Seriously Fascinating Article About Gut Bacteria Link To Obesity

[Jingthing]

Rob. Anyone who actually reads the many articles I have posted knows there is a lot more to this gut bacteria health issue than probiotica. But you got your post in promoting that specious simple minded assertion. I ask readers to ignore such agenda and personal attack driven noise and actually look deeper in the subject matter content here. That is if they're interested the subject matter of this topic. Which is not compulsory.

"specious simple minded"

If you expect/want forum members to respect you, stop insulting people.

That is my honest estimation of the level of his argument. I don't need to waste my time with long responses to points that show the writer hasn't even begun to digest the scientific research presented on this thread. I will acknowledge that the research is ongoing, but to assert a final conclusion that it's all about taking probiotica, scientists can just stop working, is anti-intellectual, anti-science, and basically moronic. People who aren't interested in the material here are welcome to not read or post to the thread. If they are going to post idiocies as final pronouncements on a very complicated scientific subject area, they are inviting PUSHBACK.

To add, sir, you DO NOT have my permission (ever) to adjust the EMPHASIS in any of my posts that you quote. That is also against forum rules. No big deal, but now you know, so don't do it again.

Cheers.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Jingthing

[robblok]

Rob. Anyone who actually reads the many articles I have posted knows there is a lot more to this gut bacteria health issue than probiotica. But you got your post in promoting that specious simple minded assertion. I ask readers to ignore such agenda and personal attack driven noise and actually look deeper in the subject matter content here. That is if they're interested the subject matter of this topic. Which is not compulsory.

"specious simple minded"

If you expect/want forum members to respect you, stop insulting people.

That is my honest estimation of the level of his argument. I don't need to waste my time with long responses to points that show the writer hasn't even begun to digest the scientific research presented on this thread. I will acknowledge that the research is ongoing, but to assert a final conclusion that it's all about taking probiotica, scientists can just stop working, is anti-intellectual, anti-science, and basically moronic. People who aren't interested in the material here are welcome to not read or post to the thread. If they are going to post idiocies as final pronouncements on a very complicated scientific subject area, they are inviting PUSHBACK.

To add, sir, you DO NOT have my permission (ever) to adjust the EMPHASIS in any of my posts that you quote. That is also against forum rules. No big deal, but now you know, so don't do it again.

Cheers.

You yourself say its ongoing nothing definite so it does not prove your point.

Mine is just as valid as nothing has been proven and its written by those who stand to benefit from the pills.

You need to learn to be a bit more sceptical. But as this suits your agenda i doubt you will. That is simple minded in my book.

[Jingthing]

Now that rob has released yet another load of OFF TOPIC personal hostility and totally false insinuations (as has been going on for years), hopefully we can move on to discussion about the actual topic.

With people who are actually sincerely interested in the scientific research referred to here several times.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Jingthing

[singa-traz]

Rob. Anyone who actually reads the many articles I have posted knows there is a lot more to this gut bacteria health issue than probiotica. But you got your post in promoting that specious simple minded assertion. I ask readers to ignore such agenda and personal attack driven noise and actually look deeper in the subject matter content here. That is if they're interested the subject matter of this topic. Which is not compulsory.

"specious simple minded"

If you expect/want forum members to respect you, stop insulting people.

That is my honest estimation of the level of his argument. I don't need to waste my time with long responses to points that show the writer hasn't even begun to digest the scientific research presented on this thread. I will acknowledge that the research is ongoing, but to assert a final conclusion that it's all about taking probiotica, scientists can just stop working, is anti-intellectual, anti-science, and basically moronic. People who aren't interested in the material here are welcome to not read or post to the thread. If they are going to post idiocies as final pronouncements on a very complicated scientific subject area, they are inviting PUSHBACK.

To add, sir, you DO NOT have my permission (ever) to adjust the EMPHASIS in any of my posts that you quote. That is also against forum rules. No big deal, but now you know, so don't do it again.

Cheers.

Oops, I did it again.

Please, do report me to the moderator immediately. I will be glad to have a discussion with them about you in this forum.

As for the topic, Gut Bacteria ... I must say that would be the last option that i would consider.

