The Thai Mirage - I Met A Thai Girl That Was Working In Ferangland.

[Stradavarius37]

Apisit does, so does Korn. So do countless professors at Mahidol where I teach.

Countless professors at Mahidol speak fluent English? That surprises me a bit. In any case to suggest that they are representative sampling of the average Thai or anything more than a relative minority would be ridiculous. To suggest that Abhisit is even beyond that (born in England, student there from 11yo, Etonian, Oxford - if he didn't have better English skills than a great many native speakers, it would be extremely odd - and he does.)

Perhaps you were joking?

Just noticed you mentioned Korn too - just as funny. Also born in England, also educated there from boyhood at the very best schools and a classmate with Abhisit at Oxford.

Most "Native English Speakers" have such unintelligible accents the you can't understand anything said. Don't put much currency in the "Great and Powerful Concept" of the "Native English Speaker.

What has that got to do with my post? Did you even read it properly? (Hint: implicit in it is the acknowledgement that many Native Speakers aren't the best users of English). Or are you now trying to sort of reverse yourself by saying the fact that Abhisit and Korn have arguably better English skills than a great many native speakers, that isn't saying much and isn't all that impressive?

By the way, that's a ridiculous comment - MOST native speakers are unintelligible? To whom? You use the generic "you" which means that you believe that this is so for people in general. However do the native speakers survive? sign language? How does the English speaking world manage to communicate efficiently for so long?

And I'm not familiar with the Great and Powerful Concept" of the "Native English Speaker...

Any response to what I posted that actually refutes it (or acknowledges it as accurate)?

Nope. Don't care enough.

[SteeleJoe]

Apisit does, so does Korn. So do countless professors at Mahidol where I teach.

Countless professors at Mahidol speak fluent English? That surprises me a bit. In any case to suggest that they are representative sampling of the average Thai or anything more than a relative minority would be ridiculous. To suggest that Abhisit is even beyond that (born in England, student there from 11yo, Etonian, Oxford - if he didn't have better English skills than a great many native speakers, it would be extremely odd - and he does.)

Perhaps you were joking?

Just noticed you mentioned Korn too - just as funny. Also born in England, also educated there from boyhood at the very best schools and a classmate with Abhisit at Oxford.

Most "Native English Speakers" have such unintelligible accents the you can't understand anything said. Don't put much currency in the "Great and Powerful Concept" of the "Native English Speaker.

What has that got to do with my post? Did you even read it properly? (Hint: implicit in it is the acknowledgement that many Native Speakers aren't the best users of English). Or are you now trying to sort of reverse yourself by saying the fact that Abhisit and Korn have arguably better English skills than a great many native speakers, that isn't saying much and isn't all that impressive?

By the way, that's a ridiculous comment - MOST native speakers are unintelligible? To whom? You use the generic "you" which means that you believe that this is so for people in general. However do the native speakers survive? sign language? How does the English speaking world manage to communicate efficiently for so long?

And I'm not familiar with the Great and Powerful Concept" of the "Native English Speaker...

Any response to what I posted that actually refutes it (or acknowledges it as accurate)?

Nope. Don't care enough.

Uh huh. You respond twice with a really weak retort but when pressed to actually address what was said to you, you suddenly don't care enough.

OK then!

(Don't worry, that did NOT look like a failure of intellectual integrity. Honest.)

[Stradavarius37]

Apisit does, so does Korn. So do countless professors at Mahidol where I teach.

Countless professors at Mahidol speak fluent English? That surprises me a bit. In any case to suggest that they are representative sampling of the average Thai or anything more than a relative minority would be ridiculous. To suggest that Abhisit is even beyond that (born in England, student there from 11yo, Etonian, Oxford - if he didn't have better English skills than a great many native speakers, it would be extremely odd - and he does.)

Perhaps you were joking?

Just noticed you mentioned Korn too - just as funny. Also born in England, also educated there from boyhood at the very best schools and a classmate with Abhisit at Oxford.

