Bangkok City Police Will Try To Avoid Arresting Or Imposing Fines On Street Vendors

[SantiSuk]

I tried to avoid arresting and taking money off the vendor, honest guv, but I just couldnt help myself. Reflex action I think.

[NCFC]

A great laugh for the morning. To the best of my knowledge, every street vendor pays off the police to operate. It would be a bit unseemly for the police to collect money from a vendor one day, and then give them the boot the next day. There must be some sort of compromise available. I sort of like street vendors, but it is damned annoying to have to walk in the street because the sidewalk is jammed with vendors...

That is actually a myth. The only ones that need to pay off the police are the ones doing something illegal. They pay a license fee that allow them to operate in a certain area.

You need to get out on the town more....

I know MANY street vendors and none of them pay the police because they are all legal .. which doesn't take much. However it does cost more to get a license to sell in areas like Sukhumvit but the only people they need to pay is the government for the license to be there ... that and often an agreement with the store they me be in front of but there is no reason to pay the police off if they are not doing anything wrong. But you are welcome to believe what you want.

Nisa is quite correct. There are small local offices where the vendors go pay their licence fees. If you could read Thai you'd know about them. For this fee the vendors usually get the use of electricity and street cleaning. Some locations the hours that the vendors may operate are fixed. Police are not paid off where everything is legal.

[rametindallas]

A great laugh for the morning. To the best of my knowledge, every street vendor pays off the police to operate. It would be a bit unseemly for the police to collect money from a vendor one day, and then give them the boot the next day. There must be some sort of compromise available. I sort of like street vendors, but it is damned annoying to have to walk in the street because the sidewalk is jammed with vendors...

That is actually a myth. The only ones that need to pay off the police are the ones doing something illegal. They pay a license fee that allow them to operate in a certain area.

You need to get out on the town more....

Nisa is correct. almost all vendors get a license from the BMA. This is why vendors are only in certain areas. As for the shops, they get revenue from vendors in front of their shops. Vendors are entrepreneurs and I support them as much as I can. I hate it when big business has a monopoly on everything. Sure, they are inconvenient sometimes but if you would notice, the opposite side of the street from the vendors is free so walk on that side if you feel impeded by vendors.

[Maestro]

...While the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) officially allows vendors to operate in some areas, they still need to be at least 10 metres away from bus stops and at least five metres from pedestrian walkways...

I suspect that with what has been translated by the journalist as "pedestrian walkways" the Deputy Governor means the entrances and exits of pedestrian overpasses, hopefully also of BTS and MRT stations.

[Thai at Heart]

...While the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) officially allows vendors to operate in some areas, they still need to be at least 10 metres away from bus stops and at least five metres from pedestrian walkways...

I suspect that with what has been translated by the journalist as "pedestrian walkways" the Deputy Governor means the entrances and exits of pedestrian overpasses, hopefully also of BTS and MRT stations.

If they have to be a given distance from a bus stop, it would be great if they had to be a given distance from the bts steps.

[NCFC]

A great laugh for the morning. To the best of my knowledge, every street vendor pays off the police to operate. It would be a bit unseemly for the police to collect money from a vendor one day, and then give them the boot the next day. There must be some sort of compromise available. I sort of like street vendors, but it is damned annoying to have to walk in the street because the sidewalk is jammed with vendors...

That is actually a myth. The only ones that need to pay off the police are the ones doing something illegal. They pay a license fee that allow them to operate in a certain area.

You need to get out on the town more....

Nisa is correct. almost all vendors get a license from the BMA. This is why vendors are only in certain areas. As for the shops, they get revenue from vendors in front of their shops. Vendors are entrepreneurs and I support them as much as I can. I hate it when big business has a monopoly on everything. Sure, they are inconvenient sometimes but if you would notice, the opposite side of the street from the vendors is free so walk on that side if you feel impeded by vendors.

Maybe some TV posters are confusing the Thai police with the Tekkasit? My friend who operates a stall has to show to the Tekkasit her receipt each day that she has paid for her pitch. If you happen to be passing perhaps you might mistakenly think the police are doing a shake-down?

