Liverpool F.c.

[nisei23]

What's going on with the Arsenal game? it's supposed to be on True Sport 1 right now but they're showing La Liga instead.

Found it, it's on Channel 27 for some reason.

[Devil]

Half Time... Get in Robbie Keane (screamer)

Great come back towards then end of the 1st half, could of been 2 or 3 up.

[The Vulcan]

Half Time... Get in Robbie Keane (screamer)

Great come back towards then end of the 1st half, could of been 2 or 3 up.

Absolutely - 2 sitters missed. Them Gooners are lucky to be level at half time. And what was that Keane yellow all about!

[The Vulcan]

Totally dismayed at the substitutions. Like for like against 10 men just didn't make sense. Then we bring on the additional attacker with 5 minutes left! Far too late.

Too bloody cautious.

Another opportunity thrown away and very frustrating.

[Jimjim]

Where the goals gonna come from? Eh, Robbie Keane.

It wasn't thrown away after the red card, in my opinion. Should have taken the chances at the end of the first half and that would be job done. I thought Kuyt to Gerrard was a goal for sure and yet the pass was so agonizingly just a hair too far past the captain. Arsenal were very well organized after the red card, so you have to give them credit for that. I can't take away from them for that, although again it's too many opportunities with not enough scores. That's the life of a fan, though. If just, if just...We always say that. Could have been a win if just one of the glorious chances Gerrard, Kuyt, Lucas, Agger, or El Zhar had would have gone in the goal, dam_n it. But, none of them did and that's life.

So, tally for the Big 4 vs. the Big 4 now that they've all played each other once in the first half: Liverpool -- 7 points, Arsenal -- 7 points, Man United -- 1 point, Chelsea -- 1 point

If Liverpool take 7 points off the Big 4 in the second half they'll be very close to the top or at it, I propose. It will be an indicator of their form. If Chelsea win against Everton which I see likely then Liverpool will be only one point from the top at Christmas. Looking at the bright side of things, that's more than fans have been able to say for a while, yes? However, is that four draws out of the last five? I think what worries me most at this point is form, and obviously it will and must improve for them to keep going on where they are right now. I know it will improve, but how much is the question?

[StevieH]

got to give arsenal credit for their reaction after the red card, they were excellent. thought we played generally alright and if el zhar's header had crept in at the end it'd have been a brilliant three points. a point away to arsenal who've already beaten united and chelsea and minus torres, mascherano and in particular rafa is not so bad.

good points were insua who was excellent, keane who looked more like it, alonso who was typically majestic and lucas who looked a player again. downers were riera's continued slump in form and babel again looking nothing like a player when he came on.

get fit soon nando, please lad.

[The Vulcan]

In the cold light of the next morning I guess it's fair to say that had we been given an away draw at the Emirates BEFORE the game we would have taken it gladly.

It's just that it was there for the taking!

We were so good in the first half. As you say "Jim" it should have been game, set and match at half time.

I'm not gonna talk about "that" ref - complete prat!

Happy Xmas to all

[StevieH]

best ref in the league he is vulcan. generally lets games flow and gets the big calls right far more often than not.

[The Vulcan]

best ref in the league he is vulcan. generally lets games flow and gets the big calls right far more often than not.

Must have had a "bad hair" day then

[maccastime]

got to give arsenal credit for their reaction after the red card, they were excellent. thought we played generally alright and if el zhar's header had crept in at the end it'd have been a brilliant three points. a point away to arsenal who've already beaten united and chelsea and minus torres, mascherano and in particular rafa is not so bad.

good points were insua who was excellent, keane who looked more like it, alonso who was typically majestic and lucas who looked a player again. downers were riera's continued slump in form and babel again looking nothing like a player when he came on.

get fit soon nando, please lad.

[maccastime]

Yes a fairly good result although 3 points would obviously been better,however i agree we started right in their faces,gave them no room to move until they scored then we backed off. If only Stevie would have shot lower...all over red rover...just hope Everton are up to it tonite??

