Seriously Fascinating Article About Gut Bacteria Link To Obesity

[Jingthing]

The story of the link between gut bacteria and weight control issues marches on!

Bacterial waste makes you feel fuller for longer

It may not sound very appetising, but an edible powder made from waste excreted by bacteria in our guts may help people to avoid gaining weight

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn26698-bacterial-waste-makes-you-feel-fuller-for-longer.html?cmpid=RSS|NSNS|2012-GLOBAL|online-news#.VI8zcdKUe9q

Eating less helps to avoid gaining weight not some magic powder (which most probable costs a lot).

This thread is about gut bacteria.

I consider a post like yours OFF TOPIC and indeed a kind of heckling.

If you don't have a response related to GUT BACTERIA, please do not respond.

[h90]

The story of the link between gut bacteria and weight control issues marches on!

Bacterial waste makes you feel fuller for longer

It may not sound very appetising, but an edible powder made from waste excreted by bacteria in our guts may help people to avoid gaining weight

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn26698-bacterial-waste-makes-you-feel-fuller-for-longer.html?cmpid=RSS|NSNS|2012-GLOBAL|online-news#.VI8zcdKUe9q

Eating less helps to avoid gaining weight not some magic powder (which most probable costs a lot).

This thread is about gut bacteria.

I consider a post like yours OFF TOPIC and indeed a kind of heckling.

If you don't have a response related to GUT BACTERIA, please do not respond.

OK, related to Gut Bacteria: Some waste excreted by bacteria won't help you reducing your weight. It only distracts from the only thing that helps, eating less and exercise. You don't gain weight because of your gut bacteria, which might be a bit more efficient with some people (which is good) than with others. You gain weight because you eat too much of the wrong things. The solution is no supplement from some industry which rip of fat people by giving them wrong hope, the solution is discipline when eating.

[Jingthing]

Some of us are interested in scientific research that has the potential of helping people with their weight control issues. Yes of course portion control, choice of food control, and exercise is very helpful but the fact remains that the obesity epidemic has become global and keeps expanding. There are complex reasons for that and no, it is not a simple matter or math and morality. It is much more complex than that.

I will continue to post new information about research related to gut bacteria because I am convinced this is going to become a very important tool in fighting the global obesity epidemic.

If that doesn't interest everybody, that's fine.

Personally, I would bet the house that within 10 years or maybe 20 developments in gut bacteria therapy are going to have a major impact in fighting global obesity.

[h90]

Some of us are interested in scientific research that has the potential of helping people with their weight control issues. Yes of course portion control, choice of food control, and exercise is very helpful but the fact remains that the obesity epidemic has become global and keeps expanding. There are complex reasons for that and no, it is not a simple matter or math and morality. It is much more complex than that.

I will continue to post new information about research related to gut bacteria because I am convinced this is going to become a very important tool in fighting the global obesity epidemic.

If that doesn't interest everybody, that's fine.

Personally, I would bet the house that within 10 years or maybe 20 developments in gut bacteria therapy are going to have a major impact in fighting global obesity.

No it is not complex, it comes from way too much sugar and fat in the convenience food. With some details that makes it worse, like fructose, like tricks that make people eat more than they should.

40 years ago there were almost no obesity where I come from and people had exactly the same gut bacteria as they have now. But there was no McDonalds, women cooked themself and the food in restaurant was the same as self made.

No bacterial therapy will safe us from Coke, Pizza Hut, McDonalds and the Microwave Pizza. I have no idea how that can be fought in the society without dictatorship. Children who grew up with this food, have it extreme hard to change later, but the government can't remove the children from their parents.

[cdmtdm]

previous epidemics like ,the plague , spanish flu, aids, cholera are nothing compared to the current and ever growing rates of diabetes, heart disease , obesity ...and its only the beginning , watch the numbers climb as generation after generation fall victim to poor diet .... gut health is paramount in our day to day lives ....

[Jingthing]

I am not suggesting future gut bacteria therapies which I am certain are coming are going to be an anti-obesity panacea. Rather probably a powerful tool among many. We pretty much all agree that sugar and processed foods are a huge issue.

