Thai Govt Urged To Rein In Prices Of Private Hospitals

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Foreigners are welcome to use government hospitals.

24/7 + Drip + antibiotics + morphine + blood tests + X-ray + Ultrasound approximately 1,500bht/day in a public bed.

The wards aren't very nice, but if you can't afford the private fees, not a bad deal.

[somtampet]

For a foreigner it might look like the cost of medical treatment in Thailand is very cheap but the truth is that for the common Thai people is very, very expensive, specially when you go to a private hospital and buy ur medicine ther, the prices of something so simple as an antibiotic very often is 30 times more expensive than if you go to a normal drugstore and buy it for yourself, so hope the goverment improve this situation because this is something that is a very important issue for must of the people, amen

Totaly disagree.

There are 100,s of thousands COMMON THAI PEOPLE,like my gf who works for a living and pays 400 baht a month,to contribute to company medical insurance,and that includes top private hospitals.Which common people are u talking about then,the ones who live on the street??????

Of the common thai people that I know that dont even understand what a medical insurance is, working class etc.

U need to get out more then

[Om85]

For a foreigner it might look like the cost of medical treatment in Thailand is very cheap but the truth is that for the common Thai people is very, very expensive, specially when you go to a private hospital and buy ur medicine ther, the prices of something so simple as an antibiotic very often is 30 times more expensive than if you go to a normal drugstore and buy it for yourself, so hope the goverment improve this situation because this is something that is a very important issue for must of the people, amen

Totaly disagree.

There are 100,s of thousands COMMON THAI PEOPLE,like my gf who works for a living and pays 400 baht a month,to contribute to company medical insurance,and that includes top private hospitals.Which common people are u talking about then,the ones who live on the street??????

Of the common thai people that I know that dont even understand what a medical insurance is, working class etc.

U need to get out more then

Who says so?, I live among they, in a remote place called pathumthani.

[Thai at Heart]

Have a friend of my wife who works for AIA.

She spends half her time reducing padded bills from private hospitals. She once reduced a bill from 150k to 40 where a child was admitted for an asthma attack.

3 days on hospital with basic observation and basic medication. Her job is to minimise AIA payouts.

The hospitals are gouging everyone they can.

[gtm2k]

For a foreigner it might look like the cost of medical treatment in Thailand is very cheap but the truth is that for the common Thai people is very, very expensive, specially when you go to a private hospital and buy ur medicine ther, the prices of something so simple as an antibiotic very often is 30 times more expensive than if you go to a normal drugstore and buy it for yourself, so hope the goverment improve this situation because this is something that is a very important issue for must of the people, amen

My wife uses an antibiotic which the hospital provides @ THB 1,350.00 per file (ie 10 tablets)

After about 3 rounds, missus decided to take the empty foil to a local chemist and was shocked to find out that the same medicine - same brand - same packaging and same dosage : THB 107.00

Such is the state of affairs !

We complain about expats being looted given the chance, how about thais looting their own !

[Thai at Heart]

For a foreigner it might look like the cost of medical treatment in Thailand is very cheap but the truth is that for the common Thai people is very, very expensive, specially when you go to a private hospital and buy ur medicine ther, the prices of something so simple as an antibiotic very often is 30 times more expensive than if you go to a normal drugstore and buy it for yourself, so hope the goverment improve this situation because this is something that is a very important issue for must of the people, amen

My wife uses an antibiotic which the hospital provides @ THB 1,350.00 per file (ie 10 tablets)

After about 3 rounds, missus decided to take the empty foil to a local chemist and was shocked to find out that the same medicine - same brand - same packaging and same dosage : THB 107.00

Such is the state of affairs !

We complain about expats being looted given the chance, how about thais looting their own !

If anyone has private insurance, the companies know that the hospital bill will be padded. They are out of control at the moment.

It really needs some control.

Edited April 28, 2013 by Thai at Heart

[AnotherOneAmerican]

For a foreigner it might look like the cost of medical treatment in Thailand is very cheap but the truth is that for the common Thai people is very, very expensive, specially when you go to a private hospital and buy ur medicine ther, the prices of something so simple as an antibiotic very often is 30 times more expensive than if you go to a normal drugstore and buy it for yourself, so hope the goverment improve this situation because this is something that is a very important issue for must of the people, amen

My wife uses an antibiotic which the hospital provides @ THB 1,350.00 per file (ie 10 tablets)

After about 3 rounds, missus decided to take the empty foil to a local chemist and was shocked to find out that the same medicine - same brand - same packaging and same dosage : THB 107.00

Such is the state of affairs !

