Yingluck Helps Sister Yaowapa Campaign In Chiang Mai

[OzMick]

Overworked? PMs of countries with far larger area, population and economy still manage to appear in parliament to put forward policies and answer the opposition's questions. OTOH most of them have had actual experience of "work" without the advantages of nepotism and cronyism.

"... most of them have had actual experience of "work" without the advantages of nepotism and cronyism."

Singapore: ... those who all the while look up at Singapore as the most 'graft-free' nation, again they are wrong. Perhaps, Singapore is the country with the highest record of cronyism and nepotism.

http://justread-whatever.blogspot.com/2010/11/singapore-country-with-highest-nepotism.html

Vietnam: Much of the Vietnamese anger about nepotism and poor economic management has been directed at Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung, who was re-elected to a five-year term last year.

... The cable, made public through WikiLeaks, highlighted the corporate career of Nguyen Thanh Phuong, the prime minister’s daughter. “There is no doubt that she is talented,” Mr. Winnick wrote. “However, her rapid advance, and the many doors that opened for her and her two brothers are indicative of how the Vietnamese political elite ensures that their progeny are well placed educationally, politically and economically.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/02/world/asia/in-vietnam-message-of-equality-challenged-by-wealth-gap.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Australia: Appointment of Gillard's partner 'stinks' of nepotism, says Joyce

The Nationals Leader in the Senate, Barnaby Joyce, says Mr Mathieson, a former hairdresser, does not have the credentials for the job.

"Well, I don't want to go out on a limb, but I'm not quite sure whether health care is hair care and that seems to be the credentials for this appointment," he said.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2008-11-26/appointment-of-gillards-partner-stinks-of-nepotism/219028

Queensland Premier Campbell Newman is likely to face further scrutiny of his handling of nepotism allegations when State Parliament sits today.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-30/mps-gear-up-for-parliament-amid-nepotism-row/4340720

The vice-chancellor of an Australian university will step down in light of allegations that one of his relatives was given an easy ride in an entrance examination. Paul Greenfield, vice-chancellor of the University of Queensland, will leave in June 2012 .... Entry requirements to a course - believed to be medicine - were allegedly lowered to allow Professor Greenfield's relative to enrol.

http://www.improvingthestudentexperience.com/news/nepotism-can-be-fatal/

Madgwicks has been nearly constantly involved in a steady stream of ethical controversies, including one incident where strippers were hired to celebrate a partner’s birthday. The firm was also involved in the notorious University of Melbourne Student Union liquidation where they presided over the expenditure of millions of dollars on litigation they later withdrew due to insufficient evidence. Legal insiders say Graeme Levy – who lives in a Toorak mansion worth at least $5 million – personally profited to the tune of $1 million from that taxpayer funded litigation spree. It’s clear he intends to pass his gains on to his slow-witted son.

http://www.vexnews.com/2009/06/nepotism-at-work-michael-levy-finds-rapid-promotion-at-taxpayer-fuelled-law-firm-madgwicks-thanks-to-father-graeme-levy/

Britain: Nepotism alive and well as one in three lands job through family members

One in three Brits has landed a job through a friend or family member - proving that nepotism is alive and well in the British workplace, a study has shown.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/8719786/Nepotism-alive-and-well-as-one-in-three-lands-job-through-family-members.html

New Zealand: Murray McCully accused of nepotism

http://www.3news.co.nz/Murray-McCully-accused-of-epotism/tabid/419/articleID/217996/Default.aspx

South Korea: The South Korean Foreign Minister, Yu Myung-hwan, has offered to resign after it was revealed that his daughter was offered a job in his ministry.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11186649

Italy: The family may be central to Italian business life, but many economists believe that nepotism - the practice of giving jobs to family members - is preventing talented young people from finding work, and holding the country back.

http://article.wn.com/view/2013/02/20/Nepotism_alive_and_kicking_in_Italy/#/related_news

Malaysia: Many investors, both local and foreign, have learnt the hard way to really realise the pitfalls of their investments in Malaysia.

