Do You Consider Bitcoin To Be A Serious Hedging Option?

[FiFtHeLeMeNt]

bitcoin is the future. I have bought some bitcoin when it was like $10 and I am keeping it as an investment.

currently generating 1 bitcoin costs about $50. so if you buy it around $50-$60 , it is an acceptable price now. but $200 is just bubble now. I will buy much more when price stabilizes.

but in future when it becomes scarce and adopted , the price will reach thousands of $ for each bitcoin.

[mccw]

bitcoin is the future. I have bought some bitcoin when it was like $10 and I am keeping it as an investment.

currently generating 1 bitcoin costs about $50. so if you buy it around $50-$60 , it is an acceptable price now. but $200 is just bubble now. I will buy much more when price stabilizes.

but in future when it becomes scarce and adopted , the price will reach thousands of $ for each bitcoin.

Unless everyone decides to use lite coin, or any number of other potential coins created "virtually", instead right?

[jbrain]

bitcoin is the future. I have bought some bitcoin when it was like $10 and I am keeping it as an investment.

currently generating 1 bitcoin costs about $50. so if you buy it around $50-$60 , it is an acceptable price now. but $200 is just bubble now. I will buy much more when price stabilizes.

but in future when it becomes scarce and adopted , the price will reach thousands of $ for each bitcoin.

But something you can create yourself will never become scarce.

[mccw]

bitcoin is the future. I have bought some bitcoin when it was like $10 and I am keeping it as an investment.

currently generating 1 bitcoin costs about $50. so if you buy it around $50-$60 , it is an acceptable price now. but $200 is just bubble now. I will buy much more when price stabilizes.

but in future when it becomes scarce and adopted , the price will reach thousands of $ for each bitcoin.

But something you can create yourself will never become scarce.

The code limits the amount of bitcoin possible to be created. But there is unlimited similar scope to create similar competing coins. Like lite coins are only 3 bucks right now and 4 times as many will be created. It could go on and on. Bit coin version 2 or 3 could spring up new an improved from same developers. The "limited" claim is rubbish in my opinion.

[jbrain]

bitcoin is the future. I have bought some bitcoin when it was like $10 and I am keeping it as an investment.

currently generating 1 bitcoin costs about $50. so if you buy it around $50-$60 , it is an acceptable price now. but $200 is just bubble now. I will buy much more when price stabilizes.

but in future when it becomes scarce and adopted , the price will reach thousands of $ for each bitcoin.

But something you can create yourself will never become scarce.

The code limits the amount of bitcoin possible to be created. But there is unlimited similar scope to create similar competing coins. Like lite coins are only 3 bucks right now and 4 times as many will be created. It could go on and on. Bit coin version 2 or 3 could spring up new an improved from same developers. The "limited" claim is rubbish in my opinion.

I'm not sure if I'm missing something, but someone created these bitcoins out of nothing and received millions of dollars for..............nothing.Correct?

And do we know who was the creator ?

[Loptr]

It is hilarious that a bunch of people who don't trust government money because it is created out of thin air have flocked to bit coin.

Why is it hilarious?

Well, for one, the USD/Bitcoin is down 39% TODAY alone in the market. Hard to take something with this much volatility serious.

[Phil Conners]

Isn't that the same that happens with small currencies, they're easily manipulated due to small market cap. My wild guess is it'll probably bounce around for a while but eventually settle around $25. While I like the idea, it's way too volatile to be useful for anything (but gambling) at this time.

[yoshiwara]

It is hilarious that a bunch of people who don't trust government money because it is created out of thin air have flocked to bit coin.

Why is it hilarious?

Because those who stand on their heads sometimes have that effect.

[NanLaew]

bitcoin is the future. I have bought some bitcoin when it was like $10 and I am keeping it as an investment.

currently generating 1 bitcoin costs about $50. so if you buy it around $50-$60 , it is an acceptable price now. but $200 is just bubble now. I will buy much more when price stabilizes.

but in future when it becomes scarce and adopted , the price will reach thousands of $ for each bitcoin.

But something you can create yourself will never become scarce.

Which is why a broke and moribund US economy manages to keep doggie paddling in the current world economic mess... just print more paper money and call it something fancy like 'quantitative easing'.

