Things We Learned From Songkran Accident Statistics

[richard_smith237]

Sorry, but Thais never learn anything. They don't learn in classrooms, they learn nothing from repeated political violence and carnage, and they will never learn anything from road toll figures.

Nothing like damning a while nation with scorn and judgement !.... Are you sure 'They all' don't learn anything ?... My Wife learns, Oh, wrong thread for the 'she's different comment'...

Thailand is developing and as it develops issues such as road safety will improve. If we were to look back at our own history we can see the drink driving, seat belt and helmet laws all coming into effect and meeting resistance. Thai's are learning, they are probably learning at the same pace we did, but it takes a generation or two for it to really sink in as it did in the West.

i.e. I never had a child seat or rear seat belts in the 70's when I was a child. My father probably had a few glasses of wine when driving home from a friends after dinner etc... it was the norm, we were simply not as aware of safety back then as we are now.

In a few generations time (20 years perhaps) many of these issues will / might be nailed out if the government chooses to educate the public and correctly enforce regulations... change is slow but it will happen.

Thailand in many cases appears to be 30 years or so behind the West regarding many issues. Hopefully, while society develops it can also avoid many of the negative aspects we have pick up in the West (such as loss of community, riots, random violence, confrontationalsim etc)...

[PaullyW]

Sorry, but Thais never learn anything. They don't learn in classrooms, they learn nothing from repeated political violence and carnage, and they will never learn anything from road toll figures.

Nothing like damning a while nation with scorn and judgement !.... Are you sure 'They all' don't learn anything ?... My Wife learns, Oh, wrong thread for the 'she's different comment'...

Thailand is developing and as it develops issues such as road safety will improve. If we were to look back at our own history we can see the drink driving, seat belt and helmet laws all coming into effect and meeting resistance. Thai's are learning, they are probably learning at the same pace we did, but it takes a generation or two for it to really sink in as it did in the West.

i.e. I never had a child seat or rear seat belts in the 70's when I was a child. My father probably had a few glasses of wine when driving home from a friends after dinner etc... it was the norm, we were simply not as aware of safety back then as we are now.

In a few generations time (20 years perhaps) many of these issues will / might be nailed out if the government chooses to educate the public and correctly enforce regulations... change is slow but it will happen.

Thailand in many cases appears to be 30 years or so behind the West regarding many issues. Hopefully, while society develops it can also avoid many of the negative aspects we have pick up in the West (such as loss of community, riots, random violence, confrontationalsim etc)...

Of course they are slowly moving forward. But, if they are indeed learning as slowly as we did, that's concerning because we had to learn everything from 'scratch'. It was all new to us. The cars, the highways, the traffic, etc. If Thailand never looks outward with any seriousness, it will have to make all the same mistakes and perhaps others that could have been avoided.

[Buckaroo]

Perhaps if all these idiots that create death and carnarge on the road started to drive earlier in life then Darwinism would prevail.

[DocN]

Sorry, but Thais never learn anything. They don't learn in classrooms, they learn nothing from repeated political violence and carnage, and they will never learn anything from road toll figures.

Nothing like damning a while nation with scorn and judgement !.... Are you sure 'They all' don't learn anything ?... My Wife learns, Oh, wrong thread for the 'she's different comment'...

Thailand is developing and as it develops issues such as road safety will improve. If we were to look back at our own history we can see the drink driving, seat belt and helmet laws all coming into effect and meeting resistance. Thai's are learning, they are probably learning at the same pace we did, but it takes a generation or two for it to really sink in as it did in the West.

i.e. I never had a child seat or rear seat belts in the 70's when I was a child. My father probably had a few glasses of wine when driving home from a friends after dinner etc... it was the norm, we were simply not as aware of safety back then as we are now.

In a few generations time (20 years perhaps) many of these issues will / might be nailed out if the government chooses to educate the public and correctly enforce regulations... change is slow but it will happen.

Thailand in many cases appears to be 30 years or so behind the West regarding many issues. Hopefully, while society develops it can also avoid many of the negative aspects we have pick up in the West (such as loss of community, riots, random violence, confrontationalsim etc)...

As true as this is (I guess, I grew up around the same era as you did), there is one difference though: here, almost everybody is on some kind of motored vehicle, from cars to scooters.

That just simply wasn't the way in the 70's ...at least not in Germany.

The likelihood of being in an accident was much smaller, simply because there were less cars...

[kirk0233]

One way to lower the death statistics would be obvious to any visitor who has experience the horror of driving in Thailand; don't allow vehicles, particularly motorcycles to drive in the wrong lane against traffic. Enforcing this already existing law would doubtless reduce accidents/deaths and confusion when driving here.