Most "Native English Speakers" have such unintelligible accents the you can't understand anything said. Don't put much currency in the "Great and Powerful Concept" of the "Native English Speaker.

What has that got to do with my post? Did you even read it properly? (Hint: implicit in it is the acknowledgement that many Native Speakers aren't the best users of English). Or are you now trying to sort of reverse yourself by saying the fact that Abhisit and Korn have arguably better English skills than a great many native speakers, that isn't saying much and isn't all that impressive?

By the way, that's a ridiculous comment - MOST native speakers are unintelligible? To whom? You use the generic "you" which means that you believe that this is so for people in general. However do the native speakers survive? sign language? How does the English speaking world manage to communicate efficiently for so long?

And I'm not familiar with the Great and Powerful Concept" of the "Native English Speaker...

Any response to what I posted that actually refutes it (or acknowledges it as accurate)?

Nope. Don't care enough.

Uh huh. You respond twice with a really weak retort but when pressed to actually address what was said to you, you suddenly don't care enough.

OK then!

(Don't worry, that did NOT look like a failure of intellectual integrity. Honest.)

Still don't care

[JLCrab]

I Could Write a Book Rodgers & Hart (1940) Lyrics by Lorenz Hart (excerpt):

Used to hate to go to school
I never cracked a book;
I played the hook
Never answered any mail;
to write I used to think was wasting ink.
It was never my endeavor
to be too clever and smart.
Now I suddenly feel
a longing to write in my heart

... If they asked me, I could write a book

[Munger]

Yes, normal women stay with men for money. It's not just bargirls. Trust me. Just because they don't work in a bar doesn't mean it's free. You'll learn that soon enough.

This is what losers usually say when they try to justify their ex bargirl partners.

[HardenedSoul]

Yes, normal women stay with men for money. It's not just bargirls. Trust me. Just because they don't work in a bar doesn't mean it's free. You'll learn that soon enough.

The age old lament of the love loser.

[JLCrab]

Yes, normal women stay with men for money. It's not just bargirls. Trust me. Just because they don't work in a bar doesn't mean it's free. You'll learn that soon enough.

The age old lament of the love loser.

As a fairly regular patron of the numerous clubs in and around the more farang-oriented parts of Bangkok ...

Well that explains a lot (back from the ATM I am, I am)

[HardenedSoul]

Yes, normal women stay with men for money. It's not just bargirls. Trust me. Just because they don't work in a bar doesn't mean it's free. You'll learn that soon enough.

The age old lament of the love loser.

As a fairly regular patron of the numerous clubs in and around the more farang-oriented parts of Bangkok ...

Well that explains a lot (back from the ATM I am, I am)

I see. Not only are you a wheezy old stalker with a penchant for trawling through members' old posts, you genuinely think that there couldn't be any reason for going to clubs other than to seek out female company.

What a jaded little world you must live in.

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[JLCrab]

Yes, normal women stay with men for money. It's not just bargirls. Trust me. Just because they don't work in a bar doesn't mean it's free. You'll learn that soon enough.

The age old lament of the love loser.

As a fairly regular patron of the numerous clubs in and around the more farang-oriented parts of Bangkok ...

Well that explains a lot (back from the ATM I am, I am)

I see. Not only are you a wheezy old stalker with a penchant for trawling through members' old posts, you genuinely think that there couldn't be any reason for going to clubs other than to seek out female company.

What a jaded little world you must live in.

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Thank you ... and I'm lovin' it.

BTW your 'lament of the love loser' made me think of this line from Citizen Kane

You're right, I did lose a million dollars last year. I expect to lose a

million dollars this year. I expect to lose a million dollars next year.

You know, Mr. Thatcher, at the rate of a million dollars a year, I'll have to close this place in...

60 years.

Edited May 6, 2013 by JLCrab

[IMA_FARANG]

Of course.

Not to be rude but there are many Thailands, each one as "real" as the other one.