As many might know, I favor aggressive actions from governments to force industry to change processed food formulations and also more radical LABELING policies. To even begin to reverse the obesity epidemic (or at least greatly PREVENT the growth of it) a number of tactics will be needed. Not one. Many.

THIS THREAD is about the GUT BACTERIA part of that.

Other threads other things.

Is that so hard to digest?

[singa-traz]

A kick in the butt once in a while, would certainly make those gut bacteria more active :-)

[Wrong Turn]

I eat yoghurt with no sugar every day. One small packet fỏ the probiotics.

Evidence isfai

[EmptyHead]

I blame my wife.

[Jingthing]

I eat yoghurt with no sugar every day. One small packet fỏ the probiotics.

Evidence isfai

That's good and probably helpful but the potential of gut bacteria therapy is much greater than simply eating certain foods.

But we're not there yet as far as a mass market thing. Ideally, therapies will be targeted to people's specific bacteria situation to be more efficient. A similar trend in cancer treatment ... treatments become very individualized based on specific biological information about each individual.

I also eat live bacteria yogurt almost daily and also kimchi (but not everyday).

[h90]

I blame my wife.

cooking too good?

[cdmtdm]

anyone using a quality probiotic here in Thailand , one that can be purchased at a store somewhere ?

[Jingthing]

More new research here directly related to the rich vein of linking our personal gut bacteria profiles and how we deal with foods we eat.

As noted in this article, we're all different, and what works for you may not work for your Aunt Gladys.

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/jun/10/personalised-diets-diabetes-obesity-heart-disease-microbes-microbiomes

The project challenges the idea that general recommendations about healthy foods are suitable for everyone, and instead aims to produce optimised diets based on people’s unique biological make-up.

[h90]

More new research here directly related to the rich vein of linking our personal gut bacteria profiles and how we deal with foods we eat.

As noted in this article, we're all different, and what works for you may not work for your Aunt Gladys.

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/jun/10/personalised-diets-diabetes-obesity-heart-disease-microbes-microbiomes

The project challenges the idea that general recommendations about healthy foods are suitable for everyone, and instead aims to produce optimised diets based on people’s unique biological make-up.

The first posting on that webpage tells it all:

"mollyp08

I always thought that the problem of being overweight was simply due to eating too much.

Or am I missing something?"

[Jingthing]

Gut bacteria -- the final frontier?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/28/magazine/can-the-bacteria-in-your-gut-explain-your-mood.html?_r=0

Since 2007, when scientists announced plans for a Human Microbiome Project to catalog the micro-organisms living in our body, the profound appreciation for the influence of such organisms has grown rapidly with each passing year. Bacteria in the gut produce vitamins and break down our food; their presence or absence has been linked to obesity, inflammatory bowel disease and the toxic side effects of prescription drugs. Biologists now believe that much of what makes us human depends on microbial activity. The two million unique bacterial genes found in each human microbiome can make the 23,000 genes in our cells seem paltry, almost negligible, by comparison. ‘‘It has enormous implications for the sense of self,’’ Tom Insel, the director of the National Institute of Mental Health, told me. ‘‘We are, at least from the standpoint of DNA, more microbial than human. That’s a phenomenal insight and one that we have to take seriously when we think about human development.’’

__

Please note: I have had the user h90 on ignore for a very long time (for obvious reasons). He knows that but just letting others know why I never respond to any of this posts.

[faraday]

Been interested in all this for some time now, there's alot of evidence that supports the claims that the Microbes in the Digestive Tract affect the Brain.

Here's an interesting study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21303428

Way too many Doctors in the West just dismiss the use of Pro/Prebiotics & etc, & maintain it's all some kind of Sorcery.

