Air India Cabin Crew Fly Bangkok-Delhi Plane While Pilots Have A Nap

[bendywire]

Whatever it is it should be enough to keep you lot moaning for at least another 24 hours. 555 Like watching loose women reading this forum sometimes.

TV the answer to all the worlds problems.

[wellred]

Whatever it is it should be enough to keep you lot moaning for at least another 24 hours. 555 Like watching loose women reading this forum sometimes.

TV the answer to all the worlds problems.

TV... Solving the worlds problems by moaning 1 thread at a time.

[AriT]

Some facts: avherald.com/h?article=461b7ada&opt=0

[Chicog]

Absolute rubbish to even suggest that BOTH pilots left the cockpit to take a nap. Overcrowding a cockpit by cabin crew does happen, and not just at Air India . I don't believe a word of this.

They aren't "suggesting" it, they are reporting it.

I remember a few years ago a 737 FO on a Gulf Carrier woke up on Christmas morning in Doha and realised he was too pissed to fly (as was the Captain).

He reported it and was fired. The (Arab) Captain never even got a suspension.

Edited May 4, 2013 by Chicog

[Pimay1]

I wonder if one of the flight attendants was a previous Cathay Pacific employee?

[GentlemanJim]

Some facts: avherald.com/h?article=461b7ada&opt=0

OMG don't start bring facts to TV! This will be a major subject of conversation for the lunchtime drinking of all the TV 'aviation experts' that have popped up since last night!

I don't believe this story the way the press have told it, I think it is complete exaggerated BS. It is also incredibly easy to knock out the auto pilot on the airbus and you simply re-engage it. The auto pilot is designed to be easily accessible in the event it needs to be disengaged. I don't believe both crew left the cockpit for a 40 minute nap. It is standard procedure that when a member of flight crew leaves the cockpit for a pee break (unless you want them to wear diapers) that a member of cabin crew sits in and makes sure the remaining flight crew does not fall asleep. One issue now is that so many airlines have anally retentive, witch hunting management, that all crews are terrified of being reported upon by another. Even the simplest of errors will result in someone reporting another, as failure to do so would be a black mark against themselves. IF the co-pilot/First Officer, knocked out the auto pilot (an easy and NON event) while a member of cabin crew were there, he would have known that if he did not report it, it is likely a member of the cabin crew would have done so and he would then have been in bigger trouble. Normally the cabin crew who will monitor the flight crew in the event of a pee break will sit in the jump seat. They are not normally invited in to the main seats as it is so easy to knock out the auto pilot etc with your knee if you don't know what you are doing.

All hype to sell newspapers and no doubt Air India's competitors have paid to whip up the media frenzy and are laughing all the way to the queues outside their ticketing offices.

[dressedingreen]

The pilots realized the auto-pilot had been turned off in their sleep?

A nosedive does tend to waken even the deepest of Bollywood dreamers.

DIG

Edited May 4, 2013 by dressedingreen

[GentlemanJim]

Absolute rubbish to even suggest that BOTH pilots left the cockpit to take a nap. Overcrowding a cockpit by cabin crew does happen, and not just at Air India . I don't believe a word of this.

They aren't "suggesting" it, they are reporting it.

I remember a few years ago a 737 FO on a Gulf Carrier woke up on Christmas morning in Doha and realised he was too pissed to fly (as was the Captain).

He reported it and was fired. The (Arab) Captain never even got a suspension.

Were you a member of the airline concerned? If not how did you come by this little gem?

[Pimay1]

Some facts: avherald.com/h?article=461b7ada&opt=0

OMG don't start bring facts to TV! This will be a major subject of conversation for the lunchtime drinking of all the TV 'aviation experts' that have popped up since last night!

I don't believe this story the way the press have told it, I think it is complete exaggerated BS. It is also incredibly easy to knock out the auto pilot on the airbus and you simply re-engage it. The auto pilot is designed to be easily accessible in the event it needs to be disengaged. I don't believe both crew left the cockpit for a 40 minute nap. It is standard procedure that when a member of flight crew leaves the cockpit for a pee break (unless you want them to wear diapers) that a member of cabin crew sits in and makes sure the remaining flight crew does not fall asleep. One issue now is that so many airlines have anally retentive, witch hunting management, that all crews are terrified of being reported upon by another. Even the simplest of errors will result in someone reporting another, as failure to do so would be a black mark against themselves. IF the co-pilot/First Officer, knocked out the auto pilot (an easy and NON event) while a member of cabin crew were there, he would have known that if he did not report it, it is likely a member of the cabin crew would have done so and he would then have been in bigger trouble. Normally the cabin crew who will monitor the flight crew in the event of a pee break will sit in the jump seat. They are not normally invited in to the main seats as it is so easy to knock out the auto pilot etc with your knee if you don't know what you are doing.