Once the dollar loses it's status as the preferred reserve currency of leading nations (and it will), then it's a whole new world. I reckon I will keep the gold bars and pass on these Bitcoins.

Back OT... there was an article on BBC regarding Bitcoin where just possibly, a Freudian slip was made (my emphasis).

"It’s a narrative perfectly matched to troubled economic times, and one reason for the staggering increase in the recent value of Bitcoins. Buying a single Bitcon on 9 April 2013 – through any one of the growing number of online exchanges – would have cost you almost $200, more than fifteen times its $9 value in January."

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20130412-bitcoin-and-the-illusion-of-money

[Naam]

Bitcoin Miner

[BlackPuddingBertha]

...... Bitcon .....

Can't argue with that.

[RogueLeader]

I think some people might misunderstand the purpose of Bitcoins. It isn't meant to be a Tulip bubble project for speculators to speculate, but an easy low-cost way to pay for low-value items on the Internet. The benefit is the < 0.1% transaction fee and seller security with Bitcoins. Yes buyers love to be able to easily issue chargebacks, but vendors on the internet are losing a lot of money on frivolous chargebacks, both in terms of direct loss but also indirectly with chargeback fines, and reduced credit ratings. Bitcoins are good because a sale is a sale, and it evens the score between buyer and seller.

I would say that Bitcoin is bad for exactly the same reason. There are far too many crooked sellers around for my taste, thank you.

When I buy online I do so using PayPal (for Ebay with the corresponding buyer protection) or using my Visa credit card (for all other purchases, with the full Visa protection and also the full UK consumer credit act protection, and my own bank's 100% online fraud protection guarantee).

I would never send an irreversible and untraceable Bitcoin payment to some unknown online vendor, and I think that anyone who does so must be totally bonkers.

Payments made are held in escrow until both parties agree to release. Do you not imagine that they've thought about this?

[Naam]

I think some people might misunderstand the purpose of Bitcoins. It isn't meant to be a Tulip bubble project for speculators to speculate, but an easy low-cost way to pay for low-value items on the Internet. The benefit is the < 0.1% transaction fee and seller security with Bitcoins. Yes buyers love to be able to easily issue chargebacks, but vendors on the internet are losing a lot of money on frivolous chargebacks, both in terms of direct loss but also indirectly with chargeback fines, and reduced credit ratings. Bitcoins are good because a sale is a sale, and it evens the score between buyer and seller.

I would say that Bitcoin is bad for exactly the same reason. There are far too many crooked sellers around for my taste, thank you.

When I buy online I do so using PayPal (for Ebay with the corresponding buyer protection) or using my Visa credit card (for all other purchases, with the full Visa protection and also the full UK consumer credit act protection, and my own bank's 100% online fraud protection guarantee).

I would never send an irreversible and untraceable Bitcoin payment to some unknown online vendor, and I think that anyone who does so must be totally bonkers.

Payments made are held in escrow until both parties agree to release. Do you not imagine that they've thought about this?

what if the buyer of a product claims he got only and does not agree to release the payment?

[dave111223]

If you use a company liket btcrow.com then in the case of a dispute they hear both sides and decide who gets the payment

[wordchild]

I would have thought the whole thing is completely doomed , given the recent publicity on the way up then the volatility then a collapse, no one in their right minds is going to take this seriously now! End of story. As is usual with these things a handful of people will have made some money but many many more will have lost, some maybe a great deal! Almost certainly going to be required study for students of economic history in years to come just like the tulips!

[BookMan]

If you use a company liket btcrow.com then in the case of a dispute they hear both sides and decide who gets the payment

Toss of a (bit) coin perhaps to decide?

[BookMan]

bitcoin is the future. I have bought some bitcoin when it was like $10 and I am keeping it as an investment.

currently generating 1 bitcoin costs about $50. so if you buy it around $50-$60 , it is an acceptable price now. but $200 is just bubble now. I will buy much more when price stabilizes.

but in future when it becomes scarce and adopted , the price will reach thousands of $ for each bitcoin.

But something you can create yourself will never become scarce.

The code limits the amount of bitcoin possible to be created. But there is unlimited similar scope to create similar competing coins. Like lite coins are only 3 bucks right now and 4 times as many will be created. It could go on and on. Bit coin version 2 or 3 could spring up new an improved from same developers. The "limited" claim is rubbish in my opinion.

