Liverpool F.c.

[StevieH]

Not in a court of law under the jurisdiction of her Majesty.......by a panel under the jurisdiction of SAF's jesters doesn't really count.

It counted because he missed eight games because of it, and whether or not you agree with that is irrelevant and doesn't change the fact that your claim: he wasn't found guilty of racially abusing anyone is a lie.

on the balance of probabilities by a panel of three FA blazers. the language suarez used wasn't racist and wasn't intended as racial abuse. the fact that it was misinterpreted as such by a panel of three old farts to suit an agenda still doesn't make him guilty or a racist.

john terry was found not guilty in a court of law. if suarez's case had been tried to similarly exacting standards he'd have been found not guilty too.

[carmine]

Not in a court of law under the jurisdiction of her Majesty.......by a panel under the jurisdiction of SAF's jesters doesn't really count.

It counted because he missed eight games because of it, and whether or not you agree with that is irrelevant and doesn't change the fact that your claim: he wasn't found guilty of racially abusing anyone is a lie.

on the balance of probabilities by a panel of three FA blazers. the language suarez used wasn't racist and wasn't intended as racial abuse. the fact that it was misinterpreted as such by a panel of three old farts to suit an agenda still doesn't make him guilty or a racist.

john terry was found not guilty in a court of law. if suarez's case had been tried to similarly exacting standards he'd have been found not guilty too.

True enough, he would never have been convicted in a court of law on any evidence that i heard. maybe i missed something.

And i put it to you that in Her Majesty's courts Patrice Evra would have been deemed an unreliable witness.

[rixalex]

Not in a court of law under the jurisdiction of her Majesty.......by a panel under the jurisdiction of SAF's jesters doesn't really count.

It counted because he missed eight games because of it, and whether or not you agree with that is irrelevant and doesn't change the fact that your claim: he wasn't found guilty of racially abusing anyone is a lie.

on the balance of probabilities by a panel of three FA blazers. the language suarez used wasn't racist and wasn't intended as racial abuse. the fact that it was misinterpreted as such by a panel of three old farts to suit an agenda still doesn't make him guilty or a racist.

john terry was found not guilty in a court of law. if suarez's case had been tried to similarly exacting standards he'd have been found not guilty too.

Ifs and buts that do not change the fact that stating, "he wasn't found guilty of racially abusing anyone" is plainly not true. He was found guilty. You guys disagree. Big surprise. Your minds were made up before the outcome.

[carmine]

Not sure about the "ifs and buts" Rix but i do find myself thinking back to the accusations Evra made against the Chelsea groundsman that were exposed as a flimsy tissue of lies!

The man is a proven liar and be laughed out of any court of law.

[rixalex]

Not sure about the "ifs and buts" Rix but i do find myself thinking back to the accusations Evra made against the Chelsea groundsman that were exposed as a flimsy tissue of lies!

The man is a proven liar and be laughed out of any court of law.

You would be laughed out of the jury of any court of law for having made your mind up, as you did, right from the off-set before you or anyone actually knew all the details.

I don't dispute all the things that are being said about the FA, the panel, nor the things said about Evra for that matter, but at the end of the day, the process that the case went through is the process that exists. Had Suarez been found not guilty, whatever misgivings i might of had, i would have accepted that and would have expected the players to accept it too, and had i come on here and said "actually he was found guilty of racially abusing Evra", would you not have said "what the <deleted> are you talking about, no he wasn't!"? I believe you would have.

All i was asking for was for the statement "he wasn't found guilty of racially abusing anyone" to be accepted as the untrue nonsense that it is.

[BangrakBob]

Not in a court of law under the jurisdiction of her Majesty.......by a panel under the jurisdiction of SAF's jesters doesn't really count.

It counted because he missed eight games because of it, and whether or not you agree with that is irrelevant and doesn't change the fact that your claim: he wasn't found guilty of racially abusing anyone is a lie.

I guess Nelson Mandela's 27 years in prison counted, whether I agree with that or not is irrelevant but if I did agree I'd be a liar

From Suarez to Mandela. Deary me...

I guess, why admit you were wrong when you can dream up a ridiculous nonsensical analogy.

well you are using the FA as an institute that used a kangaroo court to scapegoat a player for their own and others ends to justify a lawful claim of "guilt" which just wouldn't stand in a court of law, therefore i disagree.

