Liverpool F.c.

[alfieconn]

I just watched the clip were Bellamy and Dempsey got yellow cards.

Dempsey was just a whisker away from head butting him it's not even funny. But he forcefully forces his head into Bellamy's head twice and screams in his face. Deserved yellow but I don't see much what Bellamy did there other than talking, compared to Dempsey.

I watched the sending off incident again, as well. All I'll say is if Jay's follow through after winning the ball is a red card, then even more so is Lukaku's tackle on Henderson in the Carling Cup match where it was studs to ankle and he didn't win the ball! (and he didn't even get the yellow, it was given to the wrong player... Although the FA has since given it to Lukaku in retrospect).

Disgraceful decision and no idea how its even being debated.

Firstly is was an attempt to make contact with the ball to clear it and momentum has carried Jay onwards into the Fulham player.

And that why we need ex professional footballer being referees - or at least make it a professional occupation

Take your red bins off and cast your minces over this :

Accidentally kicking an opponent while tackling the ball is not a foul unless it was careless, reckless, or there was excessive force. If a player slide tackles from the front, it will be considered at least "dangerous play", even if the ball is contacted, since it would at the least be reckless or dangerous. (See "Cards, Red Card, Serious Foul Play")

1. Soccer Red Card - "Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force and endangering the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.

Edited December 7, 2011 by alfieconn

[alfieconn]

And that why we need ex professional footballer being referees - or at least make it a professional occupation

The knowledge of some people astounds me, the above comment plus the mancs not knowing what "fillip'' means, i mean what is Tv football forum coming too

Edited December 7, 2011 by alfieconn

[Abrak]

And that why we need ex professional footballer being referees - or at least make it a professional occupation

The knowledge of some people astounds me, the above comment plus the mancs not knowing what "fillip'' means, i mean what is Tv football forum coming too

Although I personally would question whether you have highlighted the right part. I think you should highlight the words professional footballer.

[Abrak]

BTW I do find it quite amusing that Suarez has turned into some 'cartoon sort of villain'.

In today's Times there is a picture of Suarez giving the bird. In the article it says 'much of the current controversy will depend if there is sufficient video evidence to support pictures of Suarez making gestures towards the crowd'.

Wait a moment... where did that come from...

Has he denied doing it? Has he done anything wrong? What is the appropriate punishment?

But if he is not charged. Will people think he is guilty but there was not sufficient evidence? And so was he charged with being racist because there was?

Reminds me of this french guy I was out with in BKK... we were chatting to this girl...I have a dog ... it has 3 legs ...and it was previously abused... <deleted>

[Devil]

1323254550[/url]' post='4896945']

And that why we need ex professional footballer being referees - or at least make it a professional occupation

The knowledge of some people astounds me, the above comment plus the mancs not knowing what "fillip'' means, i mean what is Tv football forum coming too

I was under the assumption some of them still had part time jobs such as Policemen, Postmen and Teachers Anyway how the hell they can be considered professional based on the shockingly Amateur bad performances week in week out is beyond me...

[carmine]

BTW I do find it quite amusing that Suarez has turned into some 'cartoon sort of villain'.

In today's Times there is a picture of Suarez giving the bird. In the article it says 'much of the current controversy will depend if there is sufficient video evidence to support pictures of Suarez making gestures towards the crowd'.

Wait a moment... where did that come from...

Has he denied doing it? Has he done anything wrong? What is the appropriate punishment?

But if he is not charged. Will people think he is guilty but there was not sufficient evidence? And so was he charged with being racist because there was?

Reminds me of this french guy I was out with in BKK... we were chatting to this girl...I have a dog ... it has 3 legs ...and it was previously abused... <deleted>

The whole business is a storm in a tea cup. The Fulham fans gave him stick all night then some half wit doesn't like it when he retaliates. It also happened after the whistle didn't it? Hence no tv cameras. Sometimes football fans and their hypocracy amazes me.

That said Suarez really doesn't help himself. Incidently, what on earth was Dalglish on when he said it was not Liverpools fault there was a man standing in the way in relevence to the Spearing tackle?

[alfieconn]

BTW I do find it quite amusing that Suarez has turned into some 'cartoon sort of villain'.

In today's Times there is a picture of Suarez giving the bird. In the article it says 'much of the current controversy will depend if there is sufficient video evidence to support pictures of Suarez making gestures towards the crowd'.

Wait a moment... where did that come from...