I'm not sure if I'm missing something, but someone created these bitcoins out of nothing and received millions of dollars for..............nothing.Correct?

And do we know who was the creator ?

The creators of Bitcoin are mired in secrecy.

The good news for BitCoin devotees is that currencies such as OpenCoin and CoinLab and various others will be soon available.

These new currencies will be better than Bitcoin of course and investing early should guarantee vast wealth

[jbrain]

bitcoin is the future. I have bought some bitcoin when it was like $10 and I am keeping it as an investment.

currently generating 1 bitcoin costs about $50. so if you buy it around $50-$60 , it is an acceptable price now. but $200 is just bubble now. I will buy much more when price stabilizes.

but in future when it becomes scarce and adopted , the price will reach thousands of $ for each bitcoin.

But something you can create yourself will never become scarce.

The code limits the amount of bitcoin possible to be created. But there is unlimited similar scope to create similar competing coins. Like lite coins are only 3 bucks right now and 4 times as many will be created. It could go on and on. Bit coin version 2 or 3 could spring up new an improved from same developers. The "limited" claim is rubbish in my opinion.

I'm not sure if I'm missing something, but someone created these bitcoins out of nothing and received millions of dollars for..............nothing.Correct?

And do we know who was the creator ?

Nobody has answered my question yet. The way I understand it is that the original creator has in exchange for some software created xxxx amount of Bitcoins and sold them to the first buyers for x amount of Dollars.So hed must have earned some nice dosh.

Who says he doesn't keep creating Bitcoins or any other Monopoly money?

[dave111223]

Nobody has answered my question yet. The way I understand it is that the original creator has in exchange for some software created xxxx amount of Bitcoins and sold them to the first buyers for x amount of Dollars.So hed must have earned some nice dosh.

Who says he doesn't keep creating Bitcoins or any other Monopoly money?

Would be nice if threads didn't keep getting deleted then these questions wouldn't need to be answered 20 times.

The original programmer create a program/protocol called "Bitcoin" where bitcoins were to be generated by the code every 10 minutes. Anyone could mine them from the start, by running a program on their computer, and getting a chance to get bitcoins every 10 minutes.

The original programmer mined the first block (50 bitcoins), at which point other people who were interested in it started mining and gained bitcoins also.

I'm not sure where you are getting all this "created bitcoins in exchange for software and then sold them to the first buyer"; this does not make any sense (logically how would you create bitcoins without any software, in exchange for software which in turn is required to create the bitcoins??) and is totally false. When bitcoins were first introduced they were worth nothing (no one was willing to pay anything for them)...so the original programmer was not able to sell his bitcoins for anything. After a few months/a year then people started offering a few cents to buy bitcoins from others and so on.

The origional programmer does not create bitcoins. Bitcoins are created by the code (for example if i write some code that types on the screen "Hello World" every 10 minutes would I be saying "Hello World" or would the code be saying "Hello World"? The code would be saying it. Since the programmer does not have the ability to change the code that is already installed on peoples computers, then he does not have the ability change the total number of bitcoins generated, or change their frequence etc...

Bitcoin is an opensource project, meaning that there are now many programmers. You can be a programmer if you want. You just go here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin

Edit the code, and then submit pull request asking the team leaders to include your code into the next bitcoin version.

The current head of the oopensource code project is Gavin Anderson, so he would have the final say as to whether your new code is included or not.

If your code is included in the next version of Bitcoin then the general public may download this new version and start using it and you have now contributed to the bitcoin code. Or the general public may decide that your new version is crap and they are sticking with the old version, in which case your code has been "rejected" by the public and the team leaders would probably remove your code from the next bitcoin version in order to get that version accepted by the public.

Edited April 13, 2013 by dave111223

[ITGabs]

From wikipedia:

Satoshi Nakamoto

Satoshi Nakamoto was the pseudonymous person or group of people who designed the original bitcoin protocol in 2008 and launched the bitcoin network in 2009. Beyond bitcoin, no other links to this identity have been found. His involvement in the original bitcoin protocol does not appear to extend past mid-2010.

Nakamoto was active in making modifications to the bitcoin network and posting technical information on the BitcoinTalk Forum until his contact with bitcoin users began to fade. Until a few months before he left, he was responsible for creating the majority of the bitcoin protocol, only rarely accepting contributions.

