Tot Satellite Internet

[gvpraag]

I use TOT Satellite (1024/512). In the last couple of month the quality becomes more and more bad. Speedtests sometimes take 5 minutes but give a result of 1024 download speed. It turns out that ADSL Thailand's speedtest gives you the maximim speed and not the average speed during the test. What happens is that the red ball moves extremely slow from right to left (giving a speed of i.e. 200) and about halfway the ball jumps suddenly to the left end and you see the required speed of 1024. After that the upload test is even slower and ends up in almost no speed (10 instead of 512).

The worst thing however is that regularly the internet connection dies, together with the indicator lights on my router. It become live again after you give a couple of returns, but i.e. using internet banking this can result in douple payments of bills and such.

During a download process however you have no possiblity to use the enter key, so the download is aborted and you can start all over again. Since two month I have to drive 40kms to Phitsanulok to download my Dutch newspaper in a coffeeshop; at home it is not possible.

Downloading things (like a flash player update or updates for my internet security software) are almost not possible. After trying several times I'm sometimes lucky.

Some downloads are controlled by programs thet keep trying to get a connection (Internet Download Manager or Bittorrent programs). Especially with IDM one can follow exactly what happens. The speed suddenly drops to zero and then IDM keeps kicking and kicking and gets things running again. "Normal" download programs will abort and give messages like "server cannot be reached" or such.

For all this rubbish I pay 2600 bath a month plus tax.

There is a number in Bangkok (02 575 5585) that I am not supposed to have and there is the technical staff for IPSTAR. The only thing however that they are capable of is giving you a restart so temporary you are more in the top of the messages priority list. It helps for a short while and for me you can switch the modem of and on with the same result.

To other users of TOT Satellite: please write down this number and call them directly in case of problems.

Rwo weeks ago I managed to have a technician from Bangrakam in the house and saw with his own eyes what is happening. Of cource they cannot do anything locally because the problem is in the server(s). He passed the problem to his manager and after two weeks the message is that maybe next week they are going to talk about the problem.

A fixed IP-address could possibly be a solution but when I suggest that they say: "Oh you want a fixed IP-address? that cost you 200 bath more".

My answer that I finally like to get what I am paying for and that whatever costs they may have to forfill TOT's contractual obligations is not my problem.

Question: ARE THEIR USERS OF TOT SATELLITE THAT HAVE SIMILAR PROBLEMS??????

[Totster]

I dumped it years back, you will get zero satisfaction and no one will care.. no point working yourself up about it.

totster

[Thaddeus]

Agree completely with Totster.

Ipstar is only a viable option if there are no other options.

[GooEng]

^^ what they said

TOT satellite for two years at my last house which was totally off the landline grid, and it was completely inconsistent - ranging from crap to absolutely useless and despite several visits for diagnosis, tweaks and repositions of the dish it never got any better - the slightest hint of rain and it stopped altogether.

i dunno where you are, but look into AIS Airnet as an alternative. It's an expanding service offering hi-speed wifi style internet connection and locals where i live who already have it swear by it - ours is getting hooked up this week.

Edited April 11, 2013 by GooEng

[Cloggie]

Used it at my work before - just one word USELESS.

[Satcommlee]

You are using things like Internet Download Manager and Bittorrent, and you are wondering why you are having problems?

The biggest problem with low-end satellite connections like this are the user's themselves. (I don't mean this in a derogatory sense)

The round trip delay in satellite connection (typ. 580-600 ms) makes it very difficult for your operating system to manage congestion issues, unlike terrestrial connections.

You need to keep on top of what your PC's are trying to do in the background, while you are trying to use the net you PC may be trying to download a 200 MB windows update but the round trip delay being larger than the OS TCP window size just totally screws things up and your OS can't prioritise BW properly.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Satcommlee

[Dork]

You are using things like Internet Download Manager and Bittorrent, and you are wondering why you are having problems?

The biggest problem with low-end satellite connections like this are the user's themselves. (I don't mean this in a derogatory sense)

The round trip delay in satellite connection (typ. 580-600 ms) makes it very difficult for your operating system to manage congestion issues, unlike terrestrial connections.

You need to keep on top of what your PC's are trying to do in the background, while you are trying to use the net you PC may be trying to download a 200 MB windows update but the round trip delay being larger than the OS TCP window size just totally screws things up and your OS can't prioritise BW properly.

Reminds me of the old days stuck in some remote place desperately trying to send one tiny but important email over a dodgy GPRS connection. After several hours I would swear to myself that as soon as I got back to civilization I would hunt down and torture all executives from Adobe, Sun etc.

[gvpraag]

You are using things like Internet Download Manager and Bittorrent, and you are wondering why you are having problems?