[Jimjim]

Not sure about the "ifs and buts" Rix but i do find myself thinking back to the accusations Evra made against the Chelsea groundsman that were exposed as a flimsy tissue of lies!

The man is a proven liar and be laughed out of any court of law.

I absolutely hate to say this in a sense, but to be fair, everything I have read about the Evra case with the groundsman was that Evra did not hear any racial remark (or at least says he didn't); it was two Man U coaches that made that accusation. There are even Liverpool fan sites that have conceded this. He must have heard other aggressive things said to him but never made the race charge in that instance, it was Phelan and a goal keeping coach. That was the official line anyway.

[carmine]

Not sure about the "ifs and buts" Rix but i do find myself thinking back to the accusations Evra made against the Chelsea groundsman that were exposed as a flimsy tissue of lies!

The man is a proven liar and be laughed out of any court of law.

You would be laughed out of the jury of any court of law for having made your mind up, as you did, right from the off-set before you or anyone actually knew all the details.

I don't dispute all the things that are being said about the FA, the panel, nor the things said about Evra for that matter, but at the end of the day, the process that the case went through is the process that exists. Had Suarez been found not guilty, whatever misgivings i might of had, i would have accepted that and would have expected the players to accept it too, and had i come on here and said "actually he was found guilty of racially abusing Evra", would you not have said "what the <deleted> are you talking about, no he wasn't!"? I believe you would have.

All i was asking for was for the statement "he wasn't found guilty of racially abusing anyone" to be accepted as the untrue nonsense that it is.

Would i be laughed out of court if i had called for a mistrial on the basis of totally insufficient evidence/ I very much doubt it. The one and only reason that he was found guilty was because it was conducted by the FA and the verdict given by three members of the FA. The more i think of it the whole saga was an absolute disgrace.

[rixalex]

well you are using the FA as an institute that used a kangaroo court to scapegoat a player for their own and others ends to justify a lawful claim of "guilt" which just wouldn't stand in a court of law, therefore i disagree.

Yes i got all that about 10 posts ago. It was an outrage, it was unjust, kangaroo court, John Terry now there's a racist <deleted>, scapegoat ... all opinions on that theme i can accept. Might not agree with it all, but it's your opinion.

He wasn't found guilty of racially abusing anyone remains untrue.

[Jimjim]

ian ayre seems to be great at sorting out marketing deals and establishing corporate partnerships around the world. when it comes to the nuts and bolts of running a football club and signing/selling players, he's a dangerous amateur.

i think there's even a screenshot knocking around from the liverpool website where someone had posted up the new season squad with dempsey in it. bunch of clowns.

I remember that Dempsey on the LFC website thing and I believe it was proven to be photoshopped by someone on the internet being mischievous. It's actually pretty easy to do.

[rijit]

Changing the subject lad's what the fuc's happened to pepe r's form, seems he's gone from hero to zero. I heard that he's been asking unsuccessfully for specialist goalkeeping coaching, the same one that he had under benitez?, could that be the reason or is it just lack of competition?

[rixalex]

Not sure about the "ifs and buts" Rix but i do find myself thinking back to the accusations Evra made against the Chelsea groundsman that were exposed as a flimsy tissue of lies!

The man is a proven liar and be laughed out of any court of law.

You would be laughed out of the jury of any court of law for having made your mind up, as you did, right from the off-set before you or anyone actually knew all the details.

I don't dispute all the things that are being said about the FA, the panel, nor the things said about Evra for that matter, but at the end of the day, the process that the case went through is the process that exists. Had Suarez been found not guilty, whatever misgivings i might of had, i would have accepted that and would have expected the players to accept it too, and had i come on here and said "actually he was found guilty of racially abusing Evra", would you not have said "what the <deleted> are you talking about, no he wasn't!"? I believe you would have.

All i was asking for was for the statement "he wasn't found guilty of racially abusing anyone" to be accepted as the untrue nonsense that it is.

Would i be laughed out of court if i had called for a mistrial on the basis of totally insufficient evidence/ I very much doubt it. The one and only reason that he was found guilty was because it was conducted by the FA and the verdict given by three members of the FA. The more i think of it the whole saga was an absolute disgrace.

