Do You Consider Bitcoin To Be A Serious Hedging Option?

[RogueLeader]

I know that many of us here - by design or necessity - tend to hold wealth in various forms and currencies. Recently, due to the strength of the baht, the instability of the $USD and the £GBP combined with the high price of gold and the disruptions in the Eurozone due to troubles in Cyprus and other non-Eurozone nations, people have been looking to alternative was of storing and developing value.

Has anyone considered BitCoin, or any other electronic currency, as a means of hedging against fiat currency instability?

Suspected multi-million dollar Bitcoin pyramid scheme shuts down, investors revolt

"Pirateat40" Makes Off $5.6M USD in BitCoins From Pyramid Scheme

[BuffaloRescue]

Yes and decided against. May just buy some for "fun"

[RogueLeader]

I'd probably leave it for a few days if I were you. They're extremely volatile at present.

[POMPOUI]

Yes they are. I bought them at 262 and now they worth 125...

But I dont regret buy them.

If they go down to 40 I will buy more.

Im sure that is the future. As long as dont become ilegal.

[BuffaloRescue]

Im pretty sure they will become illegal in the US. But not overnight. Dont buy any now.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

Of all the <deleted> in the world Bitcoin is surely the most senseless.

[mccw]

I prefer something I can touch , ie gold, silver, property.

[ITGabs]

just for be informative http://gizmodo.com/5994229/this-video-explains-everything-you-need-to-know-about-bitcoin-in-three-minutes

right now bitcoins are pretty high but sure they will low again.

I don't know so much about the coin market but from the IT side for me is impossible to look at this seriously "NN" created the protocol and the code and unless behind is a big organization I guess this will be illegal in many countries, as a black market, tax issues and stuff like that.

But with the coins where the same hundreds ago.

"Don Francisco" sponsored some websystem with a similar virtual coins but I didn't find nothing about, but sure this is not the first or the last attempt to create virtual money

[XINLOI]

Why would anyone purchase something that exists in a place you cannot touch and has no real value. Try to convert those bit coins to real money. Sorry just another scam for the dreamers, to give away what little they have..........

[lannarebirth]

Of all the <deleted> in the world Bitcoin is surely the most senseless.

It's on the list for sure Right up there with investments in Beanie Babies.

[khunJeroen]

Ofcourse, but you need to understand what it is and how it works.

[sustento]

[Naam]

Of all the <deleted> in the world Bitcoin is surely the most senseless.

BINGO!

[ExpatJ]

Walk into a casino- place a bet on black; that is a more secure place for your money than bitcoins right now :-)

[mccw]

Short answer-

No

[55Jay]

Bitcoins. What a crock. Anyone with any sense knows our paper currency has REAL value because, well, because.... ok, forget that... My parents taught me the value of a dollar and they would never lie to me. Well, except for that Jesus thing. The easter bunny and this fairy that would leave shiny coins under my pillow in the middle of the night for my old teeth.

In fact, it's so good, you don't even have to have it in your hand. My digits on the "internet" is worth more than your silly, made up, electronic "Bitcoins". Pffft, HA! Whoever dreamt that scam up is bloody genius.

When the US dollar crashes, commodities and physical assets will again be king, including soft rocks dug out of the earth, at least for a while.

1 year marriage extensions backed by 3 gold coins per annum - or - no less than 5 chickens per month.

Now where's the # for that solar power installation guy.....

[Phil Conners]

I think some people might misunderstand the purpose of Bitcoins. It isn't meant to be a Tulip bubble project for speculators to speculate, but an easy low-cost way to pay for low-value items on the Internet. The benefit is the < 0.1% transaction fee and seller security with Bitcoins. Yes buyers love to be able to easily issue chargebacks, but vendors on the internet are losing a lot of money on frivolous chargebacks, both in terms of direct loss but also indirectly with chargeback fines, and reduced credit ratings. Bitcoins are good because a sale is a sale, and it evens the score between buyer and seller.

[cocopops]

Bitcoins. What a crock. Anyone with any sense knows our paper currency has REAL value because, well, because.... ok, forget that... My parents taught me the value of a dollar and they would never lie to me. Well, except for that Jesus thing.

Paper currency has value. Performing productive work almost anywhere in the world requires you to come up with a certain amount of paper currency to hand over to the government at the end of the year. If you don't, and they find out about it, eventually they will kick the door in, drag you away and lock you up. So the value of paper currency is that it can be used to prevent this from happening.

I'm sure the Jesus thing was just an honest mistake...