Actually, it is not so difficult to understand the wheeling and dealing because it all revolves around two words – cronyism and nepotism.

http://victorlim1982.blogspot.com/2012/10/cronyism-nepotism-big-business-ethics.html

I certainly acknowledge that nepotism exists elsewhere (did you notice that it is frowned upon), but I was referring to PMs in particular. Here we have a PM who bought his position, followed closely by not one, but 2 with no reason for accession other than family name, and a foreign minister, MPs, a chief of police given a rocket rise through the ranks, high-ranking military officer, and more. In more enlightened parts of the world, nepotism is a dirty secret - here it is lauded.

Then consider the percentage alleged or proven to be corrupt, in a hugely wealthy family whose fortune was based on theft from the populace.

[OzMick]

I believe the 'strong opinionated' Ozmick may spend the majority of his time in Australia.......of course I may also be corrected on this......not that I see any reason to bring this up......only you did!

Want to bet your pair of nines against a royal flush?

[Sing_Sling]

Never was there a mention of 'defending' anyone . . . that assumption was taken by OzMick.

The Thaksin clan wasn't the first and they won't be the last to go down this road, but if people focus solely on them and become blind-eye apologists for others then there is a definite disconnect between realty and bias

I'm not going any further into what Ozmick or you said a number of posts ago.

Certainly the Shinawatra clan aren't the first & won't be the last to go down this road. But you seem to miss the point that they have a greater affect on Thailand currently than any other. I live here and I have a great liking for the country and don't want to see it become a quasi dictatorship which is what happens when corrupt power mad individuals are allowed to achieve their aims. One has to focus on the nearest & worst.

Nope, didn't miss the point at all and agree wholeheartedly

OzMick took exception to my saying that cronyism isn't extraordinarily a Thai affair by listing the Thaksin crimes and challenging to name anyone else that would come close . . . which was responded to by listing quite a few despots both in the region and not.

Never was there a mention of 'defending' anyone . . . that assumption was taken by OzMick.

The Thaksin clan wasn't the first and they won't be the last to go down this road, but if people focus solely on them and become blind-eye apologists for others then there is a definite disconnect between realty and bias

I was pointing out that the EXTENT of nepotism by the Shinawatras is extraordinary, and as others have indicated those that come close are far from admirable. "Never was there a mention of 'defending' anyone" that claim is purely your own.

What you call an agenda, bias and "blind-eye apologists for others" is simply the recognition of a thief, and the refusal to accept the pretensions of honour, generosity and statesmanship that some find so appealing. That Thaksin was, is and always will be a thief is reality.

. . . and you made the point that it was extraordinary . . . and . . . it isn't.

The recognition of a thief - absolutely - at best. There can be no disagreement on that

[Sing_Sling]

Never was there a mention of 'defending' anyone . . . that assumption was taken by OzMick.

The Thaksin clan wasn't the first and they won't be the last to go down this road, but if people focus solely on them and become blind-eye apologists for others then there is a definite disconnect between realty and bias

I'm not going any further into what Ozmick or you said a number of posts ago.

Certainly the Shinawatra clan aren't the first & won't be the last to go down this road. But you seem to miss the point that they have a greater affect on Thailand currently than any other. I live here and I have a great liking for the country and don't want to see it become a quasi dictatorship which is what happens when corrupt power mad individuals are allowed to achieve their aims. One has to focus on the nearest & worst.

And that is exactly what I was also going to say .... We are focussed on this ( Shinawatra clan ) because we live HERE....end of story ... ! If we lived elsewhere we would be focussed on what happens there which yes of course could be a similar situation /... EG If I lived in the Philippines now or in the years of dear Imelda ( Marcos ).. I would be focussed on discussing that situation ... But I live HERE and most of the other posters and we are talking about the situation here in Thailand where we live ... !

Excellent, annabel . . . you live HERE . . . end of story!

(So, why bring up others?)

[rubl]

I fail to understand how wrongdoings in other countries relate to the topic of our PM once more helping out a Pheu Thai candidate in an election. No, not her brother's telephone pole, but the big sister. I wonder if she stressed the seemless co-operation between the government and Shinawatras, all to the benefit of the Thai population off course

[AleG]

Oh, if only Yingluck would have told those people at the market she was campaigning at that she plans to make them to pay taxes to balance the 30% cut she gave to rich people. Would had been funny to see her being pelted by last week's produce.