For goodness sake, haven't we done this one to death already?

Was he found guilty of racial abuse? Yes or No?

[Jimjim]

Changing the subject lad's what the fuc's happened to pepe r's form, seems he's gone from hero to zero. I heard that he's been asking unsuccessfully for specialist goalkeeping coaching, the same one that he had under benitez?, could that be the reason or is it just lack of competition?

yep he was great under Xavi Valero. I even heard a rumor that Valero was going to come back this season, but that was when Kenny was still in charge. If what I've read is true, Pepe desperately wants him back as they worked well together.

So I don't know if that was true or what, and I don't think you can blame everything on a coach, but I don't see how bringing back Valero would be a bad thing. As far as I've heard he still lives in the area. Not sure if he works now or what, or if he got a cut of that Rafa payoff money from both LFC and Inter. Not sure if he'd even come back by himself, or if he's just waiting until Rafa gets a job somewhere again to go with him.

[rijit]

Changing the subject lad's what the fuc's happened to pepe r's form, seems he's gone from hero to zero. I heard that he's been asking unsuccessfully for specialist goalkeeping coaching, the same one that he had under benitez?, could that be the reason or is it just lack of competition?

yep he was great under Xavi Valero. I even heard a rumor that Valero was going to come back this season, but that was when Kenny was still in charge. If what I've read is true, Pepe desperately wants him back as they worked well together.

So I don't know if that was true or what, and I don't think you can blame everything on a coach, but I don't see how bringing back Valero would be a bad thing. As far as I've heard he still lives in the area. Not sure if he works now or what, or if he got a cut of that Rafa payoff money from both LFC and Inter. Not sure if he'd even come back by himself, or if he's just waiting until Rafa gets a job somewhere again to go with him.

Agree cant blame all on coaching. Could he have reached a 'comfort zone'? he's been a fixture for so long in your team, cant remember when the last time his place got anywhere near threatened,and we all know competition is defo a healthy thing.

[rixalex]

Agree cant blame all on coaching. Could he have reached a 'comfort zone'? he's been a fixture for so long in your team, cant remember when the last time his place got anywhere near threatened,and we all know competition is defo a healthy thing.

He's a quality keeper and to be honest, to have gone as long as he has, without any dip in form, is pretty amazing. It's only been a couple of games. I think he deserves full support.

[StevieH]

Not in a court of law under the jurisdiction of her Majesty.......by a panel under the jurisdiction of SAF's jesters doesn't really count.

It counted because he missed eight games because of it, and whether or not you agree with that is irrelevant and doesn't change the fact that your claim: he wasn't found guilty of racially abusing anyone is a lie.

on the balance of probabilities by a panel of three FA blazers. the language suarez used wasn't racist and wasn't intended as racial abuse. the fact that it was misinterpreted as such by a panel of three old farts to suit an agenda still doesn't make him guilty or a racist.

john terry was found not guilty in a court of law. if suarez's case had been tried to similarly exacting standards he'd have been found not guilty too.

Ifs and buts that do not change the fact that stating, "he wasn't found guilty of racially abusing anyone" is plainly not true. He was found guilty. You guys disagree. Big surprise. Your minds were made up before the outcome.

no, i made my mind up when i followed the trial and read the FA official report. he used a spanish word to a spanish-speaking opponent and was deemed guilty by a panel of three middle-aged white men none of whom speak spanish. it was a kangaroo court which sees fit to judge people on 'the balance of probabilities'. which is ludicrous. small wonder that the FA tribunals of this type have a 99.5% 'conviction' rate. in a genuine court of law it would have been laughed out of the place.

and what suarez said, in spanish, to a spanish speaker, is still not a defined racial abuse term.

[StevieH]

Changing the subject lad's what the fuc's happened to pepe r's form, seems he's gone from hero to zero. I heard that he's been asking unsuccessfully for specialist goalkeeping coaching, the same one that he had under benitez?, could that be the reason or is it just lack of competition?

i think reina misses valero, benitez and a few of his mates to be honest. alonso, torres etc. he's got a bit lazy in my opinion. think there's also something in the fact that we're not playing the big european games against top opposition any more too. he just seemed more switched on then.

