Cannot Get Us Visa For My Mother-In-Law - Any Help Appreciated!

[MisterBKK]

Well, just finished the third attempt to get my mother-in-law a US VISA to come visit America. I hired a lawyer, did all the paperwork, all the forms, translated the chinotes, the lawyer coached her on the answers, and still rejected.

A little background: My wife has a permanent green card in the US. We just had a baby in January - I was told by the lawyer that this was a life event and usually meant that a VISA will be granted. My mother-in-law is widowed and owns a ton of land in Isaan that she farms. She has a house as well. She has another daughter living in Thailand - that daughter has a husband and two children.

I heard that the US is worried about people not returning. My mother in law has land and many reasons to return to Thailand. I cannot figure out why they will not grant the VISA. I really need some help here. Do I need to "know someone" in the US Embassy? What am I missing?

I heard that you can sign up for a tour group that comes to America. That those groups are given VISAs and after they return you know have a stamp in your passport that shows you will come back. Is this an option?

Any other help appreciated. I don't care what it costs, so any thoughts will be considered.

Thanks!

[JLCrab]

The MIL has been rejected 3 times including the last time with the help of a lawyer so there must be something going on here that you are missing. This is the line that struck me:

My mother-in-law is widowed and owns a ton of land in Isaan that she farms.

All by herself? Does she plant and harvest the rice or whatever all by herself? If she indeed has a 'ton of land' she must have some help including maybe managers who can carry on the operation for an extended period of time while she remains, as in overstays, in the USA to help you and her daughter with the new baby.

Her farm superintendent can deposit the money in one of her Thai bank accounts and she can withdraw in the USA with her ATM card. I'm just guessing but I think something like this must be in the minds of the US Embassy folks who have turned down 3 requests.

[MisterBKK]

JLCrab,

Yes, she has three hired hands that do the manual labor.

The point I was trying to make is that she is not staying in the US. She has a daughter and grandchildren in Thailand, and she has a farm and house to run. This seems like a lot of reasons to return to Thailand, and certainly more that other people that have granted VISAs.

She will not overstay her VISA. How do I convince the US Embassy of this?

Mr_BKK

[chiang mai]

JLCrab,

Yes, she has three hired hands that do the manual labor.

The point I was trying to make is that she is not staying in the US. She has a daughter and grandchildren in Thailand, and she has a farm and house to run. This seems like a lot of reasons to return to Thailand, and certainly more that other people that have granted VISAs.

She will not overstay her VISA. How do I convince the US Embassy of this?

Mr_BKK

Offer (you might not actually have to do it) to put up a surety bond that will be lost if the MIL does not return.

[Shot]

First off, I’m a little pissed that your lawyer told you, a life changing event usually means that a VISA is granted. That is a complete crock of crap in my opinion. I would have a long heated discussion with your lawyer about that.

Do the refusals discuss a reason, or section code? “Refusal under Section 214b” or something like that?

What is the requested length of stay?

What other information was presented the 1^st and 2^nd time.

Typically they will only reconsider if you are presenting “new” evidence. “New” evidence in a different box, is not “new”. It’s usually the overall picture they are looking at, that will trigger a rejection.

You don’t need to “know someone”.

I’m sure your MILs intentions are honorable, as are yours. However, the information provided in the OP, could look like a runner in the eyes of the embassy. New baby, green card, etc.

The more I think about it, I’m not a little pissed off at your lawyer……I’m a lot pissed off.

I hope this helps, or at least will spark some ideas from other members who know more about this than I.

Good luck. Keep us informed.

Shot

[Thanyaburi Mac]

A bond? No can do. I think it might still be provided for in the law but have never heard of a case where it's really been implemented. Probably too much paperwork to cover and check up on. And, lots of people would consider, for example, a $5,000 bond a cheap enough price to forfeit for a U.S. visa.

Mr BKK, I hear what you're saying, but sure looks to me like the interviewing ConOffs (I assume different people for each interview) are just looking at the package. Daughter in the U.S., with new baby. Married daughter in Thailand, independent, but perhaps capable of looking after mom's farm and house. The impression being that mom would be going to the U.S, perhaps long-term as a sort of caregiver to daughter and grandchild.

Sorry to sound negative but doesn't look too hopeful to me, in spite of your good intentions.

Mac

[JLCrab]

First I don't think surety bonds in the USA are used for that purpose.

