Will Joining The Asean Stop Foreign Teaching?

Scully · April 9, 2013

While speaking to an American teacher, he told me that once Thailand joins the ASEAN, Thailand will recruit all English teachers internally, i.e Thais. This was third hand news from his head of school.

Personally I don't teach but was thinking of doing so in the near future. Is this just scare mongering or is there some truth in it, will it be a case of only the most qualified foreigners getting a position.

Any replies appreciated.

Scott · April 9, 2013

Probably scaremongering, or a plan by that specific school.

Scully · April 9, 2013

Probably scaremongering, or a plan by that specific school.

As I hoped, personally I don't want to take a course for no reason. I live in the depths of Issan and have been offered a job, however it's not fair on the kids to teach with no experience and would like to do things legitimately.

teacherofwoe · April 9, 2013

Under ASEAN law, skilled workers from other ASEAN nations working in Thailand will be paid the same as, and not more than, their Thai counterparts. Teachers from the Philippines, who currently enjoy a higher salary than Thai teacher, will have to take a significant pay cut to continue working here. This won't affect salaries for NES teachers.

balo · April 9, 2013

Doesnt make sense to me, if the Filipino teachers will earn the same as Thais there is no reason for them to come here, because they earn the same at home.

thunder30101 · April 9, 2013

What is asean law ??? I think you need to re-educate yourself or educate me with where you get this info about teacher pay. The agreements between members of the asean block of countries are not laws but negotiated agreements on trade, tariffs and employment issues to make a large economic block like the EU to help improve se Asia's competitiveness in local and world markets. I dont think it will change the landscape for teachers much if at all. If anything I see the phillipinos and others more interested in taking over the tourism industry (lots of money there), tourism in thailand could def use a change in management. I also see thailand opting out of most of the asean agreement due to its inability to compete in any industry with other asean members.

masuk · April 9, 2013

I went to a small party last night, and while there met a young Thai lady who is a full-time English teacher at a government high school.

We naturally talked shop a lot, but although I spoke slowly and clearly (I think) my Thai partner had to come and interpret many times.

I was somewhat surprised when she told me the students often 'rested their eyes' a lot during lessons, or chatted on their phones!

Sure, I only taught at non-government schools in Indonesia, but surely the local teens wouldn't pull this one too often in class ????

culicine · April 9, 2013

ASEAN has been around 45 years so I guess the OP is referring to the AEC. I also don't see much changing in the local teaching scene. Certainly there is a never-ending supply of Philipino teachers and I don't see that abating unless their salaries are capped at the home level. Wish I earned what I would get teaching in Australia:)

culicine · April 9, 2013

I went to a small party last night, and while there met a young Thai lady who is a full-time English teacher at a government high school.

We naturally talked shop a lot, but although I spoke slowly and clearly (I think) my Thai partner had to come and interpret many times.

I was somewhat surprised when she told me the students often 'rested their eyes' a lot during lessons, or chatted on their phones!

Sure, I only taught at non-government schools in Indonesia, but surely the local teens wouldn't pull this one too often in class ????

Thais don't grow out of it. My wife is skyping me as we speak from the Netherlands. She's sitting in some workshop, but said she's heard it all before:)

aidenai · April 9, 2013

In addition, more Filipino teachers are coming to teach in Thailand and both countries are formulating an agreement for teacher exchange which is crucial for the ASEAN Community as those teachers are

like educational ambassadors who create knowledge-sharing. It is expected that in April or May, 2013, both countries will sign an agreement on teacher exchange.

http://www.en.moe.go.th/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1244:bilateral-discussion-of-thailand-and-the-philippines&catid=1:news&Itemid=42

Scully · April 10, 2013

ASEAN has been around 45 years so I guess the OP is referring to the AEC. I also don't see much changing in the local teaching scene. Certainly there is a never-ending supply of Philipino teachers and I don't see that abating unless their salaries are capped at the home level. Wish I earned what I would get teaching in Australia:)

http://www.thai-senate.com/senate_inter/ASEAN_id.php?main_id=14

Just a little titbit for you, plenty more in newspapers. Or where you just being pedantic

Edited April 10, 2013 by Scully

masuk · April 10, 2013

If this plan really is an 'exchange', the Thai teachers will be in for a shock, as The Philippines is so English-orientated.

