My Powerbook (os-x) Freezes All The Time

[Nordlys]

My PowerBook G4 (aluminum, 15.2") with OS-X (Panther) freezes every time I use it lately. I've been using OS-X for about two years now and I've never experienced seeing the pointer freezes and forced to reboot the machine/OS since I stopped using OS9, until very recently. And when it happens, chance of my Mac freezing again becomes greater and so frequent to the point that if it happened 3 or 4 times the next time you reboot my Mac it freezes before even the booting process is completed.

I've used Disk Utility contained in the OS-X installer DVD-ROM that came with the PowerBook but it detected nothing with the HDD. I haven't cleared PRAM yet (forgot how to do it with OS-X). What is wrong with my PowerBook? Is this a hardware problem or software issue? I haven't formatted the HDD and reinstall everything yet as it's a time consuming process to back up everything and to reinstall everything again, and I don't want to do it to find it was a hardware problem.

Any advice appreciated/input appreciated.

Edited March 20, 2006 by Nordlys

[rickvan]

Maybe you should try ONIX and repare permissions and all the other things this program is able to do.

[GoodHeart]

Still using 10.3?

PRAM clearing is Applekey+Option+P+R. On restarting hold them until the 2nd startup gong sounds.

I think you may want to get the app. Preferential Treatment:

http://homepage.mac.com/jonn8/as/html/pt.html

and especially, get Applejack:

http://applejack.sourceforge.net/

Applejack is quite powerful! In your case I would not run it in auto mode, but go the step-by-step route.

Here is a good link for some 10.3 maintenance tips:

http://software-robotics.com/docs/PDF-X-Ro...aintenance.html

and another good troubleshooting site:

http://www.macattorney.com/panther.html

Question is: what change occured that precipitated this? Were apps. added/used to induce it? Could it be hardware incompatibility? Disk Warrior is a good app to buy too, in order to clean the HDD.

Good luck!

Edited March 22, 2006 by GoodHeart

[danone]

also recommend

disk warrior

keeps your hard drive clean and corrects past mistakes ...

has its price, but is like an insurance.

[Nordlys]

Thanks for all that tips, GoodHeart, danone and rickvan.

Haven't been using this troubled PowerBook for 3 days and just turned the power on to clear PRAM but it didn't do any good. It froze again in less than 5 minutes after reboot and when I tried to reboot it froze in booting process so I was forced to unplug the power cable and remove the battery to shut it down.

I think I'll buy Disk Warrior and see if it does any good before bringing it to the Apple service center. The problem seems to occur so frequently that I can't even run my Mac long enough to finish backing up all the datas.

Also, does anybody know what keys to press down for rebuilding desktop?

[GoodHeart]

Ouch! I feel your pain, Nordlys, honest. Sounds like you are in a real jam. Maybe you ought to try and re-install the OS on top of your exsiting one. Do you have the 10.3 disk? Booting from CD [be it an OS X 10.3 disk, Diskwarrior or any other] is done by holding down the C key.

Safe Boot [won't load any 3rd party kernael extensions] is done holding Shift key down.

Another option would be to do a [fire wire] Target Disk mode startup- holding down the T key. If you can get access to another Mac with some of the utilities installed they could possibly clean up your disk errors in Target disk mode.

Edited March 22, 2006 by GoodHeart

[GoodHeart]

Danone- Be careful of the forward compatibility of your Disk Warrior. I own a 3.02 version which is not compatible with OS X 10.4.5. May also not be with 10.4.4

Took weeks of frustration and countless re-installs before i could isolate the problem to what had been my stalwart of all repair utilities.

[danone]

Danone- Be careful of the forward compatibility of your Disk Warrior. I own a 3.02 version which is not compatible with OS X 10.4.5. May also not be with 10.4.4

Took weeks of frustration and countless re-installs before i could isolate the problem to what had been my stalwart of all repair utilities.

hmm, tks for the hint ... didnt try 3.02 yet with 10.4.5 ...

here from disk warrior's website:

http://www.alsoft.com/DiskWarrior/support.html#Tiger

[Nordlys]

Thanks again for the tips, GoodHeart.

I'll try to copy the data using target mode you mentioned with another PowerBook I have (12"). Thing is, I was thinking of using DVD-R to back up the data but now that I have enough problem booting the PowerBook, I have to back up all the data in another PowerBook (12", 60GB) with less than 3GB of free space left first to make free space for copying the data from PowerBook in trouble (15", 100GB).

Can Panther be installed over the pre-OS installed hard drive without affecting all the preferences and configurations? Should I back up the data before I do this or is it safe enough and worth trying before formatting HDD/clean install or bringing it to the service center?

BTW I did not install any new application or add any hardware recently that might have induced this problem. Just the usual security update or iTunes updater from Apple's "software update" only. I had the original hard drive replaced for a new one about six months ago and everything was running smoothly until very recently and I have no clue as to what's causing this problem from happening so I was suspecting hardware problem.

