Permanent Residence - Married To A Thai But Unemployed

[Khelang Velo]

I've read the requirements and it gives the impression that the qualifications are quite straightforward. However, I'm hearing stories of the added unwritten things like 'Community involvement' and paying tax to the Thai government. I thought they were referring to citizenship or qualifying by another route and perhaps they were confused, but you never know.

I'd be interested to hear from those who've applied, whether successful or not as to their feelings.

As far as I see it's - Married to a Thai, 3 year continuous Non Imm extensions, ability to speak Thai, lots of documents and a limit of 100 per country.

I'm marrried to a Thai, got 2 married visa extensions, have pensions and I'm hoping the language will come in time but the real problem I see is that I'm from the UK.

[lopburi3]

Country is not an issue - there are never that many wanting it. You are graded in many areas. There is a very long thread on PR that you might want to read - search or us the pinned items at top to find. But if married I would be looking at citizenship rather than PR if from the UK (with no dual nationality issues). But without employment there is not much chance of anything.

[Arkady]

Lopburi is right. The quota of 100 per nationality was designed to keep out the Chinese in the early 50s when thousands were immigrating every year. As far as I know no farang nationality has ever come close to it in any given year. The Chinese still hit it regularly and the Indians have done so once or twice, I believe.

Even though there is a PR category for supporting or being supported by Thai dependents, when you look closely at it you will find that the required documents include things like a copy of your work permit and 3 calendar years of audited tax receipts relating to a salary earned in Thailand. The only advantage you get from this category I think is that you can combine your income with your Thai wife's to meet the minimum requirement. On the other hand, if you need to do this to scrape through, they are not going to be very impressed by the amount of tax you are contributing to the Thai coffers. I think this category is only there to make it appear that PR is available on humanitarian grounds but care is taken to see that this doesn't actually happen. Most people would do better to apply under the business quota. Yes, they do want to see some form of contribution to Thai society and may even ask you about this in the panel interview (in Thai) you have to attend these days. With a Thai wife you can also apply for citizenship but you also need a work permit and 3 years' salary tax receipts. The documentation is a bit easier than PR but the waiting time may be longer.

Thailand remains a very chauvinistic country which may well be why you like living in the LoS. The downside is that foreign males married to Thais don't have the same rights as foreign females married to Thais who can apply for citizenship without having a job, based on their husband earning a token income. The 2008 Nationality Act went a long way to redress the balance because it allowed foreign males with Thai wives exemption from the requirement to have PR before applying for citizenship but a job is still required. Rome wasn't built in a day.

[dighambara]

Country is not an issue - there are never that many wanting it. You are graded in many areas. There is a very long thread on PR that you might want to read - search or us the pinned items at top to find. But if married I would be looking at citizenship rather than PR if from the UK (with no dual nationality issues). But without employment there is not much chance of anything.

HMMM - I have heard it both ways - long line and no line for Residency... What did you mean by 'items pinned at top'..??

Lopburi is right. The quota of 100 per nationality was designed to keep out the Chinese in the early 50s when thousands were immigrating every year. As far as I know no farang nationality has ever come close to it in any given year. The Chinese still hit it regularly and the Indians have done so once or twice, I believe.

Even though there is a PR category for supporting or being supported by Thai dependents, when you look closely at it you will find that the required documents include things like a copy of your work permit and 3 calendar years of audited tax receipts relating to a salary earned in Thailand. The only advantage you get from this category I think is that you can combine your income with your Thai wife's to meet the minimum requirement. On the other hand, if you need to do this to scrape through, they are not going to be very impressed by the amount of tax you are contributing to the Thai coffers. I think this category is only there to make it appear that PR is available on humanitarian grounds but care is taken to see that this doesn't actually happen. Most people would do better to apply under the business quota. Yes, they do want to see some form of contribution to Thai society and may even ask you about this in the panel interview (in Thai) you have to attend these days. With a Thai wife you can also apply for citizenship but you also need a work permit and 3 years' salary tax receipts. The documentation is a bit easier than PR but the waiting time may be longer.