Second, there is something in the factual details of the MIL's application that is causing the denial. You have to figure out what it is. If the farm and the house and all the other children grandchildren can get along for 6 months while she is in the USA, the embassy folks must be thinking they can get along for alot longer, maybe until the baby enters pre-school.

BTW: An immigration bond is a type of surety bond used to secure the release of a person living unlawfully within the United States from the custody of Homeland Security.

Edited May 1, 2013 by JLCrab

[MisterBKK]

In the application for her VISA; I requested a 17 day stay in America, I purchased a round trip ticket which I attached to the application.

Yes, I am pissed with my lawyer. There were some issues going on with him as well - he moved companies during this whole process and dropped out for about 3 weeks (I could not reach him). I ended up making tha appointment myself. Now I am getting more pissed, thanks Shot :-)

On her first attempt, my father in law was stll alive. We just applied for a visit.

On her second attempt, was recently after my father in law died. Loking back, we should not have even tried that attempt. We did because I was in Bangkok for the funeral and we could bring her to the Embassy.

On this attempt, now my daughter is born and that seemed to be the difference.

I will check the paperwork from the Embassy and scan/post it here. I am looking into one of the VISA services that will not charge you until you have the VISA stamp. That seems foolproof, but TiT...

Mr_BKK

[JLCrab]

Maybe you & the MIL should try something along these lines including the appropriate records from previous years:

I will purchase the rice seed and fertilizer for my X rai of farmland. At that point, I can leave the operation of the farm and the crop to my 3 trusty farm hands right up to harvest time and travel to the USA. However, at that point, it is imperative that I return to my farm to handle the sale of the crop to the local rice mill etc. as I have done for the last x number of years since my husband's demise.

That should be an elapsed time during the planting to harvest of 3 months which will be my intended stay in the USA.

And maybe that would be more of approach that would provide assurance to the Embassy ConOffs

[dighambara]

If you really love your M-I-L that much, sponsor her as a new US Immigrant and jump thru all those hoops. Then renige on the Immigration, when she returns.

[MisterBKK]

Update:

I documented my experience with the US Embassy in Bangkok and wrote to my Senator and Representative in Washington DC. That was about one week ago. No answer yet.

I have not pursued any other options - I think the only one I really have is to get another documentation package together (Ugh!), hire one of these VISA companies, and try it again.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

If you go that route of engaging one of the Visa companies here, get one that "guarantees" success, or you don't pay!

Given three rejections already, unless you have some really good additional info to submit with the package, that'd be the safest way for you to perhaps save a substantial fee for the "service."

Mac

[ubonjoe]

Your situation is one that many have had occur. Without some very firm proof of ties to Thailand that gives a person a reason to return the visa will be denied. The fact that she your wife's mother even makes it worse and raises the bar substantially.

There is probably no recourse now. The rule seems to be once refused there is a very very slim chance of the visa ever being issued unless there is a substantial change of her status.

Edited May 12, 2013 by ubonjoe

[MisterBKK]

Update

My mother in law has strong ties to Thailand! She has a home, she has a farm (>50 rai), she has a ton of family in Thailand. Daughter, grandchildren, sisters, brothers, nieces, nephews, etc.

We do not qualify for a "guaranteed" VISA since this is the US. They only guarantee is to UK and Australia. I did hire a lawyer (again), may be a waste of money but money I have. I don't have a VISA.

I am going again for a VISA try on 9/17. I have successfully obtained a letter from my representative here in the US. My mother-in-law has traveled out of Thailand for two days to Laos, and this time she is sponsoring herself. These are the three changes I made from last go around.

The completely stupid thing is that my mother in law qualifies for permanent residency in the US. I don't want her here permanently. Just a visit. This is all on the up-and-up. Such a waste of time this is.

I'll post the results after 9/17.

Mr BKK

[Shot]

Update

My mother in law has strong ties to Thailand! She has a home, she has a farm (>50 rai), she has a ton of family in Thailand. Daughter, grandchildren, sisters, brothers, nieces, nephews, etc.

We do not qualify for a "guaranteed" VISA since this is the US. They only guarantee is to UK and Australia. I did hire a lawyer (again), may be a waste of money but money I have. I don't have a VISA.

I am going again for a VISA try on 9/17. I have successfully obtained a letter from my representative here in the US. My mother-in-law has traveled out of Thailand for two days to Laos, and this time she is sponsoring herself. These are the three changes I made from last go around.