In April 2011, Satoshi communicated to a bitcoin contributor saying he had “moved on to other things.”

Identity

Investigations into the real identity of Satoshi Nakamoto have been attempted by The New Yorker and Fast Company. Fast Company's investigation brought up circumstantial evidence that indicated a link between an encryption patent application filed by Neal King, Vladimir Oksman and Charles Bry on 15 August 2008, and the bitcoin.org domain name which was registered 72 hours later. The patent application (#20100042841) contained networking and encryption technologies similar to bitcoin's. After textual analysis, the phrase "...computationally impractical to reverse" was found in both the patent application and bitcoin's whitepaper. All three inventors explicitly denied being Satoshi Nakamoto.

Edited April 13, 2013 by ITGabs

[RogueLeader]

Nobody has answered my question yet. The way I understand it is that the original creator has in exchange for some software created xxxx amount of Bitcoins and sold them to the first buyers for x amount of Dollars.So hed must have earned some nice dosh.

Who says he doesn't keep creating Bitcoins or any other Monopoly money?

Would be nice if threads didn't keep getting deleted then these questions wouldn't need to be answered 20 times.

The original programmer create a program/protocol called "Bitcoin" where bitcoins were to be generated by the code every 10 minutes. Anyone could mine them from the start, by running a program on their computer, and getting a chance to get bitcoins every 10 minutes.

The original programmer mined the first block (50 bitcoins), at which point other people who were interested in it started mining and gained bitcoins also.

I'm not sure where you are getting all this "created bitcoins in exchange for software and then sold them to the first buyer"; this does not make any sense (logically how would you create bitcoins without any software, in exchange for software which in turn is required to create the bitcoins??) and is totally false. When bitcoins were first introduced they were worth nothing (no one was willing to pay anything for them)...so the original programmer was not able to sell his bitcoins for anything. After a few months/a year then people started offering a few cents to buy bitcoins from others and so on.

The origional programmer does not create bitcoins. Bitcoins are created by the code (for example if i write some code that types on the screen "Hello World" every 10 minutes would I be saying "Hello World" or would the code be saying "Hello World"? The code would be saying it. Since the programmer does not have the ability to change the code that is already installed on peoples computers, then he does not have the ability change the total number of bitcoins generated, or change their frequence etc...

Bitcoin is an opensource project, meaning that there are now many programmers. You can be a programmer if you want. You just go here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin

Edit the code, and then submit pull request asking the team leaders to include your code into the next bitcoin version.

The current head of the oopensource code project is Gavin Anderson, so he would have the final say as to whether your new code is included or not.

If your code is included in the next version of Bitcoin then the general public may download this new version and start using it and you have now contributed to the bitcoin code. Or the general public may decide that your new version is crap and they are sticking with the old version, in which case your code has been "rejected" by the public and the team leaders would probably remove your code from the next bitcoin version in order to get that version accepted by the public.

Someone who understands open source software development. A refreshing surprise

[NeverSure]

I would like to have a bitcoin. I will trade anyone one Dutch tulip bulb, or one French assignat for one.

The point is that they aren't at all limited. Others will create other rivals, and then there could be a flood. Bitcoin isn't limited as many think because it can be rivaled.

Unlike some commodities where the supply truly is finite, virtual currencies are unlimited. I see them as another fiat currency. What are they backed by? They are nothing but ones and zeros in computers. You don't even get paper and ink with them.

Have fun y'all. I bought US$9,500 worth of junk silver dollars this morning for $27 each. ($10,000 triggers some paperwork to the government I don't like. Less than that, pay cash and walk out anonymously.) If it all goes to h3ll, I can at least drill holes in them and use them for fishing weights.

I'd rather have 4 Morgan silver dollars in my hand than a bitcoin in cyberspace, but that's just me.

I hope y'all get rich.

[dave111223]

I would like to have a bitcoin. I will trade anyone one Dutch tulip bulb, or one French assignat for one.

The point is that they aren't at all limited. Others will create other rivals, and then there could be a flood. Bitcoin isn't limited as many think because it can be rivaled.

