Mum Of U K Crash Victim Joins Campaign About The Risks Of Travelling In Thailand

[DRONGOH]

Dangerous to travel in Thai?

NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

Deadly.

Thai is in 6th place with 30000 dead a year.

Great achievement.

Look at this site: http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/road-traffic-accidents/by-country/

[Somtamnication]

God Bless her. Wish I could give her a hug over her loss. But, she is pissing against the wind here.

[venturalaw]

Foreign persons or entities suing in Thailand need not be physically present in the country during the entire course of the suit

WRONG!!!! ...Tell that to all the Rape victims that are MADE to return back to Thailand to GIVE EVIDENCE ...or the case is dismissed due to lack of evidence

Think: What possible evidence would the mother of the victim be able to provide? Unless she was present, none. On the other hand, a victim of rape must testify as the victim had to be present for the crime to have occurred.

[hookedondhamma]

Google "bus crash USA". You can die anywhere, third world or first world.

Agreed. Only one little thing - this happened in Thailand and doesn't involve the US, anywhere else, or Google.

[hookedondhamma]

its a requirement for all passenger carriers in the uk to have seatbelts ,has been for a couple of years,,

And how many people ignore them? I wouldn't use seat-belts on a bus.

Those who don't think about the future consequences of what could happen resulting from a collision.

yes, we all take a risk when we enter a vehicle, but it doesn't mean we should throw caution to the wind. If it has seatbelts, it's probably a good idea to use them. If not then it is up to the passenger..

[Mr Red]

I have an 18 year old son about to take his first un-parented foreign trip, so I feel for her loss. Children should never die before their parents.

The slick tyres - well, if the bus had recently passed an inspection then someone should pay for that obvious error.

Regarding the lack of seat belts in the bus. Does any passenger bus anywhere in the world have seat belts?

Do the smaller Toyota buses in Thailand have passenger seat belts? I know full sizes buses don't.

Anyway - good luck to her in her uphill challenge. I doubt suing a company now out of business is going to be easy - or fruitful.

On my last trip to Mae Sai, the Green Coach had seat belts. I wore mine, but suspect I was the only one in the bus who did.

I believe they're compulsory in Australia, but not sure which buses must use them. Possibly the intercity lines.

Returned couple months ago from tour to Aus & NZ -- seatbelt wearing in the buses was compulsory and they were available, but was enforced sporadically by the tour company. Same in NZ.

[Card]

unfortunely this is just another sad case to lose a son at 19yrs old with his life in front of him i wouldnt even think i could cope.what she is trying to do i'am afraid she would be better off highlighting what happens here in thailand in the uk.i saw an interveiw with her on tel.where she said if she can change things as to help thai people be aware then she will have achieved something sadly this will not happen.as for the civil lawsuit i hope she goes ahead.

I agree, but sadly, going ahead with a lawsuit is likely to cost a lot of money and finally end with frustration and failure. The money might be better spent on some charity in the name of her son rather than on lawyer's fees.

[Card]

its a requirement for all passenger carriers in the uk to have seatbelts ,has been for a couple of years,,

And how many people ignore them? I wouldn't use seat-belts on a bus.

Those who don't think about the future consequences of what could happen resulting from a collision.

yes, we all take a risk when we enter a vehicle, but it doesn't mean we should throw caution to the wind. If it has seatbelts, it's probably a good idea to use them. If not then it is up to the passenger..

As a regular bus traveller in Thailand, I make a note every time that no Thais use available seat belts, and neither do farangs (except me). At least farangs have the advantage of safety education in most aspects of life when they are growing up and usually take heed in their home countries but not in Thailand, which represents freedom and a lack of regulation that they like so much. Unfortunately, sometimes it bites them.

[starkey_rich]

Apparently there was no response to this letter

.

[Genericnic]

Apparently there was no response to this letter

.Felix-Cooper-Coronersstatement02.JPGFelix Cooper - coroners-statement02.JPG

I would have been more surprised if there had been a response.

David

[Foggy Bottom]

I have an 18 year old son about to take his first un-parented foreign trip, so I feel for her loss. Children should never die before their parents.

The slick tyres - well, if the bus had recently passed an inspection then someone should pay for that obvious error.

Regarding the lack of seat belts in the bus. Does any passenger bus anywhere in the world have seat belts?

Do the smaller Toyota buses in Thailand have passenger seat belts? I know full sizes buses don't.