[Jingthing]

Rob. Anyone who actually reads the many articles I have posted knows there is a lot more to this gut bacteria health issue than probiotica. But you got your post in promoting that specious simple minded assertion. I ask readers to ignore such agenda and personal attack driven noise and actually look deeper in the subject matter content here. That is if they're interested the subject matter of this topic. Which is not compulsory.

"specious simple minded"

If you expect/want forum members to respect you, stop insulting people.

That is my honest estimation of the level of his argument. I don't need to waste my time with long responses to points that show the writer hasn't even begun to digest the scientific research presented on this thread. I will acknowledge that the research is ongoing, but to assert a final conclusion that it's all about taking probiotica, scientists can just stop working, is anti-intellectual, anti-science, and basically moronic. People who aren't interested in the material here are welcome to not read or post to the thread. If they are going to post idiocies as final pronouncements on a very complicated scientific subject area, they are inviting PUSHBACK.

To add, sir, you DO NOT have my permission (ever) to adjust the EMPHASIS in any of my posts that you quote. That is also against forum rules. No big deal, but now you know, so don't do it again.

Cheers.

Oops, I did it again.

Please, do report me to the moderator immediately. I will be glad to have a discussion with them about you in this forum.

As for the topic, Gut Bacteria ... I must say that would be the last option that i would consider.

Not going to discuss moderation here. Do what you want.

Your point about gut bacteria is incoherent.

If you don't have anything to say about the topic, you really don't have to say anything!

If nobody on thaivisa is actually interested in this area of gut bacteria, that's fine too.

Some topics are duds.

But this subject matter is too important to be ruined by those who are only attracted to it for agendas of personal character assassination against people who MIGHT have interest in the actual topic.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Jingthing

[singa-traz]

Not going to discuss moderation here. Do what you want.

Your point about gut bacteria is incoherent.

If you don't have anything to say about the topic, you really don't have to say anything!

My point is not incoherent.

When you try to research gut bacteria and obesity, google will link you rapidly to Freeze-Dried poop pills articles.

And personally, I would do my best to avoid this treatment. I mean, as effective it could be, I'm not prepared for that.

It's a bit like this wonderful coffee ...

But as for the moderation, I stand by my request. If you think, I'm bullying, insulting or psychologically harming you in any way, please DO REPORT ME.

Again, I will be more than willing to discuss with the moderator about your "contribution" to this forum.

[Jingthing]

I have never suggested that anyone, at this early point in the state of research, buy freeze dried poop pills on the internet. That's your wild idea. I would NEVER endorse that. I have NEVER endorsed that. So that is 100 percent about your schtick. Nothing to do with THIS thread or what I have posted here AT ALL.

Maybe I'm getting what you're hinting at now which anyone who has actually read the thread would ALREADY KNOW.

Now on the topic of specific widely available clinical medical therapies that will be treatments and prevention for OBESITY, no, that is not happening now.

It is ALSO possible that these more specifically TARGETED future clinical treatments to change gut bacteria profiles will NOT need to use feces at all. That would be good as very few people find the feces idea appealing.

What is happening now is that for people with some specific BOWEL DISEASES, there are some places where such somewhat radical therapies are already being used with good results. Radical because people do see the feces things as radical.

Possibly seen at this point as EXPERIMENTAL, but still very promising progress in that area, which POINTS to future progress in prevention and treatment of obesity (as far the gut bacteria profiles).

Trying to read between the lines here, perhaps you mean if there isn't anything the masses can do RIGHT NOW (I totally agree, there isn't) that relates to a clinical treatment using feces, then the RESEARCH isn't worth discussing at all.

Well, obviously, I don't agree with that at all. But for those with that POV, your option is to NOT READ and NOT POST to this thread. Sorted.

To add, as I have posted many many times on various topics, I totally do support consumption of fermented foods, live bacteria in yogurt and also prebiotic foods such as in RAW ONIONS to feed the good bacteria. People can do that NOW but that is not the SAME THING as what the potential is with an actual TARGETED medical clinical approach to changing specific TYPES of gut bacteria for health goals, including related to obesity treatment and prevention.

That personal diet thing may or may not help people, but I don't see how it can hurt. But it's not the same thing as the potential for more TARGETED approaches actually looking to permanently change gut bacteria profiles in very specific ways. That's a big part of the potential of this research.

As far as your mod comments, stop baiting me. If you want to report, report. If I want to report, I can report.