And you are also correct about shops getting revenue from the vendors.

[rametindallas]

Legal vendors pay the BMA. Illegal vendors pay the BiB. Legal businesses pay taxes to the State, casinos, brothels, and other illegal businesses pay the BiB. If someone is selling porn, bootleg DVDs, counterfeit Viagra and Gucci, or operating a mobile bar, they are illegal and must pay the BiB. All those food stalls and souvenir shops selling local product are legal and have a license from the BMA. These are two distinct groups sharing the same area. I think many here are mixing the two.

[Thai at Heart]

Legal vendors pay the BMA. Illegal vendors pay the BiB. Legal businesses pay taxes to the State, casinos, brothels, and other illegal businesses pay the BiB. If someone is selling porn, bootleg DVDs, counterfeit Viagra and Gucci, or operating a mobile bar, they are illegal and must pay the BiB. All those food stalls and souvenir shops selling local product are legal and have a license from the BMA. These are two distinct groups sharing the same area. I think many here are mixing the two.

So, to who's benefit actually is it for the BMA to allow the pavements to be completely blocked?

[rametindallas]

A great laugh for the morning. To the best of my knowledge, every street vendor pays off the police to operate. It would be a bit unseemly for the police to collect money from a vendor one day, and then give them the boot the next day. There must be some sort of compromise available. I sort of like street vendors, but it is damned annoying to have to walk in the street because the sidewalk is jammed with vendors...

That is actually a myth. The only ones that need to pay off the police are the ones doing something illegal. They pay a license fee that allow them to operate in a certain area.

It's not a myth. My friend owns a small restaurant in front of his house. He is licensed for food, alcohol and even music (from Grammy - how many restaurants pay for music?). The ONLY reason he doesn't pay the police is becuase his neighbour and friend is a policeman who told the local BIB not to ask him. If this was not the case the police would simply tell him that one day, if he had some problem (break in, theft or whatever), he would be last on the priority list - if on the list at all. I'm qouting the neighbour, a policeman, so if you know more about the police than an actual poliecman...please...respond

Each soi has its own regular beat cop(s) who get to know all the business on his soi. He is somewhat of an independent contractor as he will get extra money for extra services. For example, for a fee he will prevent non-customers from parking in front of your business, check on your premises more often, let you park illegally, etc. Only a very corrupt cop tries to intimidate those he serves and the local businesses will complain to his boss if he is too abusive.

Edited April 20, 2013 by rametindallas

[ZhouZhou]

A great laugh for the morning. To the best of my knowledge, every street vendor pays off the police to operate. It would be a bit unseemly for the police to collect money from a vendor one day, and then give them the boot the next day. There must be some sort of compromise available. I sort of like street vendors, but it is damned annoying to have to walk in the street because the sidewalk is jammed with vendors...

That is actually a myth. The only ones that need to pay off the police are the ones doing something illegal. They pay a license fee that allow them to operate in a certain area.

It's not a myth. My friend owns a small restaurant in front of his house. He is licensed for food, alcohol and even music (from Grammy - how many restaurants pay for music?). The ONLY reason he doesn't pay the police is becuase his neighbour and friend is a policeman who told the local BIB not to ask him. If this was not the case the police would simply tell him that one day, if he had some problem (break in, theft or whatever), he would be last on the priority list - if on the list at all. I'm qouting the neighbour, a policeman, so if you know more about the police than an actual poliecman...please...respond

so he doesn't pay anything beside for his license. what a great example for the "myth".

[rametindallas]

Legal vendors pay the BMA. Illegal vendors pay the BiB. Legal businesses pay taxes to the State, casinos, brothels, and other illegal businesses pay the BiB. If someone is selling porn, bootleg DVDs, counterfeit Viagra and Gucci, or operating a mobile bar, they are illegal and must pay the BiB. All those food stalls and souvenir shops selling local product are legal and have a license from the BMA. These are two distinct groups sharing the same area. I think many here are mixing the two.