[robblok]

Gut bacteria -- the final frontier?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/28/magazine/can-the-bacteria-in-your-gut-explain-your-mood.html?_r=0

Since 2007, when scientists announced plans for a Human Microbiome Project to catalog the micro-organisms living in our body, the profound appreciation for the influence of such organisms has grown rapidly with each passing year. Bacteria in the gut produce vitamins and break down our food; their presence or absence has been linked to obesity, inflammatory bowel disease and the toxic side effects of prescription drugs. Biologists now believe that much of what makes us human depends on microbial activity. The two million unique bacterial genes found in each human microbiome can make the 23,000 genes in our cells seem paltry, almost negligible, by comparison. ‘‘It has enormous implications for the sense of self,’’ Tom Insel, the director of the National Institute of Mental Health, told me. ‘‘We are, at least from the standpoint of DNA, more microbial than human. That’s a phenomenal insight and one that we have to take seriously when we think about human development.’’

__

Please note: I have had the user h90 on ignore for a very long time (for obvious reasons). He knows that but just letting others know why I never respond to any of this posts.

Speculation on my side but antibiotics kill bacteria.. so once you have done it you loose many of those bacteria. But they seem to come back again so it mainly comes from what you eat. So one should be able to influence this yourself.

I hope that the kefir and the juiced vegetables that i take are helping me build the right bacteria. I don't believe that gut bacteria are going to help massively but they would play a role just a few % in MBR. But still a few percent over a year ads up.

I found the Ghrelin discovery that is linked to appetite more interesting as eating less works always much better as trying to burn it. But even so I doubt there will be discoveries that would allow us to eat a lot of bad food and still stay slim.

In my quest for weight-loss I have tried many substances and all would just give a few more percent of burn, I doubt it will be much different with this.

Just my opinion, does not mean its not interesting I just don't expect miracles. I lost my weight and kept it off for 4 years now. I think one more year and I am in the small group of people who are successful.

It just comes down to limiting yourself.

[h90]

Gut bacteria -- the final frontier?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/28/magazine/can-the-bacteria-in-your-gut-explain-your-mood.html?_r=0

Since 2007, when scientists announced plans for a Human Microbiome Project to catalog the micro-organisms living in our body, the profound appreciation for the influence of such organisms has grown rapidly with each passing year. Bacteria in the gut produce vitamins and break down our food; their presence or absence has been linked to obesity, inflammatory bowel disease and the toxic side effects of prescription drugs. Biologists now believe that much of what makes us human depends on microbial activity. The two million unique bacterial genes found in each human microbiome can make the 23,000 genes in our cells seem paltry, almost negligible, by comparison. ‘‘It has enormous implications for the sense of self,’’ Tom Insel, the director of the National Institute of Mental Health, told me. ‘‘We are, at least from the standpoint of DNA, more microbial than human. That’s a phenomenal insight and one that we have to take seriously when we think about human development.’’

__

Please note: I have had the user h90 on ignore for a very long time (for obvious reasons). He knows that but just letting others know why I never respond to any of this posts.

Speculation on my side but antibiotics kill bacteria.. so once you have done it you loose many of those bacteria. But they seem to come back again so it mainly comes from what you eat. So one should be able to influence this yourself.

I hope that the kefir and the juiced vegetables that i take are helping me build the right bacteria. I don't believe that gut bacteria are going to help massively but they would play a role just a few % in MBR. But still a few percent over a year ads up.

I found the Ghrelin discovery that is linked to appetite more interesting as eating less works always much better as trying to burn it. But even so I doubt there will be discoveries that would allow us to eat a lot of bad food and still stay slim.

In my quest for weight-loss I have tried many substances and all would just give a few more percent of burn, I doubt it will be much different with this.

Just my opinion, does not mean its not interesting I just don't expect miracles. I lost my weight and kept it off for 4 years now. I think one more year and I am in the small group of people who are successful.

It just comes down to limiting yourself.

I had once antibiotics who killed just about everything in the guts. Doc told everything comes back within 10 days as there is still enough alive to get it running again.

And of course the right bacteria would be these who work most efficient. They squeeze a few more calories out of your food and transport it very slow into the blood. (exactly the opposite of fast carbohydrates). So of course they also help against getting hunger and eating less.

Well as long as your target isn't to eat as much as possible without getting fat (like some other people here) efficient gut bacteria are positive.