I will also add if you think my contribution on this health forum is worthless or harmful (as you've basically said explicitly before) you do have a good choice: PUT MY POSTS ON IGNORE. Then you don't have to read them. If you need technical info on how to put members on ignore, just ask.

Happy New Year.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Jingthing

[singa-traz]

I have never suggested that anyone, at this early point in the state of research, buy freeze dried poop pills on the internet. That's your wild idea. I would NEVER endorse that. I have NEVER endorsed that. So that is 100 percent about your schtick. Nothing to do with THIS thread or what I have posted here AT ALL.

Maybe I'm getting what you're hinting at now which anyone who has actually read the thread would ALREADY KNOW.

Now on the topic of specific widely available clinical medical therapies that will be treatments and prevention for OBESITY, no, that is not happening now.

It is ALSO possible that these more specifically TARGETED future clinical treatments to change gut bacteria profiles will NOT need to use feces at all. That would be good as very few people find the feces idea appealing.

What is happening now is that for people with some specific BOWEL DISEASES, there are some places where such somewhat radical therapies are already being used with good results. Radical because people do see the feces things as radical.

Possibly seen at this point as EXPERIMENTAL, but still very promising progress in that area, which POINTS to future progress in prevention and treatment of obesity (as far the gut bacteria profiles).

Trying to read between the lines here, perhaps you mean if there isn't anything the masses can do RIGHT NOW (I totally agree, there isn't) that relates to a clinical treatment using feces, then the RESEARCH isn't worth discussing at all.

Well, obviously, I don't agree with that at all. But for those with that POV, your option is to NOT READ and NOT POST to this thread. Sorted.

To add, as I have posted many many times on various topics, I totally do support consumption of fermented foods, live bacteria in yogurt and also prebiotic foods such as in RAW ONIONS to feed the good bacteria. People can do that NOW but that is not the SAME THING as what the potential is with an actual TARGETED medical clinical approach to changing specific TYPES of gut bacteria for health goals, including related to obesity treatment and prevention.

That personal diet thing may or may not help people, but I don't see how it can hurt. But it's not the same thing as the potential for more TARGETED approaches actually looking to permanently change gut bacteria profiles in very specific ways. That's a big part of the potential of this research.

As far as your mod comments, stop baiting me. If you want to report, report. If I want to report, I can report.

I will also add if you think my contribution on this health forum is worthless or harmful (as you've basically said explicitly before) you do have a good choice: PUT MY POSTS ON IGNORE. Then you don't have to read them. If you need technical info on how to put members on ignore, just ask.

Happy New Year.

You are correct, you did not mentioned "Freeze Dried Poop", only the "gut bacteria fecal therapy".

Effectively, I failed to see how discussing this type of therapy on this particular forum, therapy which will not be available in the near future, is helping anyone.

Yes, I think overall your contribution is harmful, even if you do have some occasional good posts. But I have already explained my POV on this.

I don't see how me putting you on ignore will address this. It's not me you are harming, but people who might need help.

[Jingthing]

You have now attacked me multiple times on multiple threads broadcasting a vicious agenda of how you think my posts on this health forum are harmful. Enough is enough unless you get sick jollies from obsessive bullying and character assassination of fellow members.

Other adults here can decide for themselves whether my posts are worth their time to read or respond to.

There is no rule that we can't discuss scientific research related to etiology of obesity even if that information doesn't lend itself yet to specific clinical treatments for the masses.

People can though right now eat more fermented foods and also prebiotics like raw onion. Ideally every day though that can be hard to do. Without an analysis of their gut bacteria before and after they won't know the exact benefit and change they might be making with their gut bacteria profile but my opinion still worth doing.

I do that myself but fail to eat those foods daily. Most days some though.

There also may be a benefit to overall health not related to weight control issues.

We're humans here. More to us than just our weight control issues.

Edited January 16, 2016 by Jingthing

[singa-traz]

You have now attacked me multiple times on multiple threads broadcasting a vicious agenda of how you think my posts on this health forum are harmful. Enough is enough unless you get sick jollies from obsessive bullying and character assassination of fellow members.

...

There is nothing vicious in the comments I make and those are not attacks. It's self-delusion from your part.

It is correct that your line of posting has been challenged by a few posters, who questions some of your position about this subject.

• Is Obesity a disease?
• How much control do people have?
• etc ...