The completely stupid thing is that my mother in law qualifies for permanent residency in the US. I don't want her here permanently. Just a visit. This is all on the up-and-up. Such a waste of time this is.

I'll post the results after 9/17.

Mr BKK

Thanks for the update. I really hope she gets it. Good luck, and I look forward to your next post.

Shot

[MisterBKK]

Everything is done, paperwork complete, US representative letter of recommendation received by the US Embassy in Bangkok, visitor stamps in her passport, lawyer says we are ready to go - done!

The interview is Tuesday.

I am optimistic. I think we are finally going to overcome all this bullshit and get her a simple travel VISA to the US.

I will update the outcome next week with the result.

Mr_BKK

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Good Luck!!!

Mac

[manxninja]

most people try and get rid of the mother in law, but speaking from experience just keep applying the wifes sister applied nene times before she got her holiday visa.

good luck

[Shot]

Everything is done, paperwork complete, US representative letter of recommendation received by the US Embassy in Bangkok, visitor stamps in her passport, lawyer says we are ready to go - done!

The interview is Tuesday.

I am optimistic. I think we are finally going to overcome all this bullshit and get her a simple travel VISA to the US.

I will update the outcome next week with the result.

Mr_BKK

Today is the big day.

Good luck,

Shot

[MisterBKK]

My mother-in-law did not get the VISA. I am in shock. They did not look at any paperwork. They said that she was rejected three times before so they were rejecting her again.

I am completely disappointed.

Mr_BKK

[Tomtomtom69]

My mother-in-law did not get the VISA. I am in shock. They did not look at any paperwork. They said that she was rejected three times before so they were rejecting her again.

I am completely disappointed.

Mr_BKK

Wowa. However, I'm not surprised given that my fiance's brother had his application for a US student visa rejected 5 times, but there were numerous mistakes he made, and didn't correct on each attempt, hence he was rejected. Interestingly, my fiance herself applied for and successfully received 2 US visas, the first one was a J-1 for exchange purposes and the second one a proper F-1 student visa and spent a total of more than 5 years in the USA. Her auntie also successfully applied for and received a 10-year tourist visa with multiple entries for a 6-month stay each time, which she used once.

Did the officials first charge a fee, in order to look at the paperwork, or did they just look at the paperwork first and then reject the application, without paying a fee?

[MisterBKK]

My mother-in-law did not get the VISA. I am in shock. They did not look at any paperwork. They said that she was rejected three times before so they were rejecting her again.

I am completely disappointed.

Mr_BKK

Wowa. However, I'm not surprised given that my fiance's brother had his application for a US student visa rejected 5 times, but there were numerous mistakes he made, and didn't correct on each attempt, hence he was rejected. Interestingly, my fiance herself applied for and successfully received 2 US visas, the first one was a J-1 for exchange purposes and the second one a proper F-1 student visa and spent a total of more than 5 years in the USA. Her auntie also successfully applied for and received a 10-year tourist visa with multiple entries for a 6-month stay each time, which she used once.

Did the officials first charge a fee, in order to look at the paperwork, or did they just look at the paperwork first and then reject the application, without paying a fee?

I paid a bunch of fees every time. $160 to the embassy each time. Maybe this is how they increase their take.

No appellate process. These guys operate with impunity. No one to answer to. Unbelievable!!

[wooloomooloo]

No one to answer to. Unbelievable!!

Make sure the application is watertight. Research every detail.

A Thai lady with a Thai passport doesn't stand any more chance of a US visa when she's resident of UK.

Immigration have their rules and it's nothing personal. Just get it right.

[wprime]

There is a reason she is being rejected which they're not telling you due to privacy reasons. She will need to inquire herself, then fix the application accordingly.

[I Like Thai]

Might sound silly, but are you sure that she wants to fly to the USA for the holiday. Whose idea was it to bring her over ?

[ubonjoe]

It was probably denied under 214(.

See visa refusals here: http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/non-immigrant_visas/frequently-asked-questions.html#8

Edited September 20, 2013 by ubonjoe

[MisterBKK]

I talked with my representative and asked that she follow up with the US Dept of State. This was their response (I will edit out the names):

I checked the consular database of the U.S. Embassy in Bangkok, and found that on xx-FEB-2012; on 30-xx-2013; and on xx-SEP-2013; <last>, <first>; with passport number <123>; was refused a visa under Section 214( of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA). Under this provision, each applicant is presumed to be an intending immigrant. The consular officer is obligated to assume that each applicant for a visitor visa is ineligible until he or she proves otherwise. The INA presumes that every applicant intends to immigrate to the United States, and the law places the burden of disproving this assumption on the applicant alone.