We complain about expats being looted given the chance, how about thais looting their own !

They also pad the bills of Thais with foreigner names or obviously foreign partners footing their bills.

[hellodolly]

Who says so?, I live among they, in a remote place called pathumthani.

For a foreigner it might look like the cost of medical treatment in Thailand is very cheap but the truth is that for the common Thai people is very, very expensive, specially when you go to a private hospital and buy ur medicine ther, the prices of something so simple as an antibiotic very often is 30 times more expensive than if you go to a normal drugstore and buy it for yourself, so hope the goverment improve this situation because this is something that is a very important issue for must of the people, amen

Totaly disagree.

There are 100,s of thousands COMMON THAI PEOPLE,like my gf who works for a living and pays 400 baht a month,to contribute to company medical insurance,and that includes top private hospitals.Which common people are u talking about then,the ones who live on the street??????

Of the common thai people that I know that dont even understand what a medical insurance is, working class etc.

How remote can it be with a private hospital and no Government hospital.Perhaps you should be blasting the government for not educating Thais enough to know that a for profit (private) hospital is naturally going to cost more than a hospital that is supported by tax payers money.

Also you seem to have a good internet connection for a remote place.

[Om85]

Who says so?, I live among they, in a remote place called pathumthani.

Of the common thai people that I know that dont even understand what a medical insurance is, working class etc.

How remote can it be with a private hospital and no Government hospital.Perhaps you should be blasting the government for not educating Thais enough to know that a for profit (private) hospital is naturally going to cost more than a hospital that is supported by tax payers money.

Also you seem to have a good internet connection for a remote place.

No ofense but, do you hav alzeimer or some kind of mental condition that doesn't let you understad a very simple point, or perhaps you r just a troll? I agree with you, but what I am saying hav nothing to do with what you are saying, my point is that the same medice should have more or less the same price, and the patient should hav the right to buy the medicine wherever he/she prefers, not in the hospital in which he receive the treatment, for example in Central General, a hospital located in Paholyothin road, they dont give you a prescription, they make you pay the bill, and in the bill is included the medicines( you dont hav the obtion of buying in another drugstore) and the prices are abusives, that's why I am critizicing heer, medicines r not luxuries, r needs and the goverment should regulate the prices in the public and private sector. and regarding to me living in a very remote place called pathumthani, is and irony, I live among Thai people, I eat with them, work with them, drink wid em and can say that I know em, I dont hang out with farangs.

[hellodolly]

Who says so?, I live among they, in a remote place called pathumthani.

Of the common thai people that I know that dont even understand what a medical insurance is, working class etc.

How remote can it be with a private hospital and no Government hospital.Perhaps you should be blasting the government for not educating Thais enough to know that a for profit (private) hospital is naturally going to cost more than a hospital that is supported by tax payers money.

Also you seem to have a good internet connection for a remote place.

No ofense but, do you hav alzeimer or some kind of mental condition that doesn't let you understad a very simple point, or perhaps you r just a troll? I agree with you, but what I am saying hav nothing to do with what you are saying, my point is that the same medice should have more or less the same price, and the patient should hav the right to buy the medicine wherever he/she prefers, not in the hospital in which he receive the treatment, for example in Central General, a hospital located in Paholyothin road, they dont give you a prescription, they make you pay the bill, and in the bill is included the medicines( you dont hav the obtion of buying in another drugstore) and the prices are abusives, that's why I am critizicing heer, medicines r not luxuries, r needs and the goverment should regulate the prices in the public and private sector. and regarding to me living in a very remote place called pathumthani, is and irony, I live among Thai people, I eat with them, work with them, drink wid em and can say that I know em, I dont hang out with farangs.

My point is simple if you don't like what the private hospitals do go to a government one. Don't try to get the government to lower the for profit hospital to a hospital that is supported by the tax payers and has trouble paying fair wages.

A very simple and obvious point. As obvious as the point that you were the one claiming you lived in a remote place.

Go to a Government hospital if you want what they have to offer.