[Valentine]

It would be interesting to have some Chiang Mai residents report on how they perceive the outcome of this by election. PT thought a power pole could win the Bangkok governor election & all the polls showed their candidate would win easily. I wonder if a similar scenario could happen in CM, after all the Dems have put up a fairly influential candidate & I am sure if she won it would be extremely humiliating for PT & the clan.

[waza]

Overworked? PMs of countries with far larger area, population and economy still manage to appear in parliament to put forward policies and answer the opposition's questions. OTOH most of them have had actual experience of "work" without the advantages of nepotism and cronyism.

"... most of them have had actual experience of "work" without the advantages of nepotism and cronyism."

Singapore: ... those who all the while look up at Singapore as the most 'graft-free' nation, again they are wrong. Perhaps, Singapore is the country with the highest record of cronyism and nepotism.

http://justread-whatever.blogspot.com/2010/11/singapore-country-with-highest-nepotism.html

Vietnam: Much of the Vietnamese anger about nepotism and poor economic management has been directed at Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung, who was re-elected to a five-year term last year.

... The cable, made public through WikiLeaks, highlighted the corporate career of Nguyen Thanh Phuong, the prime minister’s daughter. “There is no doubt that she is talented,” Mr. Winnick wrote. “However, her rapid advance, and the many doors that opened for her and her two brothers are indicative of how the Vietnamese political elite ensures that their progeny are well placed educationally, politically and economically.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/02/world/asia/in-vietnam-message-of-equality-challenged-by-wealth-gap.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Australia: Appointment of Gillard's partner 'stinks' of nepotism, says Joyce

The Nationals Leader in the Senate, Barnaby Joyce, says Mr Mathieson, a former hairdresser, does not have the credentials for the job.

"Well, I don't want to go out on a limb, but I'm not quite sure whether health care is hair care and that seems to be the credentials for this appointment," he said.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2008-11-26/appointment-of-gillards-partner-stinks-of-nepotism/219028

Queensland Premier Campbell Newman is likely to face further scrutiny of his handling of nepotism allegations when State Parliament sits today.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-30/mps-gear-up-for-parliament-amid-nepotism-row/4340720

The vice-chancellor of an Australian university will step down in light of allegations that one of his relatives was given an easy ride in an entrance examination. Paul Greenfield, vice-chancellor of the University of Queensland, will leave in June 2012 .... Entry requirements to a course - believed to be medicine - were allegedly lowered to allow Professor Greenfield's relative to enrol.

http://www.improvingthestudentexperience.com/news/nepotism-can-be-fatal/

Madgwicks has been nearly constantly involved in a steady stream of ethical controversies, including one incident where strippers were hired to celebrate a partner’s birthday. The firm was also involved in the notorious University of Melbourne Student Union liquidation where they presided over the expenditure of millions of dollars on litigation they later withdrew due to insufficient evidence. Legal insiders say Graeme Levy – who lives in a Toorak mansion worth at least $5 million – personally profited to the tune of $1 million from that taxpayer funded litigation spree. It’s clear he intends to pass his gains on to his slow-witted son.

http://www.vexnews.com/2009/06/nepotism-at-work-michael-levy-finds-rapid-promotion-at-taxpayer-fuelled-law-firm-madgwicks-thanks-to-father-graeme-levy/

Britain: Nepotism alive and well as one in three lands job through family members

One in three Brits has landed a job through a friend or family member - proving that nepotism is alive and well in the British workplace, a study has shown.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/8719786/Nepotism-alive-and-well-as-one-in-three-lands-job-through-family-members.html

New Zealand: Murray McCully accused of nepotism

http://www.3news.co.nz/Murray-McCully-accused-of-epotism/tabid/419/articleID/217996/Default.aspx

South Korea: The South Korean Foreign Minister, Yu Myung-hwan, has offered to resign after it was revealed that his daughter was offered a job in his ministry.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11186649

Italy: The family may be central to Italian business life, but many economists believe that nepotism - the practice of giving jobs to family members - is preventing talented young people from finding work, and holding the country back.

http://article.wn.com/view/2013/02/20/Nepotism_alive_and_kicking_in_Italy/#/related_news

Malaysia: Many investors, both local and foreign, have learnt the hard way to really realise the pitfalls of their investments in Malaysia.

