Liverpool F.c.

[carmine]

I think this article says it all.......

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/19458601

Brendan Rogers has made a tactical mistake, he destroyed Andy Carroll's confidence by declaring him surplus to requirements weeks ago and then waits till the next to last minute before releasing him on loan, and then fails to replace him.

It's a diabolical managerial error, now the story of friction with the board will run and we Liverpool fans are being sold down the swanee again. At this rate we'll be lucky to be top 8. Shocking.

I think Rodgers treatment of carroll showed him up as a very young manager. carrol should have been given until christmas and utilised as a plan B, regardless of whether he fitted in the grand scheme of things. As the article says, Rodgers destroyed his confidence and failed to replace him although not sure he's to blame for that. Eitherway its an inconcievable decision by the owners not to get cover for him. Its early days but Borini looks rather average.

See Downings hiding again from his defensive duties. Always provides a weakness for the opposition.

[brit1984]

There was only one change we really needed to make in the summer... strengthen up-front. Instead they made loads of changes and ended up decimating the strike force. It would have been nice to have Bellamy, Carroll or Kuyt on the bench yesterday...

I think we all agree we should give Rodgers time but I am starting to think that getting the fans to think like that was one of the reasons the owners' hired him (and sacked Dalglish so suddenly) as well him being easier to keep quiet while they "reduce the wage bill".

I wouldn't mind weakening the playing squad if that meant they would invest in a new stadium / redevelopment of Anfield but I don't expect any developments on that front...

[carmine]

I think this article says it all.......

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/19458601

Brendan Rogers has made a tactical mistake, he destroyed Andy Carroll's confidence by declaring him surplus to requirements weeks ago and then waits till the next to last minute before releasing him on loan, and then fails to replace him.

It's a diabolical managerial error, now the story of friction with the board will run and we Liverpool fans are being sold down the swanee again. At this rate we'll be lucky to be top 8. Shocking.

I read that Beeb article before and thought McNulty had been at a different game. Far too negative on Liverpool's performance and far too positive on Arsenal. Quit the hair shirt - you only have that one position to sort (maybe borrow a goalie in case Pepe keeps dropping a proverbial).

True but were talking about the strker situation and he's spot on with that.

I thought Liverpool were very good in spells with a number of positives to draw. Certainly didn't get any breaks from Webb but thats what i expected.

[R123]

Have to say that the appointment of Rodgers as the Liverpool boss was a massive error. His claim to fame was in effect making little Swansea a non relegated side but apart from that, he has no proper credentials to manage a big team and that lack of credentials and experience is now showing.

Sooner rather than later he needs to go.

(Same applies to that clown now in charge at Spurs., not that I am bothered as it serves them right, unlike Liverpool as many people believe that institution deserves better).

I ask myself why these football owners have no idea as to appointing the right people to the job as most people could have told them that the aforementioned appointments would end in disaster.

Also:

I watched the Liverpool match vs. Arsenal and the tv comentator continued to say how Liverpool were outplaying Arsenal for much of the match. Was it the same game I was viewing?

Liverpool did a lot of huffing and puffing and yes were a bit unlucky in some ways, but as we all ought to know its' all about tactical astuteness and taking chances and scoring goals.

Arsenal controlled the match; Liverpool I regret to say looked impotent.

Edited September 3, 2012 by R123

[StevieH]

I think this article says it all.......

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/19458601

Brendan Rogers has made a tactical mistake, he destroyed Andy Carroll's confidence by declaring him surplus to requirements weeks ago and then waits till the next to last minute before releasing him on loan, and then fails to replace him.

It's a diabolical managerial error, now the story of friction with the board will run and we Liverpool fans are being sold down the swanee again. At this rate we'll be lucky to be top 8. Shocking.

except the article is completely wide of the mark and phil mcnulty is a blert.

rodgers never wanted carroll. he wanted him out because he would not use him in the tactics he wanted to work towards. he told the owners and ian ayre this and they said that if rodgers loaned carroll out and got his wages off the books they would fund a replacement forward, namely dempsey. then this never happened. the manager was lied to by the administrators. yet again. we've been here before and we know how it ends.