[Woolybully]

It is a disgrace that foreign patients are asked to pay up to 5 times the ammount of Thai patients. This includes the Bumrungrad and Samtivej. I n any western country, you get treated equal , whatever race , beliref or color you are. Thailand is a scam when it comes to hospital bills. It is a total disgrace. A baby girl of a friend of mine was refused treatment because he coukld not pay up to 100.000 Baht per day for an incubator. The little girl survived through last minute intervention of the Pyathai hospital and Khun Boy who scented the situation and gave 100% service. Nevertheless he explained that Foreigners pay more than double of Thqai Patients. This should go not only to the Thai government but also to The united nations. A disgrace.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

It is a disgrace that foreign patients are asked to pay up to 5 times the ammount of Thai patients. This includes the Bumrungrad and Samtivej. I n any western country, you get treated equal , whatever race , beliref or color you are. Thailand is a scam when it comes to hospital bills. It is a total disgrace. A baby girl of a friend of mine was refused treatment because he coukld not pay up to 100.000 Baht per day for an incubator. The little girl survived through last minute intervention of the Pyathai hospital and Khun Boy who scented the situation and gave 100% service. Nevertheless he explained that Foreigners pay more than double of Thqai Patients. This should go not only to the Thai government but also to The united nations. A disgrace.

Children with a Thai parent are treated completely free, not even a charge for drugs.

[jackr]

I think this'd be more apt in today's climate:

Thai Govt Urged To Rein In Prices Of Private Hospitals EVERYTHING!

[Om85]

Who says so?, I live among they, in a remote place called pathumthani.

How remote can it be with a private hospital and no Government hospital.Perhaps you should be blasting the government for not educating Thais enough to know that a for profit (private) hospital is naturally going to cost more than a hospital that is supported by tax payers money.

Also you seem to have a good internet connection for a remote place.

No ofense but, do you hav alzeimer or some kind of mental condition that doesn't let you understad a very simple point, or perhaps you r just a troll? I agree with you, but what I am saying hav nothing to do with what you are saying, my point is that the same medice should have more or less the same price, and the patient should hav the right to buy the medicine wherever he/she prefers, not in the hospital in which he receive the treatment, for example in Central General, a hospital located in Paholyothin road, they dont give you a prescription, they make you pay the bill, and in the bill is included the medicines( you dont hav the obtion of buying in another drugstore) and the prices are abusives, that's why I am critizicing heer, medicines r not luxuries, r needs and the goverment should regulate the prices in the public and private sector. and regarding to me living in a very remote place called pathumthani, is and irony, I live among Thai people, I eat with them, work with them, drink wid em and can say that I know em, I dont hang out with farangs.

My point is simple if you don't like what the private hospitals do go to a government one. Don't try to get the government to lower the for profit hospital to a hospital that is supported by the tax payers and has trouble paying fair wages.

A very simple and obvious point. As obvious as the point that you were the one claiming you lived in a remote place.

Go to a Government hospital if you want what they have to offer.

De finitely, you must b a troll

[mickjn]

I went to a private hospital in Feb, from falling 5 meters thru a roof. Broke both wrists and an ankle. They started off saying they would charge me an arm and a leg (pun intended), but wound up charging a bit less, due to pleading by some Thai friends. The final tally came down from nearly Bt.200k to around Bt.80k. I had accident insurance which took Bt.30k off that. Yet, when I mentioned the 80k to Thai friends, they all were aghast at the high price. They said that a Thai would have paid considerably less at the same private hospital. That's not counting the 30 baht public hospital, where a person with a broken limb might have to wait several days before getting it set in plaster.

Different prices for non-Thais should be stamped out. Surely there is a Thai anti-discrimination law that covers this.

What does anti-discrimination mean

[StevenWayneSimpson]

I had cruciate ligament reconstruction at BKK hospital a couple of years back and the final bill was about 450K. A friend of mine did the same operation at Thonburi and the bill was 120K. I was covered by insurance and therefore BKK was easier for me but still wasn't happy with the bill. I had one doctor on the bill who I hadn't even seen for 20K and I asked what did he do. They said he was the first doc I consulted when I came to the hospital. When I told them that I went direct to the doctor I had used 7 years previous for the same op, they then went away and came back and told me the doc for 20K who I hadn't even seen called my insurance company! I gave up at that point in questioning it because I knew it was a loosing battle.