Danone- Be careful of the forward compatibility of your Disk Warrior. I own a 3.02 version which is not compatible with OS X 10.4.5. May also not be with 10.4.4

So I guess what's available for download now is compatible with Panther? .... But can not be started from CD accroding to their website as my PowerBook is over two years old (first aluminum G4)? Will it do any good if I can't start the Mac from DiskWarrior CD?

Edited March 23, 2006 by Nordlys

[danone]

hmm, fool me, I already have diskwarrior 3.0.3

n.: if you want to have a try with disk warrior, be my guest.

PM me and bring along your PB. as it does no harm if it is not working it may still do some good.

from others I had heard miraculous things about diskwarrior.

havent seen an explicit reference in diskwarrior's online site that 3.0.3 doesn't work with panther ...

anyway, up to you, hope you can sort out all those probs.

[GoodHeart]

Thanks again for the tips, GoodHeart.

1- Can Panther be installed over the pre-OS installed hard drive without affecting all the preferences and configurations?

2- Should I back up the data before I do this or is it safe enough and worth trying before formatting HDD/clean install or bringing it to the service center?

3- Will it do any good if I can't start the Mac from DiskWarrior CD?

My pleasure, Nordlys. What is nice is that you have options here:

1- That is precisely what the Archive and Install feature does. It will re-install everything, save all your preferences and configs, move all that to the new install, AND save the old files in another folder on the newly installed drive [just in case].

2- Good question! Are you feeling lucky today? #1 is a great option. Backing up is always called for. But, other than doing #1, were I in your shoes I would be installing all the utilites [priorly posted] on the 12" and applying them to the 15" via Target Disk Mode and the firewire connection between the two or going for option #1.

Tech Tool Pro 4 and Drive Genius are also good programs.

#3- I think Disc Warrior could be of more help running off of the 12" being applied to the 15 via Target Disk Mode.

[Nordlys]

Again, thank you so much for all that input, GoodHeart. Gosh, I thought I was going to get no response!

I will do precisely just as you advised but I think I'll have to wait till after 25th to do this as I don't want all the on-line purchase of Disk Warrior and TechTool to come on this month's credit card statement.

One last question - I suppose there's no problem backing up date from troubled 15" using DVD writer connected to 12" when in target mode (my 12" is combo drive)?

And thanks too danone for your offer.

Edited March 23, 2006 by Nordlys

[GoodHeart]

One last question - I suppose there's no problem backing up date from troubled 15" using DVD writer connected to 12" when in target mode (my 12" is combo drive)?

No worries Nordlys- Mac addicts looking out for each other is just part of the user experience.

Ques: No problem at all! [but that assumes two working machines so- YMMV applies ] The beauty of target disk mode is that the computer in such a mode is seen as though it were an external drive by the other machine. So you can just point that DVD writer to the files on the slave/target disc mode with the 12" and burn away.

Try that and then, when everything has been backed-up and burned, try the Archive and Install from the original disk. If there is no hardware issue it ought to get you running fine again.

Sadly though, this whole predicament of yours has me perplexed. I don't know enough to speculate on the hardware diagnosis, but the symptoms seem serious enough that it could very well be hardware.

Why don't you see if you can even get it into target disk mode and view the HDD using the 12" connected on a firewire cable? When I do so, I always shut down the slave with a Ctrl+Opt+Apple Key+Power button press.

If you want more help it would be worthwhile to inquire here:

http://discussions.apple.com/index.jspa

and/or here:

http://forums.macnn.com/

Good luck

[Nordlys]

Sadly though, this whole predicament of yours has me perplexed. I don't know enough to speculate on the hardware diagnosis, but the symptoms seem serious enough that it could very well be hardware.

Right. I thought the whole point of Apple having developed OS-X on UNIX platform is for memory protection (aside from multi-tasking), without which it can cause the entire system to freeze as I experienced so frequently with OS 9. So this isn't supposed to be happening if not for a hardware problem, I thought.

Anyway I'll work on it this weekend and see if the problem can be solved. Disk Warrior seems like it has all the nice features Norton Utilities used to have so I'll get it anyway even if that might not help.

And thanks again for the links.

[GoodHeart]

How goes the Mac woes, Nordlys? Are you up and running, I hope?

I just came across this handy PDF of the most important OS X keyboard shortcuts and thought it would be worth passing along.