[StevieH]

There was only one change we really needed to make in the summer... strengthen up-front. Instead they made loads of changes and ended up decimating the strike force. It would have been nice to have Bellamy, Carroll or Kuyt on the bench yesterday...

I think we all agree we should give Rodgers time but I am starting to think that getting the fans to think like that was one of the reasons the owners' hired him (and sacked Dalglish so suddenly) as well him being easier to keep quiet while they "reduce the wage bill".

I wouldn't mind weakening the playing squad if that meant they would invest in a new stadium / redevelopment of Anfield but I don't expect any developments on that front...

think that's becoming clearer now - absentee owners with an incompetent managing director in place, no director of football, no scouting staff and even the sports science guys were let go in the summer. got the wages of kuyt, bellamy, maxi rodriguez, adam, carroll, spearing, aquilani all off the books. no stadium in sight but they want to ramp up the commercial activity around the world as much as they can to increase the brand exposure.

they bought the club for a knockdown price, have put very little into it, and are fattening it up for a sale and a healthy profit. i wonder how david moores sleeps at night these days?

[Devil]

There was only one change we really needed to make in the summer... strengthen up-front. Instead they made loads of changes and ended up decimating the strike force. It would have been nice to have Bellamy, Carroll or Kuyt on the bench yesterday...

I think we all agree we should give Rodgers time but I am starting to think that getting the fans to think like that was one of the reasons the owners' hired him (and sacked Dalglish so suddenly) as well him being easier to keep quiet while they "reduce the wage bill".

I wouldn't mind weakening the playing squad if that meant they would invest in a new stadium / redevelopment of Anfield but I don't expect any developments on that front...

think that's becoming clearer now - absentee owners with an incompetent managing director in place, no director of football, no scouting staff and even the sports science guys were let go in the summer. got the wages of kuyt, bellamy, maxi rodriguez, adam, carroll, spearing, aquilani all off the books. no stadium in sight but they want to ramp up the commercial activity around the world as much as they can to increase the brand exposure.

they bought the club for a knockdown price, have put very little into it, and are fattening it up for a sale and a healthy profit. i wonder how david moores sleeps at night these days?

“At a football club, there’s a holy trinity — the players, the manager and the supporters. Directors don’t come into it. They are only there to sign the cheques.” - Bill Shankly.

[Devil]

Speaking of Shankly quotes -

Toney Barret Article - in The Times

Manager faces up to Anfield’s age of austerity.

“At a football club, there’s a holy trinity — the players, the manager and the supporters. Directors don’t come into it. They are only there to sign the cheques.” - Bill Shankly.

On what would have been Bill Shankly’s 99th birthday, Brendan Rodgers faced up to the new reality of being Liverpool manager. The club’s directors may still be there to sign the cheques but only if potential signings fit in with their own long-term strategy and age profile, a lesson that Rodgers learnt to his cost on transfer deadline day.

Had Rodgers got his way on Friday, Clint Dempsey would have been in his starting line-up for the visit of Arsenal to Anfield. As it was, the loss of an internal power struggle with Fenway Sports Group, the Liverpool owners, meant that the United States player went to Tottenham Hotspur, leaving Rodgers able to call upon only Luis Suárez and Fabio Borini as senior attackers from now until January.

With the exception of Suárez and Steven Gerrard, Liverpool’s new-look midfield and forward line did not feature a single player who had scored a goal for the club before kick-off yesterday, a statistic that remained unaltered after the final whistle. On the substitutes’ bench, there was not a single forward. Stewart Downing — he of no league goals nor assists last season — was the only recognised attacking player and Rodgers has spent the opening weeks of the new season trying to convert the fitful winger into a left back.