[Bob12345]

There is also the issue medicine is a business as are hospitals. A recent op on a mate and 168,000 later and results of the lab tests showed only 20% of 'bits' removed was necessary. Insurance did not cover this 'type' of surgery according to the 'private' hospital. Misdiagnosis and over zealous surgeons making money. However, having said that, if entrepreneurs have the capital to set up a hospital they should be able to expect a ROI based on pricing etc. So the rates they charge are really at their behest. I don't think the govt has any say in this.

That is EXACTLY why ALL health services should be run at cost by efficient Government services and NEVER privately profit motivated. I totally abhor making money out of peoples misfortunes and ill health (same with childrens' educations). Sure doctors and nurses and others working in the healthcare system should be remunerated fairly according to their skills and efficiency, but please no blatant non value added greedy money making destructive profits. Basic and good healthcare should be a right of ALL citizens in a civilised country as indeed it is in the UK, and all such socially minded countries should have a mutual agreement to share such free care for their citizens (as they do in many European countries).

Hospitals should be build for the people by the people and paid for out of fair income / profit related taxation. Capitalism can be good in many respects but in healthcare we must have a Socialist system to be fair and beneficial to all people. Capitalism and Socialism BOTH have good and bad points you have to realise, so just leave Capitalism out of basic healthcare Healthcare should be available free and for all based entirely on medical need and urgency with no immoral queue jumping just because some a'hole has money and wants to jump ahead of others in more need.

Oh before any right wing idiots start, I am nether Capitalist nor Socialist but a bit of both and accept that there is a correct centre way that embraces all that is good from both those undesirable destructive extremes, As far as Healthcare is concerned (and most other things too) then peoples' well being is far more important than money making. People must always come first, money well after that.

Can't agree with your communist approach here, although i do agree at all people should have access to healthcare (and its nice you mention that in your post but i dont think anybody disagrees with that statement).

To start with your "efficient government services" in your first sentence. To me this sounds like a contradiction since government agencies are often much more wasteful than private ones. Many countries chose for privatizations somewhere in their history because of this, and even though there are cases of gross mismanagement in general the efficiency increased after privatization.

And i think the difference between a private and a government hospital is not so much the level of basic healthcare, but more the convenience and secondary treatment.

Go to a government hospital and check the outgoing patient ward. There are about 50 people in a huge hall without any privacy or complete silence at night. They still get normal healthcare though. Now compare this with a private hospital where people get a private room and more attention from nurses. They still get the same basic healthcare, it is only brought with a bigger smile in a private setting (do not read this as anything dirty) without a need to queue up first.

So people who have the money can "buy" the extra service, people who do not value that extra service so much, or lack the money, can go to a government hospital. Compare it to buying an expensive or a cheap car; they both bring you to your destination only one does it in more luxury.

Your statement that people must come first and not money is also a nice one, but nowhere in the world that is followed nor will it ever be followed. Take an extreme example where one person in the world has a unique disease. Should be put all resources in the world to use to fix his condition? Morally you might say "yes" as you cannot put a price on someones life, but practically it will go at the cost of other things. So even in the UK and the western world they always make an assessment between the costs and benefits of any treatment. You might not like it, but thats the way it is.

[rayw]

There is also the issue medicine is a business as are hospitals. A recent op on a mate and 168,000 later and results of the lab tests showed only 20% of 'bits' removed was necessary. Insurance did not cover this 'type' of surgery according to the 'private' hospital. Misdiagnosis and over zealous surgeons making money. However, having said that, if entrepreneurs have the capital to set up a hospital they should be able to expect a ROI based on pricing etc. So the rates they charge are really at their behest. I don't think the govt has any say in this.

That is EXACTLY why ALL health services should be run at cost by efficient Government services and NEVER privately profit motivated. I totally abhor making money out of peoples misfortunes and ill health (same with childrens' educations). Sure doctors and nurses and others working in the healthcare system should be remunerated fairly according to their skills and efficiency, but please no blatant non value added greedy money making destructive profits. Basic and good healthcare should be a right of ALL citizens in a civilised country as indeed it is in the UK, and all such socially minded countries should have a mutual agreement to share such free care for their citizens (as they do in many European countries).

Hospitals should be build for the people by the people and paid for out of fair income / profit related taxation. Capitalism can be good in many respects but in healthcare we must have a Socialist system to be fair and beneficial to all people. Capitalism and Socialism BOTH have good and bad points you have to realise, so just leave Capitalism out of basic healthcare Healthcare should be available free and for all based entirely on medical need and urgency with no immoral queue jumping just because some a'hole has money and wants to jump ahead of others in more need.