Actually, it is not so difficult to understand the wheeling and dealing because it all revolves around two words – cronyism and nepotism.

http://victorlim1982.blogspot.com/2012/10/cronyism-nepotism-big-business-ethics.html

How many of these are fugitive convicted criminals using their sister to run a country on their behalf?

[waza]

I fail to understand how wrongdoings in other countries relate to the topic of our PM once more helping out a Pheu Thai candidate in an election. No, not her brother's telephone pole, but the big sister. I wonder if she stressed the seemless co-operation between the government and Shinawatras, all to the benefit of the Thai population off course

In CM Thaksin isnt running a power pole he is running a brick dunny supported by one who bangs like a dunny door.

Edited April 16, 2013 by waza

[GrantSmith]

Excellent, annabel . . . you live HERE . . . end of story!

(So, why bring up others?)

If by here you mean the "inter-world" then sure... If not, I'm not so sure

[hellodolly]

she needs a relative in the government so she can have a friend.instead of the puppet master

I personally feel she is helping her replacement come out more into the open on the Political landscape here in Thailand.

[hellodolly]

It would be interesting to have some Chiang Mai residents report on how they perceive the outcome of this by election. PT thought a power pole could win the Bangkok governor election & all the polls showed their candidate would win easily. I wonder if a similar scenario could happen in CM, after all the Dems have put up a fairly influential candidate & I am sure if she won it would be extremely humiliating for PT & the clan.

Not to mention an awakening for the rest of Thailand.

Thaksin could possibly have all his eggs in one basket here.

Chiang Mai would not be the first red community to vote Democrat.

Perhaps the yellow shirts will come out in support for his opposition.

Instead of indorsing him by not voting.

If they had voted the PT would never have gotten the majority of seats.

Also this time the people are under no illusion that they are voting for Yaowapa.

Many of them thought they were voting for Yingluck and now know the truth.

[kimamey]

Overworked? PMs of countries with far larger area, population and economy still manage to appear in parliament to put forward policies and answer the opposition's questions. OTOH most of them have had actual experience of "work" without the advantages of nepotism and cronyism.

"... most of them have had actual experience of "work" without the advantages of nepotism and cronyism."

Singapore: ... those who all the while look up at Singapore as the most 'graft-free' nation, again they are wrong. Perhaps, Singapore is the country with the highest record of cronyism and nepotism.

http://justread-whatever.blogspot.com/2010/11/singapore-country-with-highest-nepotism.html

Vietnam: Much of the Vietnamese anger about nepotism and poor economic management has been directed at Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung, who was re-elected to a five-year term last year.

... The cable, made public through WikiLeaks, highlighted the corporate career of Nguyen Thanh Phuong, the prime minister’s daughter. “There is no doubt that she is talented,” Mr. Winnick wrote. “However, her rapid advance, and the many doors that opened for her and her two brothers are indicative of how the Vietnamese political elite ensures that their progeny are well placed educationally, politically and economically.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/02/world/asia/in-vietnam-message-of-equality-challenged-by-wealth-gap.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Australia: Appointment of Gillard's partner 'stinks' of nepotism, says Joyce

The Nationals Leader in the Senate, Barnaby Joyce, says Mr Mathieson, a former hairdresser, does not have the credentials for the job.

