Fuses, Breakers, Amps, Max Load... Crossy!

[Forkinhades]

why do i get 45A supply when there are fuses with 32A and MCBs with 40A?

The fuses have no effect on your load, they feed only the sensors etc.

You actually have 43A (if that is actually the rating of the Safe-T-Cut MCBs), if they are not opening then no need to upgrade. A change to 50A MCBs would be acceptable to PEA on your 15/45 meter (it's what we have) if you need a few more Amps.

MCBs are cheap, why not try a 10A one in place of one of the fuses and see how it works before swapping all the fuses for MCBs?

Enjoy the Archa Forky, we have Kingfisher or Kingfisher in the hotel bar (in Bangalore, India)

Love to meet up and have a beer with you fella, absolutely anytime

Edited April 11, 2013 by Forkinhades

[Forkinhades]

@ Naam

what you need now is a good sparky with a GOOD low reading ohm meter to exactly identify the fault!

[Naam]

@ Naam

what you need now is a good sparky with a GOOD low reading ohm meter to exactly identify the fault!

that's like looking for the reason why the ingrown toenail i had five years ago

[Crossy]

@ Naam

what you need now is a good sparky with a GOOD low reading ohm meter to exactly identify the fault!

that's like looking for the reason why the ingrown toenail i had five years ago

I was thinking of rocking horse droppings or hen's teeth.

[bankruatsteve]

Just wondering... I've followed this link (perhaps not thoroughly) and so there is 3-phase being controlled by a widget box that occasionally blows a fuse. Is that the jist? I don't like to "google" so what is the widget box doing? Why does he need it? Hope no one finds this contentious, I don't have any experience with 3-phase and just wonder what this is about?

[Naam]

Just wondering... I've followed this link (perhaps not thoroughly) and so there is 3-phase being controlled by a widget box that occasionally blows a fuse. Is that the jist? I don't like to "google" so what is the widget box doing? Why does he need it? Hope no one finds this contentious, I don't have any experience with 3-phase and just wonder what this is about?

here's the beef:

-custom built "thingy" which switches off individual phase(s) when voltage differs ±10%

in case of low voltage the starting relays of my pumps and aircon compressors are burning. quite often i even had to change the capacitors.

-if i replace them myself i have problems with my wife because she does not approve my cursing and uttering utmost obscene words in a very loud voice.

-if i call a Thai sparky he will arrive when he pleases and even if i tell him on the phone what the problem is and what parts i need he'll arrive empty handed because "must look first!"

-then he goes to buy the parts for (depending) 1,800-2,500 Baht and for coming twice to my home he charges me at least (a justified) 500 Baht, summa summarum 2,300-3,000 Baht.

-the "thingy" i had built and installed senses voltage differences and shuts the relevant phase down completely thus preventing any damage. it also senses when the phase(s) is/are back at nominal voltage, opens the circuit... et voilà!

-for that "thingy" custom built and installed i paid something like 32,000 (?) Baht equivalent to the cost of a dozen burned relays and some capacitors plus i avoid the prolonged standstill of pumps or aircons. it's no fun to take a dump in a hot environment and then go with a bucket to the pool to get water to flush the toilet. and of course it's no fun hearing the (potential) muttering of the Mrs "why do we have to live in a godforsaken country where one can't flush a toilet and where they don't speak <insert language>?"

got it Steve?

[Forkinhades]

^ well you know who to call, and thats ghostbusters!!

you know what to do.....................do it

[bankruatsteve]

Hey Naam. Actually, I don't get it. ie: why you would want to shut down phases at only 10% diff (?) to protect equipment that (ok I don't really know) should be able to protect themselves from that sort of thing. And, from what I can gather from this thread, the widget's performance is erratic anyway. Maybe you should yank it out and invest in your own transformer? Which is not a qualified suggestion but an OTB thought. Cheers.

[Bronzepickup]

SIR! YES SIR! stupid me SIR! why didn't i realise that before?

If the air con unit packs up in my home (like it did last time I was there) the missus calls the local sparky who put all the electrics in originally, and it gets sorted. Safely. No big song or dance.

Local sparky doesn't want everybody knowing he burned the house down that local carpenter Noi and his Wife built does he? Not good for business. Words spread like wildfire in village community. And Noi and his Wife would be very unhappy too. So would his 8 chippies.

I don't have to worry about the other 18 air con units.

Nice one Mr T Forkhandle or whatever your name is.

SIR! YES SIR!