"Normal" downloads just send data over a connection and do not worry what is happening at the other end. Not much more than simple sends and receives and waiting for the answer. No answer: sorry don't know what to do and abort. Restart: never heard about that.

Downloading i.e. Adobe Flash player updates works that way among with most (and often necessary) software downloads. Downloads that you can redirect via IDM (internet download manager) are faster and much more (if not totally) reliable. I bought a copy and I never regretted it. The only problem is that they do not have a Mac OSX version, so I only can use it on my windows PC.

About bittorrent: You can argue about the fact wheter this type of downloading is lawfull or not, but you cannot argue about the quality of the download process itself. Programs like 'Bittorrent', "Vuze" and such are technically almost perfect and very, very reliable.

Both programs (IDM and Bittorrent) do not GIVE me the problems, but are the only programs dat give me data I want to download without me having to start 10 times all over again.

In case you don't believe me: Look at "Internetdownloadmanager.com', download a trial version and see for yourself.

[gvpraag]

The biggest problem with low-end satellite connections like this are the user's themselves. (I don't mean this in a derogatory sense)

The round trip delay in satellite connection (typ. 580-600 ms) makes it very difficult for your operating system to manage congestion issues, unlike terrestrial connections.

The latency in my case is in most of the times far more than 1000ms.

I am a software engineer since 1960 (no typing error: 53 years ago). I was heavily involved in designing and developing database management systems, operating systems and later data communications handlers.

I come from the dark ages where 960 baud was a very fast connection over a fixed line and we had to use every trick in the book to get some data across. I think I have knowledge and experience enough to work with slow internet, but even with 53 years of experience I cannot do anything when the connection drops.

[gvpraag]

^^ what they said

TOT satellite for two years at my last house which was totally off the landline grid, and it was completely inconsistent - ranging from crap to absolutely useless and despite several visits for diagnosis, tweaks and repositions of the dish it never got any better - the slightest hint of rain and it stopped altogether.

i dunno where you are, but look into AIS Airnet as an alternative. It's an expanding service offering hi-speed wifi style internet connection and locals where i live who already have it swear by it - ours is getting hooked up this week.

Thank you for the suggestion. After Songkran I will look into it, but please keep me informed about your experiences.

I live in the Phitsanulok province in the bush-bush behind Bangrakam.

[Totster]

He wasn't saying Bittorent was bad, but you have to make sure it is only downloading when you are not browsing as this will severely affect your experience.

Anyway, the point is moot.. it almost sounds like you are sticking up for your connection, the truth is that it will NEVER get better, TOT will not listen to your complaints, or care. You either have to put up with it or find a better solution.. take this advice from people who have been in exactly the same situation as you. Whether you have 53 years experience does not count for a thing.

totster

[Satcommlee]

The problem lies with the method most commonly used for downloading and that is TCP/IP.

It simply was never designed to work with high latency between hops, it was never imagined in it's conception that there would be a "virtual wire" (Satellite link) effectively 70'000 KM long.

When the server starts sending data, it relies on signals back telling it how the transmission is coming along and whether to increase speed or decrease speed etc.. but the system is not very patient, if it does not hear back within a certain time (TCP Window Size) then it will assume there is congestion and adjust it's speed. Its actually a lot more complicated than I've made out but i've put it in laymans terms.

The end result is a lot of Overhead (Wasted data), Internet Download Managers may seem to run faster because of the multiple connections, this only serves to increase the Overhead (Wasted data) and further throttle the usefulness of the link.

There is another protocol (UDP) as used by speedtest.net and streaming Video for example that is unaffected by this latency issue, this explains why on a good day you may actually think you are getting a good download speed when you do these flash based tests.

There is a way to speed up your satellite link and that is through the use of something called TCP acceleration, where a server on the Public Internet side works in conjunction with a client application on your PC which spoofs the TCP commands thus overcoming the problem the 600ms satellite delay introduces to the link.

I am not sure of any commercial TCP acceleration services available in SE Asia, but I will ask a Thai colleague on Monday.

It would be money well spent and would improve your link enormously..

Without TCP acceleration, you could have a 100 Mbits/100 Mbits satellite link and still only get 300 Kbps on a TCP single download.

[Dork]

The problem lies with the method most commonly used for downloading and that is TCP/IP.

It simply was never designed to work with high latency between hops, it was never imagined in it's conception that there would be a "virtual wire" (Satellite link) effectively 70'000 KM long.

When the server starts sending data, it relies on signals back telling it how the transmission is coming along and whether to increase speed or decrease speed etc.. but the system is not very patient, if it does not hear back within a certain time (TCP Window Size) then it will assume there is congestion and adjust it's speed. Its actually a lot more complicated than I've made out but i've put it in laymans terms.