Anyway - good luck to her in her uphill challenge. I doubt suing a company now out of business is going to be easy - or fruitful.

You're wrong there Mike - Nakhonchai Air is one of the companies running long distance buses out of Chiang Mai and all their buses have seat belts on every seat. They also carry a relief driver on each bus and the two swap over every 4 hours on the longer journeys (e.g. Chiang Mai - Nakhon Ratchasima).

[LisuLover]

Zeebrugge ferry disaster comes to mind. Orange coloured Townsend Thoreson ferries disappeared overnight and were replaced with blue P&O ferries, the parent company. Sweeping s**t under the carpet is a human traight, not solely Thai.

[sirchai]

The young man, the sole fatality in that crash while many other passengers were injured, was an adept musician who taught music for free to Thai children living in the North.

I feel very sad for all people who die here, hope her son will rest in peace. Hope somebody else had replaced him already. Poor Thai children too.

[Card]

I have an 18 year old son about to take his first un-parented foreign trip, so I feel for her loss. Children should never die before their parents.

The slick tyres - well, if the bus had recently passed an inspection then someone should pay for that obvious error.

Regarding the lack of seat belts in the bus. Does any passenger bus anywhere in the world have seat belts?

Do the smaller Toyota buses in Thailand have passenger seat belts? I know full sizes buses don't.

Anyway - good luck to her in her uphill challenge. I doubt suing a company now out of business is going to be easy - or fruitful.

You're wrong there Mike - Nakhonchai Air is one of the companies running long distance buses out of Chiang Mai and all their buses have seat belts on every seat. They also carry a relief driver on each bus and the two swap over every 4 hours on the longer journeys (e.g. Chiang Mai - Nakhon Ratchasima).

All modern buses, at least long-distance ones, in Thailand have to be fitted with seat belts, as do taxis and minibuses, incl in the back seats. All the 666 buses from BKK to CM have them. However, some private operators and taxis fix them down or hide them for some unknown reason, but I make sure I pull them out whatever damage results.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Card

[lookingeast]

Quoting the sad Mum : "She said she planned to meet with the Land Transportation Division and its local office in Ranong to query why the bus, which had recently passed an inspection, had worn-out tyres without tread on them." Obviously, i don't know the facts, but years ago in the UK motor-trade it was not unknown for dealers to fit good tyres to pass the MOT, and then swap them for half-worn ones or worse after the MOT cert was obtained. The explanation could be as simple and as bad as that.

[apetley]

Zeebrugge ferry disaster comes to mind. Orange coloured Townsend Thoreson ferries disappeared overnight and were replaced with blue P&O ferries, the parent company. Sweeping s**t under the carpet is a human traight, not solely Thai.

That disaster was over 26 years ago and an inquest returned a verdict of unlawful killing. A subsequent court case subsequently collapsed but thankfully established what is now accepted as corporate manslaughter.

Lessons were learned and procedures put in place to prevent such an occurance happening again.

Maybe that will happen in Thailand after the next fatal bus crash eh?

[rbrooks]

As a foreigner you can't sue them.

Nonsense.

Thai natural and juridical persons, as well as those domiciled in Thailand can bring suits against any defendant. Non-nationals and non-domiciled persons and entities can sue defendants domiciled in Thailand. Foreign persons or entities suing in Thailand need not be physically present in the country during the entire course of the suit. A lawyer in Thailand may file suit on the foreigner's behalf, and the foreign litigant may reserve personal appearance only when required by the court to give testimony against the contending party. Jurisdiction is determined by law alone. Venue may be waived, or may be subject to the agreement of parties.

The petitioning party is responsible for requesting the court to issue the summons against the respondent. A separate petition must be filed to request the court to serve the complaint and summons to the defendant. A reasonable amount of time is allowed for the service. If the defendant is not domiciled in Thailand, service of summons must be done through diplomatic channels. Foreign judgments are not enforceable in Thailand. A separate suit needs to be filed, and the foreign judgment is presented as evidence in the new case. In such cases, the court will necessarily examine whether the foreign court which decided the case had jurisdiction and whether the judgment was final.

Siam-Legal

Sure you can sue as a farang they will be glad to take your money in Thailand in all venues but the cost and the outcome is usually the same, dismissal and god forbid you win the compensation is so minimal that it is usually way less than the expenses you had to incur for lawyer and court fees. What a joke.

[rbrooks]

Google "bus crash USA". You can die anywhere, third world or first world.

