the number of generals per total population ratio in thailand compared with the UK.

Why feel some falang always the need to lecture Thais and tell them they need updates and change there and there so that it is like in the UK?

What is the matter with you ??? I am replying in a normal manner to the Thread, giving my thoughts on the subject, near every time you come back with a swipe..Knock it off---WAS I lecturing ??? NO.

I am happy for the guy also, I would naturally do the same.

I compared because of the statement made about the excess of top brass, and was there a need for this INCONVENIENCE to stop, I am feeling for the Thais that do not want to go in.

Please stop bashing every comment that comes in that you feel is not very welcome IN YOUR EYES.

We are free to coment. lighten up. I am NOT anti Thai, even if I express my feeling on certain matters that could be improved with time.

I suspect ZhouZhou is anti farang, but forgets that Thailand owes some much to foreign investment, intellectual innovation and finance, without that they wouldn't even have light globes, don't believe me, just look around where you are now, and see what was invented by Thais. ZhouZhou, give it all away, and go back to living the old ways of 100 years back.

[BrianCR]

A waste of time and money , the Generals don't want them and they don't want to be there ,time for the government to overhaul the military , tradition is one thing, this out of date custom, interfered with the son's Uni education, so much so that he stopped three language studies, as the Army couldn't provide that in their system, he could be now working International at an embassy , as an interpreter , mind you he has a great citation from the UN for the time in Timor , when he and the mad Major got into a fire fight, he put it away and i have never seen it since.

Thai's do NOT have to take part in the "draft" and it is usually only the lazy ones that do! Most Thai males, when at high school, spend a half day per week "playing military games" and this excludes them from needing to "pick a colour". As for education, even if you were too lazy to do 'the high school military training' your "draft" attendance is deferred for as long as necessary whilst you are receiving higher level education. Strangely enough, most westerners living in their home countries are crying out to bring back military training as a way of teaching their out of control youth ways to behave! Not sure that I agree with this however it is a fact!

[BrianCR]

ZhouZhou, on 06 Apr 2013 - 19:44, said:

MEL1, on 06 Apr 2013 - 19:26, said:

ZhouZhou, on 06 Apr 2013 - 18:28, said:

ginjag, on 06 Apr 2013 - 18:00, said:

Generals etc, here top army, pop 60,000,000, UK eqiv ----APPROX 200 Thailand 2,000. FOR WHAT.

secondly,exemp---medical ---sex change, or equiv----ALSO you can PAY not to go in. other reasons explained.

Personally It would make sense to have voluntary draft, surely at a reasonable income a per-cent would volunteer, fulfilling the required places.

As stated a complete overall of the ( call-up ) needs updating, as so many who have reasonable jobs eventually have to go to the LOTTERY style of compulsary gamble----I thought gambling was illegal.

i doubt the happy guy is concerned about the number of generals per total population ratio in thailand compared with the UK.

Why feel some falang always the need to lecture Thais and tell them they need updates and change there and there so that it is like in the UK?

Zhou Zhou, you're continued ignorance about farang attacking THE THAI SYSTEM is becoming irritable!

Do you really believe Thailand doesn't need continued updates and change, in order to leave the league of third world countries?

Whether it be military, sanitary, emotionally, corruptly etc., and the list could go on infinitum, do you REALLY believe no changes are necessary in Thailand?

You're quite happy with you're lot?

Of course changes are necessary. How many times have you, indeed, visited Western countries such as the UK and America?

Have you experienced the safety and cleanliness? No over-head wires that kill people in floods; no shitty smells from drains (as they are closed in pipes) would just be two simple examples of many countless examples.

What's your problem with farang advice, and comments, for 'up-levelling' Thailand's infrastructure and systems?

It seems you take advice in what I would deem a very personal and tangential way of accepting that change is necessary.

Wouldn't you agree?

-mel.

the question is if "we" need that in every thread here at the forum.

that guy is happy. he don't have to go to the army.

who cares about the number of general in this moment?

those who are deeply and honestly concerned about Thailands future or just those who will find all the time a reason to start bitching.

Best comment yet - with many posters the subject is about what "we want" shouldn't it be left to the 67 million people who were born in this country to make their minds up what "they want"? Believe me after 33 years of living here I meet more unhappy westerners than I do Thai's! Our place in living here is either join with the locals and enjoy ourselves or leave Edited April 7, 2013 by BrianCR

[BrianCR]

Generals etc, here top army, pop 60,000,000, UK eqiv ----APPROX 200 Thailand 2,000. FOR WHAT.

secondly,exemp---medical ---sex change, or equiv----ALSO you can PAY not to go in. other reasons explained.

