Poll: Foreigners In Thailand: When You're Here, Do You Consider Yourself A "guest" Of Thailand?

[SteeleJoe]

Before I mentioned that to me, when foreigners in Thailand use the word guest to describe themselves, especially in the context of the power of the authorities over our continued PERMISSION to STAY here (a serious issue for many of us) the word suggests a TOADY attitude of submission to such authorities. While I will do the virtual fake kowtow at immigration if I think it will help me like any sensible self preserving expat, that's an entirely different thing than INTERNALIZING that attitude. I see no point in doing that, and to me the guest thing usage is a symptom of that kind of internalization.

OK.

Me? I don't spend any time at all worrying about - or even considering - such things as to what is the correct word to describe my status or even the fact that to stay I have to submit to the authorities (which I'm only confronted with in any tangible way, once a year for a very small of a day) to the degree that I do (adhering to the largely unreasonable laws): I live here. And while I hate to reignite the really lame argument about whether anyone should call it such or not, it's my home (don't care if people have a different definition) so, no - I'm not a guest.

But, while I understand your argument, what possible difference does it ultimately make that I don't call myself that?

Frankly, I don't feel as separate from this place as many seem to and in my daily life I am not confronted very often with the gulf between myself and the Thais - language plays a huge role in that, as does lifestyle - and when I am, after over 20 years I'm pretty used to it. So...whatever. I don't think of myself as a guest but I don't care at all if anyone else thinks I am...

[Jingo]

If I buy property in a country, I'm not a guest, I'm a resident. So no. That said, I would consider myself an IMMIGRANT. That word elicits much different reactions usually all positive. "Foreign guests" elicits negative thoughts. Immigrant elicits positive. I'd really say guest would only apply to people who stay a few days in hotels. If you have work and an apartment you're an immigrant/resident/etc. not a guest.

That said, all foreigners should respect the customs and learn the language if they have the brain capacity to do so, if every country liberalizes and doesn't enforce it's culture, there won't be any culture at all. That's the hypocrisy of multiculturalists, they are actually destroying all culture and trying to make one global materialist culture (fast food, designer clothes, everyone using english, etc.) replacing it.

[SteeleJoe]

My friend put this nicely once: "Foreigners in Thailand are tolerated, not welcomed"

Sometimes it really feels like that, when you spend more than few months in Thailand...

Allow me to correct your post for you:

"Sometimes I really feel like that, when I spend more than few months in Thailand..."

[Jingthing]

I wasn't suggesting that anyone should care about this question. That's a feeling kind of thing. Either you feel something or you don't. There is no right or wrong about that.

[SteeleJoe]

If you behave like a guest (ie. you are respectful, do efforts to speak the language and keep a rather low profile), which I don't consider annoying or problematic whatsoever, life happens to be pretty good and easy-going here. I'm treated like a guest most of the time, locals systematically forgive my ongoing "mistakes" and motivate me in avoiding making the same mistake twice. The thai folks I have contact with totally understand that I'm a foreigner and that I grew up in a different setting. In short: it's great being a guest and it even offers certain privileges (think about that).

Truth.

I get to be a hypocrite in that I consider this my home and made an effort from the very start to adapt to language and cultural differences (not to necessarily conform to the latter - but to be aware of them and to the extent that I was willing or able to, respect, observe and adjust to them) - but even after all this time, I get a pass as a Farang when I don't strictly adhere to Thai ways and I consciously take advantage of that on occasion. (My wife - who sometimes cringes at my occasional unwillingness to bend - even at times conspires with me to use it to our mutual advantage in small but useful ways: eg getting a timely response from repairmen etc)

[SteeleJoe]

I wasn't suggesting that anyone should care about this question. That's a feeling kind of thing. Either you feel something or you don't. There is no right or wrong about that.

I know.

I hope you don't mind that I responded to a post to me with an explanation of my feelings.

[Tatsujin]

Wow, I'm surprised how many voted "no" . . . obviously not been living here long lol

We are all "guests" here, even those married, with children etc etc. Regardless of what we contribute, we are not wanted here. Simple as that. The only people they want to come to Thailand are tourists who spend lots of money then f^*k off home again.

[Tatsujin]

My wife said of course I am not a guest, married a Thai, live here. Part of the family!

Must be one of her good days!

So if you are "part of the family" now, I would presume then that you don't have to engage in visa runs, reporting, or any of the other things that foreigners here have to do?

If you do do any of those things, you are here on sufferance, nothing more, and you can be kicked out at any time.

[Businessman]

In my mind there are two kinds of guests: welcome and unwelcome.

Welcome guests are embraced and made to feel part of the group and encouraged to stay.

Unwelcome guests are ignored, excluded, tolerated out of politeness and encouraged to leave.

I feel like an unwelcome guest.

sent from my mobile

[rosst]

Yes, I consider myself a guest. There are some things I like and some I do not. But I love Thailand and Thai people. There are a number of visitors to Thailand who behave badly and so many Thai do not like Farang but the vast majority are happy to have us and our money.

I treat Thailand, her people and culture with respect and I feel that is reciprocated in Isaan where I spend most of my time in Thailand.