I think the successful group isn't small, just they are not as vocal as the unsuccessful. Like my parents who lost some weight, they did it, hold it but don't speak about it day and night. Only people who are obsessed with it and unsuccessful make a big topic out of it.

[Jingthing]

I haven't seen anything recently about specific progress towards a mass clinical treatment (and prevention) of obesity therapy for the masses.

However, that's clearly a strong possibility down the road some years from now.

So this made me think.

Considering the FACT that mainstream modern science now considers there is a link between gut bacteria profiles and obesity and considering it is a mainstream scientific opinion that in the future there will be clinical treatments using gut bacteria (from feces) to both PREVENT and treat obesity, doesn't it follow that obesity really IS a disease?

I know when the American medical establishment officially declared obesity a disease that there was a lot of pushback that is was all about greedy financial interests (insurance reimbursement, etc.). Personally I thought those criticisms had some validity, but imagine a time, perhaps 10 years from now, when children are monitored for gut bacteria profile, TREATED with other gut bacteria if the current profile was obesity promoting, to PREVENT development of obesity, and those already obese could be effectively treated as well to REVERSE the obesity to at least a some degree in a good percentage of cases. Now IF that happens and it's not a big stretch to think it probably will all happen, exactly like that, then doesn't that end the debate forever whether obesity is a disease or not? It's a very undesirable condition, aesthetically, socially, and for heath risks for other disease, it's got biological markers (gut bacteria profiles) and very likely it will be preventable and treatable with a biologically based therapy (feces). Sure sounds like a "real" disease to me! Is there a A LOT of money in all these quite probable clinically based preventions and treatments? You bet there is. Billions and billions. So what? Does that mean a disease won't be prevented and treated?

[robblok]

I haven't seen anything recently about specific progress towards a mass clinical treatment (and prevention) of obesity therapy for the masses.

However, that's clearly a strong possibility down the road some years from now.

So this made me think.

Considering the FACT that mainstream modern science now considers there is a link between gut bacteria profiles and obesity and considering it is a mainstream scientific opinion that in the future there will be clinical treatments using gut bacteria (from feces) to both PREVENT and treat obesity, doesn't it follow that obesity really IS a disease?

I know when the American medical establishment officially declared obesity a disease that there was a lot of pushback that is was all about greedy financial interests (insurance reimbursement, etc.). Personally I thought those criticisms had some validity, but imagine a time, perhaps 10 years from now, when children are monitored for gut bacteria profile, TREATED with other gut bacteria if the current profile was obesity promoting, to PREVENT development of obesity, and those already obese could be effectively treated as well to REVERSE the obesity to at least a some degree in a good percentage of cases. Now IF that happens and it's not a big stretch to think it probably will all happen, exactly like that, then doesn't that end the debate forever whether obesity is a disease or not? It's a very undesirable condition, aesthetically, socially, and for heath risks for other disease, it's got biological markers (gut bacteria profiles) and very likely it will be preventable and treatable with a biologically based therapy (feces). Sure sounds like a "real" disease to me! Is there a A LOT of money in all these quite probable clinically based preventions and treatments? You bet there is. Billions and billions. So what? Does that mean a disease won't be prevented and treated?

Still not a disease IMHO because one can grow the right bacteria when eating the right foods. Problem is that many overweight people have bad eating habits preventing them from it. That is self inflicted and not a disease. Disease is something you have no control over and can hit everyone. Would you call not having the right gene a disease.. I think not.. this is no different. Lets call less intelligent people sick because they lack something others have. You can go on and on and on calling everything a disease then.

But I do agree its a step forward if they can use this to help people. I still think disease should be reserved for things that are really a disease and not obesity people might become complacent and adapt the attitude.. how can I help it its sick its out of my hands. Its an attitude you often see with people who don't want to change.

Also labeling it with disease would of course help greedy doctors making a buck.

[Jingthing]

Rob ... your statement that obese people with the gut bacteria profiles associated with obesity can change their gut bacteria profiles to those not associated with obesity by changing their food intake is incorrect. I suspect you just made up that fiction. The potential here is to actually effect such a change via a medical therapy as in introduction of the more beneficial bacteria from feces.

