Wine In Checked Baggage

[doontp]

The greed of copy rights are the result of fake goods. Most designers have their product in the cheap producing countries to increase their profits, and never pass this saving down to the customer. Having witnessed the quality of some of the fake products; there is not a lot of difference. I have a fake tag watch, which was custom built, buy a small watch maker in Thailand; it is dive proof tried and tested; it has kept perfect time and now in it's 12th year, the only thing it needs is a battery like all watches. I know a guy who has deliveries of trainers every week from China; they sell like hot cakes. The current demand of kids wanting designer brands and the state of the global economy, no wonder there is a huge demand for fake goods. Obviously I feel sorry for the poor old designer, as he drives by in his roller on his way to his motor cruiser, and not let us for get the good old Government, they lose out big time "VAT and company tax" but wait a minute our Government's give big concessions to companies to limit their tax liabilities - so why should the public pay.

"the greed of copyrights are the result of fake goods"

Wait, how does greed come from fake goods?

Now Mr. Brit I believe you meant to say;

"fake goods are a result of the greed of copyrights"

Now let me tell you how dumb that statement is.

You see these evil "copyrights" are what people who invent things want. You see when you invent something cool and want to be paid for your work and you want people to know your cool thing came from YOU, you seek a copyright. A copyright says its illegal for people to use your thing to make money (if they don't ask/pay you first).

Sooo...if we have less copyrights, people are less likely to want to invent cool stuff, because it will be just copied and they won't make as much money.

make sense now?

Yes, your point of view makes sense.

When is enough money enough? After an inventor becomes a multi-millionaire, don’t u think it’s okay for others to get a little meat off the bone? Or would you rather see the millionaire inventor continue making more millions while the poor continue struggling?

People are literally starving to death daily while the rich get richer. I see a problem with that. Dam_n rich people don't like sharing anything. They want it all. They want to get richer. After that they want to control the world.

[doontp]

People selling knockoffs, fakes, or copies need to make a living too. The creaters of the original products are still making boat-loads of money.

Many people can't afford to purchase the real thing.....it's okay to offer a cheaper version. Knockoffs, fakes, copies...........whatever you want to call it allow low-income people to enjoy what upper class people can easily get.

Please remove the "half American, half amazing" thing. You are an embarrasment to Americans.

Doontp;

What if you created a T-shirt company called "Ed Cardy" where you drew pictures (each picture took 5 hours to draw) and printed them on high quality cotton that you have specially created, then sold them at 50 dollars each (lets say it cost about 20 dollars to make each shirt).

Your shirts became hugely popular as people like your drawings and high quality cotton. You expand your factory and start pumping out shirts as orders from other countries come in.

You then begin noticing your shirt designs and even your name "Ed Cardy" being sold at markets around Bangkok for 200 baht (6$). You feel the shirt and notice that the cotton is shit-quality. You watch as the shop selling the shirt with your business name "Ed Cardy" and your exact drawing that you spent 5 hours on take 200 baht from a customer.

Now, be honest, would you look at that shop, smile, and say "Im so happy these poor people get to buy a shirt that has my name, uses my drawing that I spent hours doing, and is made from cotton that is of much poorer quality. Im happy these copies of my shirt will flood the market, and Im happy that when people think about "Ed Cardy", they think about a 200 bt shirt that they can get at a Thai market."

I respect peoples' opinions even if they differ from mine, but you lost me with the personal attack.

Maybe later I'll take time and read your point of view. Perhaps I'll agree with it or not.

You really should, maybe you will learn about how business works.

edit: Glad you read my post. Now please tell me what business you were in? I would like to know what kind of business lets people copy and use their "service and products".

What business I was in is not important. Point is that others illegally provided my services and products and I cared less.

I did not feel badly effected by it. I just never reported them to the authorities. They just want to make a living. To me it’s their business if they want to do shady things. It’s not like they are killing or raping people.

Edited May 2, 2013 by metisdead
Font

[doontp]

doontp, on 02 May 2013 - 16:10, said:

From a previous post:

Its quite a accomplishment to know what profits the Rolex

corporation makes since they do not report or publish their results; its a

private company, and for your information, they donate a large part of their

profits to charities. But I do agree that they probably make some serious

profits, but what kind of argument is that for allowing fakes? What if you

would be the owner of the company or you had a private business, would you also

allow others to copy your stuff just because you make a profit?

Do a google search on Rolex…..they are worth close to $5b…..

The argument for allowing fakes is that they don’t put these large corporations out of business. These corps are still making a lot of money. Civil court awards are based on what damages are done and not on what laws are broken. These millionaire corps must prove that counterfeiters are putting them out of business versus not making as many millions as they would withoutcounterfeiters.

I owned a company, I cared less about others copying my product, because I was making a good living. Spread the joy. On the other hand, I would have had a problem if they put me out of business. Note: My definition of a good living is quite different than most. I’m not greedy. Many rich people do not want to

see poor people better their lives. The rich want the poor to stay down, beause the rich can’t be rich without poor people.

LOL...you continue to astonish me..

*personal attack removed

I still want to know what kind of business you were in. One piece of advice; the 5 billion dollar figure you googled for Rolex is not profits or revenue, it is their "brand value". Companies can have positive brand value and negative profits.

