Seriously Fascinating Article About Gut Bacteria Link To Obesity

[h90]

JT,

I think both is true:

1 ) If you eat too much, you get fat, simply question of calorie intake and will power.

2 ) The things are much more complex than this. The much more complex situation does not make 1 ) invalid, it just makes the difference between easily holding your wait, and complete torture yourself and feeling bad, just to hold it.

2a ) And of course all the fat one invent reasons why it isn't their fault.....Eating junk all the day and tell it is the hormones, bacteria, genes, society, Industry prices...whatever.

While on the other hand, people who never had a problem...just eat what the want....claim moral superiority and will power.

Thing is to take a step back, consider things without feelings. Remember that it is your problem and what some bystander think about it isn't important.

Point is 1 ) is true, but by educate yourself, you can make it difficult or easy, but still it needs a lot will power and of course it is not fair.

[Jingthing]

Yet again, science already KNOWS for a fact that will power alone is not effective for the vast majority of obese people to become normal weight people for the long term. There is really no controversy about that. So obese people who wish to solve this problem and I can assure you most do, are understandably looking for HELP to boost their natural will power to increase their personal ODDS. I think it is logical to think there is great promise in a gut bacteria based HELPER that makes things potentially MUCH EASIER. Yes, obesity is complex and no just taking ANY pill alone won't be the solution, it needs to be in combination of conscious effort and knowledge from the patient. I reckon we're talking maybe 10 years though for a commercial product like this, if even that soon.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Jingthing

[h90]

Yet again, science already KNOWS for a fact that will power alone is not effective for the vast majority of obese people to become normal weight people for the long term. There is really no controversy about that. So obese people who wish to solve this problem and I can assure you most do, are understandably looking for HELP to boost their natural will power to increase their personal ODDS. I think it is logical to think there is great promise in a gut bacteria based HELPER that makes things potentially MUCH EASIER. Yes, obesity is complex and no just taking ANY pill alone won't be the solution, it needs to be in combination of conscious effort and knowledge from the patient. I reckon we're talking maybe 10 years though for a commercial product like this, if even that soon.

No, you are wrong. Will power is enough, just most people don't have enough of it. Telling people, and that also counts for stop smoking, that they can't do it, because anyway they are too weak for it and need some professional help (magic tablets) is terrible de-motivating.

If you tell someone day and night that he can't do it, than really he won't be able, specially because it is hard.

At the end it is us, who put the chocolate into our mouth or not, no one can relieve us from that responsibility, if accepting that fact many can find the will power. If getting told all the time, that we are helpless slaves of our stomach, hormones or addiction will make it more difficult.

Every little help makes it easier and increases the chances to success, but if someone doesn't stand 100 % behind it, it won't help.

[Jingthing]

We'll have to disagree about whether will power alone works for most obese people to solve their problem LONG TERM. I think anyone who seriously looks into this from a scientific POV instead of a MORALITY POV will come to the same conclusion that I do. You are also, in my view unfairly PROJECTING negative meanings upon these scientific realities that do not exist. To realize the piss poor success rates of will power only methods is by no means the same thing as rejecting will power as a very important aspect of ANY effort people may make to solve ANY problem, including obesity.

What I do find really annoying on this forum, is that you can't discuss ANYTHING other than will power without getting morality lectures. I'm sorry but again science knows that morality lectures have not stopped the global obesity pandemic and they NEVER will.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Jingthing

[robblok]

We'll have to disagree about whether will power alone works for most obese people to solve their problem LONG TERM. I think anyone who seriously looks into this from a scientific POV instead of a MORALITY POV will come to the same conclusion that I do. You are also, in my view unfairly PROJECTING negative meanings upon these scientific realities that do not exist. To realize the piss poor success rates of will power only methods is by no means the same thing as rejecting will power as a very important aspect of ANY effort people may make to solve ANY problem, including obesity.