As far as the controversy about labeling obesity a disease or not I think there are very strong pros and cons on that question. Perhaps worth a separate thread just on that. However the self inflicted argument is ridiculous. Lung cancer is often self inflicted by smoking. Does that mean it isn't a disease? Absurd.

[Jingthing]

If anyone is interested in a dedicated THREAD about the topic of is obesity a disease or not (as is currently running on the alcoholism related subforum), perhaps they would like to START such a thread. I didn't intend for THIS thread to be about that. This thread is about GUT BACTERIA.

The disease question would be an interesting discussion ... SOMEWHERE ELSE. So if you want such a discussion, by all means start the thread. (I won't start that myself.)

[robblok]

Rob ... your statement that obese people with the gut bacteria profiles associated with obesity can change their gut bacteria profiles to those not associated with obesity by changing their food intake is incorrect. I suspect you just made up that fiction. The potential here is to actually effect such a change via a medical therapy as in introduction of the more beneficial bacteria from feces.

As far as the controversy about labeling obesity a disease or not I think there are very strong pros and cons on that question. Perhaps worth a separate thread just on that. However the self inflicted argument is ridiculous. Lung cancer is often self inflicted by smoking. Does that mean it isn't a disease? Absurd.

Good point about lung cancer... indeed self inflicted.. but can't be healed by stopping smoking or smoking less.. obesity on the other hand can. But your right it might not have been the best description. But the fact that you acknowledge the fact that it has pro's and con's is good enough.

I though that one could change its gut bacteria profile by eating stuff as kimchi.. certain vegetables.. what I have read is that gut bacteria changes because of what you eat. If that is not true why would anyone consume pro biotics ? As I recall you also consume them and I also consume them (kefir) if it would not have any effect on my gut bacteria I certainly would not take it.

The research that I have read is that gut bacteria is different because of food intake you see it as a static thing. I guess a transplant and not changing the root cause (bad diet) would be easier for some. I am all for making things easier (I would take tablets to enhance fat burning and have tried it so I see no moral problems with it though one could argue in a world where there is hunger enable ling people to eat far more as intended is bad. But I am not one of those people arguing that.)

[Jingthing]

Again , if you had bothered to read this thread you would already know that eating probiotic food does not have the same effect as fecal gut bacteria. It doesn't. Why do people eat probiotics? Because they think it might help. It might help. It might not. But again, please let us deal with the FACTS here, eating kimchi is NOT going to change an obesity related gut bacteria profile into one that isn't. Fecal transplants almost definitely WILL BE able to do that.

Dude, with you it seems everything needs to be a black and white thing. Real life usually isn't like that. On that note, research so far is indicating that even when gut bacteria fecal therapy is on offer to clinically treat obesity, the patient will probably STILL need to eat the PROPER FOODS to make it actually work. So you get this now? Not black and white. Not "easy" vs. "hard". Something that has a better chance of WORKING for MORE PEOPLE! Yes people can lose and weight and maintain that weight loss with obesity related gut bacteria profiles ... but their chances of relapse are going to be very high. We know that based on basic statistics (FACTS) that are easily available to all.

The POTENTIAL (no, science isn't there yet but likely it WILL BE in some years) is that with fecal based bacteria obese patients combining that therapy ALONG WITH behavioral changes in diet will have a much better chance of being able to lose weight and keep it off. Not all of them, more of them, and the ones who can't make behavioral changes will likely either still fail or not succeed as well. Again, no magic bullets, but stuff that can HELP.

There is ALREADY a medical therapy that has a high degree of effectiveness in treating obesity. Not a cure, but high rate of improvement and the improvement sticking. That is BARIATRIC SURGERY. Yes, too expensive and drastic for most people so usually reserved for more serious cases.

A concern I do have about the potential of the fecal based gut bacteria therapies which appear to be definitely coming is the COST factor. I'm sure they can fix the "gross" factor somehow but consider the product is human sourced and needs screening for diseases, etc. etc. I reckon it ain't going to be cheap. That would really suck if this is developed and it really works well, and then most people can't get access to it. A very possible scenario.