Fair enough………the fact that the word billion is associated with Rolex tells me they are doing just fine.

Edited May 2, 2013 by metisdead
30) Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes, added emoticons, or altered wording.

[JohnyBangkok]

The volume of copyrighted material available on the torrent sites (I prefer kickass) is incredible. As I can transfer to my DVD player with a memory stick, who needs to buy dubious quality pirated DVDs?

I await the Thai government to block torrents on the basis that it is putting fake DVD sellers out of business.

I am also waiting for them not allow single women, that could cut into the prostitution business as well. Less boom boom money for the local talent.

[Thai at Heart]

The volume of copyrighted material available on the torrent sites (I prefer kickass) is incredible. As I can transfer to my DVD player with a memory stick, who needs to buy dubious quality pirated DVDs?

I await the Thai government to block torrents on the basis that it is putting fake DVD sellers out of business.

Very few of the copied DVD's you will find on street are from torrents. There aren't many torrent sites or files around that cater to Thai language content, and from my experience, and speaking to Thai friends, their use of torrents isn't nearly as common as in the west.

It was a joke

No, the master copies presumably come straight from the main cinema companies.

Wouldn't that be fun. Shut down sf cinema for not honouring it's agreements.

[doontp]

From a previous post:

Its quite a accomplishment to know what profits the Rolex

corporation makes since they do not report or publish their results; its a

private company, and for your information, they donate a large part of their

profits to charities. But I do agree that they probably make some serious

profits, but what kind of argument is that for allowing fakes? What if you

would be the owner of the company or you had a private business, would you also

allow others to copy your stuff just because you make a profit?

Do a google search on Rolex…..they are worth close to $5b…..

The argument for allowing fakes is that they don’t put these large corporations out of business. These corps are still making a lot of money. Civil court awards are based on what damages are done and not on what laws are broken. These millionaire corps must prove that counterfeiters are putting them out of business versus not making as many millions as they would withoutcounterfeiters.

I owned a company, I cared less about others copying my product, because I was making a good living. Spread the joy. On the other hand, I would have had a problem if they put me out of business. Note: My definition of a good living is quite different than most. I’m not greedy. Many rich people do not want to

see poor people better their lives. The rich want the poor to stay down, beause the rich can’t be rich without poor people.

I can do a lot of searches on google, but that does not make worth the same as profit.

And it is nice of you to not stop counterfeiters since you made a good living anyways. Unfortunately it is rather hard to appose this standard on the rest of the world, since what is a good living? And you would not allow it if you didn't make a good living? You only spread the joy after you have taken care of yourself to a soft-standard?

Yes, it's hard to get people to not be greedy.

In my opinion, bringing home $10,000 per month is a good living, based on the part of the US I lived in.

I would not want it allowed if I saw that cheaters were hurting me, but I did not see that.

Yes, I would want the joy spread after I am doing fine. The inventor/originator should be awarded justly first, then others can follow.

[BradinAsia]

You're not serious right? You don't understand the economic division between a rich mans goods and a poor mans goods. That's the whole principle behind luxury goods. It's purely a status symbol and unfortunately we live in a world where we don't want to be perceived as the 'poor man', so people who can't afford the real deal want to at least appear to be of 'similar class'. This is a product of society, if there wasn't such a huge gap between classes, then this type of thing wouldn't exist. So there IS a reason/need for counterfeit goods, because society dictates it.

I also agree that copies don't devalue the original brand, otherwise chanel, LV bags etc would be worthless, but they aren't, hold re-sale value very well, even with copies of high quality around. So it's a mute point.

The whole argument on copies is that it takes profit away from the companies that produce the originals, which is rubbish. 99% of the people buying the copies would never buy or afford the original, so there is no loss of profit for them.

Same goes with music, DVDs etc, where they have made millions, if not 100's of millions from cinema releases and then charge ridiculous prices for a DVD/Blueray.

Drugs and products are very different things. One only gives you the appearance of having something that has some inflated value, the other can kill you. Don't compare them.

"Society dictates it" - What a cop-out.

I guess by "society" you are referring to people who will pay for copied/fake/imitation products.

I guess people who direct movies, design bags, produce music, create new shirts styles, develop and test new drugs, etc, etc, as well as the millions who buy their "real" (not copied) products are not part of society too.

You have zero business acumen if you believe that copies/fakes have no effect on the profits of the company who created the original product.

For example, a colleague of mine tells me she only buys Coach bags when she goes to Europe (for the tax savings) and that she would never buy and bring back a LV because everyone would think it was fake. Apparently there are less fake Coach bags.

There are many products here that Thais won't buy because people might think it is fake.

LV corp is not hurting. They're worth a few billion.

The gap between the rich and poor is too great.

The gap between rich and poor is too great, true.

Yet so many of the rich seem to be clueless about the damage this gap does to national

economies and the global economy. When millions of miserably poor folks improve their

living standard the whole world benefits. Those millions of formerly poor folks become

big consumers of goods.

It's a win-win scenario.

Many of the rich seem to ignore this as if it were inconsequential. This apathy is much

more than simple passive greed. It is both bad economics, and self-defeating.