Your "agenda" in your posts, seems to constantly diffuse personal responsibility, and that is what make them harmful in my view.

[Jingthing]

You have now attacked me multiple times on multiple threads broadcasting a vicious agenda of how you think my posts on this health forum are harmful. Enough is enough unless you get sick jollies from obsessive bullying and character assassination of fellow members.

...

There is nothing vicious in the comments I make and those are not attacks. It's self-delusion from your part.

It is correct that your line of posting has been challenged by a few posters, who questions some of your position about this subject.

• Is Obesity a disease?
• How much control do people have?
• etc ...

Your "agenda" in your posts, seems to constantly diffuse personal responsibility, and that is what make them harmful in my view.

That is a gross garbage distortion. I don't appreciate having my POV distorted in such a massive way. If you insist on your relentless bullying campaign expect to be called out for it.

Do not put words in my mouth. My opinions exist in specific posts. I also will not respond to every question in every post if it is clearly designed to bait me into agreeing that the false narrative you and some others are promoting is anything real or anything about me.

If you're just here to argue and defame my character I do question the value you add.

Edited January 16, 2016 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

To add, this thread isn't about rating and/or reviewing the contributions of different posters to this HEALTH forum.

That kind of gossip is probably more apt in Poster of the Year or Bedlam threads.

The thread is about GUT BACTERIA topics.

If that interests you, please DO post here.

If that doesn't interest you, please do NOT post here.

Edited January 16, 2016 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Some information about how buying probiotic foods and supplements is possibly not doing anything for you. More research is needed. Obesity only mentioned tangentially:

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/gut-week-do-probiotics-work-are-they-good-for-me/

But there is still so much we don’t know about whether and how the probiotic products now on the shelves — which most commonly contain bacteria from the Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium genera — can improve health.3 Probiotic supplements (and to a lesser extent, prebiotics) have been studied for a host of ailments, including digestive problems, allergic disorders, obesity, dental problems, the common cold, high cholesterol and gestational diabetes. But there’s limited evidence that they work for any but a handful of conditions. The probiotic craze has gotten ahead of the science.

At the very basic level, we don’t understand how probiotics work. “There’s a black box in between giving the [probiotic] and the health effects,” said David Mills, a professor of food science and technology at the University of California, Davis. There are a variety of possible ways they might work, including competing with “bad” bacteria for nutrition and stimulating the immune system. But none of it is nailed down. “We are just realizing how complex the gut is,” Mills said. We still don’t even know what an ideal gut bacterial mix would look like, if there is such a thing.

[tropo]

Some information about how buying probiotic foods and supplements is possibly not doing anything for you. More research is needed. Obesity only mentioned tangentially:

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/gut-week-do-probiotics-work-are-they-good-for-me/

But there is still so much we don’t know about whether and how the probiotic products now on the shelves — which most commonly contain bacteria from the Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium genera — can improve health.3 Probiotic supplements (and to a lesser extent, prebiotics) have been studied for a host of ailments, including digestive problems, allergic disorders, obesity, dental problems, the common cold, high cholesterol and gestational diabetes. But there’s limited evidence that they work for any but a handful of conditions. The probiotic craze has gotten ahead of the science.

At the very basic level, we don’t understand how probiotics work. “There’s a black box in between giving the [probiotic] and the health effects,” said David Mills, a professor of food science and technology at the University of California, Davis. There are a variety of possible ways they might work, including competing with “bad” bacteria for nutrition and stimulating the immune system. But none of it is nailed down. “We are just realizing how complex the gut is,” Mills said. We still don’t even know what an ideal gut bacterial mix would look like, if there is such a thing.

In the meanwhile, while waiting for the science to catch up with the probiotic craze I've enjoyed 5 years of perfect gut health due to a religious daily use of kefir. Indigestion, reflux, constipation, all a thing of the past... in my 50's!! I can pretty much eat anything without consequence. It wasn't like that in my pre-kefir days - the digestive system was not good.

My blood sugar levels are now amazing. I used to always wake up in the 100's - 110's (and higher) mg/dl, now I'm posting mid 70's to low 90's while eating a fairly high carbohydrate diet.

My wife has eliminated food sensitivities (used to get hives from eating various foods), cured her travel sickness, eliminated cellulite and generally feeling much healthier overall - from daily use of kefir for under a year.