[robblok]

Again , if you had bothered to read this thread you would already know that eating probiotic food does not have the same effect as fecal gut bacteria. It doesn't. Why do people eat probiotics? Because they think it might help. It might help. It might not. But again, please let us deal with the FACTS here, eating kimchi is NOT going to change an obesity related gut bacteria profile into one that isn't. Fecal transplants almost definitely WILL BE able to do that.

Dude, with you it seems everything needs to be a black and white thing. Real life usually isn't like that. On that note, research so far is indicating that even when gut bacteria fecal therapy is on offer to clinically treat obesity, the patient will probably STILL need to eat the PROPER FOODS to make it actually work. So you get this now? Not black and white. Not "easy" vs. "hard". Something that has a better chance of WORKING for MORE PEOPLE! Yes people can lose and weight and maintain that weight loss with obesity related gut bacteria profiles ... but their chances of relapse are going to be very high. We know that based on basic statistics (FACTS) that are easily available to all.

The POTENTIAL (no, science isn't there yet but likely it WILL BE in some years) is that with fecal based bacteria obese patients combining that therapy ALONG WITH behavioral changes in diet will have a much better chance of being able to lose weight and keep it off. Not all of them, more of them, and the ones who can't make behavioral changes will likely either still fail or not succeed as well. Again, no magic bullets, but stuff that can HELP.

There is ALREADY a medical therapy that has a high degree of effectiveness in treating obesity. Not a cure, but high rate of improvement and the improvement sticking. That is BARIATRIC SURGERY. Yes, too expensive and drastic for most people so usually reserved for more serious cases.

A concern I do have about the potential of the fecal based gut bacteria therapies which appear to be definitely coming is the COST factor. I'm sure they can fix the "gross" factor somehow but consider the product is human sourced and needs screening for diseases, etc. etc. I reckon it ain't going to be cheap. That would really suck if this is developed and it really works well, and then most people can't get access to it. A very possible scenario.

Again dude.. nothing has been proven and you act like it has. Your jumping the gun as always. First you state it will .. later you tone back with he potential (first definitely.. then you tone down to potential 555).. Your as bad as me and keep accusing me of things you do two.. two measures JT one for JT and one for Rob.. Funny guy.

Nope nothing is black and white but you love to blame outside factors for your own problems while I accept I am at least partly responsible and can improve on myself. Seems you hate own responsibility and love outside factors.

That is how i read your post.. now if you dare (you seem to dare me and ask others to do things all the time). How many percent do you think is own responsibility vs outside factors. Like do you think that eating less and healthier will still not help an obese person because his gut bacteria.. genes and all other things are against him.. or do you think it will help but would be a bit harder on him as a normal person.

I am going for option 2 stating that every obese person (without real medical problems) can at least by eating health and changing his lifestyle go from obese to overweight. So that is their own responsibility.

[Jingthing]

Again , if you had bothered to read this thread you would already know that eating probiotic food does not have the same effect as fecal gut bacteria. It doesn't. Why do people eat probiotics? Because they think it might help. It might help. It might not. But again, please let us deal with the FACTS here, eating kimchi is NOT going to change an obesity related gut bacteria profile into one that isn't. Fecal transplants almost definitely WILL BE able to do that.

Dude, with you it seems everything needs to be a black and white thing. Real life usually isn't like that. On that note, research so far is indicating that even when gut bacteria fecal therapy is on offer to clinically treat obesity, the patient will probably STILL need to eat the PROPER FOODS to make it actually work. So you get this now? Not black and white. Not "easy" vs. "hard". Something that has a better chance of WORKING for MORE PEOPLE! Yes people can lose and weight and maintain that weight loss with obesity related gut bacteria profiles ... but their chances of relapse are going to be very high. We know that based on basic statistics (FACTS) that are easily available to all.