[kblaze]

@Bradinasia + doontp

Im curious, in your view, who should decide the proper amount of money to be made on your copyrighted property before others can copy and sell it, ya know, "sharing love"

[doontp]

@Bradinasia + doontp

Im curious, in your view, who should decide the proper amount of money to be made on your copyrighted property before others can copy and sell it, ya know, "sharing love"

Maybe this is possible.....call me a dreamer, but it's never going to happen.

A court of law should decide the proper amt of money to be made on copyrighted property before others can copy and sell it.

#1 An inventor would be given the right to file a lawsuit and allow a judge/jury to determine if they are financially struggling as a result of or made no money or not enough money from their invention.

The inventor would have to prove that he/she never made millions from their invention.

It would be the inventor’s problem if he/she lost all his/her money irresponsibly and felt he/she needed more.

#2 I’d never allow a millionaire/billionaire inventor to file a lawsuit against someone who’s not a millionaire/billionaire.

There needs to be a limit on what one person should make/have while at the same time people are staving to death. Where are the laws to protect them? People really do die every minute of the day because they do not have food and water and at the same time rich people are getting richer. The powers that be could care less because they do not have to or even want to see or smell them.

I'm sure you and others can shoot holes throught this, but it's just an idea as this forum does not influence the world.

[kblaze]

@Bradinasia + doontp

Im curious, in your view, who should decide the proper amount of money to be made on your copyrighted property before others can copy and sell it, ya know, "sharing love"

Maybe this is possible.....call me a dreamer, but it's never going to happen.

A court of law should decide the proper amt of money to be made on copyrighted property before others can copy and sell it.

#1 An inventor would be given the right to file a lawsuit and allow a judge/jury to determine if they are financially struggling as a result of or made no money or not enough money from their invention.

The inventor would have to prove that he/she never made millions from their invention.

It would be the inventor’s problem if he/she lost all his/her money irresponsibly and felt he/she needed more.

#2 I’d never allow a millionaire/billionaire inventor to file a lawsuit against someone who’s not a millionaire/billionaire.

There needs to be a limit on what one person should make/have while at the same time people are staving to death. Where are the laws to protect them? People really do die every minute of the day because they do not have food and water and at the same time rich people are getting richer. The powers that be could care less because they do not have to or even want to see or smell them.

I'm sure you and others can shoot holes throught this, but it's just an idea as this forum does not influence the world.

im done shooting holes man...I think thats the post of the year.

[MRTELLYOUSTRAIGHT]

Boring argument that goes around and around in circles and has done for donkey's years.

[geriatrickid]

Generics/copies are the same thing to me. Perhaps we may have to agree to disagree on this.

A generic drug has the same recipe as the name brand drug. However, the individual components and manufacturing process are often different, except in the case of the licensed generics which usually the same ingredients. For example, the fillers used can make a difference in the taste of the product or reaction of the active ingredient. The coatings can be different as well. Bioavailability/Bioequivalency clinical trials must be conducted successfully in order for a generic to be approved. The pass does not mean that the drug will necessarily be as effective. It will work, but perhaps not as well for a small number of people.

[Amras]

You're not serious right? You don't understand the economic division between a rich mans goods and a poor mans goods. That's the whole principle behind luxury goods. It's purely a status symbol and unfortunately we live in a world where we don't want to be perceived as the 'poor man', so people who can't afford the real deal want to at least appear to be of 'similar class'. This is a product of society, if there wasn't such a huge gap between classes, then this type of thing wouldn't exist. So there IS a reason/need for counterfeit goods, because society dictates it.

I also agree that copies don't devalue the original brand, otherwise chanel, LV bags etc would be worthless, but they aren't, hold re-sale value very well, even with copies of high quality around. So it's a mute point.

The whole argument on copies is that it takes profit away from the companies that produce the originals, which is rubbish. 99% of the people buying the copies would never buy or afford the original, so there is no loss of profit for them.

Same goes with music, DVDs etc, where they have made millions, if not 100's of millions from cinema releases and then charge ridiculous prices for a DVD/Blueray.

Drugs and products are very different things. One only gives you the appearance of having something that has some inflated value, the other can kill you. Don't compare them.

"Society dictates it" - What a cop-out.

I guess by "society" you are referring to people who will pay for copied/fake/imitation products.

I guess people who direct movies, design bags, produce music, create new shirts styles, develop and test new drugs, etc, etc, as well as the millions who buy their "real" (not copied) products are not part of society too.

You have zero business acumen if you believe that copies/fakes have no effect on the profits of the company who created the original product.

For example, a colleague of mine tells me she only buys Coach bags when she goes to Europe (for the tax savings) and that she would never buy and bring back a LV because everyone would think it was fake. Apparently there are less fake Coach bags.

There are many products here that Thais won't buy because people might think it is fake.

Did you read what I said?? ...I said because of how society is set up...the rich, the middle class, the poor, who strive to have those things those in the class above them have, because without them they are 'not as well off'. The whole 'face' thing is ingrained in society everywhere (only Thailand it's much more obvious and in your face). That's my point. If there weren't such divisions and belief that people with money are better than those of middle or lower class, then luxury goods (and their fake counterparts) wouldn't hold the value to people that they do. You seriously can't argue with that? Did I say it was right, good? No, it's a simple product of our society and the marketing that makes us 'want the luxury goods', even if they hold no real extra value.