Personally It would make sense to have voluntary draft, surely at a reasonable income a per-cent would volunteer, fulfilling the required places.

As stated a complete overall of the ( call-up ) needs updating, as so many who have reasonable jobs eventually have to go to the LOTTERY style of compulsary gamble----I thought gambling was illegal.

i doubt the happy guy is concerned about the number of generals per total population ratio in thailand compared with the UK.

Why feel some falang always the need to lecture Thais and tell them they need updates and change there and there so that it is like in the UK?

What is the matter with you ??? I am replying in a normal manner to the Thread, giving my thoughts on the subject, near every time you come back with a swipe..Knock it off---WAS I lecturing ??? NO.

I am happy for the guy also, I would naturally do the same.

I compared because of the statement made about the excess of top brass, and was there a need for this INCONVENIENCE to stop, I am feeling for the Thais that do not want to go in.

Please stop bashing every comment that comes in that you feel is not very welcome IN YOUR EYES.

We are free to coment. lighten up. I am NOT anti Thai, even if I express my feeling on certain matters that could be improved with time.

I suspect ZhouZhou is anti farang, but forgets that Thailand owes some much to foreign investment, intellectual innovation and finance, without that they wouldn't even have light globes, don't believe me, just look around where you are now, and see what was invented by Thais. ZhouZhou, give it all away, and go back to living the old ways of 100 years back.

Isn't that the reason why most farang are living here - because they are sick of the west and all that living there curtails? Why would anyone in their right mind want to leave their home country with all it's problems and then try to introduce those same problems into their adopted country? Doesn't make sense to me - if I wanted all that crap back I'd just go home where it's waiting for me!

[Bellweather]

I can not see the benefit of "training" someone to the 2 or 3 year mark where they may actually start to become a valuable soldier and then turn them loose.

We got 6 weeks basics and were thrown into a low keywar, call up/draft/national service whatever you want to call it, typically the goal has nothing to do with turning anybody in valuable soldier... its to provide bodies who can fire weapons at people they dont like, no more no less...

Once you have completed your time you could always be called up again and they dont need to train you..

Can anyone explain why Thailand needs a conscript army, who do they fear or plan to invade ? I can't see that the average immature Thai man comes out any better.

[Greer]

Generals etc, here top army, pop 60,000,000, UK eqiv ----APPROX 200 Thailand 2,000. FOR WHAT.

secondly,exemp---medical ---sex change, or equiv----ALSO you can PAY not to go in. other reasons explained.

Personally It would make sense to have voluntary draft, surely at a reasonable income a per-cent would volunteer, fulfilling the required places.

As stated a complete overall of the ( call-up ) needs updating, as so many who have reasonable jobs eventually have to go to the LOTTERY style of compulsary gamble----I thought gambling was illegal.

There is ONLY 1700 generals in Thailand..... :-) Actually I just had a flash. With so many generals , the government could easily stop the draft, give weapons to the generals and press them into service when war breaks out. Although they probably would not like being on duty in south Thailand...

Hey I did say approx---but Navy and Air force they count, Your Idea about getting them on the front line instead of doing LITTLE, as far as I can see What do the near 2,000 do every day ??? Feel sorry for the kids that didn't do the school bit to make them exempt---the parents must have thought it wasn't important.

My son is 15 now, so he is safe from the draft for the moment, but I thought he should join the army or navy cadet thing at school so I asked my daughter about it, as she had already volunteered to join the army cadet system at school, but she told me that the exemption for kids who had joined the cadet system no longer applies.

Also to answer the question by an earlier poster about children of mixed Thai/foreign families, yes they are considered eligible for national service if they have been registered as Thai citizens (as my kids were).

[Greer]

I can't help thinking that a short term of military service can be a positive thing.

I was discussing this last night with my son after seeing that video clip on a Thai website, he isn't too keen on the idea and I think it's expected that I'd just pay to have him exempted, but I think it would do him good if he has to do it. I understand that at age 21 it may be difficult to see it that way.

I never did any time in any of the armed forces, and it's one of my few real regrets in life.

I know some people are exempt anyway, such as transgendered. How about children of Thai/Foreign parents?

It is a great experience. I was in the military for four years and it changed me for the better.

I've heard conflicting things about children of Thai/foreign parents but I think it may have to do with residency and obviously citizenship. Although I remember reading a letter to the editor in the Bangkok Post about a year ago from a woman complaining that her son (father is foreign) couldn't get citizenship but he was nonetheless drafted.