The POTENTIAL (no, science isn't there yet but likely it WILL BE in some years) is that with fecal based bacteria obese patients combining that therapy ALONG WITH behavioral changes in diet will have a much better chance of being able to lose weight and keep it off. Not all of them, more of them, and the ones who can't make behavioral changes will likely either still fail or not succeed as well. Again, no magic bullets, but stuff that can HELP.

There is ALREADY a medical therapy that has a high degree of effectiveness in treating obesity. Not a cure, but high rate of improvement and the improvement sticking. That is BARIATRIC SURGERY. Yes, too expensive and drastic for most people so usually reserved for more serious cases.

A concern I do have about the potential of the fecal based gut bacteria therapies which appear to be definitely coming is the COST factor. I'm sure they can fix the "gross" factor somehow but consider the product is human sourced and needs screening for diseases, etc. etc. I reckon it ain't going to be cheap. That would really suck if this is developed and it really works well, and then most people can't get access to it. A very possible scenario.

Again dude.. nothing has been proven and you act like it has. Your jumping the gun as always. First you state it will .. later you tone back with he potential (first definitely.. then you tone down to potential 555).. Your as bad as me and keep accusing me of things you do two.. two measures JT one for JT and one for Rob.. Funny guy.

Nope nothing is black and white but you love to blame outside factors for your own problems while I accept I am at least partly responsible and can improve on myself. Seems you hate own responsibility and love outside factors.

That is how i read your post.. now if you dare (you seem to dare me and ask others to do things all the time). How many percent do you think is own responsibility vs outside factors. Like do you think that eating less and healthier will still not help an obese person because his gut bacteria.. genes and all other things are against him.. or do you think it will help but would be a bit harder on him as a normal person.

I am going for option 2 stating that every obese person (without real medical problems) can at least by eating health and changing his lifestyle go from obese to overweight. So that is their own responsibility.

Speak your own opinions please. You do not have my permission to grossly and falsely distort my POV as you have done so many times here over the years. Baiting me with moronic questions about percentages that are totally off topic here but all about your personal attack agenda are not on.

The topic is about gut bacteria. If you can redo the post and stick to gut bacteria please do.

[Jingthing]

Speaking of GUT BACTERIA!

Well, that's what this thread is all about.

The link between GUT BACTERIA and health including it's relation to OBESITY (which is a HEALTH matter).

Well, here's more fascinating information.

It focuses on how gut bacteria needs to EAT!
Yes when you feed your face, your gut bacteria (whatever you have) is looking to EAT too!

So you've got to feed the good gut bacteria the RIGHT STUFF. (If you have the good stuff anyway.)

This article is more general but does mention the OBESITY connection.

Research in the entire gut bacteria field is a work in progress. However it's clear to me GUT BACTERIA is going to be among the biggest HEALTH stories of this century (as the research advances).

I suggest that it's worth a read:

http://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/01/fiber-gut-bacteria-microbiome/423903/

Low-Fiber Diets Cause Waves of Extinction in the Gut

Over generations, mice deprived of fiber permanently lost some species of gut microbes. What does this mean for human health?

These changes parallel those that have taken place over the course of human history. Many studies have now shown that the gut microbiomes of Western city-dwellers are less diverse than those of rural villagers and hunter-gatherers, who eat more plants and thus more fiber. The Stanford researchers’ experiment hints (but doesn't confirm) that this low diversity could be a lasting legacy of industrialization, in which successive generations of low-fiber meals have led to the loss of old bacterial companions. “The data we present also hint that further deterioration of the Western microbiota is possible,” the team writes.

...

Second, there’s evidence that a diverse microbiome can better resist invasive species like Salmonella or Clostridium difficile, while low diversity is a common feature of obesity, inflammatory bowel disease, and other conditions.

[robblok]

Again , if you had bothered to read this thread you would already know that eating probiotic food does not have the same effect as fecal gut bacteria. It doesn't. Why do people eat probiotics? Because they think it might help. It might help. It might not. But again, please let us deal with the FACTS here, eating kimchi is NOT going to change an obesity related gut bacteria profile into one that isn't. Fecal transplants almost definitely WILL BE able to do that.