It depends how you term profits. Most companies equate every single copy, pirated product, or pirated software as value as if that product was sold, in their determination of 'lost profits'. Which just is BS, because those people wouldn't be buying originals in the first place. That's what they complain about.

Does this affect others buying a particular brand, possibly, but it's much more difficult to calculate at what cost. Yes, Thailand (and a lot of Asia) are big issues with fakes, where the majority of the population can't afford the goods anyway (so a small number of overall sales worldwide for any luxury brand). In the west (the largest market for these products), it is a very different situation. I doubt 3rd world Asian counties make up a large proportion of the sales of said products world wide, so the effect, although some, would be quite small.

So maybe I didn't explain in detailed enough, but you need to think of so many factors. But I still keep my stance, it has little impact overall.

The movie industry is overpaid anyway, they are overvalued in society, but that's another discussion. Musicians, most of the stuff ripped off is mass produced garbage. Drugs and medicine are very different things (I've worked in and with pharmaceutical companies so I do know about this). Generics are the equivalent of a 'copy' but they are out of patent, so there is no law against reverse engineering a formulation (after a patent expires). Yes there are copy drugs, but its a dangerous thing to even contemplate and I'm suprised there is even demand for it, when the difference in value is quite small.

It's such a complicated issue, possibly if things (music, movies etc) weren't so overpriced, there wouldn't be such a big issue, as pirating would take more time then it's worth.

[Amras]

Generics/copies are the same thing to me. Perhaps we may have to agree to disagree on this.

A generic drug has the same recipe as the name brand drug. However, the individual components and manufacturing process are often different, except in the case of the licensed generics which usually the same ingredients. For example, the fillers used can make a difference in the taste of the product or reaction of the active ingredient. The coatings can be different as well. Bioavailability/Bioequivalency clinical trials must be conducted successfully in order for a generic to be approved. The pass does not mean that the drug will necessarily be as effective. It will work, but perhaps not as well for a small number of people.

True, but it's a very small percentage (if any) that it will not work as well in. Any reputable generic manufacturer (unless they are indian based) knows how to formulate a proper generic and the development phase can take years on reverse formulation as well. They don't put out half a**** generics. Indian manufacturer's well......

[whistleblower]

People selling knockoffs, fakes, or copies need to make a living too. The creaters of the original products are still making boat-loads of money.

Many people can't afford to purchase the real thing.....it's okay to offer a cheaper version. Knockoffs, fakes, copies...........whatever you want to call it allow low-income people to enjoy what upper class people can easily get.

Making money off other peoples backs and hard work/creativity is not making a living! It's laziness.

And if you cant afford the real thing? buy something in your price range instead of being a wannabe!

Thailand has a habit of churning out materialistic pretentious wannabes.

Your statement of allowing low income people to enjoy what upper class people can easily get is moronic.

It always amazes me every year when this list comes out and Thailand is always on it that so many people rush to Thailand's defense.

Apart from rice, Thailand makes NOTHING. It then believes that copying/faking other peoples ideas/products is a legitimate way to make money, when they are put on this list they cry foul and say they are being unfairly picked on. Just watch the papers in the next few weeks. There will be pictures of fat corrupt police/Govt officials etc crushing seized fake Rolex watches and pirate DVD's in their new 'clampdown', thinking this will appease the foreign governments, when they all know this is showboating and no real effort will be made to stop piracy. Thailand has a knee jerk reaction to every criticism. Stop gap measures to appease everyone, from poor Isaan farmer to tourists.

ASEAN will be a massive eye opener to the Thai nationalists and just show them how backward and uninfluential they really are on the world stage.

[whistleblower]

@Bradinasia + doontp

Im curious, in your view, who should decide the proper amount of money to be made on your copyrighted property before others can copy and sell it, ya know, "sharing love"

Maybe this is possible.....call me a dreamer, but it's never going to happen.

A court of law should decide the proper amt of money to be made on copyrighted property before others can copy and sell it.

#1 An inventor would be given the right to file a lawsuit and allow a judge/jury to determine if they are financially struggling as a result of or made no money or not enough money from their invention.

The inventor would have to prove that he/she never made millions from their invention.

It would be the inventor’s problem if he/she lost all his/her money irresponsibly and felt he/she needed more.

#2 I’d never allow a millionaire/billionaire inventor to file a lawsuit against someone who’s not a millionaire/billionaire.

There needs to be a limit on what one person should make/have while at the same time people are staving to death. Where are the laws to protect them? People really do die every minute of the day because they do not have food and water and at the same time rich people are getting richer. The powers that be could care less because they do not have to or even want to see or smell them.

I'm sure you and others can shoot holes throught this, but it's just an idea as this forum does not influence the world.

Yada yada yada,

People die every minute of the day due to no food or water. But from my experience in Thailand they usually die with a cell phone in their hand or a Karaoke machine in their house that is worth more than the house itself! Their ARE certain countries where famine etc is a problem. NOT in Thailand.

