Should We Learn The Language?

[SteeleJoe]

There are plenty of Brits living in Spain for example,who don't speak a word of Spanish!

No doubt. Just as there are plenty of foreigners living here who don't speak Thai and I'm sure equivalent situations exist in many other countries.

I just don't think that compares to going to watch an opera without knowing Italian.

[Eesat]

Never fear,there's always the Mr Monkey Song! :

#!

[transam]

I ''can'' speak perfect Oxford English but I know Uni students that have been learning English for years YET cannot communicate with me. I have Thai friends who teach English but cannot communicate with me. I teach them over a beer.

[ABCer]

Cannot see why I have to make an effort.

Retiree, 6 years here. Why should I?

I'm pretty good at linguistics. Easily communicate in German, Italian, Spanish, Slavic and French.

I refuse to learn Thai because of their weird alphabet. No racist connotations here. The same I can say about

Hebrew, Chinese, Japanese and Arabic. I refuse to 'absorb' their Culture. I think mine is not inferior. The same goes for food.

True, I am here... But luckily this is a free country, the people are nice and friendly, most of them understand me

and I understand them in as little interaction as we have. Those close to me speak English. In case there are

difficulties - hands, fingers, drawings or nearby volunteers help. No problems. Why should I make a great effort to learn this language?

If I did, what GREAT piece of WORLD CULTURE would I be able to read in original? Bible? Ramayana? Krishna? Bhagavad-Gita?

Or maybe I am missing a great work of literature?

Let us be honest, if I did make a huge effort and learn Thai language - I would still always be a freak - farang here. So?

Why should you? Well, I gave my opinion earlier in the thread - and have done so elsewhere on this forum on occasion - as have others. In short it changes one's experience here a great deal - for the better and well beyond mere convenience or practicalities. But that doesn't mean you "should".

"Weird alphabet"? Are you being ironic? Are you honestly suggesting that their written language (or Hebrew, Chinese, Japanese and Arabic) are any more weird than the one we are using here? If you are joking it's kind of funny. If you are serious it's VERY funny.

Great piece of world culture (sic)? None. Is that the only reason to learn a language? Have you learned Chinese or Sanskrit or Latin or Arabic any number of languages in which you could read "great pieces of world culture in original"?

A freak? Perhaps. I haven't met you. But not every foreigner who lives here is a freak, regardless of any language skills or lack thereof.

SJ, this is not very nice of you. I mean getting personal. And being dishonest to boot by quoting out of context, even half of the words used.

I have used freak-farang, and like it or not you are, I am, all foreigners here are and always will be. If you don't agree, you could go to the Immigration officer and get a clarification on this issue.

If you are disagreeing with me on the question of difference between Latin/Cyrillic alphabets and Hebrew/Chinese/Japanese/Thai/Arabic/Sanskrit hieroglyphs you could try that 'freak' name on first.

"You have given your opinion" - brilliant! Is it final? Do I have to have it for main meal everyday? Pity, you are not joking...

The rest of your 'arguments' are so much in contradiction with what I said and what you are trying to articulate, that I will let it pass.

Sorry for not returning the personal insults. Being an old man it is rather hard for me to stoop down to this level.

Cheers

[Kananga]

Learn the language and free yourself from the shackles of having other people decide what part of what you say be translated for others to hear and what part others say should be translated for you to hear.

Alternatively you could just stop giving a shit about what others are saying and live in blissful ignorance. I much preferred it when I didnt have a semblance of what was being said around me.

[Ratsima]

It turns out I'm too stupid to learn Thai. After 16 years of trying and failing miserably I concluded that my time was better spent learning how to survive here without knowing the language.

[transam]

It turns out I'm too stupid to learn Thai. After 16 years of trying and failing miserably I concluded that my time was better spent learning how to survive here without knowing the language.

At last a breath of fresh air.

[SteeleJoe]

SJ, this is not very nice of you. I mean getting personal. And being dishonest to boot by quoting out of context, even half of the words used.

I have used freak-farang, and like it or not you are, I am, all foreigners here are and always will be. If you don't agree, you could go to the Immigration officer and get a clarification on this issue.

If you are disagreeing with me on the question of difference between Latin/Cyrillic alphabets and Hebrew/Chinese/Japanese/Thai/Arabic/Sanskrit hieroglyphs you could try that 'freak' name on first.

"You have given your opinion" - brilliant! Is it final? Do I have to have it for main meal everyday? Pity, you are not joking...