The end result is a lot of Overhead (Wasted data), Internet Download Managers may seem to run faster because of the multiple connections, this only serves to increase the Overhead (Wasted data) and further throttle the usefulness of the link.

There is another protocol (UDP) as used by speedtest.net and streaming Video for example that is unaffected by this latency issue, this explains why on a good day you may actually think you are getting a good download speed when you do these flash based tests.

There is a way to speed up your satellite link and that is through the use of something called TCP acceleration, where a server on the Public Internet side works in conjunction with a client application on your PC which spoofs the TCP commands thus overcoming the problem the 600ms satellite delay introduces to the link.

I am not sure of any commercial TCP acceleration services available in SE Asia, but I will ask a Thai colleague on Monday.

It would be money well spent and would improve your link enormously..

Without TCP acceleration, you could have a 100 Mbits/100 Mbits satellite link and still only get 300 Kbps on a TCP single download.

Great explanation.

[muratremix]

Considering TOT IPStar satellite internet is expensive, why not invest in 3G wherever you live? Cat 3G (True-H) has a very good coverage and if you don't get signal in your area then find where is the nearest base station. There are amplifiers and big directional 3G antennas (that works on 850 mhz band) which should work on your location.

[Satcommlee]

Considering TOT IPStar satellite internet is expensive, why not invest in 3G wherever you live? Cat 3G (True-H) has a very good coverage and if you don't get signal in your area then find where is the nearest base station. There are amplifiers and big directional 3G antennas (that works on 850 mhz band) which should work on your location.

Although technically illegal in most countries, this is by far the best solution in my opinion.. check out TOT website they have a google map showing base station locations.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[gvpraag]

The problem lies with the method most commonly used for downloading and that is TCP/IP.

It simply was never designed to work with high latency between hops, it was never imagined in it's conception that there would be a "virtual wire" (Satellite link) effectively 70'000 KM long.

When the server starts sending data, it relies on signals back telling it how the transmission is coming along and whether to increase speed or decrease speed etc.. but the system is not very patient, if it does not hear back within a certain time (TCP Window Size) then it will assume there is congestion and adjust it's speed. Its actually a lot more complicated than I've made out but i've put it in laymans terms.

The end result is a lot of Overhead (Wasted data), Internet Download Managers may seem to run faster because of the multiple connections, this only serves to increase the Overhead (Wasted data) and further throttle the usefulness of the link.

There is another protocol (UDP) as used by speedtest.net and streaming Video for example that is unaffected by this latency issue, this explains why on a good day you may actually think you are getting a good download speed when you do these flash based tests.

There is a way to speed up your satellite link and that is through the use of something called TCP acceleration, where a server on the Public Internet side works in conjunction with a client application on your PC which spoofs the TCP commands thus overcoming the problem the 600ms satellite delay introduces to the link.

I am not sure of any commercial TCP acceleration services available in SE Asia, but I will ask a Thai colleague on Monday.

It would be money well spent and would improve your link enormously..

Without TCP acceleration, you could have a 100 Mbits/100 Mbits satellite link and still only get 300 Kbps on a TCP single download.

Very good post and you are quite correct.

I also get the feeling that I did not express myself 100% correct from the beginning. But please excuse me; I'm Dutch.

What I meant is that I realize the general problems when using Satellite Internet and I also realize that TOT is far from service minded. But up to now I could more or less live with it. THE LAST COUPLE OF MONTH however things get really worse and I cannot even download my Dutch newspaper anymore. I see that the people who reacted stopped IPSTAR already months ago, so they cannot have the same experience.

I am not eager for speed. A download that takes half an hour more is no problem at all. Somewhere I read a definition of 'realtime' that it means you get the information at the time you need it. For me that is OK; I'm retired now.

The reason however why I use IDM is the inbuild reconnection attempt and the restart and resume of aborted downloads. Most downloading I do in the night while I am sleeping, so downloads are not disturbed by any web surfing.

About the 3G: I have a BigPond 3G router that is connected to a simple antenna not more than about 4 meters from the ground. That works fine. True describes this as 'unlimited internet', but there is a data limit of 5G after that your speed is limited to 384Kb. When I take it easy I comsume that in one week, so the thing will cost me more than 4000 bath a month when I use 4 simcards. That is why I keep trying with IPSTAR; slower is no problem my computers will work in the night as well. For a moment I hoped that AIS aircard (as someone else suggested) was someting new and different, but it is no more than a 3G USB-modem.

About ADSL: TOT promises already a long time that we soon will have wireless ADSL in our village. I stopped asking about it.