Has he denied doing it? Has he done anything wrong? What is the appropriate punishment?

But if he is not charged. Will people think he is guilty but there was not sufficient evidence? And so was he charged with being racist because there was?

Reminds me of this french guy I was out with in BKK... we were chatting to this girl...I have a dog ... it has 3 legs ...and it was previously abused... <deleted>

Incidently, what on earth was Dalglish on when he said it was not Liverpools fault there was a man standing in the way in relevence to the Spearing tackle?

No no no Carms, the other team are not allowed to have a man standing near the ball, that makes it much too difficult

By the way carms it seems dev's lost 10 years somewhere, he's still using part time refs and playing by the rules from then

[carmine]

BTW I do find it quite amusing that Suarez has turned into some 'cartoon sort of villain'.

In today's Times there is a picture of Suarez giving the bird. In the article it says 'much of the current controversy will depend if there is sufficient video evidence to support pictures of Suarez making gestures towards the crowd'.

Wait a moment... where did that come from...

Has he denied doing it? Has he done anything wrong? What is the appropriate punishment?

But if he is not charged. Will people think he is guilty but there was not sufficient evidence? And so was he charged with being racist because there was?

Reminds me of this french guy I was out with in BKK... we were chatting to this girl...I have a dog ... it has 3 legs ...and it was previously abused... <deleted>

Incidently, what on earth was Dalglish on when he said it was not Liverpools fault there was a man standing in the way in relevence to the Spearing tackle?

No no no Carms, the other team are not allowed to have a man standing near the ball, that makes it much too difficult

By the way carms it seems dev's lost 10 years somewhere, he's still using part time refs and playing by the rules from then

I've got no idea what goes on on Planet Dev. Dalglish's comments on the Spearing tackle were ill advised imho but i just think the shitstorm about the Suarez gesture is pathetic.

[Devil]

1323309960[/url]' post='4897990']

1323309048[/url]' post='4897966']

1323263734[/url]' post='4897236']

BTW I do find it quite amusing that Suarez has turned into some 'cartoon sort of villain'.

In today's Times there is a picture of Suarez giving the bird. In the article it says 'much of the current controversy will depend if there is sufficient video evidence to support pictures of Suarez making gestures towards the crowd'.

Wait a moment... where did that come from...

Has he denied doing it? Has he done anything wrong? What is the appropriate punishment?

But if he is not charged. Will people think he is guilty but there was not sufficient evidence? And so was he charged with being racist because there was?

Reminds me of this french guy I was out with in BKK... we were chatting to this girl...I have a dog ... it has 3 legs ...and it was previously abused... <deleted>

Incidently, what on earth was Dalglish on when he said it was not Liverpools fault there was a man standing in the way in relevence to the Spearing tackle?

No no no Carms, the other team are not allowed to have a man standing near the ball, that makes it much too difficult

By the way carms it seems dev's lost 10 years somewhere, he's still using part time refs and playing by the rules from then

Bless is that your attempt at humour Alfie? What's that its been over 10 years since Spurs won a trophy?

And that was never a Red and if you still think it is then you clearly have never watched football before.

Edited December 8, 2011 by Devil

[Abrak]

I dont think the FA does itself any favours. So they have charged Liverpool due to the fact that all the players crowded round the referee complaining about his decision to send off Spearing.

I know the charge is totally petty - 20,000 quid fine and a slap on the wrist. However, if the FA chooses to selectively punish clubs for this, shouldnt they at least choose occasions where the ref has made a good decision and there was nothing to complain about in the first place.

Afterall it looks like trying to punish the club twice - first, we have to suffer from a shitty decision by the ref and then we have to suffer for complaining about it.

[carmine]

BTW I do find it quite amusing that Suarez has turned into some 'cartoon sort of villain'.

In today's Times there is a picture of Suarez giving the bird. In the article it says 'much of the current controversy will depend if there is sufficient video evidence to support pictures of Suarez making gestures towards the crowd'.

Wait a moment... where did that come from...

Has he denied doing it? Has he done anything wrong? What is the appropriate punishment?

But if he is not charged. Will people think he is guilty but there was not sufficient evidence? And so was he charged with being racist because there was?

Reminds me of this french guy I was out with in BKK... we were chatting to this girl...I have a dog ... it has 3 legs ...and it was previously abused... <deleted>

Incidently, what on earth was Dalglish on when he said it was not Liverpools fault there was a man standing in the way in relevence to the Spearing tackle?