Edited April 12, 2013 by cocopops

[55Jay]

forgot to hit the sarcasm font button

[BlackPuddingBertha]

I think some people might misunderstand the purpose of Bitcoins. It isn't meant to be a Tulip bubble project for speculators to speculate, but an easy low-cost way to pay for low-value items on the Internet. The benefit is the < 0.1% transaction fee and seller security with Bitcoins. Yes buyers love to be able to easily issue chargebacks, but vendors on the internet are losing a lot of money on frivolous chargebacks, both in terms of direct loss but also indirectly with chargeback fines, and reduced credit ratings. Bitcoins are good because a sale is a sale, and it evens the score between buyer and seller.

I would say that Bitcoin is bad for exactly the same reason. There are far too many crooked sellers around for my taste, thank you.

When I buy online I do so using PayPal (for Ebay with the corresponding buyer protection) or using my Visa credit card (for all other purchases, with the full Visa protection and also the full UK consumer credit act protection, and my own bank's 100% online fraud protection guarantee).

I would never send an irreversible and untraceable Bitcoin payment to some unknown online vendor, and I think that anyone who does so must be totally bonkers.

[fletchsmile]

Phil Conners, on 12 Apr 2013 - 15:21, said:

I think some people might misunderstand the purpose of Bitcoins. It isn't meant to be a Tulip bubble project for speculators to speculate, but an easy low-cost way to pay for low-value items on the Internet. The benefit is the < 0.1% transaction fee and seller security with Bitcoins. Yes buyers love to be able to easily issue chargebacks, but vendors on the internet are losing a lot of money on frivolous chargebacks, both in terms of direct loss but also indirectly with chargeback fines, and reduced credit ratings. Bitcoins are good because a sale is a sale, and it evens the score between buyer and seller.

You might be right with what it is "meant to be...".

On the other hand, that might be just the way it has been presented,and the way people want you to think. Has anyone actually asked the "guy" who invented it?. Tulips and Bernie Madoff weren't presented as bubbles or pyramid scheme scams, but that's what they turned out to be. The way the Nigerian scams often work is by offering to make you money (bitcoin "save money") in return for you providing them with the transaction costs and ultimately access to your money for your benefit. Obviously this turns into using your money for their benefit.

Who's to say once your money is in the bitcoin system what will become of it? They're accessing people's money, varying detail given too depending on the acquiring method, and putting it in a system. What happens next no-one really knows. The anonymity is worrying. The real original purpose could be very different. What is also embedded in the algorithyms and software people haven't found yet? Not to mentione security issues. No real guarantees.

One can't deny that creating something digitally, giving it a worth, getting other people to pay for it, give some away "for free" by mining, then mess around with demand isn't a possibility. Traders manipulate regulated markets. These are unregulated markets. Just think how high frequenecy traders can manipulate stock prices, or collusion fixes a commodity price. Not that difficult to imagine. Imagine the first lot of people were all in this together, who then gave a few freebies to nerds as a promotion...

Look at the emperor's new bitcoin isn't it clever...

The difference here is people are passing round the emperor's new clothes, trying them on, bartering with them, trading them for contraband, making (/mining) a few more, and then....

Time will tell.

Fletch

Edited April 12, 2013 by fletchsmile

[a99az]

The Banks don't like anything that might replace what they have to offer/rob you of. And the government want there cut. The likes of the Fed reserve will squash any thing that looks good, or that might be better for Jo public. I't just a matter of time before it's taken over outlawed.

So buy gold, real gold, the sort you can hold in your hand, it's not that it's going up much but better that your ₤,$,€,฿,¥, being diluted by the day.

[fletchsmile]

The Banks don't like anything that might replace what they have to offer/rob you of. And the government want there cut. The likes of the Fed reserve will squash any thing that looks good, or that might be better for Jo public. I't just a matter of time before it's taken over outlawed.

So buy gold, real gold, the sort you can hold in your hand, it's not that it's going up much but better that your ₤,$,€,฿,¥, being diluted by the day.

I agree its worth holding some gold. Bear in mind though if fiat currencies all collapse that will bring many issues for gold so it's not a total solution by any means.. The chaos that would ensue if all main fiat currencies collapse won't lead to gentlemanly shaking hands and exchanging a bit of gold for a loaf of bread. More like anarchy and mad max with his dog as 55Jay's picture shows.

If it was in their interest the powers that be would also quash gold, outlaw it and confiscate it, making it illegal to possess. There's a US precedent for that too

[farang000999]

It is hilarious that a bunch of people who don't trust government money because it is created out of thin air have flocked to bit coin.

[RogueLeader]

It is hilarious that a bunch of people who don't trust government money because it is created out of thin air have flocked to bit coin.

Why is it hilarious?

[BuffaloRescue]

Bitcoin will be replaced with something better and faster working. This whole thing is very interesting (for me). A deflationary currency, exactly what we need! Im also interested in anything that draws attention to how ridiculous (and rigged) our keynesian/socialist economic system is. It woud be good if someone like Julian Assange got behind an e-currency, put some trust in it.