[BangrakBob]

That goal against Hearts at home looked like he wasn't even there, if you watch him from the corner kick he's not focused on the fact a shot may be coming and the ball was only 20 yards away. He wasn't on his line when the corner was taken. Usually you'd expect him to dive forward take, bread and butter.

I think after that the goal the on the weekend was just a lack of confidence. Goalies always seem to have occasional dips in more than 1 match.

Goalkeepers are confidence players, like strikers but when a goalie misses it obviously has a greater effect on a game and I expect the confidence. Fans and fellow players are also less forgiving in this regard which i'm sure must have an affect on the mind.

He's a great pro and he has been one of the best keepers we've ever had, coach or no coach issues he'll be back.

International break might do him some good. Get his mojo back.

Edited September 6, 2012 by BangrakBob

[wellred]

Ironically everyone seemed to miss the fact that Evra initially lowered his hand when Suarez was moving to offer his.

Nothing to do with irony that people missed the fact that that the angle of Evra's arm moved down by about 10 degrees, but to do with the fact that whatever the angle, Evra's arm was out and his hand was open, and directed at a man who was found guilty, in case you missed that bit, of racially abusing him. In that sort of situation, Suarez should have simply farking shaken the hand being offered, either that or told his manager before he took to the field that this was going to be a problem for him so that the manager could find a way of avoiding all the media shitstorm that Suarez inflicted on not only himself, but on the manager and on the club.

He wasn't found guilty of racially abusing anyone.

Liverpool's Luis Suarez has been handed an eight-match ban and a £40,000 fine by the Football Association after being found guilty of racially abusing Manchester United's Patrice Evra.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/16186556

Danny Pacheco tweeted to Glen Johnson before the Euro's 'good luck negrito'. I didn't see anyone moaning about that. The whole Suarez thing was a media witch fest driven by taggart. Funny how the FA chose to defer the Terry case to after the Euros but didn't waste any time in trying to pin Suarez down. I hope when they meet again he refuses to shake his hand.

[sharecropper]

We seem to have time-travelled back to last season with the blinkers coming down and red steam rising over that cheating idiot, while the rest of us scratch our heads in bemusement, wondering what else he's likely to do to destroy Liverpool, apart from making a fool of himself, the club and undermining his manager, which contributed to him getting the sack.

Happy days.

[nellyp]

Not sure about the "ifs and buts" Rix but i do find myself thinking back to the accusations Evra made against the Chelsea groundsman that were exposed as a flimsy tissue of lies!

The man is a proven liar and be laughed out of any court of law.

You would be laughed out of the jury of any court of law for having made your mind up, as you did, right from the off-set before you or anyone actually knew all the details.

I don't dispute all the things that are being said about the FA, the panel, nor the things said about Evra for that matter, but at the end of the day, the process that the case went through is the process that exists. Had Suarez been found not guilty, whatever misgivings i might of had, i would have accepted that and would have expected the players to accept it too, and had i come on here and said "actually he was found guilty of racially abusing Evra", would you not have said "what the <deleted> are you talking about, no he wasn't!"? I believe you would have.

All i was asking for was for the statement "he wasn't found guilty of racially abusing anyone" to be accepted as the untrue nonsense that it is.

Would i be laughed out of court if i had called for a mistrial on the basis of totally insufficient evidence/ I very much doubt it. The one and only reason that he was found guilty was because it was conducted by the FA and the verdict given by three members of the FA. The more i think of it the whole saga was an absolute disgrace.

For goodness sake, haven't we done this one to death already?

Was he found guilty of racial abuse? Yes or No?

No. he was found guilty of using racially offensive language . Not the same as racially abusive language. before the obvious "what's the difference" uproar. I offended his wife and I abused his wife have totally different meanings. he was however found guilty,

[rijit]

Agree cant blame all on coaching. Could he have reached a 'comfort zone'? he's been a fixture for so long in your team, cant remember when the last time his place got anywhere near threatened,and we all know competition is defo a healthy thing.

He's a quality keeper and to be honest, to have gone as long as he has, without any dip in form, is pretty amazing. It's only been a couple of games. I think he deserves full support.

theres been mentioned he was slipping slightly last season but yeah unquestionably he's defo been one of the best, but, nothing lasts for ever.