The Thailand that's real to the "boozer and loser" brigade in Pattaya , the "perpetual tourist" in Phuket or Koh Samui making back-to-back visa runs, or the retired expat living on a pension and eating mostly Thai food in Thai street stands are all different worlds, all different "real" Thailands.

And the "realities" of Thailand these different people experience are, in fact, illusions they generate themselves from their own experiences each day.

For Thais also the "real" Thailand experienced by someone living in Bangkok and a farmer in an Issan up-country village are also widely different.

Not to mention the Thai Tuk Tuk driver working in Bangkok.

But all these Thailand realties, no matter how different they seem, are only each one a small illusionary part of the combined whole of the "real" Thailand.

After over 30 years in Thailand (not continuously, but in latterly dozens of visits or extended stays) there are still "Thailands" I don't know.

And probably always will be.

P.S. As for me I'm retired, nominally living in Thailand, but actually currently living and writing this in a small budget hotel in Vung Tau, Vietnam. Different "realities" also.

Edited May 6, 2013 by IMA_FARANG

[JLCrab]

That's OK, IMF. I live in a jaded word -- for a new experience, maybe you should try it sometime.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Yes, normal women stay with men for money. It's not just bargirls. Trust me. Just because they don't work in a bar doesn't mean it's free. You'll learn that soon enough.

The age old lament of the love loser.

As a fairly regular patron of the numerous clubs in and around the more farang-oriented parts of Bangkok ...

Well that explains a lot (back from the ATM I am, I am)

I see. Not only are you a wheezy old stalker with a penchant for trawling through members' old posts, you genuinely think that there couldn't be any reason for going to clubs other than to seek out female company.

What a jaded little world you must live in.

Why, as a man, would you go to a club in Thailand, if not looking for sex?

[canman]

I didn't, That is a quote by will durant. I thought it might come across like that, oops! Banzai, I haven't worked it out, I have very 2 very different perspectives on it, theres a million other perspectives nothing like mine, but this one is mine.

Yes hanging out with working girls in beer bars and gogo's is very different to hanging out with "normal" middle class people, not really all that much of a revelation is it? If you spent a few weeks partying hard in Vegas, gambling, mongering and going to strip clubs, would it really be that much of a revelation to find out that people in Kansas behave differently? Also, yes, Thais prefer to speak Thai. If they speak fluent english but do not want to converse with you in english then I think it is one of 2 reasons. Either they don't like you or they feel that you have been in Thailand long enough to learn the language and should do so.

[JLCrab]

Yes, normal women stay with men for money. It's not just bargirls. Trust me. Just because they don't work in a bar doesn't mean it's free. You'll learn that soon enough.

The age old lament of the love loser.

As a fairly regular patron of the numerous clubs in and around the more farang-oriented parts of Bangkok ...

Well that explains a lot (back from the ATM I am, I am)

I see. Not only are you a wheezy old stalker with a penchant for trawling through members' old posts, you genuinely think that there couldn't be any reason for going to clubs other than to seek out female company.

What a jaded little world you must live in.

Why, as a man, would you go to a club in Thailand, if not looking for sex?

Drugs.

[Kitsune]

Wow

Reading long texts on white background is very straining for eyes.

You are either trying to sell eye wear or are very bored.

[Thakkar]

Of course.

Not to be rude but there are many Thailands, each one as "real" as the other one.

The Thailand that's real to the "boozer and loser" brigade in Pattaya , the "perpetual tourist" in Phuket or Koh Samui making back-to-back visa runs, or the retired expat living on a pension and eating mostly Thai food in Thai street stands are all different worlds, all different "real" Thailands.

And the "realities" of Thailand these different people experience are, in fact, illusions they generate themselves from their own experiences each day.

For Thais also the "real" Thailand experienced by someone living in Bangkok and a farmer in an Issan up-country village are also widely different.

Not to mention the Thai Tuk Tuk driver working in Bangkok.