No no no Carms, the other team are not allowed to have a man standing near the ball, that makes it much too difficult

By the way carms it seems dev's lost 10 years somewhere, he's still using part time refs and playing by the rules from then

Bless is that your attempt at humour Alfie? What's that its been over 10 years since Spurs won a trophy?

And that was never a Red and if you still think it is then you clearly have never watched football before.

2008.

[Abrak]

2008.

Really? I thought you guys thought that was a 'cup' rather more than a 'trophy'.

[carmine]

2008.

Really? I thought you guys thought that was a 'cup' rather more than a 'trophy'.

Is that the best response you can offer?

Now seriously, do you not agree that Dalglish is not exactly helping you with his comments about refereeing? Would he not be better off keeping quiet? Would you not agree that Suarez isn't exactly helping himself? I mean, its not as if he doesn't have a malicious side as was shown by his forearm smash to Parkers face that was luckily missed by the ref but caught on camera and i see not defended on here.

A storm in a teacup yes re the crowd gesture but not playing smart is it.

[Devil]

2008.

Really? I thought you guys thought that was a 'cup' rather more than a 'trophy'.

Is that the best response you can offer?

Now seriously, do you not agree that Dalglish is not exactly helping you with his comments about refereeing? Would he not be better off keeping quiet? Would you not agree that Suarez isn't exactly helping himself? I mean, its not as if he doesn't have a malicious side as was shown by his forearm smash to Parkers face that was luckily missed by the ref but caught on camera and i see not defended on here.

A storm in a teacup yes re the crowd gesture but not playing smart is it.

Haha Parker forearm smash, jeez Carmine...I remember that but I didn't see it as intentional unlike the challenge Parker vindictively made on Suarez later in the match

All in all I do agree with your comment in that Suarez has not helped himself in regards to the actual finger gesture that he made to the Fulham fans - that was stupid regardless if he was being antagonized or not. I get why he did it and I think more so out of pressure and frustration of the result, the god awful decisions, lack protection on the field and the constant attention from the media with an agenda, but he needs to learn to be more than clever than that or have the last laugh and score a few!

In regards to Kenny and his opinions and comments, firstly maybe the media should be asked not to ask questions on the refs call in interviews and put mangers on the spot straight after games. Or better yet why are referees not given the opportunity/questioned to explain their decisions Immediately after a game??? that would be fun

And I think I would be more concerned that our Manager was not fighting the corner for the club if he honestly felt we are being wronged on so many occasions. Kenny has never struck me as someone who is dishonest,in that respect and calls it as he see it - right or wrong.

They are opinions at the end of the day and someone has to bring the attention to fact that the FA is an absolute disgrace of late in all matters and as bias as it may seem from me, I think LFC have been unfairly treated in the past few season in this respect.

The FA seem to lack all common sense every which way they turn.

Edited December 8, 2011 by Devil

[carmine]

2008.

Really? I thought you guys thought that was a 'cup' rather more than a 'trophy'.

Is that the best response you can offer?

Now seriously, do you not agree that Dalglish is not exactly helping you with his comments about refereeing? Would he not be better off keeping quiet? Would you not agree that Suarez isn't exactly helping himself? I mean, its not as if he doesn't have a malicious side as was shown by his forearm smash to Parkers face that was luckily missed by the ref but caught on camera and i see not defended on here.

A storm in a teacup yes re the crowd gesture but not playing smart is it.

Haha Parker forearm smash, jeez Carmine...I remember that but I didn't see it as intentional unlike the challenge Parker vindictively made on Suarez later in the match

All in all I do agree with your comment in that Suarez has not helped himself in regards to the actual finger gesture that he made to the Fulham fans - that was stupid regardless if he was being antagonized or not. I get why he did it and I think more so out of pressure and frustration of the result, the god awful decisions, lack protection on the field and the constant attention from the media with an agenda, but he needs to learn to be more than clever than that or have the last laugh and score a few!

In regards to Kenny and his opinions and comments, firstly maybe the media should be asked not to ask questions on the refs call in interviews and put mangers on the spot straight after games. Or better yet why are referees not given the opportunity/questioned to explain their decisions Immediately after a game??? that would be fun

And I think I would be more concerned that our Manager was not fighting the corner for the club if he honestly felt we are being wronged on so many occasions. Kenny has never struck me as someone who is dishonest,in that respect and calls it as he see it - right or wrong.