[muratremix]

Considering TOT IPStar satellite internet is expensive, why not invest in 3G wherever you live? Cat 3G (True-H) has a very good coverage and if you don't get signal in your area then find where is the nearest base station. There are amplifiers and big directional 3G antennas (that works on 850 mhz band) which should work on your location.

Although technically illegal in most countries, this is by far the best solution in my opinion.. check out TOT website they have a google map showing base station locations.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

TOT 3G coverage is limited due to 2100 mhz band (5km diameter coverage per base station), Cat 3G coverage is far better and on 850 mhz band (15km diameter coverage around base station).

[muratremix]

If you find enough people to signup for TOT ADSL / Wireless ADSL in your village and if these people agree to pay some money upfront for equipment (5-10K thb), they do bring it. Your chances increase if there is a school in your village.

3G can never be replacement for constant downloading but atleast it provides better web browsing experience and ability to talk via VOIP / Skype. If you also have access to TOT 3G base station via antenna, you may find unlimited TOT 3G package for 1490 baht / month which has a 2Mbit unlimited speed.

[gvpraag]

If you find enough people to signup for TOT ADSL / Wireless ADSL in your village and if these people agree to pay some money upfront for equipment (5-10K thb), they do bring it. Your chances increase if there is a school in your village.

3G can never be replacement for constant downloading but atleast it provides better web browsing experience and ability to talk via VOIP / Skype. If you also have access to TOT 3G base station via antenna, you may find unlimited TOT 3G package for 1490 baht / month which has a 2Mbit unlimited speed.

We have enough people and I am quite willing to pay for all equipment myself. I will save more than 2000 bath a month so I get my money back very soon. Only the footbal-field lies between my house and the school. I even offered TOT a small piece of land where they can put down their equipment. Although I'm sometimes boiling inside I am always friendly and correct towards the TOT people, so that is not the problem either.

Since one year ago they promise action within three months.................

Thanks for the tip about the TOT 3G. I'll buy a (test) simcard and check if I have access.

[muratremix]

If there is internet in school and if you can bribe the right person you can also carry internet to your home via some wireless network setup and offer to pay them some money every month. I'm sure they won't say no to extra tea money, especially school manager

[scorecard]

Used it about 3 years back in Pattaya.

Lots of slow speed / no speed problems, but the final problem:

1. Cancelling the service (tenant moved out of my house) which took numerous calls to achieve, plus more and more calls to TOT to cancel, giving the dates / times & names of TOT employees I had spoken to previously insisting on cancellation of the service (the 12 months contract had expired and no renewal).

2. Getting TOT to take the equipment away.

[chmod777]

As someone who was stuck with IPSTAR for YEARS with no alternatives, I know how frustrating it is. Could be your modem is going bad...

1. Satellite connection dropping (light goes out on modem): If this is happening more often than in the past, make sure the tech adjusts your dish, replaces your modem, or upgrades your modem firmware. I had all three done over the years, the final firmware upgrade actually gave me a more stable connection.

2. Satellite connection OK but can't reach internet: This is due to the convoluted and fragile routing through the TOT downlink site in Bangkok. Try a trace route back to your newspaper's IP address when things are "working" and see if it doesn't make you want to throw up. When the internet is unreachable but the satellite is connected, try the same trace route and get the IP address of the last server it can reach before it gives up. Call the phone number you have in Bangkok and keep repeating that IP address to them until they recognize it or find someone that does. I had to do that several times, then they would reboot the offending server or whatever rube goldberg device that is failing.

Good luck...

Edited April 15, 2013 by chmod777

[gvpraag]

As someone who was stuck with IPSTAR for YEARS with no alternatives, I know how frustrating it is. Could be your modem is going bad...

1. Satellite connection dropping (light goes out on modem): If this is happening more often than in the past, make sure the tech adjusts your dish, replaces your modem, or upgrades your modem firmware. I had all three done over the years, the final firmware upgrade actually gave me a more stable connection.

2. Satellite connection OK but can't reach internet: This is due to the convoluted and fragile routing through the TOT downlink site in Bangkok. Try a trace route back to your newspaper's IP address when things are "working" and see if it doesn't make you want to throw up. When the internet is unreachable but the satellite is connected, try the same trace route and get the IP address of the last server it can reach before it gives up. Call the phone number you have in Bangkok and keep repeating that IP address to them until they recognize it or find someone that does. I had to do that several times, then they would reboot the offending server or whatever rube goldberg device that is failing.

Good luck...

Technically everything has been checked three weeks ago, but that gave no solution. Trace route I performed several times, but I did not realize that they had the possibllity to reboot servers and such. Thanks for the tip mr Unix !!!