All hype to sell newspapers and no doubt Air India's competitors have paid to whip up the media frenzy and are laughing all the way to the queues outside their ticketing offices.

Agree with you Jim. Before I retired the company I worked for had numerous accounts in India. I went there regularly as account manager. When there was an issue I could speak with five people and get five different versions of the truth.

[naboo]

Exactly why I don't fly Air India.

Really? You have seen suitable tickets, then thought "nah, their pilots go for a Kip and leave the trolley dollies to fly the plane"?

[RKASA]

I don't see the problem - what is the use of auto if you don't use him

[hawker9000]

The pilots realized the auto-pilot had been turned off in their sleep?

Possibly the screams of passengers as the plane started plummeting woke them.

Easy there, cowboy. Aircraft was probably still trimmed or nearly so. Passengers possibly not even aware of the situation. "Plummeting" out of control as you suggest (or "in a nose dive" as someone else did) I doubt the pilots could've made it back to the cockpit! A bad situation. No need to try & make it sound worse. I'm a bit skeptical of the story in the first place.

Edited May 4, 2013 by hawker9000

[Mudcrab]

Absolute rubbish to even suggest that BOTH pilots left the cockpit to take a nap. Overcrowding a cockpit by cabin crew does happen, and not just at Air India . I don't believe a word of this.

In your opinion...what do you think really happened? Not being a smart arse...I really would like to know

[SeaVisionBurma]

Absolute rubbish to even suggest that BOTH pilots left the cockpit to take a nap. Overcrowding a cockpit by cabin crew does happen, and not just at Air India . I don't believe a word of this.

In your opinion...what do you think really happened? Not being a smart arse...I really would like to know

Pays to read all the posts.

Aviation Herald Article

This account has also been supported by posts on the professional Pilot's forum pprune

The 2 pilots did not both go and have a sleep for 40 minutes.

[Andre0720]

''leaving two flight attendants in charge of flying the plane who accidentally turned off the autopilot,''

Darn it, just cant rely on these flight attendants nowadays...

[jimbeam1]

Flight attendant 1 : What is this button, do you think it's an issue if I push it.

Flight attendant 2 : Stay clear of that button ( imagine the wobble head at the same time )

oops I have switched off the auto piltot

Just as well it wasn't auto eject. Byyyyyyyyyyyyyy

jb1

[jimbeam1]

This isolated incident is bad image for the airline; which is sad because other AI pilots are certainly very professional.

I flew Air India to Paris last month and was very satisfied. And will fly again.

Yep you don't hear of many dropping out of the sky.

jb1

[Secondmouse]

The airline related blogs have similar versions of the story and it appears that the flying officer self reported.

However, a word of caution: The Indian press has a "thing" for the Indian aviation sector, especially Air India. There is a possibility that the event has not been accurately reported.

That being said, I refuse to fly Air India, or Jet for that matter because I have no confidence in the airlines. That and my dislike of the Delhi and Mumbai airports as transit hubs. I am always amazed by people that pick these airlines when they have alternatives.

I think you meant 'First Officer', next in rank after Captain ?...same as maritime...

Edited May 8, 2013 by metisdead
Bold font removed.

[Colabamumbai]

Exactly why I don't fly Air India.

Imagine the sense of adventure you get for free flying Air India

It is the same as talking to your Canadian bank in Bangalore India. You feel like you are there. Or as my name says in Colaba Mumbai.

[GentlemanJim]

Absolute rubbish to even suggest that BOTH pilots left the cockpit to take a nap. Overcrowding a cockpit by cabin crew does happen, and not just at Air India . I don't believe a word of this.