They are opinions at the end of the day and someone has to bring the attention to fact that the FA is an absolute disgrace of late in all matters and as bias as it may seem from me, I think LFC have been unfairly treated in the past few season in this respect.

The FA seem to lack all common sense every which way they turn.

Fair comment mate. You've finally taken off those specs i see!!

[rixalex]

All in all I do agree with your comment in that Suarez has not helped himself in regards to the actual finger gesture that he made to the Fulham fans - that was stupid regardless if he was being antagonized or not. I get why he did it and I think more so out of pressure and frustration of the result, the god awful decisions, lack protection on the field and the constant attention from the media with an agenda, but he needs to learn to be more than clever than that or have the last laugh and score a few!

Just out of interest, what is the agenda you think the media has specifically with Suarez, and why do they have it?

Or better yet why are referees not given the opportunity/questioned to explain their decisions Immediately after a game??? that would be fun

To my mind, it shouldn't be a case of being given the opportunity, it should be a case of having the responsibility. Explain why they made the decisions they did, and if they did <deleted> up, give them a chance to admit that. Would certainly appease fans if the ref put up his hands and said, "yeah sorry, got that wrong".

[carmine]

All in all I do agree with your comment in that Suarez has not helped himself in regards to the actual finger gesture that he made to the Fulham fans - that was stupid regardless if he was being antagonized or not. I get why he did it and I think more so out of pressure and frustration of the result, the god awful decisions, lack protection on the field and the constant attention from the media with an agenda, but he needs to learn to be more than clever than that or have the last laugh and score a few!

Just out of interest, what is the agenda you think the media has specifically with Suarez, and why do they have it?

Or better yet why are referees not given the opportunity/questioned to explain their decisions Immediately after a game??? that would be fun

To my mind, it shouldn't be a case of being given the opportunity, it should be a case of having the responsibility. Explain why they made the decisions they did, and if they did <deleted> up, give them a chance to admit that. Would certainly appease fans if the ref put up his hands and said, "yeah sorry, got that wrong".

Or better still ask Herr Blatter to allow the use of technology available to eliminate most of their incorrect decisions and make for a fairer result.

[rixalex]

Or better still ask Herr Blatter to allow the use of technology available to eliminate most of their incorrect decisions and make for a fairer result.

Yeah that too.

[Abrak]

Just out of interest, what is the agenda you think the media has specifically with Suarez, and why do they have it?

Well, I think they clearly do have an agenda.

I mean do you think if it had been any other player in the League (with the possible exception of Rooney) that a picture of a player giving the bird to the crowd would have been splashed across the back pages of most of the tabloids in some cases as their main story?

The agenda isnt particularly malicious - like a pantomine, football needs its comic villain, the guy you love to hate. And especially as pictures of Carlos Tevez playing golf in Argentina dont cut it anymore, having a crack at Suarez is pretty good value.

And oh look... Suarez is currently being voted the most hated man in football with over 6,000 more votes than Sepp Blatter who is coming second. He's bad. Oh no he's not. Oh yes he is.....

http://www.caughtoffside.com/2011/11/16/2011-hate-list-the-ten-most-hated-people-in-football-vote-now/

[rixalex]

Well, I think they clearly do have an agenda.

I mean do you think if it had been any other player in the League (with the possible exception of Rooney) that a picture of a player giving the bird to the crowd would have been splashed across the back pages of most of the tabloids in some cases as their main story?

The agenda isnt particularly malicious - like a pantomine, football needs its comic villain, the guy you love to hate. And especially as pictures of Carlos Tevez playing golf in Argentina dont cut it anymore, having a crack at Suarez is pretty good value.

And oh look... Suarez is currently being voted the most hated man in football with over 6,000 more votes than Sepp Blatter who is coming second. He's bad. Oh no he's not. Oh yes he is.....

http://www.caughtoff...tball-vote-now/

Yes, i agree they have an agenda, but no, i don't think it is a case of specifically singling Suarez out - which seems to be what you Liverpool fans are moaning about. Any top high profile player is fair game for the press to get their teeth into, given half a chance. Trick is, don't give them that chance. But the likes of Balotteli, Rooney, Terry, Bellamy, and indeed Suarez, can't seem to help themselves from courting controversy. That's fine. Their lives. If they don't want to, or aren't able to live the quiet life, then fine. But let's not pretend any one of them are victims.