 

What I do find really annoying on this forum, is that you can't discuss ANYTHING other than will power without getting morality lectures. I'm sorry but again science knows that morality lectures have not stopped the global obesity pandemic and they NEVER will. 

Actually he has a real good point by constantly being told its something out of the subjects control its setting him up to fail there are many scientific books written about this. Its a accepted theory and also scientific but it is not what you want to hear.

Willpower alone wont always help you, im now on A holiday with my famely and watch my dad and brother who are overweight dad maybe obese (real big gut) eating and drinking a lot and it makes it hard on me to keep on program ( also psychology). Sometimes the best thing is not getting in certain situations. Not buying chocolate so when you get cravings it is not there or make sure you are not always in restaurants like i am now.

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[h90]

We'll have to disagree about whether will power alone works for most obese people to solve their problem LONG TERM. I think anyone who seriously looks into this from a scientific POV instead of a MORALITY POV will come to the same conclusion that I do. You are also, in my view unfairly PROJECTING negative meanings upon these scientific realities that do not exist. To realize the piss poor success rates of will power only methods is by no means the same thing as rejecting will power as a very important aspect of ANY effort people may make to solve ANY problem, including obesity.

What I do find really annoying on this forum, is that you can't discuss ANYTHING other than will power without getting morality lectures. I'm sorry but again science knows that morality lectures have not stopped the global obesity pandemic and they NEVER will.

Actually he has a real good point by constantly being told its something out of the subjects control its setting him up to fail there are many scientific books written about this. Its a accepted theory and also scientific but it is not what you want to hear.

Willpower alone wont always help you, im now on A holiday with my famely and watch my dad and brother who are overweight dad maybe obese (real big gut) eating and drinking a lot and it makes it hard on me to keep on program ( also psychology). Sometimes the best thing is not getting in certain situations. Not buying chocolate so when you get cravings it is not there or make sure you are not always in restaurants like i am now.

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To add: studies made by people in the medical business finding out that you need to buy something from them is hardly surprising.

Counting fat customer of them every year and finding out that they are still fat is from the method faulty.

It does not consider people who never went to a doctor and reduced their fat on their own, but there are the people who won with discipline.

Or counting you and me, people who would be fat, if they wouldn't correct themself day by day.

So they are only counting the people who complete failed and get the conclusion that no one has a chance unless buying expensive medication.

It is not my intention to insult someone. It boils down to: The fat ask the slim how to get slim. The slim tells "eat less" and the fat fells insulted.

For any reason unknown to me it isn't political correct to state the obvious. 30 years ago the mother told the fat daughter "don't eat so much", today it is something super difficult that needs people studied at university.

Positive thinking is the way, telling people come on you CAN do it it. It is hard no question, but YES it is possible.

Not: you can't help it anyway, being fat is god given disease and only with 1000s of dollar magic treatment you have a remote chance. And surely it isn't about what you eat.

My mother battled all her live with overweight. With 60, she had way too high blood pressure. No way around medication. She went to a private doctor and asked him if it wouldn't be possible without eating tablets. If for example she loose massive weight and exercise every day. Doctor told: theoretically yes. But women in her age always give up and can never do it, so point is it does not work.

That made my mother so angry that she mobilized enough will power to do it...now over 10 years. And she never again went to any doctor, so of course the doctor still believes it isn't possible.

Robblok: While I also eat too much on such events when there is delicious food on the table and everyone digs in happily, it also helps me in the longer range.

I am looking these friends of mine....remember them when they were slimmer and think: "do I want to be as fat as them?"

Again: I don't want to insult someone, but eating less is a proofed concept to get slimmer. And the traditional way is to overcome hunger with will-power. And yes it isn't easy.

[Jingthing]

The topic is about gut bacteria.

The trite tired morality lectures we can get anywhere and everywhere.

They have nothing to do with the topic -- gut bacteria.

If nobody has anything on point to add that actually relates to the GUT BACTERIA angle, that's perfectly fine. Then the thread just fades naturally. But does each and every thread on this fatty forum have to devolve to exactly the same PREACHING, even when the preaching does not relate to the specific topic?