Last weekend, when Manchester City were the visiting team, Rodgers could at least summon Andy Carroll from the bench and the forward came within a Jack Rodwell goalline clearance of winning the game. By then, though, Rodgers had long since deemed Carroll surplus to requirements and the decision to exile the 23-year-old on Thursday was a calculated gamble predicated on the idea that the paucity of attacking options left available to him would compel FSG to grant him his wish to sign Dempsey.

The inherent risk was that FSG would not back down on its belief that 29-year-olds, even ones who scored 22 goals last season, are not the future of the club. Note to Anfield: Robin van Persie is also 29. The Boston-based investment group sanctioned an offer for Dempsey but it was a half-hearted attempt with sources at the London club insisting that the bid was £3 million, although Liverpool dispute this version of events.

FSG had been willing to approve the recruitment of Daniel Sturridge, six years Dempsey’s junior, from Chelsea on loan with a view to a permanent transfer but Rodgers had been less keen. It came down to a battle of wills and Rodgers lost as his employers favoured their own philosophy and transfer strategy over their manager’s judgment. Yesterday Arsenal took advantage but it is hard to imagine, given Liverpool’s chronic lack of firepower, that Arsène Wenger’s side will be the last side to do so.

Rodgers now has a squad that is not fit for purpose and in allowing that to happen, FSG has taken a gamble of its own by putting performance and points at risk for the sake of its principles. It had the opportunity to recruit a player with the potential to give Liverpool at least a degree of the cutting edge that they so clearly lack but preferred to adhere to its own beliefs. With each Premier League place worth about £750,000 in additional prize money there is also a financial element to the risk and a possibility that signing Dempsey, even for a £6 million fee, could have turned out to be cost effective .

As the club that perhaps best captures the pre and post credit crunch era — bought on easy credit, taken to the brink of administration — there is something apt about Liverpool being at the heart of a debate about whether they should continue with austerity measures or spend their way out of the trouble that they find themselves in. But with three games of the season gone Liverpool have scored only two goals and neither came from open play.

Tom Werner, their chairman, claimed earlier this year that the club has “the resources to compete with anyone in football”. On the evidence of a summer in which too few cheques have been signed for Rodgers’s liking and one of his key transfer targets has been missed, that already seems little more than a fanciful boast.

[bkkjames]

There was only one change we really needed to make in the summer... strengthen up-front. Instead they made loads of changes and ended up decimating the strike force. It would have been nice to have Bellamy, Carroll or Kuyt on the bench yesterday...

I think we all agree we should give Rodgers time but I am starting to think that getting the fans to think like that was one of the reasons the owners' hired him (and sacked Dalglish so suddenly) as well him being easier to keep quiet while they "reduce the wage bill".

I wouldn't mind weakening the playing squad if that meant they would invest in a new stadium / redevelopment of Anfield but I don't expect any developments on that front...

think that's becoming clearer now - absentee owners with an incompetent managing director in place, no director of football, no scouting staff and even the sports science guys were let go in the summer. got the wages of kuyt, bellamy, maxi rodriguez, adam, carroll, spearing, aquilani all off the books. no stadium in sight but they want to ramp up the commercial activity around the world as much as they can to increase the brand exposure.

they bought the club for a knockdown price, have put very little into it, and are fattening it up for a sale and a healthy profit. i wonder how david moores sleeps at night these days?

thought they stumped up for 100 million big ones last year no?

[StevieH]

thought they stumped up for 100 million big ones last year no?

there you go with your tabloid headlines again james. try reading the smaller type in articles now and then.

[StevieH]

Tom Werner, their chairman, claimed earlier this year that the club has “the resources to compete with anyone in football”. On the evidence of a summer in which too few cheques have been signed for Rodgers’s liking and one of his key transfer targets has been missed, that already seems little more than a fanciful boast.

this needs repeating again, and again, and again. it's not about rodgers any more than it was about benitez when hicks, gillett and purslow set about using him as a pinata in the media either. it's the 'businessmen' owners looking for an easy profit and the administrators like purslow and ayre who are little empire builders who think they know more about football than men who have worked in football their entire lives.