Unlike some commodities where the supply truly is finite, virtual currencies are unlimited. I see them as another fiat currency. What are they backed by? They are nothing but ones and zeros in computers. You don't even get paper and ink with them.

Have fun y'all. I bought US$9,500 worth of junk silver dollars this morning for $27 each. ($10,000 triggers some paperwork to the government I don't like. Less than that, pay cash and walk out anonymously.) If it all goes to h3ll, I can at least drill holes in them and use them for fishing weights.

I'd rather have 4 Morgan silver dollars in my hand than a bitcoin in cyberspace, but that's just me.

I hope y'all get rich.

It really is dreary to hear the "Tulip" example trotted out again and again; like you are so smart for having knowledge of this little historical tidbit. When it is clearly, at this point, not comparible if you have any knowledge of bitcoin.

Firstly the Tulip bubble hyped to crazy prices then crashed...end of story. Bitcoin has crashed and rebounded over and over again, which already nulifies the comparison from a trading point of view (were people hyping Tulips again 2 years after the original price crash?). Also on a technical level there is no comparison at all.

Can you please try and at least get some variation to your ignorant comparisons (maybe call them beanie babies next time might make you look smart). Neither Tulips or Beanie babies have any utility they provide only emotional gratification, whereas bitcoins have numerous utility functions.

Bitcoins would be more compariable to the .COM bubble; but we are still using the internet aren't we?

As for the limited supply one cannot consider creating rival virtual currencies as "increasing the supply of bitcoins".

If I start calling copper or aluminium a precious metal, will it effect the demand for gold? I have increased the supply of "precious metals" but I have not increased the supply of Gold. In the same way that creating additional currencies would be increasing the supply of virtal currencies, but not increasing the supply of bitcoins.

Edited April 14, 2013 by dave111223

[OxfordWill]

one of the more ignorance-filled threads I've seen on TV this year. Congratulations!

I do ~10% of my business thanks to bitcoins. That's approximates to my rent being paid for thanks to bitcoins existing. My condo is definitely something of value and tangible, and very much useful to me, so put that in your pipes and smoke it.

Volatility of late or not, like any "currency" one can make or lose money from its movement.

edit: bitcoin is not a pyramid scheme. You have misunderstood. Someone used bitcoins IN their own pyramid scheme, but bitcoins themselves are NOT:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin

Edited April 14, 2013 by OxfordWill

[OxfordWill]

Exante Ltd., a Malta-based investment firm, launched a bitcoin hedge fund marketed towards institutional investors and high net-worth individuals. Bitcoin shares are currently traded through the Exante Hedge Fund Marketplace platform and authorized and regulated by the Malta Financial Services Authority. As of March 2013, Exante holds $3.2 million (2.5€ million) in bitcoin assets.^[59]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin#Hedge_funds

edit: Hope you can bring back the other members' replies.

Edited April 14, 2013 by OxfordWill

[meom]

Ripple is supposed to be the next big thing after bitcoin.

https://ripple.com/

[jbrain]

I would like to have a bitcoin. I will trade anyone one Dutch tulip bulb, or one French assignat for one.

The point is that they aren't at all limited. Others will create other rivals, and then there could be a flood. Bitcoin isn't limited as many think because it can be rivaled.

Unlike some commodities where the supply truly is finite, virtual currencies are unlimited. I see them as another fiat currency. What are they backed by? They are nothing but ones and zeros in computers. You don't even get paper and ink with them.

Have fun y'all. I bought US$9,500 worth of junk silver dollars this morning for $27 each. ($10,000 triggers some paperwork to the government I don't like. Less than that, pay cash and walk out anonymously.) If it all goes to h3ll, I can at least drill holes in them and use them for fishing weights.

I'd rather have 4 Morgan silver dollars in my hand than a bitcoin in cyberspace, but that's just me.

I hope y'all get rich.

If you're quickly you can now still swap one of your silver coins for a chinese made driil, as they have dropped 10% already since your purchase.

Then next I would advise to start drilling.

Edited April 15, 2013 by jbrain

[BuffaloRescue]

I think some people might misunderstand the purpose of Bitcoins. It isn't meant to be a Tulip bubble project for speculators to speculate, but an easy low-cost way to pay for low-value items on the Internet. The benefit is the < 0.1% transaction fee and seller security with Bitcoins. Yes buyers love to be able to easily issue chargebacks, but vendors on the internet are losing a lot of money on frivolous chargebacks, both in terms of direct loss but also indirectly with chargeback fines, and reduced credit ratings. Bitcoins are good because a sale is a sale, and it evens the score between buyer and seller.