It's not like all of us have not already heard the same PREACHING thousands of times even before reading this forum.

Edited November 23, 2013 by Jingthing

[robblok]

The topic is about gut bacteria. 

The trite tired morality lectures we can get anywhere and everywhere.

They have nothing to do with the topic -- gut bacteria.

 

If nobody has anything on point to add that actually relates to the GUT BACTERIA angle, that's perfectly fine. Then the thread just fades naturally. But does each and every thread on this fatty forum have to devolve to exactly the same PREACHING, even when the preaching does not relate to the specific topic? 

 

It's not like all of us have not already heard the same PREACHING thousands of times even before reading this forum. 

Refreshing to try to counter our scientific facts about mentally setting people up to fail. Its so out of character of you to really try to counter arguments that don't fit your ideas. Normally you just ignore them because they are roo hard to count. Well don Jt.

Oh.. Sorry you did what you usually did i must have been dreaming.

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[Jingthing]

Dude, we've already been down this same road so many times. Why the need to make almost every thread about the SAME thing even if it has NOTHING to do what that thing (morality, will power, preaching)? I happen to be interested in a lot of the science related to obesity. We're all well aware of the MORALITY meme. That's a given, it washes over the daily psychological experience of fat people all over the world every day. Does it really belong on EVERY thread related to obesity? I think not.

Edited November 23, 2013 by Jingthing

[robblok]

Dude, we've already been down this same road so many times. Why the need to make almost every thread about the SAME thing even if it has NOTHING to do what that thing (morality, will power, preaching)? I happen to be interested in a lot of the science related to obesity. We're all well aware of the MORALITY meme. That's a given, it washes over the daily psychological experience of fat people all over the world every day.  Does it really belong on EVERY thread related to obesity? I think not. 

Because you constantly want us to accept that its out of control of obese people and only a magic pill will help. The moment i counter your proof and telling you its counter productive and setting people up to fail )also scientific as its proven that negativity leads to failure and blaming everything but the person himself is counter productive.

Oh i obese i cant help it i got the wrong gut bacteria so i should not even try... Ok lets take an other pizza.

Thing is people can do it but not if they are bombarded with reasons why its impossible.

My biggest problem with you is that you only believe what you want and when others come with proof you just ignore it.

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[Jingthing]

Please focus on the topic which here is gut bacteria rather than personal attacks.

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[robblok]

Please focus on the topic which here is gut bacteria rather than personal attacks.

Sent from my GT-S5360B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I posted a good link about gut bacteria here and read enough about it so far its not tested with people but with mice. It is also far from clear how much of a difference this stuff makes. Having said that i take kefir a lot as a probiotic.

All those things JT make changes but nothing really major, though an extra 10% burn would add up over the years but i wonder if people would not start eating more. But all those things still wont allow for a meal a day extra as its highly unlikely they find anything non dangerous that would add 25% extra burn.

Even stuff like t3 (pure thyroid hormone) gives 5% and clenbuterol also around 5% both are harsh, then you have DNP that is even harsher but ads 40% burn but at considerable discomfort and other stuff.

So for something that is totally safe i would not count for a 25% extra burn. I hope to be proven wrong as it would help many people. But on the other hand it might encourage overeating and unhealthy lifestyle knowing it can be easily burned off.

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[h90]

Please focus on the topic which here is gut bacteria rather than personal attacks.

Sent from my GT-S5360B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I posted a good link about gut bacteria here and read enough about it so far its not tested with people but with mice. It is also far from clear how much of a difference this stuff makes. Having said that i take kefir a lot as a probiotic.

All those things JT make changes but nothing really major, though an extra 10% burn would add up over the years but i wonder if people would not start eating more. But all those things still wont allow for a meal a day extra as its highly unlikely they find anything non dangerous that would add 25% extra burn.