[Buckaroo]

One way to lower the death statistics would be obvious to any visitor who has experience the horror of driving in Thailand; don't allow vehicles, particularly motorcycles to drive in the wrong lane against traffic. Enforcing this already existing law would doubtless reduce accidents/deaths and confusion when driving here.

Enforcing any of the laws would doubtless reduce accidents/deaths and confusion when driving here.

[Chicken George]

The answer is very simple to avoid the problems with SongCran or also known as Thailands Festival of Death!

Just ban the thowing or playing with watet on any road. Simple!! Provide open areas yes even closed off roads where people can play.. What a total waste of life every year..

[FarangTalk]

Root Cause: No proper driver education, simplistic driver tests and qualification requirements and a general lack of safety culture in Thailand. Its not just on the roads that they act in unsafe manners. At home, in the factory and on the construction sites.

If statistics are to be meaningful, more comparisons should be made. For example, what was the mean age groups and sex of the offenders? Educational background? Another statistic that was not mentioned and bares scrutiny is a comparison of new vehicles on the road this year compared to last year. If more vehicles on the road this year and accident levels year-on-year more or less the same, then there is a lower relative number of accidents/deaths. Simply reporting the same old figures is basically meaningless.

The biggest issue is working out exactly WHERE are these accidents happening. Songkran goes in 3 distinct stages. Main highways packed with people going home. 2/3 days. Cities packed with revelers, everyone absolutely hammered, massive traffic jams in the city (but the highway police still man the checkpoints even though the traffic is reduced) and then everyone rushing to go home absolutely knackered but largely sober. Presumably the majority of the motorcycle accidents are in and around the celebrations, but these are local police responsibilty not the highway police.

Are the majority of accidents on the highway at high speed (Highway police responsiblity) or in the cities around the celebrations. One could deduce that by achieving results that match the usual average, but considering the amount of traffic and amount of kilometres travelled on the highway by the people travelling for Songkran, the measures taken by the coppers are a roaring success.

Is it really ?

There has been plenty of debate regarding the accuracy of the statistics for traffic related deaths in Thailand (lets try not to go off topic and rehash that debate).

According to http://www.thaiwebsites.com/caraccidents.asp the were 8093 traffic related deaths in 2010, 8305 deaths in 2011 and 7784 deaths in 2012.

Thats an average of 22 deaths per day.

The Songkran figures are: 320 deaths over 7 days: An Average of 45 per day.

Thus twice as many people are killed in road traffic accidents over songkran than the yearly average.

However, there are probably twice as many cars on the road.

So, is there really any change at all due to Songkran? Could the cause in statistics be simply due to an increase in traffic and nothing more?

This again suggest that the issue is not Songkran drunks, speeding and helmet-less riders, but driving standards and road safety culture on a whole throughout the year.

Thailand only reports those dead at the scene and according to the WHO those figures are around 12,000 fatalities.

Other countries calculate the road toll by including those that die up to 30 days after an accident.

[gmac]

1. Using a vehicle without a licence - jail.

2. Riding without a helmet - instant loss of licence.

3. Drunk driving - jail.

All vehicles impounded for 1, 3. and sold off.

Substantial fines - may help.

In response to number 1, can you advise how to learn to drive/ride before obtaining the licence. The fact that there is no provisional or new driver licence means that to gain proficiency in driving on roads before taking a test to obtain the licence, you are forced to use the roads illegally by driving without a licence. Throwing such learners into jail seems a little harsh!

[cup-O-coffee]

From the OP:

3. The main cause of accidents this year remains alcohol consumption.
But wait. The authorities' figures show 39.1 per cent of accidents
involved alcohol. Admittedly, it's a big percentage, but what about the
other 60 per cent of the 2,828 accidents that were not alcohol-related?


4. The second-biggest cause of accidents is speeding drivers, causing
23.5 per cent of the 2,828 accidents. Are these figures telling us you
don't have to race during Songkran to die or be injured?

Disagree! The main cause is mentally impaired people who dodge common sense and the law and do what they want to do and find the means to do it where there is least resistance (a.k.a. cheaters and cowards).

The second biggest cause is the same as the biggest cause, but without being impaired by alcohol. It is not speeding that kills or makes accidents. It is failing to be aware of and taking the appropriate steps to avoid the things that speed can meet and hence create a very undesired cessation to said speed.

[Soi Sauce]

Sorry, but Thais never learn anything. They don't learn in classrooms, they learn nothing from repeated political violence and carnage, and they will never learn anything from road toll figures.