Dude, with you it seems everything needs to be a black and white thing. Real life usually isn't like that. On that note, research so far is indicating that even when gut bacteria fecal therapy is on offer to clinically treat obesity, the patient will probably STILL need to eat the PROPER FOODS to make it actually work. So you get this now? Not black and white. Not "easy" vs. "hard". Something that has a better chance of WORKING for MORE PEOPLE! Yes people can lose and weight and maintain that weight loss with obesity related gut bacteria profiles ... but their chances of relapse are going to be very high. We know that based on basic statistics (FACTS) that are easily available to all.

The POTENTIAL (no, science isn't there yet but likely it WILL BE in some years) is that with fecal based bacteria obese patients combining that therapy ALONG WITH behavioral changes in diet will have a much better chance of being able to lose weight and keep it off. Not all of them, more of them, and the ones who can't make behavioral changes will likely either still fail or not succeed as well. Again, no magic bullets, but stuff that can HELP.

There is ALREADY a medical therapy that has a high degree of effectiveness in treating obesity. Not a cure, but high rate of improvement and the improvement sticking. That is BARIATRIC SURGERY. Yes, too expensive and drastic for most people so usually reserved for more serious cases.

A concern I do have about the potential of the fecal based gut bacteria therapies which appear to be definitely coming is the COST factor. I'm sure they can fix the "gross" factor somehow but consider the product is human sourced and needs screening for diseases, etc. etc. I reckon it ain't going to be cheap. That would really suck if this is developed and it really works well, and then most people can't get access to it. A very possible scenario.

Again dude.. nothing has been proven and you act like it has. Your jumping the gun as always. First you state it will .. later you tone back with he potential (first definitely.. then you tone down to potential 555).. Your as bad as me and keep accusing me of things you do two.. two measures JT one for JT and one for Rob.. Funny guy.

Nope nothing is black and white but you love to blame outside factors for your own problems while I accept I am at least partly responsible and can improve on myself. Seems you hate own responsibility and love outside factors.

That is how i read your post.. now if you dare (you seem to dare me and ask others to do things all the time). How many percent do you think is own responsibility vs outside factors. Like do you think that eating less and healthier will still not help an obese person because his gut bacteria.. genes and all other things are against him.. or do you think it will help but would be a bit harder on him as a normal person.

I am going for option 2 stating that every obese person (without real medical problems) can at least by eating health and changing his lifestyle go from obese to overweight. So that is their own responsibility.

Speak your own opinions please. You do not have my permission to grossly and falsely distort my POV as you have done so many times here over the years. Baiting me with moronic questions about percentages that are totally off topic here but all about your personal attack agenda are not on.

The topic is about gut bacteria. If you can redo the post and stick to gut bacteria please do.

Ah an other.. i can tell other posters what to do but when they ask me something I ignore it.

Fact is that gut bacteria respond to what one eats.. otherwise probiotica would not work.. and guess what they do.. so switching obese to an other diet would help them too. Of course that is not as sexy as a pill and requires more effort. Doctors love pills.. they can sell them they can put intellectual property on them and sell them at huge prices, diet changes on the other hand......

Would you expect a researcher who wants to make money on his invention saying.. yes it can be done by a change of diet (no money in it for him) or just a pill is viable.. I guess you just read what you want to read..

I let you do the math.

[Jingthing]

Rob. Anyone who actually reads the many articles I have posted knows there is a lot more to this gut bacteria health issue than probiotica. But you got your post in promoting that specious simple minded assertion. I ask readers to ignore such agenda and personal attack driven noise and actually look deeper in the subject matter content here. That is if they're interested the subject matter of this topic. Which is not compulsory.

[singa-traz]

Rob. Anyone who actually reads the many articles I have posted knows there is a lot more to this gut bacteria health issue than probiotica. But you got your post in promoting that specious simple minded assertion. I ask readers to ignore such agenda and personal attack driven noise and actually look deeper in the subject matter content here. That is if they're interested the subject matter of this topic. Which is not compulsory.

"specious simple minded"

If you expect/want forum members to respect you, stop insulting people.