Even stuff like t3 (pure thyroid hormone) gives 5% and clenbuterol also around 5% both are harsh, then you have DNP that is even harsher but ads 40% burn but at considerable discomfort and other stuff.

So for something that is totally safe i would not count for a 25% extra burn. I hope to be proven wrong as it would help many people. But on the other hand it might encourage overeating and unhealthy lifestyle knowing it can be easily burned off.

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I recall a couple of years ago the bodybuilder had something that increased fat burn (so they told). They told you in winter (in Europe) with the TShirt because you generate so much heat.

I have absolute no idea if it is true or not. And don't know if these hardcore people are still alive or if the liver gave them already the red flag.

[Jingthing]

There is actually no proof whatsoever that adding probiotic foods in your diet is effective in changing the overall nature of your gut bacteria environment in a way that would impact on obesity issues. Not saying you shouldn't do it but the benefit is really questionable as far as current research.

There is evidence changing from a meat based diet to a vegetarian based diet DOES change the gut bacteria environment. There is strong evidence the vegetarian gut bacteria profiles are (ESPECIALLY in men) less likely to develop serious diseases, I think particularly heart related. I think you can see there is a POSSIBLE but not definite yet connection there with obesity as of course obesity is linked to heart disease. Fat people desire to be normal weight for many reasons, including cosmetic and social of course, but just not getting heart attacks is certainly of interest to many.

What is NOT yet known is HOW LONG you need to go on a veggie diet to change your gut bacteria significantly and how much that varies across individuals. Is it two days, is it a year, we don't know at least we don't know for people in GENERAL. Is shifting to a LIMITED meat diet especially limited red meat also going to help a lot in that shift, or not? We don't know. These are the very early days in the scientific study of gut bacteria and this area is really very promising, not only for fighting obesity, but preventing diseases in general.

Personally I am trying to limit my red meat intake but if I KNEW for a fact doing so (just limiting, not cutting) and also eating fish and chicken would have a major positive impact on my gut bacteria profile I would be even more motivated to do it. I would even consider cutting out ALL red meat if I knew that would really help. So I wish we knew more now, but we don't.

For those that CAN commit to a 100 percent veggie diet (I don't feel that I can really) that is actually something you can do NOW to have a good chance of changing your gut bacteria to a beneficial profile especially beneficial to men. If you just go veggie, it will probably happen but you won't know when. If not helping fight obesity at least it will help overall health, and that ain't chopped liver.

The concept/potential for the FUTURE of a gut bacteria pill might mean people can get the benefits of the healthier gut bacteria profile WITHOUT committing to a veggie diet. Whether or not that's going to be a major helper in long term obesity solutions for mass populations, this is of course not anywhere near a known thing.

As far as testing our gut bacteria profiles medically and getting a meaningful analysis of it, does anyone have any info about this? Cost, availability, even possibility in Thailand?

My guess is the research on all this is so new that doing personal testing probably wouldn't be worth it unless you were hooked up to an active research study on the subject.

Edited November 23, 2013 by Jingthing

[h90]

What I can remember in the dusty old areas of my brain......

The flora in your intestine always adjust to what you eat. If you say only eat meat and than switch to vegetables the flora switches. Both the existing bacteria change as well these who are better for living on veggis grow faster. At the end the zoo in your intestine is different.

Another thing I learned...not sure how it is related: there are 3 different kind of flora. If you test people they belong to one of these groups (and I think no matter what you eat). The produced gases differ...actually the amount of H2, CO2 and CH3.

But I forgot all the details about that.......

[robblok]

 

Please focus on the topic which here is gut bacteria rather than personal attacks.

Sent from my GT-S5360B using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I posted a good link about gut bacteria here and read enough about it so far its not tested with people but with mice. It is also far from clear how much of a difference this stuff makes. Having said that i take kefir a lot as a probiotic.