When is Torres resuming??

[The Vulcan]

HAPPY XMAS

TOP OF THE EPL

[Devil]

Ho Ho Ho great news!

[StevieH]

it's a bizarre season this. all the pundits are lining up to say that we're only top because united and chelsea aren't firing and are dropping points. however we're not firing and are dropping points too, plus we've been without our star striker for most of the season. if we can hang onto top spot until torres is back and match fit, and the mancs and chelsea keep up their levels of inconsistency (which is more than possible), we could do this. and if we do i will get drunk for a week.

[bkkjames]

it's a bizarre season this. all the pundits are lining up to say that we're only top because united and chelsea aren't firing and are dropping points. however we're not firing and are dropping points too, plus we've been without our star striker for most of the season. if we can hang onto top spot until torres is back and match fit, and the mancs and chelsea keep up their levels of inconsistency (which is more than possible), we could do this. and if we do i will get drunk for a week.

Sounds like something Arsenal fans said last Xmas.

Suggestion: Enjoy your position now and get drunk over the holidays. If by chance you are still in this position come the end of the year - you can do it again.

[StevieH]

Sounds like something Arsenal fans said last Xmas.

Suggestion: Enjoy your position now and get drunk over the holidays. If by chance you are still in this position come the end of the year - you can do it again.

nah, nothing like arsenal fan comments. and we're a very different outfit to them.

[Jimjim]

I am speaking far too soon, but, is this like Istanbul when Dudek saved two point-blank sure goals at the end of the second half of extra time and at that point it just felt like Liverpool's name was written on the trophy? Could be, could be. I know, I'm speaking way too soon. But we've been top for at least a month, now? Feels like it. Chelsea just can't seem to get past us at this point. So let's see a Boxing Day win, lads!

Interesting to note that while Chelsea and Liverpool drop points, Villa are creeping closer to the top, now only 5 adrift. Their fans must be having a happy Christmas this year. However, I think Villa will have one bad stretch where they don't win for 5-8 matches, like they always seem to do. Or, they'll be improved and be in the top 4 at the end. It'd be nice to see someone else in the top 4 at the close, at the expense of manusuck even better.

Edited December 23, 2008 by Jimjim

[bkkjames]

I am speaking far too soon, but, is this like Istanbul when Dudek saved two point-blank sure goals at the end of the second half of extra time and at that point it just felt like Liverpool's name was written on the trophy? Could be, could be. I know, I'm speaking way too soon. But we've been top for at least a month, now? Feels like it. Chelsea just can't seem to get past us at this point. So let's see a Boxing Day win, lads!

Interesting to note that while Chelsea and Liverpool drop points, Villa are creeping closer to the top, now only 5 adrift. Their fans must be having a happy Christmas this year. However, I think Villa will have one bad stretch where they don't win for 5-8 matches, like they always seem to do. Or, they'll be improved and be in the top 4 at the end. It'd be nice to see someone else in the top 4 at the close, at the expense of manusuck even better.

Well we both know this won't happen so you better just hope for Arsenal mate.

[StevieH]

I am speaking far too soon, but, is this like Istanbul when Dudek saved two point-blank sure goals at the end of the second half of extra time and at that point it just felt like Liverpool's name was written on the trophy? Could be, could be. I know, I'm speaking way too soon. But we've been top for at least a month, now? Feels like it. Chelsea just can't seem to get past us at this point. So let's see a Boxing Day win, lads!

Interesting to note that while Chelsea and Liverpool drop points, Villa are creeping closer to the top, now only 5 adrift. Their fans must be having a happy Christmas this year. However, I think Villa will have one bad stretch where they don't win for 5-8 matches, like they always seem to do. Or, they'll be improved and be in the top 4 at the end. It'd be nice to see someone else in the top 4 at the close, at the expense of manusuck even better.

nah, doesn't feel like istanbul to me jimjim, that had a feeling of fate about it while this just feels fuc_king weird. we're riding our luck at the minute as both chelsea and united are failing to take advantage when we blip, but that might not last forever. we need to start grinding wins out, but it stays very much one game at a time.