[Naam]

Hey Naam. Actually, I don't get it. ie: why you would want to shut down phases at only 10% diff (?) to protect equipment that (ok I don't really know) should be able to protect themselves from that sort of thing. And, from what I can gather from this thread, the widget's performance is erratic anyway. Maybe you should yank it out and invest in your own transformer? Which is not a qualified suggestion but an OTB thought. Cheers.

-i can adjust the setting between 0% and 30%

-the "widget's" performance was not erratic but an exemplary excellent 100%

-the one and only failure of a fuse in 5½ years did not affect the performance at all

-gadgets protecting themselves? keep on dreaming!

i fully agree with "ok i don't really know" and "not a qualified suggestion"

[Naam]

I don't have to worry about the other 18 air con units.

you never switch them on?

[Naam]

the missus calls the local sparky who put all the electrics in originally, and it gets sorted. Safely. No big song or dance.

whom will your Missus call if your local sparky who did all the electrics has moved to Thailand's "restive south", changed his phone number and is incommunicado or perhaps killed by the "insurgents"?

or will she call the local wat and ask for some monks to solve the problem by chanting prayers?

[doglover]

-under certain conditions load exceeds 32amps on individual phases

(main reason number of aircons, total number withheld to prevent stupid and

irrelevant comments from the usual suspects)

My comment about why a guy needs 19 air cons was a joke. My goodness you boys are a tight bunch!

[Naam]

-under certain conditions load exceeds 32amps on individual phases

(main reason number of aircons, total number withheld to prevent stupid and

irrelevant comments from the usual suspects)

My comment about why a guy needs 19 air cons was a joke. My goodness you boys are a tight bunch!

boys will be boys!

[Mudcrab]

Crossy, on 10 Apr 2013 - 12:21, said:

Welcome to the mad world of Thai electrics sandrabbit

As an industrial sparky I would welcome your thoughts on the inrush current of contactor coils. Naam's panel has under-voltage sensors driving slave relays which in turn drive the contactor coils. It seems that the fuses are only feeding the sensors etc, the load current is not does not appear to be passing through them.

There is a problem with the 30A fuses popping, would you think that a single contactor coil is likely to pop a 30A fuse?

it is a mad world here, I bought a condo which had been refurbished to a high standard but when I checked the sockets about 90% of them were wired live and neutral reversed which is not normally a problem as most electrical equipment now are 2 wire devices without earths although I did have to open up my distribution board to make sure it wasn't reversed there which would make things still live if a mcb tripped.

Contactor coils of the size in the pictures would have a negligible inrush current, their resistance would be in kilo ohms although they usually have a suppressor or capacitor across them to prevent a voltage surge. A contactor coil would have to have a short in it somewhere to blow 30A fuses and it wouldn't be an intermittent fault, it would be permanent.

The only thing that concerned me on reading the post the first time was about having a 3 phase supply in a domestic environment which means you could have a very nasty 400V shock if you managed to get across 2 phases, you have to be qualified in the UK to work at or above mains voltages. When I reread it seems more like a commercial installation than domestic but my previous advice is still the same, leave it to a qualified guy ( I mean practically not just on paper)as 3 phase will really bite you in the arse and the current available to the circuits could certainly start a fire instantly in a fault condition. If the a/c units can be programmed set them not to restart after a blackout might be a good idea or have the circuit modified so it doesn't reset.

p.s. don't trust a cheap digital multimeter to say the circuit is voltage free and put your fingers in, in work I usually find a voltage source to check my multimeter before my fingers go anywhere near any electrical equipment and my personal meter is a Fluke.

Standard procedure: Check meter against known voltage source - take reading at point of test - check meter against known voltage source again.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Mudcrab

[Crossy]

Personally I prefer to have the main breaker open and locked and (if possible) the reassuring bulge of the fuse in my pocket.

Failing that, a neon screwdriver and/or a voltstick on the relevant circuit (verify it's working by testing the incoming supply).

Even then I treat every wire as potentially hot and avoid touching exposed copper, I've been bitten too often.

Apart from the required periodic calibration and possibly monthly confidence checks, does anyone in the sparking industry check his meter other than when it gives an unexpected reading?