The rest of your 'arguments' are so much in contradiction with what I said and what you are trying to articulate, that I will let it pass.

Sorry for not returning the personal insults. Being an old man it is rather hard for me to stoop down to this level.

Cheers

I apologize for getting personal. However, to be fair, I did not say you were a "freak" - you did. I simply don't agree that all foreigners are freaks. Perhaps the word means something different to you than it does to me.

Out of context? I put your whole post there - the context is clear.

Obviously there is a difference between Latin/Cyrillic alphabets and Hebrew/Chinese/Japanese/Thai/Arabic/Sanskrit hieroglyphs - who ever suggested something so bizarre and idiotic as saying that there wasn't? Not me, clearly. What I dispute is your absurdly arbitrary designation of languages you don't know as "weird" when there is nothing objectively any more weird about them than your own.

No, my opinion is not final. You asked a question and I answered it. How is that wrong? Did I say or imply in any way that what I said was right or had to be accepted by anyone as truth? Are you unaware of what "opinion" means or does it escape you why I used that word? No, I was not joking - it is my opinion.

Please explain how the rest of my "arguments" (sic) are in contradiction with what you said and what I am trying to articulate. You obviously have every right to do so and I will gladly apologize and retract when you can show that to me.

Again, I apologize for being so offensive. I didn't realize I had, but don't let that stop you from actually rebutting me.

Edited April 23, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[metisdead]

Posts with Chinese script have been removed. We're in Thailand, I do believe this topic is about learning Thai and not Chinese.

Other off topic posts and replies have been removed as well.

[Genericnic]

Turn the question on its head. Do you expect foreigners who live in your home country as residents rather than as tourists to try and learn your language? Do you complain about those who won't?

Yes and yes.

David

[kiniyow]

Definately learn Pasa Thai to Control your destiny or Let the Thais Control your Destiny..Which is Better for your survival here?

[Radar501]

I have experienced so many positives about studying the Thai language. Some have been covered at length in this thread already.

For me, an important reason for studying this beautiful language is to keep my ageing brain alert and functioning.

There has been extensive research conducted proving that learning a new skill, such as a foreign language, delays the onset of dementia type illnesses.

and the only skill that delays the onset of old age dementia is to learn a language? give me a break man! some of us who are (like me) retired for more than two decades find that the day's 24 hours are not enough to acquire additional knowledge and use their brains to its utmost capacity.

yawwwnnnnn...

there has also been extensive research that people who present irrelevant theories in public forums...

Please revisit my post Naam. Where did I say that learning a language is the ONLY skill that delays the onset of dementia?

I am pleased that after two decades of retirement, you still have plenty of things to do.

When I reach my autumn years, I hope that Thai Visa Forum is still going. I couldn't imagine how else I would fill in my days.

yaaaaawwwwwnnn

[Kananga]

Definately learn Pasa Thai to Control your destiny or Let the Thais Control your Destiny..Which is Better for your survival here?

Controlling my density.

[phuketsub]

To those who assume that anyone from Issan is "low class" or a bar wench, you are very wrong. Issan comprises 1/3 the population of Thailand.

Issan people form the backbone of the service industry, the trades and the military. Considering that almost all of us will at some point require the services of these "low class" people, speaking some Issan dialect, even a few words, would serve one well. Many of my Thai friends are from Issan. They are not bar girls and have never been to Phuket or Pattaya, nor wish to have anything to do with those that go there. One of them is the guy that will most likely be sent in to defuse the bomb someone plants. (I reckon most of you didn't know that most of the bomb disposal personnel come from Issan.) You bet I want to be able to speak a few words to them. Next time there is a civil insurrection and you want to navigate through the army people, drop a few Issan words and you will get some help as most conscripts are Issan people. Those Issan people form the majority of the NCOs and junior officer corps as well.

Appreciably if one makes his home in the south, one of the southern dialects is appropriate. However, if one is living in Bangkok or in the north, Issan dialect comes in handy.

Make an exception for Phuket. Most of the kids here can't even speak Southern Thai, let along the unique Phuket dialect, despite the many years when Phuket was a true island, without a bridge to the mainland.

It saddens me that so many of new arrivals, especially people who come to live and work here, have no interest in Thai language whatsoever, let alone the local version of it.

But at the end of the day the loss is theirs because Thai is such a great and flexible language and the Thai people are such enthusiastic teachers of it.

My experience of trying to learn French in Quebec (after six years of school study in the states) put me off efforts to learn that language completely.

I later found, but much too late, that French people (outside Paris) are pretty cool about people trying to learn their language.