Even the most humble fruit seller will chat to you in English. Their TV didn't seem to be filled with sub-titles on films, street signs and notices were almost always in English.

Thailand has a long way to go I'm afraid, but they are certainly willing learners!

nottocus · April 10, 2013

Hopefully it doesn't stop foreigners teaching in Thailand.

What they really need to do is raise salaries and get qualified foreign teachers, not those with only a degree or less (Unless that was a B Ed.)

Edited April 10, 2013 by nottocus

Loaded · April 10, 2013

Hopefully it doesn't stop foreigners teaching in Thailand.

What they really need to do is raise salaries and get qualified foreign teachers, not those with only a degree or less (Unless that was a B Ed.)

Are you suggesting that language teachers in countries other than Thailand require a BEd, Masters or PGCE?

masuk · April 10, 2013

Hopefully it doesn't stop foreigners teaching in Thailand.

What they really need to do is raise salaries and get qualified foreign teachers, not those with only a degree or less (Unless that was a B Ed.)

The degree requirement is rather useless in my opinion, unless they specify that it involves language teaching.

Right now, you could have a degree in bee-keeping and start work here.

When I did my 6 month TEFLA course in Australia, the majority of the class were teachers with a Dip. Ed. They went off to work in many different countries.

Scott · April 10, 2013

I tend to support the idea of people having a degree to teach, however, that is based on my experience in a bilingual program where a subjects are taught in English. By and large, the people with a degree have done better with subjects such as Science and Math. At the top of the Totem Pole are those with a Bachelor's in Education.

As far as teaching English, my experience with non-degreed, TEFL trained teachers has been very positive. Most TEFL teachers can be turned lose in a classroom with little supervision. Most know what they are doing and how to do it. This is especially true of those who have taken their TEFL locally and have a better feel for the Thai education system.

The problem for Thailand is that they don't realize that one size does not fit all.

Yooyung · April 10, 2013

Hopefully it doesn't stop foreigners teaching in Thailand.

What they really need to do is raise salaries and get qualified foreign teachers, not those with only a degree or less (Unless that was a B Ed.)

That is a pie in the sky pipe dream. A person with a E Ed. will not be willing to work for less than...what a minimum of 70,000 + with all the benefits?...and I mean a minimum. I have a bachelor degree now, I worked without one for quite a while and am considering further study at postgraduate level, in something specifically related to teaching. The problem is even if there were a flood of fully qualified teachers, most Thai schools couldn't or wouldn't pay what was due. Thailand is not full of international level schools, there isn't a one size fits all solution. There needs to be a standard set to be sure and I think a degree is a reasonable start, a one month TEFL certificate is useful and should not be sneered at. However, its not really high enough a standard to set, on the other hand wanting everyone to have a minimum of a BA in Education is overkill, which as I have said the Thais wont be willing to pay out for.

richard10365 · April 11, 2013

In the past, Thai English teachers came from Thailand which has a population of approximately 65 million people. They didn't have enough or they weren't good enough so they hired lots of foreigners to teach English. On December 31st, 2015 Thailand, as well as other ASEAN countries, will be able to source labor from a population of 600 million people.

Also, ASEAN does more trade in ASEAN than ASEAN does with the EU and US markets combined. While the west is still important, the west is not as important as it was before. Is there a threat of ASEAN teachers taking teaching jobs from westerners in Thailand? I think so.

thunder30101 · April 11, 2013

^ Please quote your where you get your numbers on how asean does more trade in the asean block (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_the_Association_of_Southeast_Asian_Nations) as compared to western countries such as the EU. I think you are just bashing western economies. This might help you for thailands stats http://www.tradingeconomics.com/thailand/exports Thailands main exports partners are the EU,USA,Japan and China

Edited April 11, 2013 by thunder30101

richard10365 · April 13, 2013

^ Please quote your where you get your numbers on how asean does more trade in the asean block (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_states_of_the_Association_of_Southeast_Asian_Nations) as compared to western countries such as the EU. I think you are just bashing western economies. This might help you for thailands stats http://www.tradingeconomics.com/thailand/exports Thailands main exports partners are the EU,USA,Japan and China

As requested.

http://www.asean.org/images/2013/resources/statistics/external_trade/table20.pdf

culicine · April 13, 2013

In the past, Thai English teachers came from Thailand which has a population of approximately 65 million people. They didn't have enough or they weren't good enough so they hired lots of foreigners to teach English. On December 31st, 2015 Thailand, as well as other ASEAN countries, will be able to source labor from a population of 600 million people.