FSG have no interest in the future success of this football club. feels like we're almost back to where we were under H&G, albeit without the quite such blatant hands in the till. when the club is so badly mismanaged off the field it barely matters what happens on it since you're hamstrung from day one again.

[bkkjames]

thought they stumped up for 100 million big ones last year no?

there you go with your tabloid headlines again james. try reading the smaller type in articles now and then.

sorry stevie, no tiime for reading all the details, rely on you to do that. its your team

[smokie36]

All the money stuff aside I thought your side played well yesterday, the team fought hard for chances and created some good stuff....just lacking a bit in front of goal. II'm sure Rodgers will find a way to get goals soon enough.

[StevieH]

All the money stuff aside I thought your side played well yesterday, the team fought hard for chances and created some good stuff....just lacking a bit in front of goal. II'm sure Rodgers will find a way to get goals soon enough.

there were flashes again, yeah. joe allen is a terrific player and his ball retention is outstanding. glen johnson's playing really well. sterling and shelvey are showing great promise.

goals aren't just going to occur as if by magic though. yesterday suarez was coming deep looking for the ball then turning into trouble and arsenal were lapping it up. the lack of a genuine striker was really obvious, as when you had suarez and borini buzzing in the channels there was literally nobody in the box. no striker making runs to the front post, showing for the ball into feet in the area to try and make a change, just nothing. and this is us until january at least now.

we're that comically-run at the moment that i won't be surprised to see us sign michael bloody owen.

[nellyp]

What ever we do to try and win a game, can we please tell the players to try to be available in the box in case we get a cross in. If Suarez is going to be our main attack then he needs to stop being out wide and being so deep. Either him or Borini need to be in the box, followed by at least on midfielder (I don't care who)

[CiaranO]

As a life long Reds fan this whole situation I find very unsettling and very strange. I did not agree with the sacking of Kenny Dalglish and the whole revelation that if he had one the FA cup he still would have been fired as the league position was un-acceptable. So they appoint Mr. Rodgers.....(and you have to believe based on the fact they sacked KK bc of poor league position, that league position is number one on the agenda this season). So what do they do. They allow and sell, some good solid players, to leave and they dont replace them. There bench yesterday had no options on it. A few injuries and I can tell you LFC will be in a lot of trouble.

So the question has to be asked has FSG stitched Rodgers up? There really is no way with that squad they are going to be close to the top 4......so where does that leave Rodgers position at the end of the season..? Based on the criteria they used to sack KK he will be out the door too............

[MrRed]

All the money stuff aside I thought your side played well yesterday, the team fought hard for chances and created some good stuff....just lacking a bit in front of goal. II'm sure Rodgers will find a way to get goals soon enough.

Has he resorted to picking himself?

[CiaranO]

All the money stuff aside I thought your side played well yesterday, the team fought hard for chances and created some good stuff....just lacking a bit in front of goal. II'm sure Rodgers will find a way to get goals soon enough.

Has he resorted to picking himself?

hardly since he had no playing career worth mentioning

[MrRed]

All the money stuff aside I thought your side played well yesterday, the team fought hard for chances and created some good stuff....just lacking a bit in front of goal. II'm sure Rodgers will find a way to get goals soon enough.

Has he resorted to picking himself?

hardly since he had no playing career worth mentioning

Sarcasm

[uptheos]

"OK time to change tactics, bring on Carroll"......................"oh <deleted>"

[Chicog]

All the money stuff aside I thought your side played well yesterday, the team fought hard for chances and created some good stuff....just lacking a bit in front of goal. II'm sure Rodgers will find a way to get goals soon enough.

Has he resorted to picking himself?

hardly since he had no playing career worth mentioning

I doubt he could have done worse than Stewart Downing though.

[smokie36]

"OK time to change tactics, bring on Carroll"......................"oh <deleted>"

Oops mistaken identity.