"Well, I don't want to go out on a limb, but I'm not quite sure whether health care is hair care and that seems to be the credentials for this appointment," he said.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2008-11-26/appointment-of-gillards-partner-stinks-of-nepotism/219028

Queensland Premier Campbell Newman is likely to face further scrutiny of his handling of nepotism allegations when State Parliament sits today.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-10-30/mps-gear-up-for-parliament-amid-nepotism-row/4340720

The vice-chancellor of an Australian university will step down in light of allegations that one of his relatives was given an easy ride in an entrance examination. Paul Greenfield, vice-chancellor of the University of Queensland, will leave in June 2012 .... Entry requirements to a course - believed to be medicine - were allegedly lowered to allow Professor Greenfield's relative to enrol.

http://www.improvingthestudentexperience.com/news/nepotism-can-be-fatal/

Madgwicks has been nearly constantly involved in a steady stream of ethical controversies, including one incident where strippers were hired to celebrate a partner’s birthday. The firm was also involved in the notorious University of Melbourne Student Union liquidation where they presided over the expenditure of millions of dollars on litigation they later withdrew due to insufficient evidence. Legal insiders say Graeme Levy – who lives in a Toorak mansion worth at least $5 million – personally profited to the tune of $1 million from that taxpayer funded litigation spree. It’s clear he intends to pass his gains on to his slow-witted son.

http://www.vexnews.com/2009/06/nepotism-at-work-michael-levy-finds-rapid-promotion-at-taxpayer-fuelled-law-firm-madgwicks-thanks-to-father-graeme-levy/

Britain: Nepotism alive and well as one in three lands job through family members

One in three Brits has landed a job through a friend or family member - proving that nepotism is alive and well in the British workplace, a study has shown.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/jobs/8719786/Nepotism-alive-and-well-as-one-in-three-lands-job-through-family-members.html

New Zealand: Murray McCully accused of nepotism

http://www.3news.co.nz/Murray-McCully-accused-of-epotism/tabid/419/articleID/217996/Default.aspx

South Korea: The South Korean Foreign Minister, Yu Myung-hwan, has offered to resign after it was revealed that his daughter was offered a job in his ministry.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11186649

Italy: The family may be central to Italian business life, but many economists believe that nepotism - the practice of giving jobs to family members - is preventing talented young people from finding work, and holding the country back.

http://article.wn.com/view/2013/02/20/Nepotism_alive_and_kicking_in_Italy/#/related_news

Malaysia: Many investors, both local and foreign, have learnt the hard way to really realise the pitfalls of their investments in Malaysia.

Actually, it is not so difficult to understand the wheeling and dealing because it all revolves around two words – cronyism and nepotism.

http://victorlim1982.blogspot.com/2012/10/cronyism-nepotism-big-business-ethics.html

I certainly acknowledge that nepotism exists elsewhere (did you notice that it is frowned upon), but I was referring to PMs in particular. Here we have a PM who bought his position, followed closely by not one, but 2 with no reason for accession other than family name, and a foreign minister, MPs, a chief of police given a rocket rise through the ranks, high-ranking military officer, and more. In more enlightened parts of the world, nepotism is a dirty secret - here it is lauded.

Then consider the percentage alleged or proven to be corrupt, in a hugely wealthy family whose fortune was based on theft from the populace.

I wouldn't put much weight behind the UK one from the Telegraph. Nepotism relates to family not friends. I'm not surprised that if someone is looking for a new worker they might take a look at someone suggested by one of their employees. If you're looking for a job it's not really wrong to ask friends and family if they know of any jobs. Also a lot of that article is about employing someone you know or is know by someone whose judgement you trust. It's not nepotism although I agree it does go on elsewhere but there's nothing wrong if the person is best for the job. In many western countries if someone is employed just because of a family connection ahead of someone who is more qualified then there is often an investigation.

As for the PM being over worked , I don't know what she does so it's difficult to comment knowledgeably. Most of her time seems to be taken up with foreign trips so why doesn't she get someone else to do some of them? Possibly the Foreign Minister. I'm assuming he's up to the job and isn't the Minister because he's next in the queue or a family member. There also seems to be a large number of Deputy PMs as well.

What would she do in other countries? In the UK all MPs and therefore the PM as well have to be elected to a parliamentary constituency so they have to meet with constituents who wish to bring matters to their attention. My Thai gf was surprised that I can just go to see my MP at one of their surgeries without payment or being introduced by an influential friend and regardless of who I voted for.