Instead of cashing in on other peoples ideas/inventions, 'poor' Thai people should grow a backbone, stop taking bribes for votes, stop getting paid to protest, and elect a government that will work for the people.

But of course that will never happen when it is to easy to get paid 300baht a day to look stupid with 'foot clappers' sitting outside some office protesting against something they have no clue about.

I would be interested to know what country you come from doontp.

[Joe Mamma]

That Rolex picture up top is 1 of the worst examples I have ever seen, whoever wears that rubbish will look a total pratt and have a green wrist to boot. I fail to see how copied Rolex watches effect the real market, totally different customers, people who want quality and will pay for it versus tasteless chavs.

It diminishes the brand value.

They are still and will always be a top brand. Show me proof that the Rolex brand has been diminished. That corporation still rakes in lots of revenue.

Yes . all the stuck up superiority freaks who mash on designer and other marketed crap to the people who think money makes them better than the other menial folks. I suppose there are people who like them that don't have their head up their ass, but i haven't met one yet.

Had a friend get his head smashed in for his fake rolex.

[Kalbo]

From a previous post:

Its quite a accomplishment to know what profits the Rolex

corporation makes since they do not report or publish their results; its a

private company, and for your information, they donate a large part of their

profits to charities. But I do agree that they probably make some serious

profits, but what kind of argument is that for allowing fakes? What if you

would be the owner of the company or you had a private business, would you also

allow others to copy your stuff just because you make a profit?

Do a google search on Rolex…..they are worth close to $5b…..

The argument for allowing fakes is that they don’t put these large corporations out of business. These corps are still making a lot of money. Civil court awards are based on what damages are done and not on what laws are broken. These millionaire corps must prove that counterfeiters are putting them out of business versus not making as many millions as they would withoutcounterfeiters.

I owned a company, I cared less about others copying my product, because I was making a good living. Spread the joy. On the other hand, I would have had a problem if they put me out of business. Note: My definition of a good living is quite different than most. I’m not greedy. Many rich people do not want to

see poor people better their lives. The rich want the poor to stay down, beause the rich can’t be rich without poor people.

I can do a lot of searches on google, but that does not make worth the same as profit.

And it is nice of you to not stop counterfeiters since you made a good living anyways. Unfortunately it is rather hard to appose this standard on the rest of the world, since what is a good living? And you would not allow it if you didn't make a good living? You only spread the joy after you have taken care of yourself to a soft-standard?

Yes, it's hard to get people to not be greedy.

In my opinion, bringing home $10,000 per month is a good living, based on the part of the US I lived in.

I would not want it allowed if I saw that cheaters were hurting me, but I did not see that.

Yes, I would want the joy spread after I am doing fine. The inventor/originator should be awarded justly first, then others can follow.

I agree 100% with what you've written above, but what would your opinion be if the inventor/originator was not rewarded justly first ?

[Kalbo]

@Bradinasia + doontp

Im curious, in your view, who should decide the proper amount of money to be made on your copyrighted property before others can copy and sell it, ya know, "sharing love"

Maybe this is possible.....call me a dreamer, but it's never going to happen.

A court of law should decide the proper amt of money to be made on copyrighted property before others can copy and sell it.

#1 An inventor would be given the right to file a lawsuit and allow a judge/jury to determine if they are financially struggling as a result of or made no money or not enough money from their invention.

The inventor would have to prove that he/she never made millions from their invention.

It would be the inventor’s problem if he/she lost all his/her money irresponsibly and felt he/she needed more.

#2 I’d never allow a millionaire/billionaire inventor to file a lawsuit against someone who’s not a millionaire/billionaire.

There needs to be a limit on what one person should make/have while at the same time people are staving to death. Where are the laws to protect them? People really do die every minute of the day because they do not have food and water and at the same time rich people are getting richer. The powers that be could care less because they do not have to or even want to see or smell them.

I'm sure you and others can shoot holes throught this, but it's just an idea as this forum does not influence the world.

What you've described above is, very simply speaking, the same process they use when new drugs or medications are made, to allow the developer to gain some profit from the hard work done, but allowing, at a later date, the patent to expire, hence making the generic version available.

[Bob12345]

Its fun to read how people "justify" their extreme opinions where they allow stealing.

"The corporations are already rich enough", "the designers have a lot of money already", "people are dying of lack of food".

Especially that last one, where people die of lack of food and water, is quite astonishing since making fake watches and handbags will not help much of providing those people with food and water. If you rob a food delivery truck than i could imagine you are trying to help them, but how do you help them by selling fake handbags?

There is not a criminal in the world who does not first justify their own behavior. Even murderers and rapists always blame their mental condition, society, people around them, or "the system". That still does not make it right.

Did you read what I said?? ...I said because of how society is set up...the rich, the middle class, the poor, who strive to have those things those in the class above them have, because without them they are 'not as well off'. The whole 'face' thing is ingrained in society everywhere (only Thailand it's much more obvious and in your face). That's my point. If there weren't such divisions and belief that people with money are better than those of middle or lower class, then luxury goods (and their fake counterparts) wouldn't hold the value to people that they do. You seriously can't argue with that? Did I say it was right, good? No, it's a simple product of our society and the marketing that makes us 'want the luxury goods', even if they hold no real extra value.