All those things JT make changes but nothing really major, though an extra 10% burn would add up over the years but i wonder if people would not start eating more. But all those things still wont allow for a meal a day extra as its highly unlikely they find anything non dangerous that would add 25% extra burn.

Even stuff like t3 (pure thyroid hormone) gives 5% and clenbuterol also around 5% both are harsh, then you have DNP that is even harsher but ads 40% burn but at considerable discomfort and other stuff.

So for something that is totally safe i would not count for a 25% extra burn. I hope to be proven wrong as it would help many people. But on the other hand it might encourage overeating and unhealthy lifestyle knowing it can be easily burned off.

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I recall a couple of years ago the bodybuilder had something that increased fat burn (so they told). They told you in winter (in Europe) with the TShirt because you generate so much heat.

I have absolute no idea if it is true or not. And don't know if these hardcore people are still alive or if the liver gave them already the red flag.

 

That is DNP the stuff is real and it works. Many people in the UK use it and i think it can be done safely others might disagree. But as with all drugs there are risks and idiots that mess it up.

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[robblok]

There is actually no proof whatsoever that adding probiotic foods in your diet is effective in changing the overall nature of your gut bacteria environment in a way that would impact on obesity issues. Not saying you shouldn't do it but the benefit is really questionable as far as current research. 

 

There is evidence changing from a meat based diet to a vegetarian based diet DOES change the gut bacteria environment. There is strong evidence the vegetarian gut bacteria profiles are (ESPECIALLY in men) less likely to develop serious diseases, I think particularly heart related. I think you can see there is a POSSIBLE but not definite yet connection there with obesity as of course obesity is linked to heart disease. Fat people desire to be normal weight for many reasons, including cosmetic and social of course, but just not getting heart attacks is certainly of interest to many. 

 

What is NOT yet known is HOW LONG you need to go on a veggie diet to change your gut bacteria significantly and how much that varies across individuals. Is it two days, is it a year, we don't know at least we don't know for people in GENERAL. Is shifting to a LIMITED meat diet especially limited red meat also going to help a lot in that shift, or not? We don't know. These are the very early days in the scientific study of gut bacteria and this area is really very promising, not only for fighting obesity, but preventing diseases in general.

 

Personally I am trying to limit my red meat intake but if I KNEW for a fact doing so (just limiting, not cutting) and also eating fish and chicken would have a major positive impact on my gut bacteria profile I would be even more motivated to do it. I would even consider cutting out ALL red meat if I knew that would really help.  So I wish we knew more now, but we don't. 

 

For those that CAN commit to a 100 percent veggie diet (I don't feel that I can really) that is actually something you can do NOW to have a good chance of changing your gut bacteria to a beneficial profile especially beneficial to men.  If you just go veggie, it will probably happen but you won't know when. If not helping fight obesity at least it will help overall health, and that ain't chopped liver. 

 

The concept/potential for the FUTURE of a gut bacteria pill might mean people can get the benefits of the healthier gut bacteria profile WITHOUT committing to a veggie diet. Whether or not that's going to be a major helper in long term obesity solutions for mass populations, this is of course not anywhere near a known thing. 

 

As far as testing our gut bacteria profiles medically and getting a meaningful analysis of it, does anyone have any info about this? Cost, availability, even possibility in Thailand? 

 

My guess is the research on all this is so new that doing personal testing probably wouldn't be worth it unless you were hooked up to an active research study on the subject. 

 

No meat.... Not for me.

As for your remark on kefir and other pro biotics im thinking along the same lines.

In my opinion what would really help if they could take the appetite suppression element from meth / yabaa and copy it people can go a whole day without food then. Not saying they should, but it would make it easier to eat less.

I think the way of eating less ( appetite suppressant ) is a better one as burning more because it would be far easier and in my opinion safer as what i have seen its harder to burn more then to eat less.

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[h90]

There is actually no proof whatsoever that adding probiotic foods in your diet is effective in changing the overall nature of your gut bacteria environment in a way that would impact on obesity issues. Not saying you shouldn't do it but the benefit is really questionable as far as current research.