[Mudcrab]

The only thing that concerned me on reading the post the first time was

about having a 3 phase supply in a domestic environment which means you

could have a very nasty 400V shock if you managed to get across 2

phases, you have to be qualified in the UK to work at or above mains

voltages.

yawwwnnnn... here we go UK again as so often. no offence meant! how would you suggest to supply a domestic environment with 19 airconditioners, 7 pumps, not to talk about fridges, freezers, cooktops, 4 females washing hair using 4 instant water heaters? single phase?

hardly a "domestic installation" in the usual sense...more like a commercial install in my not so humble opinion of close to 40 years in the trade.

My simple advise to you is to get someone who really knows what he is doing and have a thorough inspection of the whole installation before:

a) you suffer more expensive equipment failures

the whole place goes up in smoke or

c) someone gets electrocuted..

You can get all the advice you want on a forum like TV but ultimately you are the person in control. No doubt all the advice given is valid and reasonable but unfortunately many people have become complacent with electricity (including old hand electricians). Many other people have received a "tingle" not realising the fine line between a giggle and death and have thus also developed a sense of false security.

Mate, for the sake of yourself, family an friends, pay someone who knows their stuff to go over the install.

[Mudcrab]

The only thing that concerned me on reading the post the first time was

about having a 3 phase supply in a domestic environment which means you

could have a very nasty 400V shock if you managed to get across 2

phases, you have to be qualified in the UK to work at or above mains

voltages.

yawwwnnnn... here we go UK again as so often. no offence meant! how would you suggest to supply a domestic environment with 19 airconditioners, 7 pumps, not to talk about fridges, freezers, cooktops, 4 females washing hair using 4 instant water heaters? single phase?

hardly a "domestic installation" in the usual sense...more like a commercial install in my not so humble opinion of close to 40 years in the trade.

My simple advise to you is to get someone who really knows what he is doing and have a thorough inspection of the whole installation before:

a) you suffer more expensive equipment failures

the whole place goes up in smoke or

c) someone gets electrocuted..

You can get all the advice you want on a forum like TV but ultimately you are the person in control. No doubt all the advice given is valid and reasonable but unfortunately many people have become complacent with electricity (including old hand electricians). Many other people have received a "tingle" not realising the fine line between a giggle and death and have thus also developed a sense of false security.

Mate, for the sake of yourself, family an friends, pay someone who knows their stuff to go over the install.

My mistake...its not close 40 years in the trade it is 40 years. maybe the electrons have finally started to get to me

[Mudcrab]

Just wondering... I've followed this link (perhaps not thoroughly) and so there is 3-phase being controlled by a widget box that occasionally blows a fuse. Is that the jist? I don't like to "google" so what is the widget box doing? Why does he need it? Hope no one finds this contentious, I don't have any experience with 3-phase and just wonder what this is about?

here's the beef:

>-custom built "thingy" which switches off individual phase(s) when voltage differs ±10%

in case of low voltage the starting relays of my pumps and aircon compressors are burning. quite often i even had to change the capacitors.

-if i replace them myself i have problems with my wife because she does not approve my cursing and uttering utmost obscene words in a very loud voice.

-if i call a Thai sparky he will arrive when he pleases and even if i tell him on the phone what the problem is and what parts i need he'll arrive empty handed because "must look first!"

-then he goes to buy the parts for (depending) 1,800-2,500 Baht and for coming twice to my home he charges me at least (a justified) 500 Baht, summa summarum 2,300-3,000 Baht.

-the "thingy" i had built and installed senses voltage differences and shuts the relevant phase down completely thus preventing any damage. it also senses when the phase(s) is/are back at nominal voltage, opens the circuit... et voilà!

-for that "thingy" custom built and installed i paid something like 32,000 (?) Baht equivalent to the cost of a dozen burned relays and some capacitors plus i avoid the prolonged standstill of pumps or aircons. it's no fun to take a dump in a hot environment and then go with a bucket to the pool to get water to flush the toilet. and of course it's no fun hearing the (potential) muttering of the Mrs "why do we have to live in a godforsaken country where one can't flush a toilet and where they don't speak <insert language>?"

got it Steve?

Invest in a few electronic 3 phase soft starters and you will have no hassles with voltage drop with multiple devices starting (assuming you air cons and pumps are three phase). If not get a simple PLC and programme it to control starting. These can be bought very cheaply these days.

[Mudcrab]

Personally I prefer to have the main breaker open and locked and (if possible) the reassuring bulge of the fuse in my pocket.

Failing that, a neon screwdriver and/or a voltstick on the relevant circuit (verify it's working by testing the incoming supply).

Even then I treat every wire as potentially hot and avoid touching exposed copper, I've been bitten too often.