Do others see you as inferior because you don't own brand stuff? Maybe time to find a new crowd to hand out with. Your self-confidence must be really low that you see a need for overpriced brand stuff to fit in.

I can imagine this happening with kids who get teased at school because they don't have the "cool" stuff, but we are supposed to be adults. To stop making lame excuses, man up, and be yourself without being ashamed. If you cannot effort it, don't buy it and don't fake it.

@doontp:
#2 I’d never allow a millionaire/billionaire inventor to file a lawsuit against someone who’s not a millionaire/billionaire.

You seem a big supporter of communism, a system that has proven to work worse than capitalism; not only in economic terms but also on the level of human dignity and happiness (its no fun to have no food).
At least communism treated everybody the same (in theory), while you make that a step worse by basing justice on someones accumulated wealth. Poor people can break laws, while rich ones cannot call them to justice? That would result in a nice society after a few years, at least weapon manufacturers will profit well at the start when people start to arm up before all hell breaks loose.

[Sayonarax]

Fake goods, organised crime control this market. They have even found fake military aircraft parts. Just think of this next time you fly. It effects all of society!

An anti counterfeit plane parts organisation has already be established to prevent this type of accident from occurring.

[geriatrickid]

Generics/copies are the same thing to me. Perhaps we may have to agree to disagree on this.

A generic drug has the same recipe as the name brand drug. However, the individual components and manufacturing process are often different, except in the case of the licensed generics which usually the same ingredients. For example, the fillers used can make a difference in the taste of the product or reaction of the active ingredient. The coatings can be different as well. Bioavailability/Bioequivalency clinical trials must be conducted successfully in order for a generic to be approved. The pass does not mean that the drug will necessarily be as effective. It will work, but perhaps not as well for a small number of people.

True, but it's a very small percentage (if any) that it will not work as well in. Any reputable generic manufacturer (unless they are indian based) knows how to formulate a proper generic and the development phase can take years on reverse formulation as well. They don't put out half a**** generics. Indian manufacturer's well......

I don't disagree with you, but one of the little secrets of the pharma industry is that a great many of the approved generics in the west are licensed from the name brands. The active ingredients are often sourced from the same suppliers. This is one of Thailand's problems. IMO the generics are not as reliable as the original product or the licensed generics. I have refused common Thai drugs and opted for the European manufacturer at a much higher cost because I have no confidence in the integrity of the Thai pharmaceutical supply chain.

The funny thing about India, is it has now become one of the world's largest active ingredient suppliers and third party contractors for the western pharma industry. The big difference between western pharma manufacturers and Indian manufacturers though is that a drug is quality tested along the chain and the manufacturer can pinpoint where a defect has occurred.

[whistleblower]

@Bradinasia + doontp

Im curious, in your view, who should decide the proper amount of money to be made on your copyrighted property before others can copy and sell it, ya know, "sharing love"

Maybe this is possible.....call me a dreamer, but it's never going to happen.

A court of law should decide the proper amt of money to be made on copyrighted property before others can copy and sell it.

#1 An inventor would be given the right to file a lawsuit and allow a judge/jury to determine if they are financially struggling as a result of or made no money or not enough money from their invention.

The inventor would have to prove that he/she never made millions from their invention.

It would be the inventor’s problem if he/she lost all his/her money irresponsibly and felt he/she needed more.

#2 I’d never allow a millionaire/billionaire inventor to file a lawsuit against someone who’s not a millionaire/billionaire.

There needs to be a limit on what one person should make/have while at the same time people are staving to death. Where are the laws to protect them? People really do die every minute of the day because they do not have food and water and at the same time rich people are getting richer. The powers that be could care less because they do not have to or even want to see or smell them.

I'm sure you and others can shoot holes throught this, but it's just an idea as this forum does not influence the world.

What you've described above is, very simply speaking, the same process they use when new drugs or medications are made, to allow the developer to gain some profit from the hard work done, but allowing, at a later date, the patent to expire, hence making the generic version available.

There are 'generic' versions of Rolex's, they are called Timex, For generic clothes go to Walmart! It always makes me laugh when I see skin headed, overweight tatood men sporting a fake Rolex watch arm in arm with their BG girlfriend with a Louis Vitton handbag. Maybe that's why the producers of these products protest so much.

[webfact]

Thailand upset with PWL label for sixth year
By Digital Media

BANGKOK, May 3 – Thailand will remain on the United States government’s Priority Watch List (PWL) despite its unrelenting crackdown on violations of intellectual property rights, a senior Commerce Ministry official said.

Patchima Tanasanti, Intellectual Property Department director general, said the United States Trade Representative (USTR) announced Tuesday that it would retain Thailand on the PWL for the sixth consecutive year given its failure to amend the copyright law to impose harsher punishment on intellectual property (IP) infringements, especially on the Internet and in cinemas.

The American intellectual property watchdog agency set a condition that Thailand will not be upgraded to the less-stringent Watch List (WL) until the copyright law is rewritten.