Thailand remains a very chauvinistic country which may well be why you like living in the LoS. The downside is that foreign males married to Thais don't have the same rights as foreign females married to Thais who can apply for citizenship without having a job, based on their husband earning a token income. The 2008 Nationality Act went a long way to redress the balance because it allowed foreign males with Thai wives exemption from the requirement to have PR before applying for citizenship but a job is still required. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Much more reasonable response. I personally know of 4 foreign women who received residency as soon as their husband requested it; 2 Lao, I Philippina, I American. At the time, they spoke no Thai.

My difficulty with all this is that I haven't worked in a dozen years and have been here for 10. My Thai is terrible, because I do not hear the 'tones' - tinnitus doesn't help. Reading Thai helps, but 'key mah' is undecipherable when spoken...

So, although I wish for residency, I have never paid taxes here. Yep, bought farms & land for the family, condos, houses, cars, etc., but no taxes...

Like most 'retired' foreigners, I easily spend 5 times the money of any tourist, yet, do not know of a ministry for foreign retirees or of any method that accounts for my contributions, in lieu of taxes.

[Mario2008]

Under : http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/523810-important-visa-information/

You can find links to important information, including about PR.

For PR you can read the thread here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/74654-cameratas-guide-to-the-permanent-residence-process/unread/

[Arkady]

Much more reasonable response. I personally know of 4 foreign women who received residency as soon as their husband requested it; 2 Lao, I Philippina, I American. At the time, they spoke no Thai.

My difficulty with all this is that I haven't worked in a dozen years and have been here for 10. My Thai is terrible, because I do not hear the 'tones' - tinnitus doesn't help. Reading Thai helps, but 'key mah' is undecipherable when spoken...

So, although I wish for residency, I have never paid taxes here. Yep, bought farms & land for the family, condos, houses, cars, etc., but no taxes...

Like most 'retired' foreigners, I easily spend 5 times the money of any tourist, yet, do not know of a ministry for foreign retirees or of any method that accounts for my contributions, in lieu of taxes.

As you say, there is no official recognition of foreign retirees, beyond the one year extensions based on retirement and marriage but those classify the holders as temporary residents like long-term tourists and conditions for the extensions can be changed without notice. The 5 year visas for Thaksin's Elite Card holders is the closest they have ever come to recognising a long stay category short of PR but that was not really intended for people living in Thailand.

There is a real fear of the large number foreign male retirees in Thailand and officials are keen not to make it too easy for them to claim special rights by virtue of being married to a Thai woman, since they don't particularly respect their own countrywomen or trust their judgement. The original draft of the 2008 Nationality Act was intended to put foreign males married to Thais on a par with their foreign female counterparts and allow them to apply for citizenship on the same basis, i.e. on the basis of a token income of B15k a month earned by the Thai spouse which can be easily fabricated. This radical idea was shot down by the Interior Ministry on grounds of national security, citing the need to preserve the Thainess of Thailand which is presumably under threat from foreign retirees with Thai families. Foreign males with Thai wives still have to apply for naturalisation on the basis of their own job and income in Thailand but do now at long last get the important exemption from the PR and singing requirements. However, it is still not a level gender playing field and is unlikely to be for a generation or so, while the same bureaucratic prejudices prevail.

Another example of this was a bill to amend the Land Code in 1999 to allow foreigners with Thai spouses to buy up to a rai of residential land as a way to help revive the collapsed property market at the time. This was witheringly shot down in Parliament and replaced with a watered down version that applied to all foreigners requiring rare types of investments of B40m that are to source, excluding the land, and a raft of other conditions that make it practically impossible to fulfill in time to purchase a plot of land on the open market. Needless to say there are no known cases of anyone ever availing themselves of this law.