Oh before any right wing idiots start, I am nether Capitalist nor Socialist but a bit of both and accept that there is a correct centre way that embraces all that is good from both those undesirable destructive extremes, As far as Healthcare is concerned (and most other things too) then peoples' well being is far more important than money making. People must always come first, money well after that.

Can't agree with your communist approach here, although i do agree at all people should have access to healthcare (and its nice you mention that in your post but i dont think anybody disagrees with that statement).

To start with your "efficient government services" in your first sentence. To me this sounds like a contradiction since government agencies are often much more wasteful than private ones. Many countries chose for privatizations somewhere in their history because of this, and even though there are cases of gross mismanagement in general the efficiency increased after privatization.

And i think the difference between a private and a government hospital is not so much the level of basic healthcare, but more the convenience and secondary treatment.

Go to a government hospital and check the outgoing patient ward. There are about 50 people in a huge hall without any privacy or complete silence at night. They still get normal healthcare though. Now compare this with a private hospital where people get a private room and more attention from nurses. They still get the same basic healthcare, it is only brought with a bigger smile in a private setting (do not read this as anything dirty) without a need to queue up first.

So people who have the money can "buy" the extra service, people who do not value that extra service so much, or lack the money, can go to a government hospital. Compare it to buying an expensive or a cheap car; they both bring you to your destination only one does it in more luxury.

Your statement that people must come first and not money is also a nice one, but nowhere in the world that is followed nor will it ever be followed. Take an extreme example where one person in the world has a unique disease. Should be put all resources in the world to use to fix his condition? Morally you might say "yes" as you cannot put a price on someones life, but practically it will go at the cost of other things. So even in the UK and the western world they always make an assessment between the costs and benefits of any treatment. You might not like it, but thats the way it is.

Thanks for your great response Bob. And all very relevant.

Yes I am of course aware of what happens in the real world but that still does not make it right and no good simply saying we CANNOT change it as in Obama's good words "YES WE CAN" if we just start to make the effort. Same with efficiency as I did work for a Government department and I assure you that certainly within the last 15 years or so efficiency has been paramount and demanded of all of their staff and in fact more strictly and effectively imposed than private sector areas where I also worked in my lifetime. For now maybe there should be very strict controls as to limit to fair levels of profit for healthcare services and the related insurance schemes to stop the greedy fat cat's from their obvious exploitation of the weak and sick and yes tax payer too. Do not take my word for that as just go look at the immoral levels of profit, bloated salaries and bonuses and restrictive cartel / monopoly like practices in much of the pharmaceutical and healthcare industries.

As to private hospitals, well that is where I disagree as any private health system will bleed and make worse a free for all folk state run system and cause the very dangerous for many long waiting lists. ALL basic health care should be free, sure hospitals should allow private wards and the like as long as the patients do not get better or more attention form the doctors and medical treatment personnel. I am not a communist (nor complete Capitalist either) so I of course do agree that outside of a few basic community needs like health and education and power and water public utilities, then sure you should be able to buy yourself a little more comfort with a better hotel like hospital room as long as that does not detract from other folks actual basic medical needs and requirements. What I am saying is that you should NEVER be allowed to use money to jump a queue or reduce other folks medical care needs, that should all be based on medical needs and urgency not how much money you have and are willing to pay as that is wrong and antisocial and socially unacceptable to the vast majority of folk.

[Thai at Heart]

There is also the issue medicine is a business as are hospitals. A recent op on a mate and 168,000 later and results of the lab tests showed only 20% of 'bits' removed was necessary. Insurance did not cover this 'type' of surgery according to the 'private' hospital. Misdiagnosis and over zealous surgeons making money. However, having said that, if entrepreneurs have the capital to set up a hospital they should be able to expect a ROI based on pricing etc. So the rates they charge are really at their behest. I don't think the govt has any say in this.

That is EXACTLY why ALL health services should be run at cost by efficient Government services and NEVER privately profit motivated. I totally abhor making money out of peoples misfortunes and ill health (same with childrens' educations). Sure doctors and nurses and others working in the healthcare system should be remunerated fairly according to their skills and efficiency, but please no blatant non value added greedy money making destructive profits. Basic and good healthcare should be a right of ALL citizens in a civilised country as indeed it is in the UK, and all such socially minded countries should have a mutual agreement to share such free care for their citizens (as they do in many European countries).