[DeepInTheForest]

Overworked? PMs of countries with far larger area, population and economy still manage to appear in parliament to put forward policies and answer the opposition's questions. OTOH most of them have had actual experience of "work" without the advantages of nepotism and cronyism.

I certainly acknowledge that nepotism exists elsewhere (did you notice that it is frowned upon), but I was referring to PMs in particular. Here we have a PM who bought his position, followed closely by not one, but 2 with no reason for accession other than family name, and a foreign minister, MPs, a chief of police given a rocket rise through the ranks, high-ranking military officer, and more. In more enlightened parts of the world, nepotism is a dirty secret - here it is lauded.

Then consider the percentage alleged or proven to be corrupt, in a hugely wealthy family whose fortune was based on theft from the populace.

I'm not trying to defend the Shinawatra clan. Thaksin to me is an odious figure-- most of all for his actions and inactions in the Tak Bai incident (which will haunt millions of people seemingly for centuries) and for his murderous criminality during the drug crackdown. Beyond that, yes, his fortune can be said to be ill-gained. No argument. As a civic action, I particularly liked the paper-crane folding in the aftermath of Tak Bai, by the way.

My problem is with supposing that the level of his corruption is remarkable, or that this sort of thing does not happen in our native societies. It may be true that family clans are not as obvious in the West. But those who are in power have other levers to use. We have more sophisticated methods, and we are not so blatant about it, but in the background, the little wheels go round, pockets are lined, and palms are greased. Many of our politicians are bought and paid for by corporate and wealthy interests, who dodge taxes and remake laws to their liking, and to overlook this is sheer senility on our part.

We often fail to detect the mote in our own eye. If we want to look in our own backyards, there is the rotten, stinking banking industry which is threatening to bring down the entire world economy. And simultaneously waxing self-righteous while designating entire populations for austerity. And dirty business is not just in the European provinces, either. From Reuters: "Far from the innocent, upright democracy of its self-image, Britain is showing a seamy side that anti-corruption campaigners say is getting worse and may be politically explosive as society becomes more unequal due to the financial and economic crises.

"..."It is ... often a more sophisticated form of high-level political corruption. It may not be strictly illegal -- or it may be more subtle -- but that does not mean it is not very costly for society or the economy," said Kaufman... "

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/20/us-pht-newscorp-britain-corruption-idUSTRE76J25L20110720

Look up the Guardian series on the money-laundering and tax evasion in the British Virgin Islands. All very good for business, of course, while populations of developing countries pay the horrific costs.

In the US, there is the Bush dynasty, which is showing no signs of going away. I'd stack them up against the Shinawatras any time. Don't try to tell me that George Bush II earned his position, or that he is not a warmonger. In a better world, many of the West's leaders would be jailed, in my view.

That Thaksin was convicted may say more for the Thai system than we care to admit. In the aftermath of the 2008 mortage meltdown in the United States-- where banks' utter malfeasance has been documented-- not one person was indicted, much less convicted. The charge on Thaksin was a triviality, but at least some justice was accomplished.

Can we say the same for most of our native countries? My point here is to widen our frame of reference, not to exculpate any particular actor. If we think the world is going to get better by itself, we're dreaming. Citizen activity is required around the globe if we are to avoid the worst of the depths.

Edited April 17, 2013 by DeepInTheForest

[waza]

Overworked? PMs of countries with far larger area, population and economy still manage to appear in parliament to put forward policies and answer the opposition's questions. OTOH most of them have had actual experience of "work" without the advantages of nepotism and cronyism.

I certainly acknowledge that nepotism exists elsewhere (did you notice that it is frowned upon), but I was referring to PMs in particular. Here we have a PM who bought his position, followed closely by not one, but 2 with no reason for accession other than family name, and a foreign minister, MPs, a chief of police given a rocket rise through the ranks, high-ranking military officer, and more. In more enlightened parts of the world, nepotism is a dirty secret - here it is lauded.

Then consider the percentage alleged or proven to be corrupt, in a hugely wealthy family whose fortune was based on theft from the populace.