[BangrakBob]

striker crisis, what striker crisis? first goal was quality, second composed....get him on the park BG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTJkRjYhjQg&feature=watch_response

Edited September 6, 2012 by BangrakBob

[wellred]

We seem to have time-travelled back to last season with the blinkers coming down and red steam rising over that cheating idiot, while the rest of us scratch our heads in bemusement, wondering what else he's likely to do to destroy Liverpool, apart from making a fool of himself, the club and undermining his manager, which contributed to him getting the sack.

Happy days.

It won't have helped but Kenny buried himself without any additional need from Suarez. For those who say Benitez wasted a lot of money well Kenny wasted about half of what Rafa spent in 2 1/2 years in 1. Initially when he took over as caretaker he had us playing nice football but once he took charge proper he reverted to a more direct style reminiscent of the Newcastle of the 90's. I think thats what promoted his pursual of Carroll tbf.

As for Suarez he's been one of the brightest sparks we've had since Torres and he just signed a new contract. We need to be careful not to burden him with having to score all the goals though as he isn't a 20 goal a season striker.

I see this season as an opportunity to blood the youngsters. Let's face it FSG have essentially left us without a no.9 and the squad is bare to the bone. They can't seriously be expecting anything this season so Rogers should use this chance to experiment and install his style of play. If they sack him it sets a dangerous tone as he was their choice.

[rixalex]

no, i made my mind up when i followed the trial and read the FA official report.

Well of course only you know what you were thinking when this story came to light, and whether or not you had any preconceived notions about who was guilty of what, but i do recall having many discussions on this thread on this topic, before we really knew any of the details about who said what, and many assumptions were being made here then.

And not only here, everything coming out of Liverpool football club right from the very beginning was this man could not possibly be racist or have acted in a racist manner, culminating in the ridiculous t-shirt printing stunt. How could they possibly know? They spent a total of how many hours with this man? Ridiculous to think you can know whether someone harbours racist thoughts or not, in the amount of time they knew him. Not that i don't understand the importance of teams sticking together and standing up for each other, but there are ways of doing that without taking such a childish "he's our player, he can't of done anything wrong" type attitude.

and what suarez said, in spanish, to a spanish speaker, is still not a defined racial abuse term.

Whether or not Suarez really was so totally oblivious to the culture he was living and working in, and to what it is an acceptable way to address someone and what is not, and whether or not we believe in the context he was speaking in, that the term he used wasn't meant in an offensive manner, is something we will probably never know. I personally have my doubts.

Either way, he and anyone else who comes to play in the Premiership, needs to be aware that what might be an acceptable way of speaking where they come from, may not be acceptable where they are now, even if they are speaking in their own language. They aren't working in a small office surrounded by a few people, they are working in front of dozens of cameras that broadcast their every move around the world to millions. There is a responsibility that comes with that.

When i started working in Thailand, my job didn't put me in the gaze of millions around the country, but still, my company required that i undertake an introduction to Thai culture course to make me aware of how things might be different to what i was accustomed to, and to help me avoid acting in a culturally insensitive manner. Perhaps Liverpool Football Club should have sat down with him one morning when he arrived and told him a few do's and don't's: OK, now, you are better off not calling people "negrito". Yes, we know that's a term you use where you come from, but here, "negrito" or any version of that word can cause great offence and get you into trouble. Better off calling someone a <deleted> if the need arises"

At the end of the day, my own feeling is regarding the verdict and the punishment, an 8 match ban was too severe, but some sort of a signal needed to be sent out, and that required some sort of punishment. In addition, there were things revealed about the way that Evra acted and things he said, that should have also been punished. I think that would have been reasonable.

But i fear, with blatantly factually incorrect comments like "he wasn't found guilty of racially abusing anyone", being made, and causing not so much as a batted eye-lid, or a "no, actually that isn't true", from anyone here, reason has gone out the window and my breath is being wasted.

[carmine]

no, i made my mind up when i followed the trial and read the FA official report.

Well of course only you know what you were thinking when this story came to light, and whether or not you had any preconceived notions about who was guilty of what, but i do recall having many discussions on this thread on this topic, before we really knew any of the details about who said what, and many assumptions were being made here then.