Also, ASEAN does more trade in ASEAN than ASEAN does with the EU and US markets combined. While the west is still important, the west is not as important as it was before. Is there a threat of ASEAN teachers taking teaching jobs from westerners in Thailand? I think so.

Thailand has always been able to source teachers from other ASEAN countries. There are a LOT of Philipino teachers in my school. After 11 years I'm one of the few native speakers left - this is because we have Philipino management. My opinion is that parents are tolerant of non-native speakers teaching their kids, rather than accepting of it. They realise that nativespeakers are hard to come by (or it's that schools don't want to pay what is necessary to attract fully qualified, experienced, native speakers) and have to do with what they can get. It's obvious many schools, especially private ones, are trying to save a baht left right and centre, so this is what we have.

Loaded · April 13, 2013

If I were learning French in my home country, I would want a teacher from France. I would accept a French Canadian. I would be reluctant to accept someone from my own country whose second language is French. I wouldn't happily accept an Algerian even though that country was colonized by France and many Algerians still speak French fluently. However, if there was absolutely no alternative because of availability and cost, I would have to reluctantly accept the Algerian.

I believe, this is the way many Thais view native-speaking, Thai and Filipino English teachers.

culicine · April 14, 2013

If I were learning French in my home country, I would want a teacher from France. I would accept a French Canadian. I would be reluctant to accept someone from my own country whose second language is French. I wouldn't happily accept an Algerian even though that country was colonized by France and many Algerians still speak French fluently. However, if there was absolutely no alternative because of availability and cost, I would have to reluctantly accept the Algerian.

I believe, this is the way many Thais view native-speaking, Thai and Filipino English teachers.

True. What I found is that my school still charges the same fees 10 years later, even though the mix of teachers has changed such that the school is now saving a lot of money on salaries. We have some good non-native speakers who have been with us a long time, but generally speaking, they should teach the lower grades, not upper high school. In the upper grades we teach a lot on non-textbook english such as idioms, and need to focus on entrance exams such as IELTS, TOEFL, SAT, etc, which is more difficult for the non-native speakers who are unfamiliar with these exams. Even then, native speakers need to be well versed with the content of these exams also. I hope next year our grade 11 exam will be more challenging. Even my P3 son got 9/10 on one section of that exam.

NeverSure · April 14, 2013

Hopefully it doesn't stop foreigners teaching in Thailand.

What they really need to do is raise salaries and get qualified foreign teachers, not those with only a degree or less (Unless that was a B Ed.)

That is a pie in the sky pipe dream. A person with a E Ed. will not be willing to work for less than...what a minimum of 70,000 + with all the benefits?...and I mean a minimum. I have a bachelor degree now, I worked without one for quite a while and am considering further study at postgraduate level, in something specifically related to teaching. The problem is even if there were a flood of fully qualified teachers, most Thai schools couldn't or wouldn't pay what was due. Thailand is not full of international level schools, there isn't a one size fits all solution. There needs to be a standard set to be sure and I think a degree is a reasonable start, a one month TEFL certificate is useful and should not be sneered at. However, its not really high enough a standard to set, on the other hand wanting everyone to have a minimum of a BA in Education is overkill, which as I have said the Thais wont be willing to pay out for.

Please, I always enjoy your posts and I have the highest respect for you so please don't take offense. I'm not disagreeing with you.

I am from the US. English was always my favorite subject, except for music. During Freshman Week at college, the school gave us all an 'English Placement Exam'. That was to determine if a new college student needed remedial English, the normal English class, or perhaps should go into an advanced class.

There were 1,200 new freshmen. The top four scores out of the 1,200 entitled the winners to get credit for three terms, or nine hours of English credit under the 'challenge' rules. One could challenge any course in the school, take the final exam, and if the score was high enough get credit for the class. As you might expect, they charged full tuition for it though. The nine hours is considered a full year.

I was one of the four. The four of us stood up in front of the entire student body for recognition. I opted for a creative writing class which was normally open only to seniors with an English major.