I think that much of the conflict in the Deep South is really about language more than anything else; it's a shame that this issue is never really addressed by so many successive governments and that the unique Patani Malayu is not introduced as an official second language in that part of the country.

The resulting vacuum is a bottomless pit into which far too many lives, too much misery and money have been squandered over the last decade.

Edited April 23, 2013 by phuketsub

[Mosha]

And learn to speak the right Thai.

The wrong Thai can slam doors in your face.

Yes speaking Isaan will get you nowhere down south and vice versa.

[lucjoker]

the thai language is "made " by a king ,long time ago.

that's why the language is so un-logic, the thai need 6 years of primary school just to learn the writing ,it's done by drilling it in

the still fresh emty mind of children ,dont ask them the grammar or any rules ,they dont know ,they learned it by repetition.

I have to learn the rules and exeptions and i find it exhausting.

2 people of the same family have misunderstandings because they dont really understand themselfs !

If you are a little out of tone ,they will not understand you,they dont make any effort to understand you.

I myself have tried to learn to write it ,but so unlogic i had to give up.

i live here 10 years ,understand a lot ,but speak it like a 2 year old.

My children (3 and 4) speak it fluently (they also speak english fluently) my mother languages is flemish and french,but i dont speak it any more

in thailand,i even dont learn my children to speak it .i speak 5 languages myself (as most flemish people with some schooling do ) but thai i will never speak.

[bifftastic]

i would not assume that Thais have a higher regard for farangs who speak Thai, I think for some the opposite maybe true; eg when i first came to work in Bangkok, i asked my then secretary (quite a hiso, middle aged, Thai lady) to book me some lessons in the office ; I thought i should try to have at least a basic knowlege of the language. Her reaction was why bother? everyone in the company spoke English and would prefer to speak to me in English, all the meetings were in English, anyone i would need to talk to outside the company would likely also speak English and anyone who didnt well, thats what she was for. None of her previous bosses had bothered to learn it and anyway she added "only low class foreigners speak Thai ." I ignored her advice and went ahead with the lessons though i suspect quite a few Thais would share her views, shocking though that maybe for some on this forum.

I don't find that surprising at all. There are snobby people in every country

Personally, I'm not really phased if I find a Thai person who doesn't appreciate the fact that I can speak their language. If they consider me to be 'low class' because of this, then to me, that says more about them than it does of me.

I'm glad you didn't heed her advice, as I'm sure you are too

[silent]

Which Thai language will you learn?

Southern, Issan, Central or Lanna?

City or village or Hill-tribe?

Chances of your loved one or her family speaking Central Thai as a first language are practically zero.

Speaking some backwoods dialect will do you no good at all in any city or other area of the country.

I don;'t see why you assume that all TV posters are the same as yourself. My wife is university educated, about the same age and me, and certainly not from the boondocks of Isaan or somesuch. Lao or Isaan dialect would do me no good whatsoever with the in-laws - they'd look .at me like I was mad!

to be honest, I think reading is as important as speaking. Speaking you can replace with pointing and sign language. Reading is irreplaceable.

SC

I don't have a wife or girlfriend (or partner of any kind), but I am (may be wrongly) assuming that most foreigners end up with lo-so girls.

When I meet foreigners 'partners', I'm usually appalled at their choice and make my excuses to get away as soon as I can.

(I actively avoid meeting with foreigners partners, if I can get away with it)

Funnily enough, each and every one of them claims their wife is University educated, wealthy in-laws, but the truth is usually different.

One American to another, as a rule does Mississippi have 3 S's or three K's?

[lucjoker]

To those who assume that anyone from Issan is "low class" or a bar wench, you are very wrong. Issan comprises 1/3 the population of Thailand.

Issan people form the backbone of the service industry, the trades and the military. Considering that almost all of us will at some point require the services of these "low class" people, speaking some Issan dialect, even a few words, would serve one well. Many of my Thai friends are from Issan. They are not bar girls and have never been to Phuket or Pattaya, nor wish to have anything to do with those that go there. One of them is the guy that will most likely be sent in to defuse the bomb someone plants. (I reckon most of you didn't know that most of the bomb disposal personnel come from Issan.) You bet I want to be able to speak a few words to them. Next time there is a civil insurrection and you want to navigate through the army people, drop a few Issan words and you will get some help as most conscripts are Issan people. Those Issan people form the majority of the NCOs and junior officer corps as well.