So, to who's benefit actually is it for the BMA to allow the pavements to be completely blocked?

The vendors and their customers (and there a lot of them). The other side of the street is free of vendors. Besides, even on lower Sukhumvit, where it is most crowded, is not 'completely' blocked; just slow going. Again, walk on the other side of the street. If these vendors were not popular they would have gone out of business years ago. Are you wanting everyone to shop exclusively at large conglomerates owned by the very rich?

[americaninbangkok]

The green boxes are for collection of tea money... and therefore "installed at the residences of MPs, senators, Bangkok councillors, Privy councillors and other important personalities". This way, the lazy corrupt SOBs won't need to travel far to collect their weekly "earnings".

[Nisa]

The only ones that need to pay off the police are the ones doing something illegal. They pay a license fee that allow them to operate in a certain area.

It's not a myth. In fact many stalls are erected illegally and have to pay the Police. My ex had a stall selling womens' clothing on Sukhumvit near Soi Nana and all the vendors paid money to the Police to operate on their patch.

There's no 'license fee', it's a bribe or tea money so the Police turn a blind eye. The Police also act as 'protection' in case something happens. Much like a organised crime racket back home.

In other words ... as I said ... the ones who are doing something illegal need to pay. If they are not paying for a street vendor license then they are without doubt operating illegally. And if as you say all the vendors pay along Soi Nana then it is illegal to sell in that area and why they pay.

Not to split hairs, but that would suggest 100% in many areas are illegal, so by definition ALL pay, in certain areas?

Of course they do if they are in an area that is not legal to be. It is not splitting hairs at all unless we want to define Street Vendors as to mean Street Vendors only in Tourist Areas. I have never seen a map of where they can and cannot operate but would imagine in tourist areas it is more limited. However this is only a small fraction of street vendors in Bangkok with most others serving people in local areas who rarely venture to malls or supermarkets and depend on these vendors. I can only guess but would imagine Sukimvit and Silom roads have limited areas and hours where street vendors can legally sell.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Nisa

[Nisa]

Legal vendors pay the BMA. Illegal vendors pay the BiB. Legal businesses pay taxes to the State, casinos, brothels, and other illegal businesses pay the BiB. If someone is selling porn, bootleg DVDs, counterfeit Viagra and Gucci, or operating a mobile bar, they are illegal and must pay the BiB. All those food stalls and souvenir shops selling local product are legal and have a license from the BMA. These are two distinct groups sharing the same area. I think many here are mixing the two.

Logic and reality may be lost on some who easily believe anything negative and jump on any chance to feel superior even if it means coming off a bit foolish and not stopping to think 5 meters from a Pedestrian Walkway probably is referring to street cross walks and not a sidewalk.

[Nisa]

If they just moved a few on, making a bit more space I would be happy. I would wager that many around silom and Sukhumvit are illegal simply because of where they are.

No idea how they figure out where it is legal and would tend to agree with you about Silom and Sukimvit except with Silom there are official government signs and advertising about the Silom street market. So, would guess at least part of Silom road is legal during some hours ... on the other hand there are vendors without question there selling illegal goods too but at least with the Video folks they do seem very concerned with the police and don't actually keep any illegal copies at the stand. Edited April 21, 2013 by Nisa

[Thai at Heart]

If they just moved a few on, making a bit more space I would be happy. I would wager that many around silom and Sukhumvit are illegal simply because of where they are.

No idea how they figure out where it is legal and would tend to agree with you about Silom and Sukimvit except with Silom there are official government signs and advertising about the Silom street market. So, would guess at least part of Silom road is legal during some hours.

I am sure there is some paper somewhere that the BMA drew up 30 years ago zoning it. Which of course makes little allowance for the fact that the commuting population today is probably 10 times higher.

[Nisa]

If they just moved a few on, making a bit more space I would be happy. I would wager that many around silom and Sukhumvit are illegal simply because of where they are.

No idea how they figure out where it is legal and would tend to agree with you about Silom and Sukimvit except with Silom there are official government signs and advertising about the Silom street market. So, would guess at least part of Silom road is legal during some hours.