But all these Thailand realties, no matter how different they seem, are only each one a small illusionary part of the combined whole of the "real" Thailand.

After over 30 years in Thailand (not continuously, but in latterly dozens of visits or extended stays) there are still "Thailands" I don't know.

And probably always will be.

-snip-.

If everything is real, nothing is real. We all exist as illusory characters in the bizarre dream of a somnambulant creature in a parallel universe, our existence, such as it is, lasting mere nanoseconds.

Living in a mirage would be an upgrade.

T

[bonobo]

We drive all around bangkok suburbs going to different places at night and I haven't seen any bargirls or scrupulous looking massage parlours anywhere.

So you are suggesting the "entertainment industry" has only been put in place in Thailand to cater to farangs/tourists only and it doesnt exist outside this areas ?...my my...one could suggest the "Local entertainment" industry catering to Thai's is far bigger...one has to only drive down a certain road in BKK and see the numerous up market "entertainment establishments"..some of which were/are owned by Thai politians..these places most certainly were not established for the tourist market...

.....

Me thinks its you seeing a mirage..

+1

I live in the "suburbs" as well, and I work all the way out of town. The "establishments" pave the road I take to work. The difference is that they are not all clumped together as in Soi Cowboy with western names that leave no doubt to an English speaker just what they offer.

Regardless, they all offer the same product. I would be willing to bet that the OP passes many of them and just doesn't realize what they are.

[Kilgore Trout]

where the f..ks Falangland. only uneducated Thai monkeys use that frase.

Just didn't want to put my particular country to keep the post simple, didn't mean to offend. "ferangland" is the term used to describe the genaral areas that most people from white european descent live. It's not a perfect word but it serves it's purpose of well. I certainly don't find it offensive, some do and thats understandable also.

You don't approve my use of the term "ferangland" yet you can use the term "thai monkey" to describe a thai person of a less fortunate socio-economic class than your own? hmm.. one seems to have conflicting racial and moral standards it seems.

How about using 'western countries' in preference to an ignorant racist term.

Because not everyone from a western country is farang.

So if it was a westerner from Asian origins the situation would be different?

You really are, as Ali G. would say.....a racialist, aren't you?

[HardenedSoul]

Yes, normal women stay with men for money. It's not just bargirls. Trust me. Just because they don't work in a bar doesn't mean it's free. You'll learn that soon enough.

The age old lament of the love loser.

As a fairly regular patron of the numerous clubs in and around the more farang-oriented parts of Bangkok ...

Well that explains a lot (back from the ATM I am, I am)

I see. Not only are you a wheezy old stalker with a penchant for trawling through members' old posts, you genuinely think that there couldn't be any reason for going to clubs other than to seek out female company.

What a jaded little world you must live in.

Why, as a man, would you go to a club in Thailand, if not looking for sex?

You and your wingman, JLCrabby, conjure up memories of those two decrepit, old fossils from the Muppet Show, Statler and Waldorf - completely out of touch with the world around you.

After God knows how many years on planet Earth, your ignorance is nothing short of breath-taking.

I go to a select few clubs in Thailand for the specific music I love, socializing with friends (remember those?) and dancing.

[SteeleJoe]

Holy smokes, did someone really ask why a man would go to a club other than to look for sex?! (The ThaiVisa app doesn't show who made the comment).

It was years ago but there was a time in my life where even when I wasn't DJing or managing a club, I'd be in one almost every night; and while the hope and possibility of sex was always an integral element of the whole scene, it was never the only reason to be in one for me and many others. It was about music, friends (new and old) and the possibility of SOMETHING happening.

I hope at least, the poster in question weren't restricting that to commercial sex...

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I go to a select few clubs in Thailand for the specific music I love, socializing with friends (remember those?) and dancing.

I thought you claimed to be 45, don't you think that is a little old for a disco shuffle?