There is evidence changing from a meat based diet to a vegetarian based diet DOES change the gut bacteria environment. There is strong evidence the vegetarian gut bacteria profiles are (ESPECIALLY in men) less likely to develop serious diseases, I think particularly heart related. I think you can see there is a POSSIBLE but not definite yet connection there with obesity as of course obesity is linked to heart disease. Fat people desire to be normal weight for many reasons, including cosmetic and social of course, but just not getting heart attacks is certainly of interest to many.

What is NOT yet known is HOW LONG you need to go on a veggie diet to change your gut bacteria significantly and how much that varies across individuals. Is it two days, is it a year, we don't know at least we don't know for people in GENERAL. Is shifting to a LIMITED meat diet especially limited red meat also going to help a lot in that shift, or not? We don't know. These are the very early days in the scientific study of gut bacteria and this area is really very promising, not only for fighting obesity, but preventing diseases in general.

Personally I am trying to limit my red meat intake but if I KNEW for a fact doing so (just limiting, not cutting) and also eating fish and chicken would have a major positive impact on my gut bacteria profile I would be even more motivated to do it. I would even consider cutting out ALL red meat if I knew that would really help. So I wish we knew more now, but we don't.

For those that CAN commit to a 100 percent veggie diet (I don't feel that I can really) that is actually something you can do NOW to have a good chance of changing your gut bacteria to a beneficial profile especially beneficial to men. If you just go veggie, it will probably happen but you won't know when. If not helping fight obesity at least it will help overall health, and that ain't chopped liver.

The concept/potential for the FUTURE of a gut bacteria pill might mean people can get the benefits of the healthier gut bacteria profile WITHOUT committing to a veggie diet. Whether or not that's going to be a major helper in long term obesity solutions for mass populations, this is of course not anywhere near a known thing.

As far as testing our gut bacteria profiles medically and getting a meaningful analysis of it, does anyone have any info about this? Cost, availability, even possibility in Thailand?

My guess is the research on all this is so new that doing personal testing probably wouldn't be worth it unless you were hooked up to an active research study on the subject.

No meat.... Not for me.

As for your remark on kefir and other pro biotics im thinking along the same lines.

In my opinion what would really help if they could take the appetite suppression element from meth / yabaa and copy it people can go a whole day without food then. Not saying they should, but it would make it easier to eat less.

I think the way of eating less ( appetite suppressant ) is a better one as burning more because it would be far easier and in my opinion safer as what i have seen its harder to burn more then to eat less.

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there are a lot women in Thailand who started with yabaa just to get slim. I think it does not only suppress appetite, it also makes you burn much more. Technically it gives you the turbo. Therefor the easy mental addiction and therefor the long time user are that burned out. It is like giving a normal engine a large turbo and drive it full speed.....short time...no problem.....long term, even if nothing breaks everything is complete worn out. And as with the engine, it uses a lot more gasoline.

[Jingthing]

No meat.... Not for me.

...

Do you mean no meat at all? Like no poultry or fish as well? I guess you are eating some dairy. I could easily cut out red meat entirely but poultry and fish/seafood would be really hard. For dairy I only eat yogurt (daily) and parm cheese, tiny amounts occasionally. Milk disgusts me.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Jingthing

[Tolley]

Another thing to consider with your food intake is that the body will crave what it isnt getting so people who have unbalanced diets or who are deficient in nutrients may end up eating the wrong type of food by mistaking the cravings for general hunger pains.

Thus putting on weight by continuing eating but not eating what the body is really craving.

Poor digestion may also be a factor here as well.

[chiang mai]

Another thing to consider with your food intake is that the body will crave what it isnt getting so people who have unbalanced diets or who are deficient in nutrients may end up eating the wrong type of food by mistaking the cravings for general hunger pains.

Thus putting on weight by continuing eating but not eating what the body is really craving.

Poor digestion may also be a factor here as well.