Appreciably if one makes his home in the south, one of the southern dialects is appropriate. However, if one is living in Bangkok or in the north, Issan dialect comes in handy.

Make an exception for Phuket. Most of the kids here can't even speak Southern Thai, let along the unique Phuket dialect, despite the many years when Phuket was a true island, without a bridge to the mainland.

It saddens me that so many of new arrivals, especially people who come to live and work here, have no interest in Thai language whatsoever, let alone the local version of it.

But at the end of the day the loss is theirs because Thai is such a great and flexible language and the of it.

My experience of trying to learn French in Quebec (after six years of school study in the states) put me off efforts to learn that language completely.

I later found, but much too late, that French people (outside Paris) are pretty cool about people trying to learn their language.

I think that much of the conflict in the Deep South is really about language more than anything else; it's a shame that this issue is never really addressed by so many successive governments and that the unique Patani Malayu is not introduced as an official second language in that part of the country.

The resulting vacuum is a bottomless pit into which far too many lives, too much misery and money have been squandered over the last decade.

if have to find the first enthousiastic thai teacher.

Never seen in 10 years !

probably they were teaching you words like : " darkling " "kiniauw" ,and had a good laugh with you ?

[AnotherOneAmerican]

My experience of trying to learn French in Quebec (after six years of school study in the states) put me off efforts to learn that language completely.

I later found, but much too late, that French people (outside Paris) are pretty cool about people trying to learn their language.

Completely different

Most French people are happy for you to learn their language and everyone is speaking the same words. The French are happy to correct your errors.

Many Thai people are extremely wary of foreigners learning Thai. There are many different versions using completely different words. Thai culture expressly forbids correcting other people's errors.

French, Spanish and Portuguese, very easy languages to learn, everyone helpful, many resources, many trained teachers, common script.

Thai, nobody to help, teachers very poor, resources limited, different script. Almost impossible for all except the most talented foreigners to learn.

It's exactly xactly as Lucjoker says.

Edited April 23, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[HeavyDrinker]

the thai language is "made " by a king ,long time ago.

that's why the language is so un-logic, the thai need 6 years of primary school just to learn the writing ,it's done by drilling it in

the still fresh emty mind of children ,dont ask them the grammar or any rules ,they dont know ,they learned it by repetition.

I have to learn the rules and exeptions and i find it exhausting.

2 people of the same family have misunderstandings because they dont really understand themselfs !

If you are a little out of tone ,they will not understand you,they dont make any effort to understand you.

I myself have tried to learn to write it ,but so unlogic i had to give up.

i live here 10 years ,understand a lot ,but speak it like a 2 year old.

My children (3 and 4) speak it fluently (they also speak english fluently) my mother languages is flemish and french,but i dont speak it any more

in thailand,i even dont learn my children to speak it .i speak 5 languages myself (as most flemish people with some schooling do ) but thai i will never speak.

Oh please go away...

[OldChinaHam]

Being in Thailand and not making a commitment to learn to Speak and Read Thai is an utter waste of a wonderful opportunity. Probably you do not need to learn to write, but Speaking and Reading is a must.

Also, learning another language provides a great deal of pleasure. There are many who would love the opportunity to learn Thai in the native environment who cannot afford the time or the money. So Don't Waste It.

Learn Thai and

FLAUNT IT!

[lucjoker]

the thai language is "made " by a king ,long time ago.

that's why the language is so un-logic, the thai need 6 years of primary school just to learn the writing ,it's done by drilling it in

the still fresh emty mind of children ,dont ask them the grammar or any rules ,they dont know ,they learned it by repetition.

I have to learn the rules and exeptions and i find it exhausting.

2 people of the same family have misunderstandings because they dont really understand themselfs !

If you are a little out of tone ,they will not understand you,they dont make any effort to understand you.

I myself have tried to learn to write it ,but so unlogic i had to give up.

i live here 10 years ,understand a lot ,but speak it like a 2 year old.

My children (3 and 4) speak it fluently (they also speak english fluently) my mother languages is flemish and french,but i dont speak it any more

in thailand,i even dont learn my children to speak it .i speak 5 languages myself (as most flemish people with some schooling do ) but thai i will never speak.

Oh please go away...

i saw your drunk face on facebook ?

[useclothnotplastic]

People say that Thai is hard language, as if this is reason not to learn it - English is one of the hardest languages in the world I hear, yet large portions of the non english based world learn it.

People say, well which Thai dialect do you mean? This also doesn't matter - whatever one is relevant to where you are, and who you are hanging out with - the one your wife or g/f speaks seems logical, if you have one.