Edited May 7, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[JLCrab]

Yes, normal women stay with men for money. It's not just bargirls. Trust me. Just because they don't work in a bar doesn't mean it's free. You'll learn that soon enough.

The age old lament of the love loser.

As a fairly regular patron of the numerous clubs in and around the more farang-oriented parts of Bangkok ...

Well that explains a lot (back from the ATM I am, I am)

I see. Not only are you a wheezy old stalker with a penchant for trawling through members' old posts, you genuinely think that there couldn't be any reason for going to clubs other than to seek out female company.

What a jaded little world you must live in.

Why, as a man, would you go to a club in Thailand, if not looking for sex?

You and your wingman, JLCrabby, conjure up memories of those two decrepit, old fossils from the Muppet Show, Statler and Waldorf - completely out of touch with the world around you.

After God knows how many years on planet Earth, your ignorance is nothing short of breath-taking.

I go to a select few clubs in Thailand for the specific music I love, socializing with friends (remember those?) and dancing.

I picture the guy with foam at the corners of his mouth as he writes this stuff.

[HardenedSoul]

I go to a select few clubs in Thailand for the specific music I love, socializing with friends (remember those?) and dancing.

I thought you claimed to be 45, don't you think that is a little old for a disco shuffle?

Seriously??!!

Do you realise just how stupid you're making yourself look?

[JLCrab]

I go to a select few clubs in Thailand for the specific music I love, socializing with friends (remember those?) and dancing.

I thought you claimed to be 45, don't you think that is a little old for a disco shuffle?

Seriously??!!

Do you realise just how stupid you're making yourself look?

Yes... but it's fun to watch guys like you blow a gasket.

Edited May 7, 2013 by JLCrab

[rayongchelsea]

It's true. Men are prone to flights of fancy. It's not always bad, as instinct has its own intelligence. But such flights of fancy are also often the source of future tragedies- financial, emotional and otherwise. How things turn out depends on a combination of luck, one's disposition and one's ability to learn and change. It's more interesting to live by the seat of your pants. The tragedy is failing to learn from experience and repeating one's mistakes.

T

Quality.

Kudos.

This could sum my life up here over the 30+ years..

You hope people will not repeat your mistakes..mistakes can have long term impacts even if you have learnt from them..I just don't think you can "preach" to people, people have to make the mistakes as the mirage can be very strong..Thailand has created a very powerful brand.

It just amazes me that people come here and are experts within months!!

I am not in love with the country like I was, absolutely not, the more you understand the more you realize why this is still a third world country with third world attitudes. I was in the 1% of the highest tax payers,I have contributed an enormous amount to taxes, schools, charities etc.. I play by the rules, I am extremely polite..one needs to learn that even though this is not our country we have wives and children who are from here and born here for that very reason we need to learn from our experiences and the most important is to understand you have rights and not just to roll over..otherwise you just re- enforce this " I am just a farang" attitude!..does my head in..that is the main tragedy..

[HardenedSoul]

I picture the guy with foam at the corners of his mouth as he writes this stuff.

Yeah sure, Waldorf.

[JLCrab]

I picture the guy with foam at the corners of his mouth as he writes this stuff.

Yeah sure, Waldorf.

OK, then why are you so bellicose?

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I go to a select few clubs in Thailand for the specific music I love, socializing with friends (remember those?) and dancing.

I thought you claimed to be 45, don't you think that is a little old for a disco shuffle?

Seriously??!!

Do you realise just how stupid you're making yourself look?

I guessing not as stupid as you look as an old dude on a club dance floor.

[SteeleJoe]

I guessing not as stupid as you look as an old dude on a club dance floor.

I have to admit: that was kind of funny. (As a 50 year old who loves to dance but probably wouldn't dare do it now).

I'd better butt out now...

Edited May 7, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[HardenedSoul]

You've obviously conjured up an image of a pot-bellied, balding, white bloke in chinos and dock shoes doing the birdie song dance.

You couldn't be further from the truth