A revised law to add penalties for IP infringement on the Internet and in cinemas is scheduled for parliamentary approval later this year.

The Intellectual Property Department is holding an IP Fair at Queen Sirikit Convention Centre on May 17-19 to encourage business negotiations on IP innovations and create understanding among the general public on intellectual property protection. (MCOT online news)


-- TNA 2013-05-03

[whistleblower]

Thailand upset with PWL label for sixth year

By Digital Media

BANGKOK, May 3 – Thailand will remain on the United States government’s Priority Watch List (PWL) despite its unrelenting crackdown on violations of intellectual property rights, a senior Commerce Ministry official said.

Patchima Tanasanti, Intellectual Property Department director general, said the United States Trade Representative (USTR) announced Tuesday that it would retain Thailand on the PWL for the sixth consecutive year given its failure to amend the copyright law to impose harsher punishment on intellectual property (IP) infringements, especially on the Internet and in cinemas.

The American intellectual property watchdog agency set a condition that Thailand will not be upgraded to the less-stringent Watch List (WL) until the copyright law is rewritten.

A revised law to add penalties for IP infringement on the Internet and in cinemas is scheduled for parliamentary approval later this year.

The Intellectual Property Department is holding an IP Fair at Queen Sirikit Convention Centre on May 17-19 to encourage business negotiations on IP innovations and create understanding among the general public on intellectual property protection. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2013-05-03

Err, what unrelenting crackdown is that??

Doing a couple of we publicized raids on Patpong just before the list is published convinces no one!!!!

[Kalbo]

Thailand upset with PWL label for sixth year

By Digital Media

BANGKOK, May 3 – Thailand will remain on the United States government’s Priority Watch List (PWL) despite its unrelenting crackdown on violations of intellectual property rights, a senior Commerce Ministry official said.

Patchima Tanasanti, Intellectual Property Department director general, said the United States Trade Representative (USTR) announced Tuesday that it would retain Thailand on the PWL for the sixth consecutive year given its failure to amend the copyright law to impose harsher punishment on intellectual property (IP) infringements, especially on the Internet and in cinemas.

The American intellectual property watchdog agency set a condition that Thailand will not be upgraded to the less-stringent Watch List (WL) until the copyright law is rewritten.

A revised law to add penalties for IP infringement on the Internet and in cinemas is scheduled for parliamentary approval later this year.

The Intellectual Property Department is holding an IP Fair at Queen Sirikit Convention Centre on May 17-19 to encourage business negotiations on IP innovations and create understanding among the general public on intellectual property protection. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2013-05-03

"Unrelenting crackdown" (snigger)

[Pimay1]

Thailand upset with PWL label for sixth year

By Digital Media

BANGKOK, May 3 – Thailand will remain on the United States government’s Priority Watch List (PWL) despite its unrelenting crackdown on violations of intellectual property rights, a senior Commerce Ministry official said.

Patchima Tanasanti, Intellectual Property Department director general, said the United States Trade Representative (USTR) announced Tuesday that it would retain Thailand on the PWL for the sixth consecutive year given its failure to amend the copyright law to impose harsher punishment on intellectual property (IP) infringements, especially on the Internet and in cinemas.

The American intellectual property watchdog agency set a condition that Thailand will not be upgraded to the less-stringent Watch List (WL) until the copyright law is rewritten.

A revised law to add penalties for IP infringement on the Internet and in cinemas is scheduled for parliamentary approval later this year.

The Intellectual Property Department is holding an IP Fair at Queen Sirikit Convention Centre on May 17-19 to encourage business negotiations on IP innovations and create understanding among the general public on intellectual property protection. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2013-05-03

"Unrelenting crackdown" (snigger)

Wonder if this "crackdown team" is the same one that is cracking down on the BIB run casinos?

[Amras]

Its fun to read how people "justify" their extreme opinions where they allow stealing.

"The corporations are already rich enough", "the designers have a lot of money already", "people are dying of lack of food".

Especially that last one, where people die of lack of food and water, is quite astonishing since making fake watches and handbags will not help much of providing those people with food and water. If you rob a food delivery truck than i could imagine you are trying to help them, but how do you help them by selling fake handbags?

There is not a criminal in the world who does not first justify their own behavior. Even murderers and rapists always blame their mental condition, society, people around them, or "the system". That still does not make it right.

Did you read what I said?? ...I said because of how society is set up...the rich, the middle class, the poor, who strive to have those things those in the class above them have, because without them they are 'not as well off'. The whole 'face' thing is ingrained in society everywhere (only Thailand it's much more obvious and in your face). That's my point. If there weren't such divisions and belief that people with money are better than those of middle or lower class, then luxury goods (and their fake counterparts) wouldn't hold the value to people that they do. You seriously can't argue with that? Did I say it was right, good? No, it's a simple product of our society and the marketing that makes us 'want the luxury goods', even if they hold no real extra value.

Do others see you as inferior because you don't own brand stuff? Maybe time to find a new crowd to hand out with. Your self-confidence must be really low that you see a need for overpriced brand stuff to fit in.

I can imagine this happening with kids who get teased at school because they don't have the "cool" stuff, but we are supposed to be adults. To stop making lame excuses, man up, and be yourself without being ashamed. If you cannot effort it, don't buy it and don't fake it.