I don't have a degree in English or a TEFL or anything else, but I do choke on the poor writing of some of the English teachers here. As a hobby, I taught advanced piano for about 20 years and it isn't as if I didn't develop some clue as to how to get a complicated concept across to someone. I experienced how I learned best when taught, and how my students learned best. Just please hear me on this: Reading and writing and playing serious piano music is far, far more intricate than English. The few who can do it correctly and well should be proof enough of that.

Thank you for indulging me and I'll get to my point. I have helped a lot of Thais with English. I have found that even college graduate Thais who studied a lot of English can often read and write it well, but they can't speak it. They don't know how it sounds because their teacher was another Thai, or some other alternative rather than an NES.

I would like to see a native English speaker working hard with every Thai child. The framed papers aren't as important as the love of teaching and the caring for the child. All over the world international trade is and will be done in English, and if I could teach just one bright Thai child to read, write, comprehend and speak understandable English, it would be worth the effort even if my pay was nothing.

I am going to teach English in a rural village school, and if I lose my retirement visa and find myself at the airport over it, so be it. A child is too valuable to waste.

Edited April 14, 2013 by NeverSure

lostinisaan · April 14, 2013

Under ASEAN law, skilled workers from other ASEAN nations working in Thailand will be paid the same as, and not more than, their Thai counterparts. Teachers from the Philippines, who currently enjoy a higher salary than Thai teacher, will have to take a significant pay cut to continue working here. This won't affect salaries for NES teachers.

Will be very interesting for the Filipinos, who actually "dislike" their white colleagues for making more money. This isn't a racist comment, just a fact.

A German trash worker makes around 100,000 baht a month. A subject teacher around 160,000 baht with all the governmental benefits.

Foreigners from other countries than Asia people usually come to Thailand and stay here because they fell in love with the country, while others are only in for the money.

Please see: .A basic teacher in the Philippines earns p 5,000 – 18,000 per month 60 pesos (p60) = USD$1.38 approx.

http://www.thelongestwayhome.com/blog/philippines-journal/how-much-does-a-person-from-the-philippines-earn/

I don't think that native English speakers and those with a lot of teaching experience will be replaced. The parents want to see white faces, even at the gate....

Edited April 14, 2013 by lostinisaan

Ijustwannateach · April 14, 2013

Gosh but I bet the German wishes the cost of living in Germany were lower... and honestly, blue collar workers of various types still make good money - just ask real plumbers in first world countries, if you can find 'em. And good on 'em.

I very much doubt that non-NES teachers will find themselves edged out by those from the countries in the new 'zone', unless they are very borderline indeed.

As far as educational requirements, Thailand has at one and the same time (depending on exactly which rules and exceptions you are talking about) BOTH the most extremely demanding (if you are a teacher to whom the new TCT regulations somehow apply) *and* the most lax (if you are one of those completely off-the-books types who've been here for years that way) qualification requirements for teaching languages of any country I know.

Phronesis · April 22, 2013

AEC is the same as Y2K.

Hyped rhetoric that will arrive and NOTHING will change...

Scott · April 23, 2013

Off-topic post and reply deleted.

Rolo Tomazi · April 26, 2013

I believe the schools know that if they want their kids to learn any decent English they need foreign teachers. They also know that they can't ask high fees for English Programs when they offer Philippinos who work for less money. Parents are not all stupid!

I'd guess that Thais will realize that they are on the bottom of the list when it comes to English speaking ability and hire MORE foreign teachers.

But that would be a logical conclusion and thus won't happen. :-)

lovelaos · April 26, 2013

I tend to support the idea of people having a degree to teach, however, that is based on my experience in a bilingual program where a subjects are taught in English. By and large, the people with a degree have done better with subjects such as Science and Math. At the top of the Totem Pole are those with a Bachelor's in Education.

As far as teaching English, my experience with non-degreed, TEFL trained teachers has been very positive. Most TEFL teachers can be turned lose in a classroom with little supervision. Most know what they are doing and how to do it. This is especially true of those who have taken their TEFL locally and have a better feel for the Thai education system.

The problem for Thailand is that they don't realize that one size does not fit all.

Does having a degree give one the ability to know the difference between lose and loose?

Sign In

Will Joining The Asean Stop Foreign Teaching?

Recommended Posts

Create an account or sign in to comment

Create an account

Sign in

Recently Browsing 0 members

Announcements

Topics

Latest posts...

Popular in The Pub

ASEANNOW

MORE INFO

POPULAR AREAS

CONTACT US