I am sure there is some paper somewhere that the BMA drew up 30 years ago zoning it. Which of course makes little allowance for the fact that the commuting population today is probably 10 times higher.

That and the fact politician and other officials probably don't get out and walk too much and the people that do just accept how insane it is to walk in some areas. Pedestrians are third class citizens in Thailand behind vehicles and motorbikes which use the sidewalks too. You even see little ramps on the sidewalks, not big for wheelchairs, that are to allow motorbikes to get on the sidewalk easy. It really is sad too. How often do you see a wheelchair bound person in Bangkok? It would be near impossible for them to get around. Then if the government wants to add traffic lights they use huge i-beams on each side of the road and surround them with a concrete wall that takes up 90% of the sidewalk ... forget about them even getting rid of the banks of huge phone booths blocking sidewalks that rarely get used. So, you have to wonder if there is any thought at all put into pedestrian traffic where they allow street vendors ... of course unless it effects the area around their offices, homes and other places they may actually walk.

[Thai at Heart]

If they just moved a few on, making a bit more space I would be happy. I would wager that many around silom and Sukhumvit are illegal simply because of where they are.

No idea how they figure out where it is legal and would tend to agree with you about Silom and Sukimvit except with Silom there are official government signs and advertising about the Silom street market. So, would guess at least part of Silom road is legal during some hours.

I am sure there is some paper somewhere that the BMA drew up 30 years ago zoning it. Which of course makes little allowance for the fact that the commuting population today is probably 10 times higher.

That and the fact politician and other officials probably don't get out and walk too much and the people that do just accept how insane it is to walk in some areas. Pedestrians are third class citizens in Thailand behind vehicles and motorbikes which use the sidewalks too. You even see little ramps on the sidewalks, not big for wheelchairs, that are to allow motorbikes to get on the sidewalk easy. It really is sad too. How often do you see a wheelchair bound person in Bangkok? It would be near impossible for them to get around. Then if the government wants to add traffic lights they use huge i-beams on each side of the road and surround them with a concrete wall that takes up 90% of the sidewalk ... forget about them even getting rid of the banks of huge phone booths blocking sidewalks that rarely get used. So, you have to wonder if there is any thought at all put into pedestrian traffic where they allow street vendors ... of course unless it effects the area around their offices, homes and other places they may actually walk.

Tried a pushchair once. Gave up after 20 minutes.

I loved the snaking bicycle lane on Sukhumvit. Only in Thailand. Basically it has all gone on too long without anyone caring.

[techboy]

This article has to be lacking in crucial information. The five meters rule as stated here would be a logistical impossibility in most cases. Practically no street venders would be able to operate and how about the street markets? They would vanish.

[techboy]

...

As for 5 metres away from pedestrian walkways. Is that even possible?

Sure!, they´ll move into the streets, drive-through Pad Thai anyone?

Okay with me as long as the are serving nam-gneow or khao soi (mai sai pachi, krup).

[FarangTalk]

A great laugh for the morning. To the best of my knowledge, every street vendor pays off the police to operate. It would be a bit unseemly for the police to collect money from a vendor one day, and then give them the boot the next day. There must be some sort of compromise available. I sort of like street vendors, but it is damned annoying to have to walk in the street because the sidewalk is jammed with vendors...

That is actually a myth. The only ones that need to pay off the police are the ones doing something illegal. They pay a license fee that allow them to operate in a certain area.

It's not a myth. In fact many stalls are erected illegally and have to pay the Police. My ex had a stall selling womens' clothing on Sukhumvit near Soi Nana and all the vendors paid money to the Police to operate on their patch.

There's no 'license fee', it's a bribe or tea money so the Police turn a blind eye. The Police also act as 'protection' in case something happens. Much like a organised crime racket back home.

In other words ... as I said ... the ones who are doing something illegal need to pay. If they are not paying for a street vendor license then they are without doubt operating illegally. And if as you say all the vendors pay along Soi Nana then it is illegal to sell in that area and why they pay.