I very much doubt that - you cant serve in the government at any level - police, armed forces etc, unless you are a Thai citizen. The exemptions that are allowed are voluntary posts, or where special circumstances dictate that a foreigner is needed to provide certain services - and that certainly would not be the case for an untrained 21 year old. So they must have accepted, that he was Thai - otherwise how could he appear on the list for the lottery? Also if he had no Thai ID card (indicating that he was Thai), how could he be referenced at all?

[Greer]

A waste of time and money , the Generals don't want them and they don't want to be there ,time for the government to overhaul the military , tradition is one thing, this out of date custom, interfered with the son's Uni education, so much so that he stopped three language studies, as the Army couldn't provide that in their system, he could be now working International at an embassy , as an interpreter , mind you he has a great citation from the UN for the time in Timor , when he and the mad Major got into a fire fight, he put it away and i have never seen it since.

Thai's do NOT have to take part in the "draft" and it is usually only the lazy ones that do! Most Thai males, when at high school, spend a half day per week "playing military games" and this excludes them from needing to "pick a colour". As for education, even if you were too lazy to do 'the high school military training' your "draft" attendance is deferred for as long as necessary whilst you are receiving higher level education. Strangely enough, most westerners living in their home countries are crying out to bring back military training as a way of teaching their out of control youth ways to behave! Not sure that I agree with this however it is a fact!

No I was told by my daughter, who was in that school army cadet training system, that it no longer exempts the boys from the lottery.

[Greer]

Isn't that the reason why most farang are living here - because they are sick of the west and all that living there curtails? Why would anyone in their right mind want to leave their home country with all it's problems and then try to introduce those same problems into their adopted country? Doesn't make sense to me - if I wanted all that crap back I'd just go home where it's waiting for me!

I think moderation is the key here - obviously many farang live here because they love the country and lifestyle, the food, their family (for those of us married to Thai's and with kids born here), and many other reasons - otherwise it is patently obvious that they would not be here - however, there is absolutely nothing wrong with picking the good bits out of the foreign countries and implementing them here.

I think its just that maybe many farang have a rather direct way of saying things that is neither understood, nor appreciated by the locals - so its not that the idea of bringing improvements from overseas to Thailand is bad in itself, just that the way it is presented is often the problem.

I am certain that there is not one Thai that would defend the retaining of the disgusting black klongs, for example, - even Saen Sab with boats travelling along much of its length and churning oxygen into its depths, stinks. I am certain that every Thai would love to see those klongs with clean and clear water, or even slightly muddy water, flowing through them as they meander through our cities - but and I have experienced this first hand, you cant just criticise or even raise that issue and make comparisons with elsewhere, as it is human nature for most people to defend their home or their opinion even if they know that they are defending a wrong.

So if the criticism is made in a less confrontational way, it will often be accepted. Its about saying "I would like to help - lets work together to fix this..." rather than "You have to fix this because its crap..."

Just a thought....

[backtonormal]

Its the elites last chance to indoctrinate you after leaving school, unless you have the required 30k, then it just corruption. I believe Thaksin (1st mention in this thread) will eventually get his choice of C in C and then we will see the transformation of the RTA and a complete downsizing of forces. if nothing else it will be a sure vote winner with the young men if conscription goes out the window. After the next election victory is my guess.

[Credo]

If I had a young male child, I would take a great interest in seeing the Southern situation resolved. I would take a great interest in conflict resolution between the reds and the yellows.

[BrianCR]

Isn't that the reason why most farang are living here - because they are sick of the west and all that living there curtails? Why would anyone in their right mind want to leave their home country with all it's problems and then try to introduce those same problems into their adopted country? Doesn't make sense to me - if I wanted all that crap back I'd just go home where it's waiting for me!

I think moderation is the key here - obviously many farang live here because they love the country and lifestyle, the food, their family (for those of us married to Thai's and with kids born here), and many other reasons - otherwise it is patently obvious that they would not be here - however, there is absolutely nothing wrong with picking the good bits out of the foreign countries and implementing them here.

I think its just that maybe many farang have a rather direct way of saying things that is neither understood, nor appreciated by the locals - so its not that the idea of bringing improvements from overseas to Thailand is bad in itself, just that the way it is presented is often the problem.

I am certain that there is not one Thai that would defend the retaining of the disgusting black klongs, for example, - even Saen Sab with boats travelling along much of its length and churning oxygen into its depths, stinks. I am certain that every Thai would love to see those klongs with clean and clear water, or even slightly muddy water, flowing through them as they meander through our cities - but and I have experienced this first hand, you cant just criticise or even raise that issue and make comparisons with elsewhere, as it is human nature for most people to defend their home or their opinion even if they know that they are defending a wrong.

So if the criticism is made in a less confrontational way, it will often be accepted. Its about saying "I would like to help - lets work together to fix this..." rather than "You have to fix this because its crap..."