Apart from the required periodic calibration and possibly monthly confidence checks, does anyone in the sparking industry check his meter other than when it gives an unexpected reading?

Most likely they don't...never implied they did. Just stated standard procedure. can't agree with the neon screwdriver though...too easy to swap the resistor/neon for a glass fuse....as we all did for a laugh back in the good old days. I'll stick with a Fluke.

I guess the other point to make and, I'm sure you will agree, is that when a fault is found in an electrical install, it is very often the case that there are other faults also. This bloke needs to have the whole installation checked out by someone qualified and experienced.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Mudcrab

[Crossy]

I know neons are out of favour with the UK sparking community, mainly due to the potential for shock if one gets damaged or damp, they are however a simple and cheap way of proving live (not dead). Voltsticks are the better alternative, but they still only prove live.

It seems that Naam only has an occasional fuse failure and whilst it would be interesting to know why I doubt there is anything fundamentally amiss with his undervolt arrangement.

Do note that the largest single-phase supply available in many parts of Thailand is 45A. Even a modest 'farang' family house with a few A/Cs and on-demand water heaters will be pushing that, 3-phase domestic is far more common here than in the civilised world.

[Naam]

The only thing that concerned me on reading the post the first time was

about having a 3 phase supply in a domestic environment which means you

could have a very nasty 400V shock if you managed to get across 2

phases, you have to be qualified in the UK to work at or above mains

voltages.

yawwwnnnn... here we go UK again as so often. no offence meant! how would you suggest to supply a domestic environment with 19 airconditioners, 7 pumps, not to talk about fridges, freezers, cooktops, 4 females washing hair using 4 instant water heaters? single phase?

hardly a "domestic installation" in the usual sense...more like a commercial install in my not so humble opinion of close to 40 years in the trade.

My simple advise to you is to get someone who really knows what he is doing and have a thorough inspection of the whole installation before:

a) you suffer more expensive equipment failures

the whole place goes up in smoke or

c) someone gets electrocuted..

You can get all the advice you want on a forum like TV but ultimately you are the person in control. No doubt all the advice given is valid and reasonable but unfortunately many people have become complacent with electricity (including old hand electricians). Many other people have received a "tingle" not realising the fine line between a giggle and death and have thus also developed a sense of false security.

Mate, for the sake of yourself, family an friends, pay someone who knows their stuff to go over the install.

Mate, for the sake of my peace of mind keep your various ridiculous advice, or sell it to some idiot but don't insult my intelligence! 40 years in the trade and you find a house with a 3-phase connection "commercial"? where did you spend these 40 years? in a remote area in Papua New Guinea where you advised the headhunters how not to incinerate their huts with candles?

in my home country Germany there was not a single home built since the late 1960s which is not connected to the grid with a 3-phase, most of the time 3x60A, small homes 3x30A!

i admit my English is not perfect because it's my third language. but where did i mention something like "hassle"? i mentioned that i had one (meaning one twelfth of a dozen) tripped fuse within a period of 5½ years and you call that a hassle?

please give me a break dear learned Sir, i most humbly beg of you.

[Naam]

Personally I prefer to have the main breaker open and locked and (if possible) the reassuring bulge of the fuse in my pocket.

Failing that, a neon screwdriver and/or a voltstick on the relevant circuit (verify it's working by testing the incoming supply).

Even then I treat every wire as potentially hot and avoid touching exposed copper, I've been bitten too often.

Apart from the required periodic calibration and possibly monthly confidence checks, does anyone in the sparking industry check his meter other than when it gives an unexpected reading?

Most likely they don't...never implied they did. Just stated standard procedure. can't agree with the neon screwdriver though...too easy to swap the resistor/neon for a glass fuse....as we all did for a laugh back in the good old days. I'll stick with a Fluke.

I guess the other point to make and, I'm sure you will agree, is that when a fault is found in an electrical install, it is very often the case that there are other faults also. This bloke needs to have the whole installation checked out by someone qualified and experienced.

this bloke holds a doctorate in physics as well as a Master's degree in mechanical engineering and was for nearly two decades sole project manager in half a dozen countries building and starting more than half a dozen industrial projects none smaller in value than several hundred million Dollars. and this bloke never worried about a single tripped fuse.

p.s. this bloke also is highly amused when teasing Brits or Aussies concerning their paranoia about electrical danger. he also laughs out

loudly (or feels like crying) when he looks at British Engineering such

as a simple socket.