They still have to pay protection money, not to mention many of them will be paying off loan sharks, who charge ridiculous daily interest rates backed with threats of violence. The Police control all these rackets or at the very least knowingly allow them to operate.

My ex's stall was on Sukhumvit Road near Soi Nana, not on Soi Nana itself.

My point was that it is not a myth that the Police are paid off, even if a stall is 'legal'.

[Locationthailand]

A great laugh for the morning. To the best of my knowledge, every street vendor pays off the police to operate. It would be a bit unseemly for the police to collect money from a vendor one day, and then give them the boot the next day. There must be some sort of compromise available. I sort of like street vendors, but it is damned annoying to have to walk in the street because the sidewalk is jammed with vendors...

That is actually a myth. The only ones that need to pay off the police are the ones doing something illegal. They pay a license fee that allow them to operate in a certain area.

Really? Well you must not spend a lot of time on Sukhumvit. The B.i.B. must be collecting license fees weekly - I have been able to record/film them for a documentary on more than one occasion with in a month.

[retell]

A great laugh for the morning. To the best of my knowledge, every street vendor pays off the police to operate. It would be a bit unseemly for the police to collect money from a vendor one day, and then give them the boot the next day. There must be some sort of compromise available. I sort of like street vendors, but it is damned annoying to have to walk in the street because the sidewalk is jammed with vendors...

That is actually a myth. The only ones that need to pay off the police are the ones doing something illegal. They pay a license fee that allow them to operate in a certain area.

Really? Well you must not spend a lot of time on Sukhumvit. The B.i.B. must be collecting license fees weekly - I have been able to record/film them for a documentary on more than one occasion with in a month.

well that's one to put on TV youtube channel when it fiished and edited offcourse

[Nisa]

A great laugh for the morning. To the best of my knowledge, every street vendor pays off the police to operate. It would be a bit unseemly for the police to collect money from a vendor one day, and then give them the boot the next day. There must be some sort of compromise available. I sort of like street vendors, but it is damned annoying to have to walk in the street because the sidewalk is jammed with vendors...

That is actually a myth. The only ones that need to pay off the police are the ones doing something illegal. They pay a license fee that allow them to operate in a certain area.

Really? Well you must not spend a lot of time on Sukhumvit. The B.i.B. must be collecting license fees weekly - I have been able to record/film them for a documentary on more than one occasion with in a month.

You do realize that Sukhumvit vendors make up a very tiny percentage of the street vendors in Thailand but it is where you will probably find the highest concentration of ones selling illegal goods and am guessing that Sukimvit is also probably one of the most restrictive areas when it comes to areas to be able to sell legally.

But I am curious ... How much were the vendors paying the police? What quotes did you get from the officers being handed bribes or extortion money without concern out in the open? How do you know the vendors were operating legally?

And of course .... any promo clips on youtube we can check out for your upcoming documentary?

[ZhouZhou]

Tried a pushchair once. Gave up after 20 minutes.

I loved the snaking bicycle lane on Sukhumvit. Only in Thailand. Basically it has all gone on too long without anyone caring.

the bicycle lanes are also in other parts of bangkok. i love them.

they have wheelchairs everywhere in public buildings. just ask the front desk or security and the will come up with a wheelchair, don't have to carry your own inside the car.

[ZhouZhou]

A great laugh for the morning. To the best of my knowledge, every street vendor pays off the police to operate. It would be a bit unseemly for the police to collect money from a vendor one day, and then give them the boot the next day. There must be some sort of compromise available. I sort of like street vendors, but it is damned annoying to have to walk in the street because the sidewalk is jammed with vendors...

That is actually a myth. The only ones that need to pay off the police are the ones doing something illegal. They pay a license fee that allow them to operate in a certain area.

Really? Well you must not spend a lot of time on Sukhumvit. The B.i.B. must be collecting license fees weekly - I have been able to record/film them for a documentary on more than one occasion with in a month.