Just a thought....

I agree with you, very well put!

[BrianCR]

A waste of time and money , the Generals don't want them and they don't want to be there ,time for the government to overhaul the military , tradition is one thing, this out of date custom, interfered with the son's Uni education, so much so that he stopped three language studies, as the Army couldn't provide that in their system, he could be now working International at an embassy , as an interpreter , mind you he has a great citation from the UN for the time in Timor , when he and the mad Major got into a fire fight, he put it away and i have never seen it since.

Thai's do NOT have to take part in the "draft" and it is usually only the lazy ones that do! Most Thai males, when at high school, spend a half day per week "playing military games" and this excludes them from needing to "pick a colour". As for education, even if you were too lazy to do 'the high school military training' your "draft" attendance is deferred for as long as necessary whilst you are receiving higher level education. Strangely enough, most westerners living in their home countries are crying out to bring back military training as a way of teaching their out of control youth ways to behave! Not sure that I agree with this however it is a fact!

No I was told by my daughter, who was in that school army cadet training system, that it no longer exempts the boys from the lottery.

What can I say? If your daughter says so she must be right - however my local school headmaster seems to think that it still applies and only boys are admitted - girls attend the girl guides during these periods. Are you by any chance getting confused with the outside of school army cadets?

[BrianCR]

I can not see the benefit of "training" someone to the 2 or 3 year mark where they may actually start to become a valuable soldier and then turn them loose.

We got 6 weeks basics and were thrown into a low keywar, call up/draft/national service whatever you want to call it, typically the goal has nothing to do with turning anybody in valuable soldier... its to provide bodies who can fire weapons at people they dont like, no more no less...

Once you have completed your time you could always be called up again and they dont need to train you..

Can anyone explain why Thailand needs a conscript army, who do they fear or plan to invade ? I can't see that the average immature Thai man comes out any better.

Burmese, Cambodians and Malays making frequent trips over the border and before anyone comments no, not for visa runs!

[Almera]

Can anyone explain why Thailand needs a conscript army

Because without it who would be giving them envelopes full of money?

Create the problem, and the cure for a price.

[SteeleJoe]

.i doubt the happy guy is concerned about the number of generals per total population ratio in thailand compared with the UK.Why feel some falang always the need to lecture Thais and tell them they need updates and change there and there so that it is like in the UK?

I didn't see any lecture but I'm not interested in squabbling about it. However, I will point out that it is simply an objective fact - well known by even a casual observer let alone military scholars and analysts et al - that Thailand's armed forces has a hugely bloated officer corps and that it is detrimental to the military and the country as whole, for a number of reasons.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[SteeleJoe]

i have seen decent people turned into not so smart people after the joined the service.

I can't speak for your experience and I wouldn't call you a liar without evidence, but I find that statement EXTREMELY dubious.

The military is not for everyone, nor is everything about likely to be a positive experience. I'll even allow that for some people, it might bring out the worst in them (just as it absolutely brings out the best in others); but absent rather extraordinary circumstances, it doesn't make "decent people" less intelligent.

Then again, what effect it has would vary depending not only on the people involved but the military experience in question - some are institutionally far more brutal than others.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[chainarong]

Generals etc, here top army, pop 60,000,000, UK equiv ----APPROX 200 Thailand 2,000. FOR WHAT.

secondly,exempt---medical ---sex change, or equiv----ALSO you can PAY not to go in. other reasons explained.

Personally It would make sense to have voluntary draft, surely at a reasonable income a per-cent would volunteer, fulfilling the required places.

As stated a complete overall of the ( call-up ) needs updating, as so many who have reasonable jobs eventually have to go to the LOTTERY style of compulsory gamble----I thought gambling was illegal.

i doubt the happy guy is concerned about the number of generals per total population ratio in thailand compared with the UK.

Why feel some falang always the need to lecture Thais and tell them they need updates and change there and there so that it is like in the UK?

Thailand is in a vacuum and has been for decades ZHOu ZHOu, you must always move forward , you might start to realize that everyone wants to help Thailand , if you study the Thaivisa you will see thailand has so many problems that have been mostly brought about by the former Junta and bad self serving politicians, badly structured government departments, putting your head in the sand wont fix anything ,Thailand is going around in circles. you must be progressive and move forward, first thing to fix is your education system and the Thai people must have more say who puts up for parliament and the business of Parliament

[rametindallas]

Generals etc, here top army, pop 60,000,000, UK eqiv ----APPROX 200 Thailand 2,000. FOR WHAT.

secondly,exemp---medical ---sex change, or equiv----ALSO you can PAY not to go in. other reasons explained.