[Jimjim]

Well we both know this won't happen so you better just hope for Arsenal mate.

It's Christmas time. Time for Christmas wishes. You better just go ahead and wish for the Carling Cup trophy, as that's all you're gonna get this season.

[bkkjames]

Well we both know this won't happen so you better just hope for Arsenal mate.

It's Christmas time. Time for Christmas wishes. You better just go ahead and wish for the Carling Cup trophy, as that's all you're gonna get this season.

We already have the WORLD CLUB CUP mate, Carling will be #2 (are you still in the competition?), then the FA, EPL and Champions league. That would make 5.

[The Vulcan]

Well we both know this won't happen so you better just hope for Arsenal mate.

It's Christmas time. Time for Christmas wishes. You better just go ahead and wish for the Carling Cup trophy, as that's all you're gonna get this season.

We already have the WORLD CLUB CUP mate, Carling will be #2 (are you still in the competition?), then the FA, EPL and Champions league. That would make 5.

The World Club Cup is about 2 steps down from the "Worthless Cup" in the bragging stakes!

[bkkjames]

Well we both know this won't happen so you better just hope for Arsenal mate.

It's Christmas time. Time for Christmas wishes. You better just go ahead and wish for the Carling Cup trophy, as that's all you're gonna get this season.

We already have the WORLD CLUB CUP mate, Carling will be #2 (are you still in the competition?), then the FA, EPL and Champions league. That would make 5.

The World Club Cup is about 2 steps down from the "Worthless Cup" in the bragging stakes!

and hence why i didn't bring it up until now. at least the shashimi was good i heard.

[redscouse]

as a 41 year old red who went to his first game in 1973 and still holds a season ticket despite a friend using it whilst i have lived in asia for the past 6 years, I have to say the Arsenal result would have been decent if it wasn't for the dropped points against lesser teams such as stoke and hull et al.

While rafa was in hospital recently for his kidney stones the doctors should have also looked for his testicles as he seems to have never had any. People call him a tactical genius, however anyone with any level of intelligence would have gone 442 after the sending off.

rafas subs are always the same and always made at the same times, its a cert that keane will go off and reirra will be replaced by babel. rafa does not know how to make changes to suit the game, sunday was crying out for babel to come on up front and take the dire lucas off (is this guy really from Brazil?).

As for kuyt and rafas desire for him to play every minute of every game, well all i can say is rafa must have got laid in holland about 26 years ago as there can be no other explanation for this donkeys inclusion week in week out, the guy can trap it further than i can kick it. he has no pace, no control, no vision, he cant beat people, in fact all he does is run round for 90 minutes (as does gerrard, mash, alonso et al so it doesn't even make kuyt special in this department, the others do it whilst also being footballers as opposed to the annoying kid in school with no talent but would run around a lot).

i wont go into the money he has wasted on dross since he came but he has had 17 forwards under his control and the best we can do is play 2 of them out of position, babel on the left and kuyt on the right (however I call kuyt a forward in the loosest sense).

Anyway back to rafas balls, putting aside his lack of ability at spotting a footballer, his desire to not lose games rather than try to win them will ensure we will not win the league with him in charge. the points dropped this season against the lesser lights could have had us away and clear, however his desire to stifle our team beggars belief sometimes, his negative substitutions just show his desire to not lose rather than get the win.