I would say that Bitcoin is bad for exactly the same reason. There are far too many crooked sellers around for my taste, thank you.

When I buy online I do so using PayPal (for Ebay with the corresponding buyer protection) or using my Visa credit card (for all other purchases, with the full Visa protection and also the full UK consumer credit act protection, and my own bank's 100% online fraud protection guarantee).

I would never send an irreversible and untraceable Bitcoin payment to some unknown online vendor, and I think that anyone who does so must be totally bonkers.

Would you call yourself a glass-half-full or glass-half-empty kind of guy?

Vendors on the Internet spend a lot of money setting up their business (website), SEO, payment infrastructure and everything. All the buyer brings to the table is his email address and a payment that may or may not be fake. It works both ways. I get customers from certain areas of the world where I want to talk to them before I accept their business.

And I could also imagine a situation where you'd pay your first couple of months with your traditional plastic or Paypal, but once a certain trust has been build both parties would be happy using Bitcoins instead. I have customers who are paying recurring bills for years, some up to 10 years now. Imagine with Mastercard/Visa/Paypal taking upwards from 5% of the turnover for this, which could have been near-free with Bitcoin. That's where the benefit is.

True

Id hardly call it bonkers to buy some small value items from dealers you trust, using BC.

As you say... someone providing a repeat service.. and you save money.

Me.. in many cases id rather send someone a bit coin than give an unknown company my credit card number. With a bit coin.. they could only steal your coin not max out your credit card as well

Edited April 15, 2013 by BuffaloRescue

[mccw]

I would like to have a bitcoin. I will trade anyone one Dutch tulip bulb, or one French assignat for one.

The point is that they aren't at all limited. Others will create other rivals, and then there could be a flood. Bitcoin isn't limited as many think because it can be rivaled.

Unlike some commodities where the supply truly is finite, virtual currencies are unlimited. I see them as another fiat currency. What are they backed by? They are nothing but ones and zeros in computers. You don't even get paper and ink with them.

Have fun y'all. I bought US$9,500 worth of junk silver dollars this morning for $27 each. ($10,000 triggers some paperwork to the government I don't like. Less than that, pay cash and walk out anonymously.) If it all goes to h3ll, I can at least drill holes in them and use them for fishing weights.

I'd rather have 4 Morgan silver dollars in my hand than a bitcoin in cyberspace, but that's just me.

I hope y'all get rich.

It really is dreary to hear the "Tulip" example trotted out again and again; like you are so smart for having knowledge of this little historical tidbit. When it is clearly, at this point, not comparible if you have any knowledge of bitcoin.

Firstly the Tulip bubble hyped to crazy prices then crashed...end of story. Bitcoin has crashed and rebounded over and over again, which already nulifies the comparison from a trading point of view (were people hyping Tulips again 2 years after the original price crash?). Also on a technical level there is no comparison at all.

Can you please try and at least get some variation to your ignorant comparisons (maybe call them beanie babies next time might make you look smart). Neither Tulips or Beanie babies have any utility they provide only emotional gratification, whereas bitcoins have numerous utility functions.

Bitcoins would be more compariable to the .COM bubble; but we are still using the internet aren't we?

As for the limited supply one cannot consider creating rival virtual currencies as "increasing the supply of bitcoins".

If I start calling copper or aluminium a precious metal, will it effect the demand for gold? I have increased the supply of "precious metals" but I have not increased the supply of Gold. In the same way that creating additional currencies would be increasing the supply of virtal currencies, but not increasing the supply of bitcoins.

Still not a valid comparison dave.

The different commodities all have different real word uses other than trade/ currency. Bitcoins and the unlimited number of rivals all have the same use.

I like bit coin as an idea and as an alternative means of exchange but its not at all limited as you try to make out.

The other currencies will surely dilute it.

[mccw]

Its early days and bit coin is just the first e currency to get widespread attention / acceptance to a degree. That's the only thing its got going for it no? The others all do the same thing and so what gives them or bit coin the bigger diff values, just the into all hype / acceptance