Crossy is well aware of the above-mentioned and never held it against me.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Naam

[Pacificperson]

Quite an interesting thread. I learned something new.

[Mudcrab]

The only thing that concerned me on reading the post the first time was

about having a 3 phase supply in a domestic environment which means you

could have a very nasty 400V shock if you managed to get across 2

phases, you have to be qualified in the UK to work at or above mains

voltages.

yawwwnnnn... here we go UK again as so often. no offence meant! how would you suggest to supply a domestic environment with 19 airconditioners, 7 pumps, not to talk about fridges, freezers, cooktops, 4 females washing hair using 4 instant water heaters? single phase?

hardly a "domestic installation" in the usual sense...more like a commercial install in my not so humble opinion of close to 40 years in the trade.

My simple advise to you is to get someone who really knows what he is doing and have a thorough inspection of the whole installation before:

a) you suffer more expensive equipment failures

the whole place goes up in smoke or

c) someone gets electrocuted..

You can get all the advice you want on a forum like TV but ultimately you are the person in control. No doubt all the advice given is valid and reasonable but unfortunately many people have become complacent with electricity (including old hand electricians). Many other people have received a "tingle" not realising the fine line between a giggle and death and have thus also developed a sense of false security.

Mate, for the sake of yourself, family an friends, pay someone who knows their stuff to go over the install.

Mate, for the sake of my peace of mind keep your various ridiculous advice, or sell it to some idiot but don't insult my intelligence! 40 years in the trade and you find a house with a 3-phase connection "commercial"? where did you spend these 40 years? in a remote area in Papua New Guinea where you advised the headhunters how not to incinerate their huts with candles?

in my home country Germany there was not a single home built since the late 1960s which is not connected to the grid with a 3-phase, most of the time 3x60A, small homes 3x30A!

i admit my English is not perfect because it's my third language. but where did i mention something like "hassle"? i mentioned that i had one (meaning one twelfth of a dozen) tripped fuse within a period of 5½ years and you call that a hassle?

please give me a break dear learned Sir, i most humbly beg of you.

No my old son,

180amps isn't particularly big, but bigger then most domestic installations. There is simply no need for such a high current supply in a house. A 19 room brothel perhaps, but as I said , not a domestic install.. I think you are mistaken about the 3 phase installations in your home country. Certainly there would be a three phase supply running past each residence but I strongly doubt that each three phase was connected to each residence. Simply makes no sense to do so. Perhaps two phase if you had an industrial strength cooker or water heater. Apart from that, from an electrical engineering perspective, it makes no sense.

I did not insult your intelligence sir, indeed I never implied you had any.

[Mudcrab]

Personally I prefer to have the main breaker open and locked and (if possible) the reassuring bulge of the fuse in my pocket.

Failing that, a neon screwdriver and/or a voltstick on the relevant circuit (verify it's working by testing the incoming supply).

Even then I treat every wire as potentially hot and avoid touching exposed copper, I've been bitten too often.

Apart from the required periodic calibration and possibly monthly confidence checks, does anyone in the sparking industry check his meter other than when it gives an unexpected reading?

Most likely they don't...never implied they did. Just stated standard procedure. can't agree with the neon screwdriver though...too easy to swap the resistor/neon for a glass fuse....as we all did for a laugh back in the good old days. I'll stick with a Fluke.

I guess the other point to make and, I'm sure you will agree, is that when a fault is found in an electrical install, it is very often the case that there are other faults also. This bloke needs to have the whole installation checked out by someone qualified and experienced.

this bloke holds a doctorate in physics as well as a Master's degree in mechanical engineering and was for nearly two decades sole project manager in half a dozen countries building and starting more than half a dozen industrial projects none smaller in value than several hundred million Dollars. and this bloke never worried about a single tripped fuse.

p.s. this bloke also is highly amused when teasing Brits or Aussies concerning their paranoia about electrical danger. he also laughs out

loudly (or feels like crying) when he looks at British Engineering such

as a simple socket.

Crossy is well aware of the above-mentioned and never held it against me.

[Mudcrab]

Personally I prefer to have the main breaker open and locked and (if possible) the reassuring bulge of the fuse in my pocket.

Failing that, a neon screwdriver and/or a voltstick on the relevant circuit (verify it's working by testing the incoming supply).

Even then I treat every wire as potentially hot and avoid touching exposed copper, I've been bitten too often.

Apart from the required periodic calibration and possibly monthly confidence checks, does anyone in the sparking industry check his meter other than when it gives an unexpected reading?