We have some talent in our team, let them play football, stop worrying about setting up to counter <deleted> like hull, stoke and wigan and let them worry about getting steam rollered by us in full flow. Get rid of players like kuyt ( he shouldnt even be a squad player let alone a regular starter), dossena is another bad signing from the tactical genius, stop buying young guys to the detriment of the home grown talent because the club set up under rafa means these guys will never see the first team anyway.

i hate to say it but would manure or chavski drew that match on sunday, would they have played with 10 men behind the ball?

we have been lucky that the chavs have not taken advantage, however i fear when the mancs come back they will be heading for number 18 while we are struggling to finish off teams in the bottom half of the table.

i thought rafa had learnt this season, it took 4 years for him to see his over rotation does not work when he has bought players who are not good enough to step in (and why weaken ourselves against lesser teams, i never saw tyson fight with one hand because the other fighter was not as good), lets hope it doesnt take him another 4 years to realise we have some talent and to take the shackles off, especially when we are playing 10 men who are leaving one up front.

but what do I know, he gets paid for it

can he win us the title? yes

will he win it while he continues with poor selections, poor tactics and pointless substitutions? never in a month of sundays unless the other top teams suddenly pack in

Edited December 23, 2008 by redscouse

[StevieH]

and he's won the european cup and la liga and is top of the league at christmas despite being financially hamstrung and continualy battling with the club's owners. amazing for a bloke who is so clueless. i think you're a WUM.

[redscouse]

we won the european cup with pretty much houlliers team, and rafa himself has admitted he won la liga whilst Real and Barca where struggling.

Not a WUM mate, feel free to question my credentials either in the open or in PM. I just don't buy into all this 'in rafa we trust' garbage whilst he is making so many mistakes..

also on the subject of money, we have outspent every club in the Pl apart from the mancs and the chavs, money spent is not a guarantee of winning mate or we would beat every team who spent less, I feel you are simplifying this too much and just trotting out soundbites. the fact is i think we have wasted money on some very average players and spent wisely on others.

I am far from being a WUM, when i was a kid and a teen I would argue with anyone who slated us, but when I grew up I say it as I see it. I have not read the whole thread but i can see we have different opinions, that does not make me a WUM, it makes me someone with different opinions. I am sure I could shout WUM at anybody who thinks his subs were justified on sunday who who thinks kuyt is a footballer, but I know people have different opinions and thats what makes conversations about my club so good (until someone questions my support because I took off my rose tinted specs and point out faults)

Edited December 23, 2008 by redscouse

[redscouse]

as for money spent steve, babel 11 mllion, keane 22 million, torres 21 million, mash 17 million, kuyt 8 million, dossena 8 million,

I could go on but i think you get the point mate, its just another excuse, just like last season when people were saying how much the problems with the owners affected the team, sorry mate but that is tosh, rafas selections and tactics affected us last season, also i have to ask if the owners were the cause of the problems on the pitch last season, that also means they must be responsible for us being top of the league this season, we still have the same owners

I dont want rafa out of the club, however I want him to stop being so stubborn, this was houlliers downfall. his reason for leaving keane on the bench against hull is a disgrace mate, his interest should be the club winning, not him flexing his muscles (houllier made this mistake when fowler had and argument with thompson)

If he cant change then he will need to go.

I have to say hand heart mate (and this hurts) that I hate watching us most of the time, I am still passionate abut the club and thats why it hurts to watch the way we play, I enjoyed watching Thailand and Indonesia the other night though, that was entertaining attacking football

[StevieH]

we won the european cup with pretty much houlliers team, and rafa himself has admitted he won la liga whilst Real and Barca where struggling.

Not a WUM mate, feel free to question my credentials either in the open or in PM. I just don't buy into all this 'in rafa we trust' garbage whilst he is making so many mistakes..

also on the subject of money, we have outspent every club in the Pl apart from the mancs and the chavs, money spent is not a guarantee of winning mate or we would beat every team who spent less, I feel you are simplifying this too much and just trotting out soundbites. the fact is i think we have wasted money on some very average players and spent wisely on others.