[Abrak]

Yes, i agree they have an agenda, but no, i don't think it is a case of specifically singling Suarez out - which seems to be what you Liverpool fans are moaning about. Any top high profile player is fair game for the press to get their teeth into, given half a chance. Trick is, don't give them that chance. But the likes of Balotteli, Rooney, Terry, Bellamy, and indeed Suarez, can't seem to help themselves from courting controversy. That's fine. Their lives. If they don't want to, or aren't able to live the quiet life, then fine. But let's not pretend any one of them are victims.

Yes I agree in most respects.

What these players have in common though is really that they are inherently their 'own worst enemy'.

I still wonder to what extent say the FA is handling Suarez's 'finger' by a 'misconduct' charge. Afterall I think it is pretty clear that Suarez was abused and provoked throughout the match. Much of that abuse I would imagine stemmed from the very fact it might illicit a reaction which would, in turn, be punished by the FA.

I mean punishing Suarez for the finger may discourage Suarez from reacting. However, it is like a red rag to a bull for supporters to abuse opposition players more often and more vehemently in the knowledge that any reaction will be rewarded by punishment of the person who they abuse.

[Devil]

Saturday can't come soon enough, have a feeling QPR will be on the end of a thrashing, depending on the mood of the official that is...

[Abrak]

I do slightly wonder where the FA is going in terms of consistency in their charges against Suarez.

He is being effectively charged with two diametrically opposite crimes.

1) He reacted to verbal abuse by an offensive gesture.

2) He verbally abused another player.

By definition they can only be 'both' minor offensives or else each charge can be used as a defense of another.

[SantiSuk]

All in all I do agree with your comment in that Suarez has not helped himself in regards to the actual finger gesture that he made to the Fulham fans - that was stupid regardless if he was being antagonized or not. I get why he did it and I think more so out of pressure and frustration of the result, the god awful decisions, lack protection on the field and the constant attention from the media with an agenda, but he needs to learn to be more than clever than that or have the last laugh and score a few!

Just out of interest, what is the agenda you think the media has specifically with Suarez, and why do they have it?

Or better yet why are referees not given the opportunity/questioned to explain their decisions Immediately after a game??? that would be fun

To my mind, it shouldn't be a case of being given the opportunity, it should be a case of having the responsibility. Explain why they made the decisions they did, and if they did <deleted> up, give them a chance to admit that. Would certainly appease fans if the ref put up his hands and said, "yeah sorry, got that wrong".

Suarez needs to do a flying dropkick of an opposition supporter. That will cause initial outrage but quickly endear him to the vast majority of the public and the meejah. Did the job for Oooh aah Cantona.

Someone should post the video in case there are any youngsters here who don't know what truly unacceptable professional behaviour is, hilarious though it was

[Abrak]

Suarez needs to do a flying dropkick of an opposition supporter. That will cause initial outrage but quickly endear him to the vast majority of the public and the meejah. Did the job for Oooh aah Cantona.

Someone should post the video in case there are any youngsters here who don't know what truly unacceptable professional behaviour is, hilarious though it was

Not a particularly good idea.

From the little I know he has already tried 'extreme measures' by trying to bite the ear off of an opposition player. So encouragement is the last thing he needs.

[Abrak]

Or better still ask Herr Blatter to allow the use of technology available to eliminate most of their incorrect decisions and make for a fairer result.

I hope that UEFA/FA understand the fundamental logic of this argument because they have already lost it already.

The fact is...

1) That technology is well placed to already decide what decisions are fair. And it will only increase its accuracy in the future.

2) The fundamental cost of poor refereeing decisions has nothing to do with the effect it has whereby one side benefits and the other side loses - so can be balanced by the win some, lose some concept. What happens is that poor decisions - say Cahill's red card against Spurs - is that it robs 'both' sides of a competitive fair match.

[carmine]

Saturday can't come soon enough, have a feeling QPR will be on the end of a thrashing, depending on the mood of the official that is...

Liverpool 0 Colin 1

Theres no evidence Dev to support your theory of Liverpool thrashing anyone in the near or distant future.

[Devil]

1323392968[/url]' post='4899920']

1323334434[/url]' post='4898835']

Saturday can't come soon enough, have a feeling QPR will be on the end of a thrashing, depending on the mood of the official that is...

Liverpool 0 Colin 1

Theres no evidence Dev to support your theory of Liverpool thrashing anyone in the near or distant future.