Edited September 3, 2012 by smokie36

[StevieH]

"OK time to change tactics, bring on Carroll"......................"oh <deleted>"

one of the concerns about brendan rodgers is that he doesn't change tactics. he has one way of playing and doesn't seem to be a fan of plan bs. think when teams have worked you out, as arsenal did yesterday, it can make you really straighforward to defend against.

[bkkjames]

"OK time to change tactics, bring on Carroll"......................"oh <deleted>"

one of the concerns about brendan rodgers is that he doesn't change tactics. he has one way of playing and doesn't seem to be a fan of plan bs. think when teams have worked you out, as arsenal did yesterday, it can make you really straighforward to defend against.

bit early to dump on Rogers isnt it stevie, isnt is modus operandi to do this once they have been fired like Roy? lol

[theblether]

I think this article says it all.......

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/19458601

Brendan Rogers has made a tactical mistake, he destroyed Andy Carroll's confidence by declaring him surplus to requirements weeks ago and then waits till the next to last minute before releasing him on loan, and then fails to replace him.

It's a diabolical managerial error, now the story of friction with the board will run and we Liverpool fans are being sold down the swanee again. At this rate we'll be lucky to be top 8. Shocking.

except the article is completely wide of the mark and phil mcnulty is a blert.

rodgers never wanted carroll. he wanted him out because he would not use him in the tactics he wanted to work towards. he told the owners and ian ayre this and they said that if rodgers loaned carroll out and got his wages off the books they would fund a replacement forward, namely dempsey. then this never happened. the manager was lied to by the administrators. yet again. we've been here before and we know how it ends.

It's not as wide of the mark as you think..........more or less from the minute that Rodgers walked into Anfield he destroyed Carroll, it was out and out bad man management and it's down to him and him alone.

Now we are in the worst of all worlds.........it's a complete shambles and a self inflected wound.

[StevieH]

It's not as wide of the mark as you think..........more or less from the minute that Rodgers walked into Anfield he destroyed Carroll, it was out and out bad man management and it's down to him and him alone.

Now we are in the worst of all worlds.........it's a complete shambles and a self inflected wound.

'destroyed'? bit melodramatic no? the manager deciding that the player doesn't suit his way of playing is a fair enough decision. and one which he made on the understanding that at least one replacement would be signed. manager hung out to dry by owners over promised resources and signings. as i say, we've been here before.

[wellred]

There's nothing wrong with Rogers tactics. We had a lot of possession yesterday but were unable to make it count due to careless play by Gerrard and Suarez.

Rogers can't fit Carroll into his system so he made it known early he can't use him. That's fair IMO and he even said yesterday in the post match pressed had he known he wouldn't be getting in another striker he wouldn't have let him go. Now we have to get rat boy in.

Open your eyes people he's had the rug pulled out from under him. Why don't we have a proper MD? Ayres should have been shown the door once FSG came in but he was kept on in good faith - mistake

What's happening with the stadium? 2 years on and we are applying to erect some tents to house a couple of thousand ect.

Werner said when they first arrived they didn't have to sell to buy - lie, they could compete with anyone - lie. We lost out on Clint Dempsey to Spurs who got hi for 6mil. It says a lot when we can't even afford that. These yanks are even worse than the last lot. Time to get te yanks out banners back?

I'm fuming. Don't these cretins realise that by being tight for a few mil more they have left us without a no 9 for te season? We don't have a full squad and a poor season could lead to an exodus of players at the end of the season which will cost FSG 10's of millions.

At least Kraft had the balls to say he couldn't compete. These lot haven't a clue. We are just another business in the portfolio to them. They should sell us and stick to baseball or selling burgers.

[theblether]

It's not as wide of the mark as you think..........more or less from the minute that Rodgers walked into Anfield he destroyed Carroll, it was out and out bad man management and it's down to him and him alone.

Now we are in the worst of all worlds.........it's a complete shambles and a self inflected wound.

'destroyed'? bit melodramatic no? the manager deciding that the player doesn't suit his way of playing is a fair enough decision. and one which he made on the understanding that at least one replacement would be signed. manager hung out to dry by owners over promised resources and signings. as i say, we've been here before.