You do realize that Sukhumvit [/size]vendors make up a very tiny percentage of the street vendors in Thailand but it is where you will probably find the highest concentration of ones selling illegal goods and am guessing that Sukimvit is also probably one of the most restrictive areas when it comes to areas to be able to sell legally.

But I am curious ... How much were the vendors paying the police? What quotes did you get from the officers being handed bribes or extortion money without concern out in the open? How do you know the vendors were operating legally?

And of course .... any promo clips on youtube we can check out for your upcoming documentary?

probably a sob story to get a higher price from the farang tourists or born out of limited English.

"Havb to pay police money big" actually means. "yes mister, i ask for a higher price then the wholesale on bobee, because i have to feed the family and also have to pay a license fee for running my street stall here."

[ginjag]

Tried a pushchair once. Gave up after 20 minutes.

I loved the snaking bicycle lane on Sukhumvit. Only in Thailand. Basically it has all gone on too long without anyone caring.

the bicycle lanes are also in other parts of bangkok. i love them.

they have wheelchairs everywhere in public buildings. just ask the front desk or security and the will come up with a wheelchair, don't have to carry your own inside the car.

Biggest problem here is --invalid persons-Thai or otherwise trying to get about--nearly non existant...Be honest-how many do you see happily wheeling down the paths ??? no one can. as for hotels , fine But unless you have a vehicle to put the chair in--your doomed.

This applies to rural areas also, I have helped my Thai Health official to get local government to be aware of this problem, but the poor with or without wheelchairs are near housebound.

Its bad enough for tourist walking-or others because of encroachment, money talks again.

[ZhouZhou]

Tried a pushchair once. Gave up after 20 minutes.

I loved the snaking bicycle lane on Sukhumvit. Only in Thailand. Basically it has all gone on too long without anyone caring.

the bicycle lanes are also in other parts of bangkok. i love them.

they have wheelchairs everywhere in public buildings. just ask the front desk or security and the will come up with a wheelchair, don't have to carry your own inside the car.

Biggest problem here is --invalid persons-Thai or otherwise trying to get about--nearly non existant...Be honest-how many do you see happily wheeling down the paths ??? no one can. as for hotels , fine But unless you have a vehicle to put the chair in--your doomed.

This applies to rural areas also, I have helped my Thai Health official to get local government to be aware of this problem, but the poor with or without wheelchairs are near housebound.

Its bad enough for tourist walking-or others because of encroachment, money talks again.

if you need a wheelchair you cannot walk. that is everywhere in the world so.

here in thailand, if you have transport you can still can go out. government building, shopping centers tesco lotus. they all have some spare wheelchairs there for visitors in need.

will be hard to take the city bus of course.

[ginjag]

the bicycle lanes are also in other parts of bangkok. i love them.

they have wheelchairs everywhere in public buildings. just ask the front desk or security and the will come up with a wheelchair, don't have to carry your own inside the car.

Biggest problem here is --invalid persons-Thai or otherwise trying to get about--nearly non existant...Be honest-how many do you see happily wheeling down the paths ??? no one can. as for hotels , fine But unless you have a vehicle to put the chair in--your doomed.

This applies to rural areas also, I have helped my Thai Health official to get local government to be aware of this problem, but the poor with or without wheelchairs are near housebound.

Its bad enough for tourist walking-or others because of encroachment, money talks again.

if you need a wheelchair you cannot walk. that is everywhere in the world so.

here in thailand, if you have transport you can still can go out. government building, shopping centers tesco lotus. they all have some spare wheelchairs there for visitors in need.

will be hard to take the city bus of course.

My point being is 90 % of Thai invalids do NOT have transport for wheelchairs, so impossible to get around locally. Massive tourism here but the last people they think about is the walkers, and invalids. What public paths are obstructed and dangerous.

Of course it is a problem worldwise, but we are talking Thai and the topic--and law enforcement.

Edited April 21, 2013 by ginjag

[ZhouZhou]

If these threads are for real, on this one alone and they want to talk STUPID--why not have the bus stops and pedestrian walkways 10 meters from the venders ????

I see nothing stupid in that.