Don't say things like that Carmine, we're a sensitive lot

[carmine]

Saturday can't come soon enough, have a feeling QPR will be on the end of a thrashing, depending on the mood of the official that is...

Liverpool 0 Colin 1

Theres no evidence Dev to support your theory of Liverpool thrashing anyone in the near or distant future.

Don't say things like that Carmine, we're a sensitive lot

Thats why i'm so fond of the Liverpool thread.

[Devil]

When the king of the one-liners gets serious, then it is time to sit up and take notice.

Well said Keny...I watched the Presser the other day but didn't know Kenny had also outlined 4 instances via video to the press later! link below to the a article in the Mirror. http://www.mirrorfoo...icle840963.html

****

When the king of the one-liners gets serious, then it is time to sit up and take notice.

And when it is the King of the Kop himself talking about persecution and victimisation of his star player, then maybe even the FA will have to stop and listen for a moment.

Kenny Dalglish is hardly known for his controversial statements.

He is the original straight-bat manager - almost creating an industry out of saying nothing.

On Thursday though, he took the FA to task for what he sees essentially as a victimisation of his player Luis Suarez, a systematic attempt by opponents to undermine the South American, that is finding encouragement in the inconsistency of the governing body's disciplinary structure.

The Liverpool manager has been loathe to shout too loudly about the charges Suarez has faced this season - first for allegedly aiming racist abuse at Patrice Evra, and then, on Monday night, aiming an obscene gesture at Fulham fans.

Yet there is clearly a growing fear within Anfield that their star striker is not only being marginalised by constant claims of diving, he is also being victimised by referees and the governing body itself, for falling for the taunts.

The manager put it bluntly as he insisted that Suarez causes so much fear in the minds of his opponents, they will now do anything to put him out of their stride.

"They cannot stop him on the pitch, so they try and stop him other ways off the pitch. They're trying to put things into people's minds, to get into their brains," he said.

"They are looking at ways to undermine him. But the people here, we know the truth about what is happening, and we will stick by him. We are not asking for anything special, we just want consistency.

"Fairness - that is all we are saying. He is being accused of this, of that, of everything, and there is a bandwagon that people are jumping on."

At the heart of Dalglish's presentation was the growing fear that Suarez could be banned twice within a matter of days, with both hearings due to sit before Christmas.

If he is found guilty, he faces anything up to an eight match ban in total, which would rule him out for much of January, devastating Liverpool's season in the process.

What rankles with Dalglish is the idea that Suarez is a cheat, a diver who needs the merest touch to go down.

The reality, he argued, is almost the mirror opposite.

In an almost surreal episode, a huge video screen descended from the ceiling of the media room at the Melwood training ground, and the manager proceeded to talk members of the press through several incidents in Monday night's game.

He did it not to lambaste the FA or the match officials, but to highlight clearly his points.

In all, he showed four clips, two of which saw Suarez take an almighty clattering from defenders, without receiving as much as a free-kick, and one of Craig Bellamy remaining restrained under intense provocation from Clint Dempsey.

In Liverpool's mind, that lack of protection is fostered by the cynical attempts to paint Suarez as a cheat.

And there is also the question of whether the inconsistency in dealing with the charges is generated by those mounting claims against him.

The answer, according to Dalglish, is major reform of a system he in part described as "a joke", and one which can be undermined by the very arbiters of justice appealing themselves against UEFA disciplinary measures.

He wants to see referees given clearer guidelines, and a better understanding of what is happening in front of them, and he believes that could come through far better and more frequent communication with clubs.

He also wants the FA to listen more closely to what the clubs are saying, so they can offer a consistent interpretation of their own rules.

"Somebody more intelligent than me can draw up something which is going to be helpful. But certainly we need to help each other to understand where we are coming from and where we are up to," he said.

"There needs to be more consistency, and more clarity. We don't want to put any referee any undue pressure. There's a train of thought the louder you shout the more sympathetic they are to giving you decisions but the job is difficult enough without us putting them under more pressure.

"All we want to do is be treated the same as anyone else. Every time - for the referee to make decisions on what he sees. I've shown you a few clips there that highlight the inconsistency (from the Fulham game), but there are many more.

"If they just sat down and spoke to people in football they'd get a better understanding of it and maybe we'd get a better understanding of them.

"They say they send referees every year to your football club but that referee never officiates one of your games, so it needs to be wider than that.

"There needs to be much more of a dialogue."

Edited December 9, 2011 by Devil