When evaluating whether an applicant has established eligibility, a consular officer looks at the purpose of the visit and for palpable reasons a person would return to his or her own country. In doing this, the officer takes into consideration the totality of an applicant’s situation, including family, community, professional, property, and economic ties to the applicant’s home country as well as any ties to the U.S. Because each individual’s situation is different, there is no list of characteristics that will, in any given case, constitute the proof needed to overcome the presumption of immigrant intent in the INA. In the case of Ms. <last>; she was unable to establish to the satisfaction of the consular officer that she qualified for a visitor visa.

Please keep in mind that sole authority for issuance (and refusal) of visas lie with consular officers at U.S. embassies and consulates abroad. VisaNet is not authorized to override decisions made by consular officers overseas. The law stresses that there is no appeal for the denial of a visitor's visa. However, the refusal of a visitor visa is not permanent, and Ms. <last>; is welcome to reapply for a visa at any time should her circumstances change, or if she believes she can present additional evidence to demonstrate her eligibility for the visa.

We recommend, however, that individuals who wish to reapply do so only if they can present new, or more compelling evidence to overcome the previous grounds of refusal. Please be aware that nonimmigrant visa applicants worldwide are charged a $160 non-refundable fee each time a visa application is submitted. This is an application fee only and is charged whether or not a visa is issued. The fee covers the processing of the application. We assure you that any future visa application submitted by Ms. <last> will be given every possible consideration consistent with U.S. immigration law.

[daboyz1]

I talked with my representative and asked that she follow up with the US Dept of State. This was their response (I will edit out the names):

I checked the consular database of the U.S. Embassy in Bangkok, and found that on xx-FEB-2012; on 30-xx-2013; and on xx-SEP-2013; <last>, <first>; with passport number <123>; was refused a visa under Section 214( of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA). Under this provision, each applicant is presumed to be an intending immigrant. The consular officer is obligated to assume that each applicant for a visitor visa is ineligible until he or she proves otherwise. The INA presumes that every applicant intends to immigrate to the United States, and the law places the burden of disproving this assumption on the applicant alone.

When evaluating whether an applicant has established eligibility, a consular officer looks at the purpose of the visit and for palpable reasons a person would return to his or her own country. In doing this, the officer takes into consideration the totality of an applicant’s situation, including family, community, professional, property, and economic ties to the applicant’s home country as well as any ties to the U.S. Because each individual’s situation is different, there is no list of characteristics that will, in any given case, constitute the proof needed to overcome the presumption of immigrant intent in the INA. In the case of Ms. <last>; she was unable to establish to the satisfaction of the consular officer that she qualified for a visitor visa.

Please keep in mind that sole authority for issuance (and refusal) of visas lie with consular officers at U.S. embassies and consulates abroad. VisaNet is not authorized to override decisions made by consular officers overseas. The law stresses that there is no appeal for the denial of a visitor's visa. However, the refusal of a visitor visa is not permanent, and Ms. <last>; is welcome to reapply for a visa at any time should her circumstances change, or if she believes she can present additional evidence to demonstrate her eligibility for the visa.

We recommend, however, that individuals who wish to reapply do so only if they can present new, or more compelling evidence to overcome the previous grounds of refusal. Please be aware that nonimmigrant visa applicants worldwide are charged a $160 non-refundable fee each time a visa application is submitted. This is an application fee only and is charged whether or not a visa is issued. The fee covers the processing of the application. We assure you that any future visa application submitted by Ms. <last> will be given every possible consideration consistent with U.S. immigration law.

Wow. That's good you actually got a fairly detailed explanation from them. Most don't get anything close to that after a denial.

[JLCrab]

Who is VisaNet? Is the 'representative' mentioned in sentence one the OP's Congressional District US House of Representatives Member or the immigration attorney retained?

Note: There is a USCIS.gov website to track case status but it is not called 'VisaNet'

Edited January 31, 2014 by JLCrab

[MisterBKK]

Wow. That's good you actually got a fairly detailed explanation from them. Most don't get anything close to that after a denial.

I received this from my Congresswoman here in the US. You cannot get this from the Embassy (they only give that one page with a check box).

MrBKK