Best regards!

mackeys.pdf

[Woin]

Nordlys

I have experienced the same problem and i have the same PB model as you (running OSX Tiger). I have searched internet for anwers without finding any. I think it is a rare problem. However, I have mANAGED to do all possible software cleaning, resets and reinstalls, but without solving the random freeze problem. Some periods the book works just fine and I almost begins to forget the freezes. But, suddenly THE irritating freEzes are back. My idea is that it is a hardware problem. Some kind of short circuit or power break occuring after a minor physical influence. For example I have find out that the freezes occur more frequently when i move the PBook or when i change the screen position. Maybe the contacts or cables connecting the scrren with the main unit have been corroded or broken, resulting in occasional short circuiting.

If anyone know, is it possible to reconditioning the contacts in the hinge by for example using electrospray on it (to eliminate possible corrosion)?

Is it OK at all to use electrospray on computer circuits?

[dekka007]

Solution I had on PB with freezing / not booting.:

Take the memory module out the bottom of the machine. reboot and see if it freezes to rule out faulty memory.

Shutdown reinsert the memory module in the bottom and try again.

I have seen a few PB (Especially 12" for some reason) with not the tightest of memory housing slots.

Also when you put the memory cover o make sure all the screws are very tight as this reduces the space the memory module has to move about when the machine is moved etc.

Worth a try.

Nordlys

I have experienced the same problem and i have the same PB model as you (running OSX Tiger). I have searched internet for anwers without finding any. I think it is a rare problem. However, I have mANAGED to do all possible software cleaning, resets and reinstalls, but without solving the random freeze problem. Some periods the book works just fine and I almost begins to forget the freezes. But, suddenly THE irritating freEzes are back. My idea is that it is a hardware problem. Some kind of short circuit or power break occuring after a minor physical influence. For example I have find out that the freezes occur more frequently when i move the PBook or when i change the screen position. Maybe the contacts or cables connecting the scrren with the main unit have been corroded or broken, resulting in occasional short circuiting.

If anyone know, is it possible to reconditioning the contacts in the hinge by for example using electrospray on it (to eliminate possible corrosion)?

Is it OK at all to use electrospray on computer circuits?

[Nordlys]

Hi GoodHeart,

I have bought and downloaded the Disk Warrior last week, installed it on my 12" PB and had it scanned over 15" booted on "target mode". It detected something and repaired, and when it's over and had it rebooted again I thought everything is back to normal, for it didn't freeze for about half an hour. But then within the next 24 hours it froze four times. One time in target mode, when copying files to iPod connected to 12" and thus when the 15" is not the start-up disk. So I guess it means it's pretty obvious now it's not a software issue.

I attempted to install Panther from the DVD-ROM over the existing OS of 15" but it froze again in the middle of the process. When I rebooted and tried to repeat the same process the installer no longer detects the OS to write over, so a new system folder was created. And when that is over and I booted 15" from the newly installed OS, it no longer seemed to freze. But when I tried to copy a big folder ("user" folder) containing lots of files/datas for back up, instead of freezing it encountered some error and back up is aborted in the middle of the process. So I guess I have to back up file by file but I haven't finished doing that, which is why I haven't brought my 15" to the service center yet.

It might be a problem with RAM as dekka007 has suggested. I have 1.5GB RAM (1GB + 512MB) on the 15" but I haven't removed them to test to see if it works OK without one of the RAMs. I just hope I don't have to replace the entire logic board (which is a likely scenario if it the problem is not with HDD or RAM) which can cost over 20,000 Baht.

Woin, why not bring your PB to the service center? If the problem is a loose terminal contact it shouldn't cost too much to fix it. I wouldn't want to try home remedy type approach to fixing PowerBook problems.

And thanks again for that short-cut key guide PDF GoodHeart! Just what I needed!

Edited April 5, 2006 by Nordlys

[tjo o tjim]

Dekka's advice is your best bet. RAM problems are the most common with the Macs, especially if you have 3rd party ram.

You also said you upgraded the hard drive. When did you do it, and was it one of the models "certified" to work with the PB? Were you having problems with the old hard drive, or just wanted more capacity?

There are also a lot of documented problems with networking in Panther. Are you using the network when you have the instability? (Ethernet or Airport plugged in/activated). If unplugging from the network helps your stability, you might want to upgrade to Tiger.

I know you don't loose any settings upgrading, and it should be the same re-installing Panther (although you might not be able to get all the security upgrades anymore!). If you know your hard drive to be good, a re-install can't hurt...

My old wintel laptop died basically due to corrosion from the humidity, although that should take at least 4 years unless you live right on the beach. There really isn't any good way to bring things back to life that I have ever heard of.

[Nordlys]

UPDATE: So I brought my PowerBook to the Apple service center after the Songkran holiday and it turned out it is a hardware problem which will require replacement of the entire logic board to fix the problem. And it's going to cost me 27,000 Baht (ex. VAT) which I think I have no choice but to bear.

[tjo o tjim]

That was kind of what I expected-- the Logic Boards have a high failure rate. Good reason to go for the AppleCare plan with three year warrantee. (Just reminding myself for when we get a MacBookPro one of these days.