Most likely they don't...never implied they did. Just stated standard procedure. can't agree with the neon screwdriver though...too easy to swap the resistor/neon for a glass fuse....as we all did for a laugh back in the good old days. I'll stick with a Fluke.

I guess the other point to make and, I'm sure you will agree, is that when a fault is found in an electrical install, it is very often the case that there are other faults also. This bloke needs to have the whole installation checked out by someone qualified and experienced.

this bloke holds a doctorate in physics as well as a Master's degree in mechanical engineering and was for nearly two decades sole project manager in half a dozen countries building and starting more than half a dozen industrial projects none smaller in value than several hundred million Dollars. and this bloke never worried about a single tripped fuse.

p.s. this bloke also is highly amused when teasing Brits or Aussies concerning their paranoia about electrical danger. he also laughs out

loudly (or feels like crying) when he looks at British Engineering such

as a simple socket.

Crossy is well aware of the above-mentioned and never held it against me.

I too laugh at the British system. I also laugh at the Thai system. I hope you continue to laugh.....not cry

[Mudcrab]

Personally I prefer to have the main breaker open and locked and (if possible) the reassuring bulge of the fuse in my pocket.

Failing that, a neon screwdriver and/or a voltstick on the relevant circuit (verify it's working by testing the incoming supply).

Even then I treat every wire as potentially hot and avoid touching exposed copper, I've been bitten too often.

Apart from the required periodic calibration and possibly monthly confidence checks, does anyone in the sparking industry check his meter other than when it gives an unexpected reading?

Most likely they don't...never implied they did. Just stated standard procedure. can't agree with the neon screwdriver though...too easy to swap the resistor/neon for a glass fuse....as we all did for a laugh back in the good old days. I'll stick with a Fluke.

I guess the other point to make and, I'm sure you will agree, is that when a fault is found in an electrical install, it is very often the case that there are other faults also. This bloke needs to have the whole installation checked out by someone qualified and experienced.

this bloke holds a doctorate in physics as well as a Master's degree in mechanical engineering and was for nearly two decades sole project manager in half a dozen countries building and starting more than half a dozen industrial projects none smaller in value than several hundred million Dollars. and this bloke never worried about a single tripped fuse.

p.s. this bloke also is highly amused when teasing Brits or Aussies concerning their paranoia about electrical danger. he also laughs out

loudly (or feels like crying) when he looks at British Engineering such

as a simple socket.

Crossy is well aware of the above-mentioned and never held it against me.

So Crossy isn't an electrician??I won't hold that against him. I am and an electrical engineer. I am sure Crossy will find this as amusing as I do.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Mudcrab

[Mudcrab]

Ah well if you don't want helpful (hopefully) advice...up to you. Just PM Crossy and save us all the time in replying.

[Mudcrab]

Personally I prefer to have the main breaker open and locked and (if possible) the reassuring bulge of the fuse in my pocket.

Failing that, a neon screwdriver and/or a voltstick on the relevant circuit (verify it's working by testing the incoming supply).

Even then I treat every wire as potentially hot and avoid touching exposed copper, I've been bitten too often.

Apart from the required periodic calibration and possibly monthly confidence checks, does anyone in the sparking industry check his meter other than when it gives an unexpected reading?

Most likely they don't...never implied they did. Just stated standard procedure. can't agree with the neon screwdriver though...too easy to swap the resistor/neon for a glass fuse....as we all did for a laugh back in the good old days. I'll stick with a Fluke.

I guess the other point to make and, I'm sure you will agree, is that when a fault is found in an electrical install, it is very often the case that there are other faults also. This bloke needs to have the whole installation checked out by someone qualified and experienced.

this bloke holds a doctorate in physics as well as a Master's degree in mechanical engineering and was for nearly two decades sole project manager in half a dozen countries building and starting more than half a dozen industrial projects none smaller in value than several hundred million Dollars. and this bloke never worried about a single tripped fuse.

p.s. this bloke also is highly amused when teasing Brits or Aussies concerning their paranoia about electrical danger. he also laughs out

loudly (or feels like crying) when he looks at British Engineering such

as a simple socket.

Crossy is well aware of the above-mentioned and never held it against me.

I'm sure Crossy can speak for himself without your input...assuming you are not also an expert on electrical engineering and it seems you are not .I am. I too have run/still do many million dollar plus electrical/control projects. I do not need to be here but out of curiosity. Whatever,