How to know or find out what it's really craving, that's the massive key for me currently, any clues anyone?

[Jingthing]

My understanding is that our bodies are largely composed of BACTERIA so the pattern of your personal bacteria is what you are largely feeding when you eat. (The ratio of bacteria to human cells is 10:1. ) So who or what is "hungry" exactly, whatever "you" is or your bacteria? Different patterns of bacteria would tend to be "hungry" for different types of food. The waste products from the meat diet pattern of bacteria, that is the waste from the bacteria not you, is now known to be detrimental to health (your health, the bacteria are having a field day!). To look at the gut bacteria area as only a matter of "burn rate" seems a massively simplistic and short sighted way to look at the potential of this area of biological research. It is already clear there is more to it than that. Another example where those who want to boil everything about obesity down to simple math are really missing the bigger picture. Obesity issues are not only about weight gain and weight loss. They are related to overall HEALTH. I think there is a pattern here, food choices and behaviors that are beneficial to general health of ANYONE are generally ALSO something the obese should be looking at as well, to adopt for a lifetime.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Jingthing

[robblok]

No meat.... Not for me....

 

Do you mean no meat at all? Like no poultry or fish as well? I guess you are eating some dairy. I could easily cut out red meat entirely but poultry and fish/seafood would be really hard. For dairy I only eat yogurt (daily) and parm cheese, tiny amounts occasionally. Milk disgusts me. 

I mean it would be too hard not to eat meat. Red meat i almost never eat ( or is red meat beef if so i sometimes eat it but well done)

No fish could be done, i mainly eat chicken nothing else.

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[robblok]

My understanding is that our bodies are largely composed of BACTERIA so the pattern of your personal bacteria is what you are largely feeding when you eat. (The ratio of bacteria to human cells is 10:1. ) So who or what is "hungry" exactly, whatever "you" is or your bacteria? Different patterns of bacteria would tend to be "hungry" for different types of food. The waste products from the meat diet pattern of bacteria, that is the waste from the bacteria not you, is now known to be detrimental to health (your health, the bacteria are having a field day!). To look at the gut bacteria area as only a matter of "burn rate" seems a massively simplistic and short sighted way to look at the potential of this area of biological research. It is already clear there is more to it than that. Another example where those who want to boil everything about obesity down to simple math are really missing the bigger picture. Obesity issues are not only about weight gain and weight loss. They are related to overall HEALTH. I think there is a pattern here, food choices and behaviors that are beneficial to general health of ANYONE are generally ALSO something the obese should be looking at as well, to adopt for a lifetime. 

I don't only look at burn rate also health but we were discussing obesity so that was the context i looked in. But appetite control might be even more important.

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[Jingthing]

I am hoping future research sheds light on possible benefits (or not) for bacteria profiles by more limited meat cutting. Yes beef is red meat of course.

[Jingthing]

I don't only look at burn rate also health but we were discussing obesity so that was the context i looked in. But appetite control might be even more important.

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You still didn't actually get my point but perhaps some other readers did ...

[h90]

My understanding is that our bodies are largely composed of BACTERIA so the pattern of your personal bacteria is what you are largely feeding when you eat. (The ratio of bacteria to human cells is 10:1. ) So who or what is "hungry" exactly, whatever "you" is or your bacteria? Different patterns of bacteria would tend to be "hungry" for different types of food. The waste products from the meat diet pattern of bacteria, that is the waste from the bacteria not you, is now known to be detrimental to health (your health, the bacteria are having a field day!). To look at the gut bacteria area as only a matter of "burn rate" seems a massively simplistic and short sighted way to look at the potential of this area of biological research. It is already clear there is more to it than that. Another example where those who want to boil everything about obesity down to simple math are really missing the bigger picture. Obesity issues are not only about weight gain and weight loss. They are related to overall HEALTH. I think there is a pattern here, food choices and behaviors that are beneficial to general health of ANYONE are generally ALSO something the obese should be looking at as well, to adopt for a lifetime.