I am far from being a WUM, when i was a kid and a teen I would argue with anyone who slated us, but when I grew up I say it as I see it. I have not read the whole thread but i can see we have different opinions, that does not make me a WUM, it makes me someone with different opinions. I am sure I could shout WUM at anybody who thinks his subs were justified on sunday who who thinks kuyt is a footballer, but I know people have different opinions and thats what makes conversations about my club so good (until someone questions my support because I took off my rose tinted specs and point out faults)

alright, apologies for suggesting you were a WUM. i just think you're way, way off beam with the rafa criticism. i'll try to explain why below.

rafas subs are always the same and always made at the same times, its a cert that keane will go off and reirra will be replaced by babel. rafa does not know how to make changes to suit the game, sunday was crying out for babel to come on up front and take the dire lucas off (is this guy really from Brazil?).

he has in his mind what subs he wants to make at what stages of the game based on a player's fitness which is judged in the week's training. some players tire quicker than others, some are carrying knocks etc. it's not true to say that it's always the same people who are subbed off and if some are subbed more than others it's because the other players on the park are just better than them. babel has stunk the place out this season and has shown nothing whatsoever to indicate that he'd have changed that game up front on sunday, he did absolutely nothing on the left when he came on as it was. and lucas had a fine match deputising for mascherano.

As for kuyt and rafas desire for him to play every minute of every game, well all i can say is rafa must have got laid in holland about 26 years ago as there can be no other explanation for this donkeys inclusion week in week out, the guy can trap it further than i can kick it. he has no pace, no control, no vision, he cant beat people, in fact all he does is run round for 90 minutes (as does gerrard, mash, alonso et al so it doesn't even make kuyt special in this department, the others do it whilst also being footballers as opposed to the annoying kid in school with no talent but would run around a lot).

kuyt's been our second best player this season, has scored important goals and generally been totally consistent. he links play well, provides leadership, does a decent double-act with arbeloa up the right and is just a brilliant team player. if you can't see what he adds to the side that's your problem.

i wont go into the money he has wasted on dross since he came but he has had 17 forwards under his control and the best we can do is play 2 of them out of position, babel on the left and kuyt on the right (however I call kuyt a forward in the loosest sense).

kuyt's now a very effective right sided player in a 4-2-3-1, babel's a load of potential who never looks like fulfilling it. he's 22 now and we should know what his best position is, but we don't. and who cares how many forwards rafa has signed? when he was given real money to spend he signed torres. so he can't spot a player, yeah?

Anyway back to rafas balls, putting aside his lack of ability at spotting a footballer, his desire to not lose games rather than try to win them will ensure we will not win the league with him in charge. the points dropped this season against the lesser lights could have had us away and clear, however his desire to stifle our team beggars belief sometimes, his negative substitutions just show his desire to not lose rather than get the win.

your saying rafa has 'no balls' is just idiotic and downright offensive to be honest. do ferguson, scolari and wenger also 'lack balls'? only their teams have dropped points too this season.

We have some talent in our team, let them play football, stop worrying about setting up to counter <deleted> like hull, stoke and wigan and let them worry about getting steam rollered by us in full flow. Get rid of players like kuyt ( he shouldnt even be a squad player let alone a regular starter), dossena is another bad signing from the tactical genius, stop buying young guys to the detriment of the home grown talent because the club set up under rafa means these guys will never see the first team anyway.

you're wrong about kuyt, probably right about dossena. i'd give insua a run ahead of him. but if you can name one 'home grown talent' from the last, what, eight or even ten years who has gone on to become a brilliant player and who should have made the grade at liverpool i'll be amazed. if they're good enough they'll make it, as insua is doing and as nemeth will. if they're not, they get shipped out for a reasonable fee.

i hate to say it but would manure or chavski drew that match on sunday, would they have played with 10 men behind the ball?

no, they'd have lost it. as they've both lost to arsenal already this season. and we didn't play with 10 men behind the ball, we dominated the match and could have won it. you're starting to sound sill here.