I'm a falang with a falang spouse, so we could easily not learn Thai - and to be honest, we may never be fluent, but heck ya I'm trying! Plus, it is a daily deeper understanding of the culture I am living in - why wouldn't people want this? Plus, it just seems like the polite thing to do. And I hear all of you saying the Thais don't like us to speak Thai, but this has not once been my experience. I get nothing but positive responses to my efforts.

[Dr Wanchai]

Thai language being a tonal language is difficult for Westerners, but I found that most asians learn to speak it fairly fluently.

I suppose because most asian languages are tonal as well so they have an ear for it.

I may be wrong.

[sms747]

Tried learning it for 18 years still very basic so gave up. Nobody can understand what I say apart for the mrs anyway, tones are still a mystery to me and I cannot identify them at all. So I thought why torture myself and feel guilty about living somewhere that I can't speak the language of. As long as I can get about, order stuff and so on that will do me. I really don't want to talk to Thais about food, football or their mia nois!

Edited April 23, 2013 by sms747

[candypants]

Italian Opera.

Many of the traditional operas were sung in Neapolitan, so most Italians (and everyone else) can't understand the language, but they still attend.

I assume you are joking and not comparing watching or listening to an opera for a couple hours - and passively enjoying the way it sounds plus knowing the story from copious amounts of available summaries etc - to living much of one's daily life surrounded by people speaking a language you don't understand and with whom your interaction would very often be to one degree or another limited.

It would be a ridiculous analogy if you were serious.

There are plenty of Brits living in Spain for example,who don't speak a word of Spanish!

and i think you might find that the majority on thi board who think it pointless, or claim they are unable to learn thai are brits as well.

[Genericnic]

Cannot see why I have to make an effort. Retiree, 6 years here. Why should I?I'm pretty good at linguistics. Easily communicate in German, Italian, Spanish, Slavic and French.I refuse to learn Thai because of their weird alphabet. No racist connotations here. The same I can say about Hebrew, Chinese, Japanese and Arabic. I refuse to 'absorb' their Culture. I think mine is not inferior. The same goes for food. True, I am here... But luckily this is a free country, the people are nice and friendly, most of them understand me and I understand them in as little interaction as we have. Those close to me speak English. In case there aredifficulties - hands, fingers, drawings or nearby volunteers help. No problems. Why should I make a great effort to learn this language? If I did, what GREAT piece of WORLD CULTURE would I be able to read in original? Bible? Ramayana? Krishna? Bhagavad-Gita? Or maybe I am missing a great work of literature? Let us be honest, if I did make a huge effort and learn Thai language - I would still always be a freak - farang here. So? Good point. If I were 65 years old I might not learn. But then again, I could still live until say 75 and I think I'd be looking for things to do, surrounded by people that speak a language I don't understand. Learning a new language would keep my brain active. I know too many old guys who have gone out to pasture in Isarn to die in their 50s!If you are retired can't you find say 1/2 an hour a day to learn Thai? Would it be too hard to learn 1 word a day? What are you scared of - failure, making a fool of yourself? If it's not fear, it must be something else.

I was 61 when I moved here and the first thing I did was enroll in a beginning Thai class. Will I ever be fluent? Unlikely but that is no excuse for not making the effort. Can learning Thai be difficult? Sure but most of the really great things in life come easily. And, of course, there is the recent study that showed learning a second (or maybe a 3rd) is good for the brain.

Did I mention I am heading to Turkey in September and am already learning some Turkish?

David

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Italian Opera.

Many of the traditional operas were sung in Neapolitan, so most Italians (and everyone else) can't understand the language, but they still attend.

I assume you are joking and not comparing watching or listening to an opera for a couple hours - and passively enjoying the way it sounds plus knowing the story from copious amounts of available summaries etc - to living much of one's daily life surrounded by people speaking a language you don't understand and with whom your interaction would very often be to one degree or another limited.

It would be a ridiculous analogy if you were serious.

There are plenty of Brits living in Spain for example,who don't speak a word of Spanish!

and i think you might find that the majority on thi board who think it pointless, or claim they are unable to learn thai are brits as well.

I know three foreigners who can speak Thai (beyond the trivial level), one is British, one is Swedish, one is American.

I know many foreigners.

Edited April 23, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[poanoi]

Not needed from some principal PoV when we need to report every 3rd month and apply anew every year,

but it is handy in certain circumstances, such as when hiring a handyman/mechanic/etc being able to

explain what i want done