@doontp:

#2 I’d never allow a millionaire/billionaire inventor to file a lawsuit against someone who’s not a millionaire/billionaire.

You seem a big supporter of communism, a system that has proven to work worse than capitalism; not only in economic terms but also on the level of human dignity and happiness (its no fun to have no food).

At least communism treated everybody the same (in theory), while you make that a step worse by basing justice on someones accumulated wealth. Poor people can break laws, while rich ones cannot call them to justice? That would result in a nice society after a few years, at least weapon manufacturers will profit well at the start when people start to arm up before all hell breaks loose.

What? Where did I say I need to buy these products? I never said I had the problem, I said society does as a whole. I will generally buy things on quality, not on a brand name. I never ever said I need to or submit to these pressures (besides where did I say I don't own brand stuff?). Re-read what I said, and stop personally attacking me because it makes you feel better. I'm discussing SOCIETY as a whole. This is a societal problem, due to TV, marketing, high profile influential people 'telling' everyone they need this product to look cool, or fit in. This is WHY marketing works as well it does and why PR and marketing companies get paid huge lumps of money. Maybe you need to educate yourself about marketing psychology. It only works because of emotions, because of societal divisions.

If you cannot effort it, don't buy it and don't fake it.

No idea what this means, you mean afford?

Maybe you (personally) have money or not. However it's very easy for those WITH to become jaded about the desires (and societal pressures) of those WITHOUT. Stop sitting on your high horse and look at how society IS, not how it probably should be. Personally I think luxury items are BS, offer no real value comparatively to their price (ie they are overpriced) and are only another way for the wealthy to part with their money and feel good about having something that others 'can't afford'. There is NO other 'real' reason for the existence of luxury goods, except show (from a point on wards quality becomes irrelevant relative to the increase in price).

To your reply at doontp....

Wow if you think that money plays no current part in what crimes the wealthy get away with compared to the common man, you need to open your eyes. It's quite obvious here, and subtle but prevalent EVERYWHERE else. In fact the poor now can't get away with anything, while the rich can often do whatever they want and get away with it. This exists, everywhere.

[Amras]

@Bradinasia + doontp

Im curious, in your view, who should decide the proper amount of money to be made on your copyrighted property before others can copy and sell it, ya know, "sharing love"

Maybe this is possible.....call me a dreamer, but it's never going to happen.

A court of law should decide the proper amt of money to be made on copyrighted property before others can copy and sell it.

#1 An inventor would be given the right to file a lawsuit and allow a judge/jury to determine if they are financially struggling as a result of or made no money or not enough money from their invention.

The inventor would have to prove that he/she never made millions from their invention.

It would be the inventor’s problem if he/she lost all his/her money irresponsibly and felt he/she needed more.

#2 I’d never allow a millionaire/billionaire inventor to file a lawsuit against someone who’s not a millionaire/billionaire.

There needs to be a limit on what one person should make/have while at the same time people are staving to death. Where are the laws to protect them? People really do die every minute of the day because they do not have food and water and at the same time rich people are getting richer. The powers that be could care less because they do not have to or even want to see or smell them.

I'm sure you and others can shoot holes throught this, but it's just an idea as this forum does not influence the world.

What you've described above is, very simply speaking, the same process they use when new drugs or medications are made, to allow the developer to gain some profit from the hard work done, but allowing, at a later date, the patent to expire, hence making the generic version available.

There are 'generic' versions of Rolex's, they are called Timex, For generic clothes go to Walmart! It always makes me laugh when I see skin headed, overweight tatood men sporting a fake Rolex watch arm in arm with their BG girlfriend with a Louis Vitton handbag. Maybe that's why the producers of these products protest so much.

But there's also the other issue. A lot of high quality products (ie rolex or any real decent brand of watch) are made in the west and hence why you pay for them. Rolex's are made in Switzerland for instance. However copies are made in China, so there is a difference.

Many other brand name products (ie shoes) are made in third world countries (ie China) where the copies come from also.

I personally, don't mind paying for a quality brand name product, but it drives me insane when a brand name, is made in China but charges 10x the price of similar items made there.

For instance, I have a friend who is a mens t-shirt designer. Clothes all made in australia, fabric from australia and sells them for $70 aud. Comparatively, a SABA (or any brand name) t-shirt will cost you the same or more, but they are all made in Chinese factories for a few dollars, yet people pay it.

These companies are making huge profits, not because of a overall better quality product, but because of good marketing and the societal pressures I've discussed in another post. That's all it is.

I do agree with you though, that it's quite funny to see the obviously fake copies of clothes and watches on people and I honestly just think why bother.

[wealth]

there is quite a high number of brand names which are secretly guided by them to keep their brand flying. You never hear any of those complain about it. WHY? They then also secretly giggle when someone fights for them to make their brand higher in value and happy to receive free PR

then there are some who care, like Versa..., who has detectives around quite efficiently. You hardly find any copy of that brand and better don't try. Less than one or two month and you're in troubles big time.

Unless those brandish foolish companies not show up in public or at least establish contacts and employ detectives I don't give a hoot.