People are starting to wake up, i mean the general population. Too late probably

Edited April 12, 2013 by BuffaloRescue

[Phil Conners]

I think some people might misunderstand the purpose of Bitcoins. It isn't meant to be a Tulip bubble project for speculators to speculate, but an easy low-cost way to pay for low-value items on the Internet. The benefit is the < 0.1% transaction fee and seller security with Bitcoins. Yes buyers love to be able to easily issue chargebacks, but vendors on the internet are losing a lot of money on frivolous chargebacks, both in terms of direct loss but also indirectly with chargeback fines, and reduced credit ratings. Bitcoins are good because a sale is a sale, and it evens the score between buyer and seller.

I would say that Bitcoin is bad for exactly the same reason. There are far too many crooked sellers around for my taste, thank you.

When I buy online I do so using PayPal (for Ebay with the corresponding buyer protection) or using my Visa credit card (for all other purchases, with the full Visa protection and also the full UK consumer credit act protection, and my own bank's 100% online fraud protection guarantee).

I would never send an irreversible and untraceable Bitcoin payment to some unknown online vendor, and I think that anyone who does so must be totally bonkers.

Would you call yourself a glass-half-full or glass-half-empty kind of guy?

Vendors on the Internet spend a lot of money setting up their business (website), SEO, payment infrastructure and everything. All the buyer brings to the table is his email address and a payment that may or may not be fake. It works both ways. I get customers from certain areas of the world where I want to talk to them before I accept their business.

And I could also imagine a situation where you'd pay your first couple of months with your traditional plastic or Paypal, but once a certain trust has been build both parties would be happy using Bitcoins instead. I have customers who are paying recurring bills for years, some up to 10 years now. Imagine with Mastercard/Visa/Paypal taking upwards from 5% of the turnover for this, which could have been near-free with Bitcoin. That's where the benefit is.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

Would you call yourself a glass-half-full or glass-half-empty kind of guy?

Vendors on the Internet spend a lot of money setting up their business (website), SEO, payment infrastructure and everything. All the buyer brings to the table is his email address and a payment that may or may not be fake. It works both ways. I get customers from certain areas of the world where I want to talk to them before I accept their business.

I dont think the state of my glass has much to do with anything but I call myself an "I dont get ripped off very often" kind of guy.

As for the tribulations of setting up an online shopping company, it's totally not my problem. As the man said, if you dont like the heat best get out of the kitchen.

There are loads of online retailers around who are prepared to accept credit cards, and they will continue to be the ones who will get all my business. I wont be making any irreversible or untraceable transfers to anyone, especially if they are situated in largely lawless places like Thailand.

[khunken]

From CNN Money - as of now:

NEW YORK (CNNMoney)

The price of
Bitcoins has plunged more than 75% in the past two days, sparking a rush
of activity that overwhelmed trading platforms and suggested the bubble
in the virtual currency has burst.

Bitcoins were down to
$61.11 as of 9 a.m. ET Friday. Prices reached as high as $266 per
Bitcoin around 7:30 a.m. ET Wednesday. But the price started to fall
through the rest of day and Thursday morning.

At about 10 a.m. ET Thursday, trading was halted on Mt.Gox, a
Japan-based exchange that claims to handle 80% of Bitcoin trade
worldwide. The price at that time was already at about $123, down more
than 50% from the peak.

Mt.Gox issued a statement Friday
attributing both the pre-halt price fall and the halt in trading to the
rush of new customers trying to trade in the electronic currency.

"The rather astonishing amount of new accounts opened in the last few
days...made a huge impact on the overall system that started to lag,"
the exchange said. "As expected in such situations, people started to
panic, started to sell Bitcoin in mass...resulting in an increase of
trade that ultimately froze the trade engine."

The exchange said the shutdown was different from the cyber attacks that hit it and other Bitcoin sites earlier this month.

Related: Major Bitcoin exchanges hit with cyber attacks

During the Mt.Gox trading halt, trading continued on some smaller
Bitcoin markets, and the price fell sharply. When trading resumed on
Mt.Gox about 10 p.m. ET, the price quickly plunged as low as $69.45,
ricocheted back up to $135.69, then started to fall again. All the new
volume flooding back to Mt.Gox caused another 2-hour halt in trading.

When trading resumed again, it started a less volatile sell-off to the $61.11 price.

Societe Generale currency analyst Sebastien Galy said that even if the
bubble has burst for Bitcoins, it doesn't mean it won't have additional
rallies in the future.

"Its trading is typical of a bubble," he
said. "But there are still people who believe in it. You can't say
we're going to zero tomorrow. Even assets that have no underlying value
have people willing to trade in it."

Me: I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole

[fletchsmile]

Looking at movements again today, I'd say it doesn't fit the definition of a hedge. and definitely not a perfect hedge for anything.

Fletch