I tend to agree and why would cabin crew enter the vacant cockpit (or was the navigator still present), even locate the autopilot button and then shut it off. Or was this payback as a sense of being pissed off at sleeping pilots. Too many questions at this point to believe the stupidity of the act. Similarly why suspend the cabin crew? They 'appear' to have got the pilots back in the chair.

Everyone involved, crew wise, should be suspended, until it's 'sorted'! And seems to me that the cabin crew didn't 'locate' the auto-pilot or they wouldn't have turned it off, knowing what it was.. maybe even 'larking', suddenly in charge of a plane they thought was 'flying itself'.. just like the kids of the Russian Captain were allowed to do some years back, when the boy pushing the controls to one side for over 30 seconds automatically disengaged the auto-pilot and no-one realised until too late!!! Sadly everyone on board that flight were killed, so this incident, with clearly similar potential for such tragic consequences turned out fortuitous in the extreme that it didn't result otherwise than it did!!! As for your statement, 'Too many questions to believe the stupidity of the act'?.. sorry but that is ZERO basis for not believing the lengths to which human error AND stupidity can extend (example as per aforementioned)!!! In fact there'd be very few accidents, air, road or anywhere else if it weren't for such stupidity and, basically, the abject failure of too many to just do the normal, sensible, smart thing, or like in this case.. the job you were trained to do, man!!! ('absolute rubbish that both pilots would leave the cockpit to take a nap'? .. obviously Carib is ex or current airline or such.. sticking by colleagues across the sea?.. because regardless of the still to be properly established events of this incident, such things do and have happened with terrifying regularity - we can only hope to truly learn from such incidents - and keep our fingers crossed!!? - in regard to the future!!! Simple, if disturbing, FACT!)

Well in order to learn from the incidents, you need to understand the incidents, and you do not understand the incident concerning the Aeroflot airbus, that much is apparent from what you have written above. This incident bears absolutely zero resemblance to the Aeroflot incident. The boy did not 'knock out' the auto pilot, a situation was created that was very complex in its nature and had not been seen in any simulations.

Now why doesn't everybody calm down and wait to find out what really happened, because I will warrant that the reality bears no resemblance to what's being reported.

[EyesWideOpen]

An odd story. If true , completely bizarre. If not true there is a whole lot of lying going on about what really happened. But the simple reality is the flight data recorder should be able to reconstruct what really happened, using the voice cockpit recordings. The fact to me that Air India has not IMMEDIATELY come out with this information as a form of damage control, means to me that whatever happened in the cockpit was damning to say the least. Unless Air India planes do not have flight data recorders ?? :-)

Edited May 4, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[SeaVisionBurma]

Troll post and reply removed

[spermwhale]

Shocking that pilots would be so amateurish and let two flying bus waitresses take the stick with hundreds of people on the flight. First post is right: I wonder what will happen if I press THIS button.

Holy crap!

[moe666]

and many here complain about Thai airlines

[fatgraeme]

"“due to distraction, the co-pilot touched the auto pilot disconnect button momentarily. But the same was connected back.”"

auto pilot disengage switch requires pulling up and out to disengage, not just hitting a button

I have watched enough of the Air Crash Investigation series on National Geographic channel to know that there are no switches involved in disengaging an autopilot, an accidental movement of the control column will do it by design in all newer aircraft.

[saakura]

Lack of service, amenities, hygeine, noisy, dirty...whatever else you can say to slag off and all of which would be true, Air India does seem have a good safety record and it's only loss of life was 30yrs ago in a terrorist related incident over UK airspace. Most US airlines have a worse record. But surveys and statistics are used in a skewed way to potray them as safer. I am no expert and i form this opinion after reading many reports on the internet today.

[wellred]

Here are some reports of equally silly behaviour (including being drunk)

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-01-08/bottle-to-throttle-a-short-history-of-drunk-pilots

So does that mean we also shouldn't fly American Eagles or Thompson Airwards. Or how about this one where 1 in 5 pilots admit to falling asleep in the cockpit. Or better yet how about an air traffic controller sleeping on the job?