Nothing like damning a while nation with scorn and judgement !.... Are you sure 'They all' don't learn anything ?... My Wife learns, Oh, wrong thread for the 'she's different comment'...

Thailand is developing and as it develops issues such as road safety will improve. If we were to look back at our own history we can see the drink driving, seat belt and helmet laws all coming into effect and meeting resistance. Thai's are learning, they are probably learning at the same pace we did, but it takes a generation or two for it to really sink in as it did in the West.

i.e. I never had a child seat or rear seat belts in the 70's when I was a child. My father probably had a few glasses of wine when driving home from a friends after dinner etc... it was the norm, we were simply not as aware of safety back then as we are now.

In a few generations time (20 years perhaps) many of these issues will / might be nailed out if the government chooses to educate the public and correctly enforce regulations... change is slow but it will happen.

Thailand in many cases appears to be 30 years or so behind the West regarding many issues. Hopefully, while society develops it can also avoid many of the negative aspects we have pick up in the West (such as loss of community, riots, random violence, confrontationalsim etc)...

(such as loss of community, riots, random violence, confrontationalsim etc)...

Well, they've got all these in abundance.; just ask the reds yellows PTP Dems, etc. Then look at Phuket taxi drivers etc. and read the daily newspapers. Obviously, they learnt nothing from developed countries, either.

Please tell me what they learn?

Edited April 24, 2013 by Soi Sauce

[upena]

I have a Thai Drivers license - was good for one year - just went and got it "upgraded" to 5 years - only test required - color blindness. Paperwork - passport, yellow book, old license, and doctor's certificate - and copies. Doc's cert was gotten for 40 baht by my wife while I was at home.

[JulesMad]

Imagine how many more people would have been killed/wounded, if they did NOT have have all these action and warnings and new 'laws'

Numbers are the same as last year, despite all the 'special' attention for dangerous driving...

I guess we all can be happy it is not much worse; it is not a matter of 'better', it is a matter of 'not much worse' , unfortunately

Save driving and look in front, back, left, right, down and up ALL THE TIME

[IMHO]

If the authorities want to make a serious reduction in the death toll next year, the solution is very simple:

Ban all motorbikes for the '7 deadly days'

Think about all of the effects this would have, and I'm sure we'd see the lowest loss of life compared to any time of the year.

[Thai at Heart]

Root Cause: No proper driver education, simplistic driver tests and qualification requirements and a general lack of safety culture in Thailand. Its not just on the roads that they act in unsafe manners. At home, in the factory and on the construction sites.

If statistics are to be meaningful, more comparisons should be made. For example, what was the mean age groups and sex of the offenders? Educational background? Another statistic that was not mentioned and bares scrutiny is a comparison of new vehicles on the road this year compared to last year. If more vehicles on the road this year and accident levels year-on-year more or less the same, then there is a lower relative number of accidents/deaths. Simply reporting the same old figures is basically meaningless.

The biggest issue is working out exactly WHERE are these accidents happening. Songkran goes in 3 distinct stages. Main highways packed with people going home. 2/3 days. Cities packed with revelers, everyone absolutely hammered, massive traffic jams in the city (but the highway police still man the checkpoints even though the traffic is reduced) and then everyone rushing to go home absolutely knackered but largely sober. Presumably the majority of the motorcycle accidents are in and around the celebrations, but these are local police responsibilty not the highway police.

Are the majority of accidents on the highway at high speed (Highway police responsiblity) or in the cities around the celebrations. One could deduce that by achieving results that match the usual average, but considering the amount of traffic and amount of kilometres travelled on the highway by the people travelling for Songkran, the measures taken by the coppers are a roaring success.

Is it really ?

There has been plenty of debate regarding the accuracy of the statistics for traffic related deaths in Thailand (lets try not to go off topic and rehash that debate).

According to http://www.thaiwebsites.com/caraccidents.asp the were 8093 traffic related deaths in 2010, 8305 deaths in 2011 and 7784 deaths in 2012.

Thats an average of 22 deaths per day.

The Songkran figures are: 320 deaths over 7 days: An Average of 45 per day.

Thus twice as many people are killed in road traffic accidents over songkran than the yearly average.

However, there are probably twice as many cars on the road.

So, is there really any change at all due to Songkran? Could the cause in statistics be simply due to an increase in traffic and nothing more?

This again suggest that the issue is not Songkran drunks, speeding and helmet-less riders, but driving standards and road safety culture on a whole throughout the year.

Thailand only reports those dead at the scene and according to the WHO those figures are around 12,000 fatalities.

Other countries calculate the road toll by including those that die up to 30 days after an accident.