Agreed. Only one little thing - this happened in Thailand and doesn't involve the US, anywhere else, or Google.

Here we go with America again. We are talking about safety requirements and ability to sue companies that allow their vehicles to operate with obvious unsafe conditions like bald tires. You do not stand a chance winning in Thailand and most travel companies have no safety requirements and if so they are rarely enforced. In America there are plenty of safety requirements and the police will even stop a private or commercial rig to fine and prevent them from traveling our highways. Try to get the police to do anything proper in Thailand. And of course the law in America if a fatality occurred as a result of faulty equipment on a licensed vehicle be it boat, bus, limo, taxi, elephant etc. You as a foreigner, alien, Thai, can sue the hell out of the company and force the guilty party to serve time, pay huge amounts of compensation and the company will never be able to operate again. Yes you can be in a bus crash in the USA but this UK mom would not have to launch a huge campaign for safety, warn future tourists and worry about the outcome of suing the party responsible in America. Big difference in a normal world where people care about safety and the lives of others including foreigners.

[Card]

If I was in the same situation as this mother and did not get a response from my solicitor's letters and my own letters to the relevant authorities, I would come to Thailand, get myself a good reporter and/or a solicitor with balls and go occupy his office. I would inform the international news media and cause such a (peaceful) stink that the international media would report it. If they didn't I would go on hunger strike until the Thai authorities proved they had done something substantial in the case, incl. the Prime Minister if necessary. I would be so incensed at the unnecessary loss of my son and the lack of any intent to solve the crime that I would go on hunger strike in the municipal offices if necessary. It wouldn't matter if I wasn't allowed back in Thailand as long as the news media reported it for however long it would take to get something done or I had embarrassed the sh*t out of the authorities, incl. TOT.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Card

[Emdog]

Bless her and her uphill (or up cliff is more like it) battle. "To dream the impossible dream..."

"called on Britons to exercise caution when travelling in Thailand" which could mean find a hotel within walking distance of arrival port, go to it and stay there until it is time to leave. Walking is dangerous too... maybe stay at airport hotel, use room sevice.

[Khun Robert]

You are talking about the safety requirements in your home country. PLEASE REMEMBER YOU ARE IN THAILAND.

I feel sorry for the loss of her son, but if you want to go on holiday or live in Thailand you have to know the rules and regulations of Thailand.

3 weeks ago I picked up 2 British after a road accident with their rented motor bike.

I asked the driver if he had an English Driving License to drive a motorbike, his answer:

"No, I even never sit on a moped at home".

Tourists, the think they are in heaven and forget every rule and regulation, even the simple ones they have at home.

But hey, lets blame the Thais for the stupidity of the Tourists.

[bristolgeoff]

somehow whatever you chose to do in asia they is a risk and millions do it every year.good luck in trying to change the system.the thais have tried to do something for years when songkran is on and the deaths increase

[apetley]

You are talking about the safety requirements in your home country. PLEASE REMEMBER YOU ARE IN THAILAND.

I feel sorry for the loss of her son, but if you want to go on holiday or live in Thailand you have to know the rules and regulations of Thailand.

3 weeks ago I picked up 2 British after a road accident with their rented motor bike.

I asked the driver if he had an English Driving License to drive a motorbike, his answer:

"No, I even never sit on a moped at home".

Tourists, the think they are in heaven and forget every rule and regulation, even the simple ones they have at home.

But hey, lets blame the Thais for the stupidity of the Tourists.

There is a major difference between being unlicensed and renting a motorbike and buying a ticket on what is a scheduled and spposedly regulated bus service.

[techboy]

Foreign persons or entities suing in Thailand need not be physically present in the country during the entire course of the suit

WRONG!!!! ...Tell that to all the Rape victims that are MADE to return back to Thailand to GIVE EVIDENCE ...or the case is dismissed due to lack of evidence

I can believe what you say about a rape crime. The woman herself is evidence. But outside of that I do not believe that you know what you are talking about.

[edwinchester]

You are talking about the safety requirements in your home country. PLEASE REMEMBER YOU ARE IN THAILAND.

I feel sorry for the loss of her son, but if you want to go on holiday or live in Thailand you have to know the rules and regulations of Thailand.

3 weeks ago I picked up 2 British after a road accident with their rented motor bike.

I asked the driver if he had an English Driving License to drive a motorbike, his answer:

"No, I even never sit on a moped at home".