In fact if you look hard enough you will see that Airlines operating in America have a terrible track record when it comes to safety and emergency landings.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-1374355/Pilots-admit-falling-asleep-cockpit.html

"

• Friday April 1 - Southwest Airlines Flight 812 made an emergency landing in Arizona 18 minutes after take off when a five-foot hole ripped through the plane.
• Saturday April 2 - Southwest Airlines cancel 300 flights.
• American Airlines Flight 883 jet forced to make an emergency landing in New York due to decompression in the cabin.
• Sunday April 3 - Southwest Airlines cancel further 300 flights and announce inspections on 79 aircraft.
• Monday April 4 - Southwest Airlines Flight was forced to make an emergency landing at Los Angeles after a burning electrical smell in the cabin. Up to 175 more Southwest flights expected to be cancelled throughout the day.
• American Airlines jet lands with minimal instruments and a smoke-filled cockpit
• Tuesday April 5 - Southwest confirm cracks found in five more planes
• A Boeing 737-700 flight to Denver forced to land again shortly after take off due to a fault in the wing
• Wednesday April 6 - Second air traffic controller found asleep on the job

Just to mix things up here is an Air New Zealand pilot who nodded off during a flight.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21628746

And also a Dutch pilot who was locked out of the cockpit because the co pilot was asleep.

http://news.yahoo.com/dont-alarmed-airline-pilots-falling-asleep-wheel-135145466.html

And for the grande finale here is that one we were all talking about last year... Air France pilot who crashed in the Atlantic killing around 230 on board. He didn't get enough sleep the night before.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2293750/Pilot-Air-France-plane-crashed-killing-228-people-slept-just-ONE-HOUR-flight.html

[bobl]

I'd like to die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather.

Not screaming in terror, like his passengers...

[roamer]

What an hysterical lot you are, surprised some of you ever boarded a flight in the first place. Sometimes it might be better when pilots leave the cockpit, sure the flight attendants on Thai Airways on TG 261 into Surat Thani in 1998 would have been a better choice than the pilot deciding going in for a third attempt at landing on a rainy windswept night with poor visibility, 101 people dead.

And in response to a comment, No the navigator never left the cockpit in the Air India episode, problem with getting desoldered...duh!!

[Oxpilot]

Absolute rubbish to even suggest that BOTH pilots left the cockpit to take a nap. Overcrowding a cockpit by cabin crew does happen, and not just at Air India . I don't believe a word of this.

I tend to agree and why would cabin crew enter the vacant cockpit (or was the navigator still present), even locate the autopilot button and then shut it off. Or was this payback as a sense of being pissed off at sleeping pilots. Too many questions at this point to believe the stupidity of the act. Similarly why suspend the cabin crew? They 'appear' to have got the pilots back in the chair.

Everyone involved, crew wise, should be suspended, until it's 'sorted'! And seems to me that the cabin crew didn't 'locate' the auto-pilot or they wouldn't have turned it off, knowing what it was.. maybe even 'larking', suddenly in charge of a plane they thought was 'flying itself'.. just like the kids of the Russian Captain were allowed to do some years back, when the boy pushing the controls to one side for over 30 seconds automatically disengaged the auto-pilot and no-one realised until too late!!! Sadly everyone on board that flight were killed, so this incident, with clearly similar potential for such tragic consequences turned out fortuitous in the extreme that it didn't result otherwise than it did!!! As for your statement, 'Too many questions to believe the stupidity of the act'?.. sorry but that is ZERO basis for not believing the lengths to which human error AND stupidity can extend (example as per aforementioned)!!! In fact there'd be very few accidents, air, road or anywhere else if it weren't for such stupidity and, basically, the abject failure of too many to just do the normal, sensible, smart thing, or like in this case.. the job you were trained to do, man!!! ('absolute rubbish that both pilots would leave the cockpit to take a nap'? .. obviously Carib is ex or current airline or such.. sticking by colleagues across the sea?.. because regardless of the still to be properly established events of this incident, such things do and have happened with terrifying regularity - we can only hope to truly learn from such incidents - and keep our fingers crossed!!? - in regard to the future!!! Simple, if disturbing, FACT!)

There is no navigator on modern airliners. The A-321 is a two pilot cockpit design. There is a "jumpseat" for observers but it is not normally used except for check-rides. I am not an Airbus pilot, but on Boeing and most all other airline type aircraft there is an autopilot disconnect button on the yoke (control wheel) I would wait for an official report of the incident before believing the story as told. I have seen and heard many stories in my 38 year flying career, but if this turns out to be true it is the winner. As I recall the Russian pilots remained in the cockpit while the kids were at the controls.