And not only here, everything coming out of Liverpool football club right from the very beginning was this man could not possibly be racist or have acted in a racist manner, culminating in the ridiculous t-shirt printing stunt. How could they possibly know? They spent a total of how many hours with this man? Ridiculous to think you can know whether someone harbours racist thoughts or not, in the amount of time they knew him. Not that i don't understand the importance of teams sticking together and standing up for each other, but there are ways of doing that without taking such a childish "he's our player, he can't of done anything wrong" type attitude.

and what suarez said, in spanish, to a spanish speaker, is still not a defined racial abuse term.

Whether or not Suarez really was so totally oblivious to the culture he was living and working in, and to what it is an acceptable way to address someone and what is not, and whether or not we believe in the context he was speaking in, that the term he used wasn't meant in an offensive manner, is something we will probably never know. I personally have my doubts.

Either way, he and anyone else who comes to play in the Premiership, needs to be aware that what might be an acceptable way of speaking where they come from, may not be acceptable where they are now, even if they are speaking in their own language. They aren't working in a small office surrounded by a few people, they are working in front of dozens of cameras that broadcast their every move around the world to millions. There is a responsibility that comes with that.

When i started working in Thailand, my job didn't put me in the gaze of millions around the country, but still, my company required that i undertake an introduction to Thai culture course to make me aware of how things might be different to what i was accustomed to, and to help me avoid acting in a culturally insensitive manner. Perhaps Liverpool Football Club should have sat down with him one morning when he arrived and told him a few do's and don't's: OK, now, you are better off not calling people "negrito". Yes, we know that's a term you use where you come from, but here, "negrito" or any version of that word can cause great offence and get you into trouble. Better off calling someone a <deleted> if the need arises"

At the end of the day, my own feeling is regarding the verdict and the punishment, an 8 match ban was too severe, but some sort of a signal needed to be sent out, and that required some sort of punishment. In addition, there were things revealed about the way that Evra acted and things he said, that should have also been punished. I think that would have been reasonable.

But i fear, with blatantly factually incorrect comments like "he wasn't found guilty of racially abusing anyone", being made, and causing not so much as a batted eye-lid, or a "no, actually that isn't true", from anyone here, reason has gone out the window and my breath is being wasted.

Rix, this subject has been done to death...please drop it. The answer is he was found guilty by an FA kangaroo court which is a meaningless verdict in most peoples minds and the whole thing would be laughed out of a real court.

[CiaranO]

The point of the whole Suarez incident is that the FA believe they are outside of the law. I believe Suarez said something and I think we can all agree on that, but if the evidence was clearly there the police would have been involved. but simply were not. In John Terrys case he was found not guilty by a court of law and now is being investigated by the FA. Are the FA saying that they have better investigative skills than the police? Apparently so......

The FA are out to make statements.....thats it..............regardless of the evidence that exists...............its a dangerous game that they are playing......

[davejonesbkk]

jeeee-SUS this thread is a mess! People STILL going on about Suarez - Evra and now apparently Reina needs specialist coaching, did he suddenly forget over the summer or something??

[CiaranO]

I

jeeee-SUS this thread is a mess! People STILL going on about Suarez - Evra and now apparently Reina needs specialist coaching, did he suddenly forget over the summer or something??

I would say he is just disillusioned by the happenings at LFC this season - like us all................

[rixalex]

Rix, this subject has been done to death...please drop it. The answer is he was found guilty by an FA kangaroo court which is a meaningless verdict in most peoples minds and the whole thing would be laughed out of a real court.

Mate, if the resurrection of this tiresome subject had began with yes he was found guilty of racial abuse but... then fair enough, i might not of agreed with all the various buts that followed, but i would of accepted that as being someone's opinion. But it didn't, it began with, he wasn't found guilty of racially abusing anyone, and this is plain untruthful nonsense that i don't accept... i don't think you would of either if you hadn't been so sidetracked with jumping on the chance to tell us what a despicable person Evra is and what a bunch of clowns the FA are.

As i said before, had he been found not guilty and had i come on here a couple of days ago proclaiming that in fact he had, do you not think that would have warranted a response along the lines of "what the f*** are you talking about?"? I think it just might have.