Tourists, the think they are in heaven and forget every rule and regulation, even the simple ones they have at home.

But hey, lets blame the Thais for the stupidity of the Tourists.

So are you saying the guy who died in the bus crash was stupid for buying a ride on a bus? If not why make a comparison with an unlicensed idiot renting a scooter.

[atyclb]

I have an 18 year old son about to take his first un-parented foreign trip, so I feel for her loss. Children should never die before their parents.

The slick tyres - well, if the bus had recently passed an inspection then someone should pay for that obvious error.

Regarding the lack of seat belts in the bus. Does any passenger bus anywhere in the world have seat belts?

Do the smaller Toyota buses in Thailand have passenger seat belts? I know full sizes buses don't.

Anyway - good luck to her in her uphill challenge. I doubt suing a company now out of business is going to be easy - or fruitful.

Some of the big buses actually do. I was astounded also. Buckled up with Thai lady next to me and the look on her face when I did was like I was from another planet, or better said, vice a versa LOL

[firestar]

Locals save money everywhere. Profit is rule no. 1. Safety means nothing to them. As a foreigner you can't sue them. The usual game: closing company, story over, open new company under new name. As a foreigner you have no chance to get anything from them. Remember: This isn't UK!

Why "as a foreigner" "as a foreigner" you think poor local victims of bus accidents get anything worthwhile?

I have a friend who's wife died giving birth, proven negligence, he was offered 30k compensation take it or leave it. but THANKS to him being a foreigner and making some noise he was compensated a few million in the end.

Despite what people think locals often get the (very) short end of the stick unless they are HiSO or connected. It's not about being a foreigner, it's about status.

Edited May 6, 2013 by firestar

[Munger]

Google "bus crash USA". You can die anywhere, third world or first world.

So its the same as the USA, is it ?

[Keesters]

This topic relates to safety. Safety is something Thailand seems to have little regard for. Locking of fire exits; blocking of fire equipment; overcrowding in shopping malls; sales of dangerous fireworks to very young children; discos built with flammable materials; badly constructed scaffolding; failure to use seat belts; failure to wear safety helmets; vehicles failing to stop for pedestrians on a crossing; talking, without hands-free device, on the mobile whilst driving car or riding motorbike; overloaded pickup trucks; passenger hanging out the back of baht buses; Rabid and dangerous dogs allowed to roam public streets; etc. etc. And each of these examples are not few in number, they are huge. Safety helmets for instance. At any given time in Pattaya I'd estimate only a 70% observance of the rule with children as passengers at as little as 1%. Failing to stop for a pedestrian on a crossing 99%. People know the rules but take little notice of them. Enforcement of the rules is so infrequent it has no effect. The penalties are so ridiculously small people are prepared to pay them over and over again.

My condolences to the mother of the young European man who was the victim of this senseless lack of regard for safety. But Thais too are victims of the same lack of safety yet they don't seem to want to do anything about it.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Keesters

[Card]

This topic relates to safety. Safety is something Thailand seems to have little regard for. Locking of fire exits; blocking of fire equipment; overcrowding in shopping malls; sales of dangerous fireworks to very young children; discos built with flammable materials; badly constructed scaffolding; failure to use seat belts; failure to wear safety helmets; vehicles failing to stop for pedestrians on a crossing; talking, without hands-free device, on the mobile whilst driving car or riding motorbike; overloaded pickup trucks; passenger hanging out the back of baht buses; Rabid and dangerous dogs allowed to roam public streets; etc. etc. And each of these examples are not few in number, they are huge. Safety helmets for instance. At any given time in Pattaya I'd estimate only a 70% observance of the rule with children as passengers at as little as 1%. Failing to stop for a pedestrian on a crossing 99%. People know the rules but take little notice of them. Enforcement of the rules is so infrequent it has no effect. The penalties are so ridiculously small people are prepared to pay them over and over again.

My condolences to the mother of the young European man who was the victim of this senseless lack of regard for safety. But Thais too are victims of the same lack of safety yet they don't seem to want to do anything about it.

It's not about caring about safety, it's a disregard for human life that is the core of the matter. If Thais don't want to do anything about safety (or corruption) then they aren't victims are they? They are at worst perpetrators and at best complicit. For example, if a Thai motorcycle rider dies of head injuries because he didn't wear a helmet, is he any less guilty of causing his own death just because a careless driver cut in front of him?