Stevie.......I've supported Liverpool for 35 years.......we can argue black and blue on this if you like.

Rodgers made a mistake......he had slated and denigrated Carroll before even seeing him in a training session......in fact to my recollection Carroll was still on holiday when it was announced he was a goner. It's just ridiculous man management and a complete shambles.

edit to answer Wellred.......

I agree with you..........and in as much as Rodgers doesn't think that Carroll can play to his system we're now two injuries away from having no strikers.

Not very clever.

Edited September 3, 2012 by theblether

[StevieH]

It's not as wide of the mark as you think..........more or less from the minute that Rodgers walked into Anfield he destroyed Carroll, it was out and out bad man management and it's down to him and him alone.

Now we are in the worst of all worlds.........it's a complete shambles and a self inflected wound.

'destroyed'? bit melodramatic no? the manager deciding that the player doesn't suit his way of playing is a fair enough decision. and one which he made on the understanding that at least one replacement would be signed. manager hung out to dry by owners over promised resources and signings. as i say, we've been here before.

Stevie.......I've supported Liverpool for 35 years.......we can argue black and blue on this if you like.

Rodgers made a mistake......he had slated and denigrated Carroll before even seeing him in a training session......in fact to my recollection Carroll was still on holiday when it was announced he was a goner. It's just ridiculous man management and a complete shambles.

edit to answer Wellred.......

I agree with you..........and in as much as Rodgers doesn't think that Carroll can play to his system we're now two injuries away from having no strikers.

Not very clever.

come on mate, give me some quotes where rodgers has 'destroyed', 'slated' and 'denigrated' carroll. because i don't think he's done any such thing once. saying 'we'll listen to offers for andy carroll' is not slating him. fair's fair here.

[rijit]

It's not as wide of the mark as you think..........more or less from the minute that Rodgers walked into Anfield he destroyed Carroll, it was out and out bad man management and it's down to him and him alone.

Now we are in the worst of all worlds.........it's a complete shambles and a self inflected wound.

'destroyed'? bit melodramatic no? the manager deciding that the player doesn't suit his way of playing is a fair enough decision. and one which he made on the understanding that at least one replacement would be signed. manager hung out to dry by owners over promised resources and signings. as i say, we've been here before.

Stevie.......I've supported Liverpool for 35 years.......we can argue black and blue on this if you like.

Rodgers made a mistake......he had slated and denigrated Carroll before even seeing him in a training session......in fact to my recollection Carroll was still on holiday when it was announced he was a goner. It's just ridiculous man management and a complete shambles.

edit to answer Wellred.......

I agree with you..........and in as much as Rodgers doesn't think that Carroll can play to his system we're now two injuries away from having no strikers.

Not very clever.

come on mate, give me some quotes where rodgers has 'destroyed', 'slated' and 'denigrated' carroll. because i don't think he's done any such thing once. saying 'we'll listen to offers for andy carroll' is not slating him. fair's fair here.

W'ell listen to offers might not be a slap in the face to a reserve team striker , but to a 35 mil pound striker brought in, 2 presumably take liverpool on and up , it could well be perceived as such. My take on the 'failure' to sign Dempsey is that you made an early bid, dempsey probably said ok lets see what else is on the table, last min dot com we, spurs, needed a striker so we met fulhams valuation i believe and, wages wise, probably out did you,it's all speculation but liverpool maybe hesitated or didnt have the mechanism to respond quickly enuf in place or you could have just wanted to stick by your original valuation like you did with siggy, Who really knows. Slating Rodgers transfer nouse off though!! bit harsh when he pulled sahin out from under the arswipes noses.For me your in a bit of a similar place2spurs in that rodgers team will not take shape over night and will probably take a season, at least 2 shape, But the question really is will he or vb be given the time needed? History says not, but we will see. one things written in stone is that changing football managers and even more so the clubs footballing philosophy, is not cheap.