I'm not trying to defend the Shinawatra clan. Thaksin to me is an odious figure-- most of all for his actions and inactions in the Tak Bai incident (which will haunt millions of people seemingly for centuries) and for his murderous criminality during the drug crackdown. Beyond that, yes, his fortune can be said to be ill-gained. No argument. As a civic action, I particularly liked the paper-crane folding in the aftermath of Tak Bai, by the way.

My problem is with supposing that the level of his corruption is remarkable, or that this sort of thing does not happen in our native societies. It may be true that family clans are not as obvious in the West. But those who are in power have other levers to use. We have more sophisticated methods, and we are not so blatant about it, but in the background, the little wheels go round, pockets are lined, and palms are greased. Many of our politicians are bought and paid for by corporate and wealthy interests, who dodge taxes and remake laws to their liking, and to overlook this is sheer senility on our part.

We often fail to detect the mote in our own eye. If we want to look in our own backyards, there is the rotten, stinking banking industry which is threatening to bring down the entire world economy. And simultaneously waxing self-righteous while designating entire populations for austerity. And dirty business is not just in the European provinces, either. From Reuters: "Far from the innocent, upright democracy of its self-image, Britain is showing a seamy side that anti-corruption campaigners say is getting worse and may be politically explosive as society becomes more unequal due to the financial and economic crises.

"..."It is ... often a more sophisticated form of high-level political corruption. It may not be strictly illegal -- or it may be more subtle -- but that does not mean it is not very costly for society or the economy," said Kaufman... "

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/20/us-pht-newscorp-britain-corruption-idUSTRE76J25L20110720

Look up the Guardian series on the money-laundering and tax evasion in the British Virgin Islands. All very good for business, of course, while populations of developing countries pay the horrific costs.

In the US, there is the Bush dynasty, which is showing no signs of going away. I'd stack them up against the Shinawatras any time. Don't try to tell me that George Bush II earned his position, or that he is not a warmonger. In a better world, many of the West's leaders would be jailed, in my view.

That Thaksin was convicted may say more for the Thai system than we care to admit. In the aftermath of the 2008 mortage meltdown in the United States-- where banks' utter malfeasance has been documented-- not one person was indicted, much less convicted. The charge on Thaksin was a triviality, but at least some justice was accomplished.

Can we say the same for most of our native countries? My point here is to widen our frame of reference, not to exculpate any particular actor. If we think the world is going to get better by itself, we're dreaming. Citizen activity is required around the globe if we are to avoid the worst of the depths.

That may or maynot be true but what is undeniable is this is the Thaivisa forum, not the UKvisa or USAvisa forum or indeed the conspiracies r us forum and as such deals with Thai related issues.

[rubl]

Following some discussion here with interest and a bit of amazement, I think we (I?) can conclude that our dear PM once more going out of her way to help a fellow Pheu Thai member, candidate and even older sister, all in one (big one), is bordering on the legal/illegal, just like her going out of her way and returning very quickly from trips to South Korea and HK to help her (brothers) candidate for Bangkok governor. All democratically and seemlessly of course.

[DeepInTheForest]

[edited]

Can we say the same for most of our native countries? My point here is to widen our frame of reference, not to exculpate any particular actor. If we think the world is going to get better by itself, we're dreaming. Citizen activity is required around the globe if we are to avoid the worst of the depths.

That may or maynot be true but what is undeniable is this is the Thaivisa forum, not the UKvisa or USAvisa forum or indeed the conspiracies r us forum and as such deals with Thai related issues.

I thoroughly agree. This is indeed a Thailand forum. But when the narrative portrays Thailand as uniquely pathological, then some perspective is called for, and in reasoned argument counter-examples are a valid way to make a point.

It is also true that Thailand does not exist in a vacuum, and the dynamics of corruption around the globe is worthy of consideration insofar as it affects Thailand. Incidentally, I don't know where you get the "conspiracies are us" reference-- the information in the links I provided is verifiable from multiple respected sources. If you disagree, I would be happy to consider evidence to the contrary: a link, an author, a news item.

Edited April 17, 2013 by DeepInTheForest