No you are terrible wrong. But I am not sure if I can explain it right.

Very simplified version:

We developed from some bacterias who built clusters. they got the problem with energy management and took other bacterias inside. Mitochondria, we still have severals per cell. They are specialized and transferred only from the mother to the child and they don't change.

When we got bigger we got other problems, so we took some outside surface inside, Later the lung continued to be just a sack inside, while for the food it got established that the intact and excrement part is separate (most probably this version attracted more of the other sex by less smell from their mouth).

both both lung, stomach and guts are body outside.

Later bacteria settled in the guts. We give them food, they give us nutrition which we couldn't extract.

But they are OUTSIDE our body and react to what we give them. Difficult after a lot antibiotics.

But non inside our body, as long as the defense is OK. Guts and lungs and nearby areas are defended in a way that let look the North to South Korean border like an empty park.

[Jingthing]

Wrong or right, scientists now know some interesting things about different patterns of gut bacteria for different people. There is a certain pattern prevalent in obese people. Chicken and egg questions of course (did the obesity cause the pattern or vice versa. etc.), but there are clues this could be/will be a very ripe area of exploitation for learning more about obesity and PROBABLY treating it more effectively from a medical POV. Yes this could mean billions and billions of dollars in profits for these industries but the fat fighting industry is already a mega-business, and their solutions are really really CRAPPY as far as actual long term results. The current business model is based more on predicted failure than success with a lifetime pool of repeat clients.

I don't pretend to be a scientist, biologist, or doctor, but you don't really need to be to see in the news about gut bacteria research that this is probably the most promising area of research for medical treatment of obesity going.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Jingthing

[h90]

Wrong or right, scientists now know some interesting things about different patterns of gut bacteria for different people. There is a certain pattern prevalent in obese people. Chicken and egg questions of course (did the obesity cause the pattern or vice versa. etc.), but there are clues this could be/will be a very ripe area of exploitation for learning more about obesity and PROBABLY treating it more effectively from a medical POV. Yes this could mean billions and billions of dollars in profits for these industries but the fat fighting industry is already a mega-business, and their solutions are really really CRAPPY as far as actual long term results. The current business model is based more on predicted failure than success with a lifetime pool of repeat clients.

I don't pretend to be a scientist, biologist, or doctor, but you don't really need to be to see in the news about gut bacteria research that this is probably the most promising area of research for medical treatment of obesity going.

I had in a biotechnology book a long article about a scientist, who stopped eating for a long time (can't recall how long) and he measured all kind of changes in his body + explained it scientific correct but in a very entertaining way. Unfortunately I don't have the book here.

Alone the knowledge what problems happen and what the body is doing to counter them in the switch from sugar burning to burning ketone bodies made out of fat is so amazing that you really want to try it out when you read it.

[Jingthing]

Some background on BACTERIA in (and on) the human body. The relevant area of course -- THE GUT.

You may think of yourself as human, but 90 percent of the cells in your body are actually bacterial. These gut microbes do everything from digesting otherwise indigestible fibers to guiding the development of the immune system to altering your metabolism.
...
Most of the human microbiota lives in the warm, moist confines of the gut.

...
The brain/gut biome feedback loop isn't just about hunger and energy regulation hormones.

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/04/bacteria-in-human-body

Another poster seemed to scold me for being way off base about the idea that the nature of our GUT BACTERIA may strongly influence our appetite and particular cravings, but actually these theories are an important part of the more recent (and exciting) research in this field. I'm not suggesting all is definitively known yet about this area. The opposite actually.

More studies are needed before we can establish how important gut flora is compared to other factors in regulating our appetite. The emerging evidence in this field will have a definite impact on how we think about obesity, gut flora, dietary regime and behaviour. It’s really exciting to think that we can change the composition of our gut flora and thereby alter our appetite and food preferences!

http://gutflora.com/?p=1212

Edited November 25, 2013 by Jingthing