we have been lucky that the chavs have not taken advantage, however i fear when the mancs come back they will be heading for number 18 while we are struggling to finish off teams in the bottom half of the table.

luck is a good thing, i'll take it. and are we crap or lucky by the way? i can't work it out. and does that make chelsea and united brilliant but unlucky that we're above them in the table at this point?

i thought rafa had learnt this season, it took 4 years for him to see his over rotation does not work when he has bought players who are not good enough to step in (and why weaken ourselves against lesser teams, i never saw tyson fight with one hand because the other fighter was not as good), lets hope it doesnt take him another 4 years to realise we have some talent and to take the shackles off, especially when we are playing 10 men who are leaving one up front.

he's not been rotating anything like as much this season because his first XI is now better than it has ever been in his time at the club. what is true is that the league is better than it has been for years, sides are better organised and more capable of making it tough for the top teams now. 'taking the shackles off' is doing arsenal a power of good for example, isn't it? this league this season will be won by the side that loses fewest games.

but what do I know, he gets paid for it

can he win us the title? yes

will he win it while he continues with poor selections, poor tactics and pointless substitutions? never in a month of sundays unless the other top teams suddenly pack in

most of what you've written here comes across as tabloidesque, phone-in rantery without looking at the facts involved. we're incredibly hard to beat, we're top of the table having barely had the best striker in europe available this season, and with a fair wind and the luck that all champions get, we might just do it this season. will you celebrate if we do? or will you still be moaning that the manager is crap and has no balls?

[StevieH]

as for money spent steve, babel 11 mllion, keane 22 million, torres 21 million, mash 17 million, kuyt 8 million, dossena 8 million,

I could go on but i think you get the point mate, its just another excuse, just like last season when people were saying how much the problems with the owners affected the team, sorry mate but that is tosh, rafas selections and tactics affected us last season, also i have to ask if the owners were the cause of the problems on the pitch last season, that also means they must be responsible for us being top of the league this season, we still have the same owners

I dont want rafa out of the club, however I want him to stop being so stubborn, this was houlliers downfall. his reason for leaving keane on the bench against hull is a disgrace mate, his interest should be the club winning, not him flexing his muscles (houllier made this mistake when fowler had and argument with thompson)

If he cant change then he will need to go.

I have to say hand heart mate (and this hurts) that I hate watching us most of the time, I am still passionate abut the club and thats why it hurts to watch the way we play, I enjoyed watching Thailand and Indonesia the other night though, that was entertaining attacking football

don't watch then. seriously. you want 'entertainment' go and watch basketball or something. i fuc_king adore watching us play, however we play and whoever it is against.

[Devil]

Nice post's Stevie...good to have some proper fans on here!

I thought fans support their team not <deleted>*kinfg call our players and mangers who wear our colours who put in 110% week in week out... it makes me sick to listen to this type of bitching. Its one thing to have points of view but its insulting when people go on about how shit our manager and players are when we are doing so well.

Have a look again...Top spot of the EPL and into the next round of the Champions league. So I guess Raffa has nothing to do with this then? just blind luck hey?

And the whole Kuyt issue is just plain silly now. Hes proved he a fantastic squad member, No hes not a Ribery, L Figo (in his prime) on the right wing, but look at how he fits into the system and into a position that's not natural to him but yet he supports the full back better than most players and supports the attack. Ok if we can find and afford a better player for this role so be it but for now! shut up and give some support will you, I think hes been a fantastic signing End of story.

The one thing about this Raffa's team is he has moulded us into one of the best counter attacking teams in Europe and that's what wins games in modern football IMHO. And I have seen signs we can dominate games against the best also, imagine when the boy from Sunny Spain is back in full action.

I have to say from watching all the teams in the EPL play this year, Liverpool look the real deal! non of the other big 4 look to be any better... We have outplayed all of them also.

Well done Raffa and the boys a dream start to the season...