I don't want to get too carried away with the benefits of consuming a powerful probiotic on a daily basis, but I'm not waiting for science. The gut microbiome is extremely complex and that will take decades if they ever do solve the mystery. I don't have the time to wait. Apart from that, research money for natural cures is limited as most funding does into finding magic drugs. It's going to be slow.

I have some good news for you. I know buying kefir has been problematic for you as it usually involves meeting someone, and disclosing your identity. A lady has just started a business selling kefir grains in Bangkok. Name: HK probiotics. She sells both milk and water kefir grains. You can now purchase it anonymously (from other forum members).​

Edited May 21, 2016 by tropo

[Saastrajaa]

I remain at my usual weight. In spite of my booze intake...my swimming regime continues unabated.

Bad diet and exercise....that's where its at!

NIce try...however,

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/16/upshot/to-lose-weight-eating-less-is-far-more-important-than-exercising-more.html?_r=0

[tropo]

I remain at my usual weight. In spite of my booze intake...my swimming regime continues unabated.

Bad diet and exercise....that's where its at!

NIce try...however,

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/16/upshot/to-lose-weight-eating-less-is-far-more-important-than-exercising-more.html?_r=0

Unfortunately all these articles stating that exercise is not as important as diet in weight loss don't go into any details regarding the type of exercise.

When I train I burn around 850 - 1100 calories in an hour depending on my program. That's easy to do if you're fit, but would be tough for many. The fitter you get, the easier you can burn them. More muscle mass helps too, so resistance work will be beneficial.

A combination of slow, medium and high intensity cardio with some HIIT and resistance training will cover all bases. Aim to get fitter and stronger, and the body will become a more efficient burning machine. Aim for a diversified exercise program. If your program is carefully balanced you can exercise everyday without the risk of overtraining.

It might help if one approaches exercise as a challenge to fitness, rather than alway thinking how many calories you're burning. If you become highly motivated in your exercise program you may find the rest will fall into place.

Edited May 21, 2016 by tropo

[WonnabeBiker]

Thanks to the OP for starting the thread.

The story was sadly long-winded. But no doubt, we will continue to learn more and more. In Africa, some hunters eat the bacteria ofan antilope's guts and prosper.

[Jingthing]

Research continues.
Will this one pan out?

Heck if I know!

 

Quote

 

Can Slim People’s Poop Treat Obesity?

Over the last few years, we’ve learned that gut bacteria differs dramatically between healthy-weight people and people with obesity. At the same time, interest in fecal transplants as a treatment for everything from superbugs to malnourishment has grown dramatically. As these discoveries have unfolded, we’ve all been wondering the same thing: can we just put the poop of skinny people into people with obesity to help them lose weight? Now, a team of researchers in Canada is trying to find out.

“If you, who are skinny, and I, who is a little fatter, eat the same amount of food, you’ll suck up less nutrients and I’ll suck up more,” said Dr. Herbert Gaisano, a professor of medicine and physiology at the University of Toronto. “Part of the reason is because my bacteria metabolizes the food in a way that I’ll suck up more.”

 

 

 

 

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/can-slim-peoples-poop-treat-obesity

[JaseTheBass]

14 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Research continues.
Will this one pan out?

Heck if I know!

 

 

 

 

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/can-slim-peoples-poop-treat-obesity

 

A clinic in Hitchin, UK already does fecal transplantsto treat a variety of conditions.

 

Unfortunately in the US, until major pharma has worked out a way to profit from it, their FDA puppet is unlikely to give fecal transplants the green light for anything but severe cases of baterial imbalance in a few select cases.

Edited October 10, 2016 by JaseTheBass

[Jingthing]

Fecal work is being done in many nations to cure specific intestinal diseases. But as a widespread treatment for obesity, no, we're not there yet, and until more is known, we may never be there. But definitely worth researching. My prediction is that some kind of mass fecal treatment for obesity will eventually be developed but it will not be any kind of panacea. More like a treatment that helps a significant percenatage of people achieve some improvement long term. Kind of like bariatric. There isn't a 100 percent cure all for obesity and there likely never will be. Anyway, best bang for the buck now and probably forever is focus on PREVENTION in young people. Once people become obese, as adults they usually have a lifetime struggle on their hands. 

Edited October 10, 2016 by Jingthing