Personally It would make sense to have voluntary draft, surely at a reasonable income a per-cent would volunteer, fulfilling the required places.

As stated a complete overall of the ( call-up ) needs updating, as so many who have reasonable jobs eventually have to go to the LOTTERY style of compulsary gamble----I thought gambling was illegal.

i doubt the happy guy is concerned about the number of generals per total population ratio in thailand compared with the UK.

Why feel some falang always the need to lecture Thais and tell them they need updates and change there and there so that it is like in the UK?

ginjag merely stated a fact, re: generals per population Thailand vs UK, without comment. Why do you choose to mischaracterize his statement of fact as 'lecturing' Thais. This forum is mostly farang as far as I can tell and no one is 'lecturing' Thais. Your constant nit-picking is becoming tiresome. Please stop complaining and add some constructive opinion to the subject at hand.

[cdnvic]

Please keep the Royal Family out of the discussion.

[Dap]

I can't help thinking that a short term of military service can be a positive thing.

I was discussing this last night with my son after seeing that video clip on a Thai website, he isn't too keen on the idea and I think it's expected that I'd just pay to have him exempted, but I think it would do him good if he has to do it. I understand that at age 21 it may be difficult to see it that way.

I never did any time in any of the armed forces, and it's one of my few real regrets in life.

I know some people are exempt anyway, such as transgendered. How about children of Thai/Foreign parents?

i have seen decent people turned into not so smart people after the joined the service.

better pay to have him exempted.

"i have seen decent people turned into not so smart people after the joined the service."

Is this even possible? Have you performed your duty in this respect ZZ? Are you one of the people who served and is now "not so smart'? Did you actually think about what you posted? Do you simply argue for the sake of reading your own posts? Just askin'.

[rbrooks]

Generals etc, here top army, pop 60,000,000, UK eqiv ----APPROX 200 Thailand 2,000. FOR WHAT.

secondly,exemp---medical ---sex change, or equiv----ALSO you can PAY not to go in. other reasons explained.

Personally It would make sense to have voluntary draft, surely at a reasonable income a per-cent would volunteer, fulfilling the required places.

As stated a complete overall of the ( call-up ) needs updating, as so many who have reasonable jobs eventually have to go to the LOTTERY style of compulsary gamble----I thought gambling was illegal.

i doubt the happy guy is concerned about the number of generals per total population ratio in thailand compared with the UK.

Why feel some falang always the need to lecture Thais and tell them they need updates and change there and there so that it is like in the UK?

Zhou Zhou, you're continued ignorance about farang attacking THE THAI SYSTEM is becoming irritable!

Do you really believe Thailand doesn't need continued updates and change, in order to leave the league of third world countries?

Whether it be military, sanitary, emotionally, corruptly etc., and the list could go on infinitum, do you REALLY believe no changes are necessary in Thailand?

You're quite happy with you're lot?

Of course changes are necessary. How many times have you, indeed, visited Western countries such as the UK and America?

Have you experienced the safety and cleanliness? No over-head wires that kill people in floods; no shitty smells from drains (as they are closed in pipes) would just be two simple examples of many countless examples.

What's your problem with farang advice, and comments, for 'up-levelling' Thailand's infrastructure and systems?

It seems you take advice in what I would deem a very personal and tangential way of accepting that change is necessary.

Wouldn't you agree?

-mel.

There is always room for improvement in every country especially Thailand. It is the countries that believe they are above improvement, like Thailand, that really have a problem and will forever stay in the dark cave they came from and prevent needed change to improve the lives of their masses. Just an opinion, I could be wrong.

[fasteddie]

I've never been in the Thai armed forces and know very few people who are. Having said that.. I spent 10 years in the USMC and I'm positive it made a better person of me. This was in the 60's including 2 tours in Vietnam. I don't see anything wrong with doing some military service. As long as you have a decent attitude about it. If you do your military service bitchin and moanin for 2 years, what good has that done you. I'm of the school who believes everyone should serve the country he or she was born to. It most ceretainly gives you a different outlook on life. I remember the South Vietnamese military, of about 90% who didn't want to be there. They were pretty much useless. Look at the difference between the North Vietnamese army and the South. It was a joke. If you don't love your country enough to defend it, then you should go find another country to call home. Look at the US military forces today. Their the best trained, best equipped army on the face of the planet. And fortunately today, most of them are in some field that they can use after their military service, not like in my day. So I guess what I'm trying to say about the Thai draft, screw em, draft em all.

"Their the best trained, best equipped army on the face of the planet"

They're most definitely not the best trained army in the world, that would be the Brits! Equipped maybe, but the IDF would challenge that even.