Hospitals should be build for the people by the people and paid for out of fair income / profit related taxation. Capitalism can be good in many respects but in healthcare we must have a Socialist system to be fair and beneficial to all people. Capitalism and Socialism BOTH have good and bad points you have to realise, so just leave Capitalism out of basic healthcare Healthcare should be available free and for all based entirely on medical need and urgency with no immoral queue jumping just because some a'hole has money and wants to jump ahead of others in more need.

Oh before any right wing idiots start, I am nether Capitalist nor Socialist but a bit of both and accept that there is a correct centre way that embraces all that is good from both those undesirable destructive extremes, As far as Healthcare is concerned (and most other things too) then peoples' well being is far more important than money making. People must always come first, money well after that.

Can't agree with your communist approach here, although i do agree at all people should have access to healthcare (and its nice you mention that in your post but i dont think anybody disagrees with that statement).

To start with your "efficient government services" in your first sentence. To me this sounds like a contradiction since government agencies are often much more wasteful than private ones. Many countries chose for privatizations somewhere in their history because of this, and even though there are cases of gross mismanagement in general the efficiency increased after privatization.

And i think the difference between a private and a government hospital is not so much the level of basic healthcare, but more the convenience and secondary treatment.

Go to a government hospital and check the outgoing patient ward. There are about 50 people in a huge hall without any privacy or complete silence at night. They still get normal healthcare though. Now compare this with a private hospital where people get a private room and more attention from nurses. They still get the same basic healthcare, it is only brought with a bigger smile in a private setting (do not read this as anything dirty) without a need to queue up first.

So people who have the money can "buy" the extra service, people who do not value that extra service so much, or lack the money, can go to a government hospital. Compare it to buying an expensive or a cheap car; they both bring you to your destination only one does it in more luxury.

Your statement that people must come first and not money is also a nice one, but nowhere in the world that is followed nor will it ever be followed. Take an extreme example where one person in the world has a unique disease. Should be put all resources in the world to use to fix his condition? Morally you might say "yes" as you cannot put a price on someones life, but practically it will go at the cost of other things. So even in the UK and the western world they always make an assessment between the costs and benefits of any treatment. You might not like it, but thats the way it is.

I think where this leads is that it is essentially possible to access exactly the same doctor in a different setting for a different price. It is also, perfectly possible to buy the identical medicine for a different price.

Now, if i go to Brumrungrad and check into the room for 5,000 baht, have my UBC, and a nice dinner, and the such I don't mind to pay the 5000 baht. The problem comes, when I know only to well, that Dr. Somchai talking to me, is billed to me at 2,000 baht an hour in Brumrungrad, but 500 baht per hour in his own personal surgery, or possibly for free, should he happen to also have a position at the local government hospital.

So, I would out to anyone, that what these hospitals are doing is hiding and spreading expenses. Why can I not bring my own doctor at my own cost to a hospital, and simply avail myself of the building and facilities? Since that is essentially the only difference in terms of knowledgeable care that I am receiving.

It is a very difficult problem, but the way it is structured, the doctors are treated as sub-contractors in the private system, and the hospital is taking a commission on their services, which i would say, is not too far away from pimping. Much better, to go and find quality doctors and see them in their private practices where the prices are so ridiculously low in comparison to what you may pay to see them in a hospital, it is like chalk and cheese.

As for the pharmaceuticals having padded prices in a private hospital, this is just so immoral, that it is beyond a joke, and everyone on principal should refuse to pay for the medication. Simple as that. There are things that should be counted as profit centres, and things that are not, and if

[Bob12345]

As to private hospitals, well that is where I disagree as any private health system will bleed and make worse a free for all folk state run system and cause the very dangerous for many long waiting lists. ALL basic health care should be free, sure hospitals should allow private wards and the like as long as the patients do not get better or more attention form the doctors and medical treatment personnel. I am not a communist (nor complete Capitalist either) so I of course do agree that outside of a few basic community needs like health and education and power and water public utilities, then sure you should be able to buy yourself a little more comfort with a better hotel like hospital room as long as that does not detract from other folks actual basic medical needs and requirements. What I am saying is that you should NEVER be allowed to use money to jump a queue or reduce other folks medical care needs, that should all be based on medical needs and urgency not how much money you have and are willing to pay as that is wrong and antisocial and socially unacceptable to the vast majority of folk.

I think we agree with each other for about 99%