Indeed, those who are still lying in hospital today and pass away in the next month after Songkran would be included in statistics elsewhere in the world, but not here.

The reality of the numbers for Songkran could or could not be infinitely worse.

[belg]

what we learned is nothing will ever change

and i am on optimistic

[jocko]

Give them credit for learning so quickly.

Mind you they could have asked me or you .

[MrJohnson]

What I learned - stay off the roads. Period. Shop early prior to Songkran. Bunker down next to the pool and don't leave home until the nonsense is over. Or better, still, leave Thailand for a week or so. The bad road stats is but one reason to avoid Songkran. There are amyriad others.

[yooper2001]

this is a year round problem. I think they should start from the begining and do a better job of driver training. then have a real highway patrol to stop cars from breaking the law ( i bet not 5% of thai drivers know what the yellow line on the road means ) then install camaras at traffic lights and photo anybody that goes through the light when it is red. the camara should capture the driver and the license plate. then send a traffic ticket to the owner and if not paid in 30 days impound the vehical and sell at a yearly auction. Plenty of money to support a real police force and i think even thai drivers will learn not to break the law

[Andre0720]

I think people need to drink more. You can't operate a vehicle if you are unconscious.

Ok, so better if they go from a low level of consciousness, to absence of consciousness.

Problem is it will not be permanent...

[Buckaroo]

this is a year round problem. I think they should start from the begining and do a better job of driver training. then have a real highway patrol to stop cars from breaking the law ( i bet not 5% of thai drivers know what the yellow line on the road means ) then install camaras at traffic lights and photo anybody that goes through the light when it is red. the camara should capture the driver and the license plate. then send a traffic ticket to the owner and if not paid in 30 days impound the vehical and sell at a yearly auction. Plenty of money to support a real police force and i think even thai drivers will learn not to break the law

Many vehicles especally in my neck of the woods do not have license plates

[Thai at Heart]

this is a year round problem. I think they should start from the begining and do a better job of driver training. then have a real highway patrol to stop cars from breaking the law ( i bet not 5% of thai drivers know what the yellow line on the road means ) then install camaras at traffic lights and photo anybody that goes through the light when it is red. the camara should capture the driver and the license plate. then send a traffic ticket to the owner and if not paid in 30 days impound the vehical and sell at a yearly auction. Plenty of money to support a real police force and i think even thai drivers will learn not to break the law

Many vehicles especally in my neck of the woods do not have license plates

Well only on Thailand would you have the option of driving a car with no licence plate.

I mean how hard can it be. But beyond that, why they need one central point to print all the plates in the country God only knows. And how hard it might be to buy one more machine knowing that this year will be a record number of new car sales.

Now that really takes some planning particularly when 95% of the bloody cars are made not 100 km from Bangkok.

[Pattaya28]

Why do farangs care about these statistics ??

The government doesn't.

The police don't.

The Thai culture doesn't.

[kurnell]

I think people need to drink more. You can't operate a vehicle if you are unconscious.

Ok, so better if they go from a low level of consciousness, to absence of consciousness.

Problem is it will not be permanent...

1 week is all they need

[ginjag]

Only to write what has been said a million times,,Here Learn Ha ha. We learned SO MUCH from last years stats, That's why we end up with this same cr#p again this year, next year Same Same.

[sunshine51]

Only to write what has been said a million times,,Here Learn Ha ha. We learned SO MUCH from last years stats, That's why we end up with this same cr#p again this year, next year Same Same.

I agree ginjag...same xxxx...different year. That's all...nothing more nothing less...save for the stats.

Edited April 24, 2013 by metisdead

[lostmebike]

'16. To sum up, next year's campaign must seriously focus on the first three days'

According to number 10, almost 70k officials were very focused!

'10. A total of 232,600 motorcyclists were charged with failing to wear a helmet. If each of them was fined just Bt100, the money collected could be used as overtime payment for overworked traffic policemen during Songkran, making them more eager to go after the "easy riders". (Nearly 70,000 officials were manning checkpoints throughout Thailand.)'

[Thereisnoif]

Translation from Thai of " things we learned" = nil,zero,nothing...

[rubl]

I refused to read all post on this topic. I don't even read the topic. Just from the title I already know we need a different methodology to be able to more accurately predict results by having the correct way of collecting statistics.

Now where's my coffee ?

[Thereisnoif]

Why do farangs care about these statistics ??

The government doesn't.

The police don't.

The Thai culture doesn't.

I sincerely hope you and no one in your family ever gets killed or injured in a car accident.

Only after that will you be able to mull over the stupidity of your post .