[SteeleJoe]

So if you are "part of the family" now, I would presume then that you don't have to engage in visa runs, reporting, or any of the other things that foreigners here have to do?

If you do do any of those things, you are here on sufferance, nothing more, and you can be kicked out at any time.

Hmmm...

Being a foreigner.

Being part of someone's family here.

Being subject to arguably unreasonable immigration laws.

None of these is exclusive of another.

But carry on with your agenda and reveling in your bitter cynicism! I'm sure it works for you.

[Jingthing]

This guest thing is somewhat LOADED and many different people react to the word in different ways when used (or not used) in reference to foreigners in Thailand.

As I've said for me it's use rubs me the wrong way (the point about internalizing a TOADY attitude towards Thai power over us to stay or go).

But the flip side of that is very real and we see it all the time on the forum. Countless times people have said things like: This is Thailand. We are all guests in Thailand. If you don't like it, GO HOME. (Heck: it's a bloody meme almost.)

In others words, as I read such sentiments, if you DO NOT consider yourself a "guest" you are not being RESPECTFUL enough to Thailand and also as "guests" we supposedly have no right to opinions or criticisms about life in Thailand. Of course I reject that.

But just adding this to further support the idea that the guest word here is LOADED and it cuts both ways.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Jingthing

[SteeleJoe]

In my mind there are two kinds of guests: welcome and unwelcome.

Welcome guests are embraced and made to feel part of the group and encouraged to stay.

Unwelcome guests are ignored, excluded, tolerated out of politeness and encouraged to leave.

I feel like an unwelcome guest.

sent from my mobile

What the...?! Logic? How very odd.

I don't share your feelings and would even question (in my mind, not trying to debate something that can't be proven) whether you have a genuine basis for them (rather than a perceived one), but that is an eminently sensible response to the semantic argument here.

[DonaldBattles]

When you are invited to the inside of a Thai home and seated at a regular table for a good dinner without paying or bringing anything with you you might be considered a guest in Thailand. How many times has this happened to you?

[Lung666]

I have no problems being a guest. And visa-runs aren't the end of the world. In fact, they're fun. And if you wanna live here and are not retired (or working) and don't wanna do visa runs, then do what Thais would do in such a scenario (lesson nr 1: do what the locals do): Find the right person at the right price.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Lung666

[SteeleJoe]

This guest thing is somewhat LOADED and many different people react to the word in different ways when used (or not used) in reference to foreigners in Thailand.

As I've said for me it's use rubs me the wrong way (the point about internalizing a TOADY attitude towards Thai power over us to stay or go).

But the flip side of that is very real and we see it all the time on the forum. Many many times people have said thing like: This is Thailand. We are all guests in Thailand. If you don't like it, GO HOME.

In others words, as I read such sentiments, if you DO NOT consider yourself a "guest" you are not being RESPECTFUL enough to Thailand and also as "guests" we supposedly have no right to opinions or criticisms about life in Thailand. Of course I reject that. But just adding this to further support the idea that the guest word here is LOADED and it cuts both ways.

Here's the thing: all of that is about attitudes of ThaiVisa posters (or maybe by extrapolation, foreigners in general).

Who cares?

It matters to some degree, I for what I would assume are obvious reasons, how Thais perceive me but for even that my concern has it's limits. What other foreigners feel they should be labelled - or how they think I should be...

Who cares?

*yes, I know. You don't suggest I should care. I merely mean to express my opinion that this is a non-issue.

By the way, the only time I've ever heard Thais refer to foreigners as "guests" in English was at a hotel. In Thai? When referring to a hotel guest - or a prostitute's customer.

[SteeleJoe]

When you are invited to the inside of a Thai home and seated at a regular table for a good dinner without paying or bringing anything with you you might be considered a guest in Thailand. How many times has this happened to you?

Many, many times.

[Jingthing]

Who cares?

How should I know?
But I do see at this point well over 100 people have voted. Thank you.

Also note, of course this poll in an expat forum is about foreigners use of the word in reference to ourselves.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Jingthing

[mamypoko]

verb yes noun no

(give me a break...I was PMS'ing)

[kevvy]

When you are invited to the inside of a Thai home and seated at a regular table for a good dinner without paying or bringing anything with you you might be considered a guest in Thailand. How many times has this happened to you?

yes , I am a guess in their home , but are you really a guess in their country , no I am resident as I pay taxes, employ Thai people and generally help economically to the country .

[Lung666]

When you are invited to the inside of a Thai home and seated at a regular table for a good dinner without paying or bringing anything with you you might be considered a guest in Thailand. How many times has this happened to you?

Many, many times.

at least once a week, but rarely inside, mostly outside (at a regular table).

[SteeleJoe]

This guest thing is somewhat LOADED and many different people react to the word in different ways when used (or not used) in reference to foreigners in Thailand.

As I've said for me it's use rubs me the wrong way (the point about internalizing a TOADY attitude towards Thai power over us to stay or go).

But the flip side of that is very real and we see it all the time on the forum. Countless times people have said things like: This is Thailand. We are all guests in Thailand. If you don't like it, GO HOME. (Heck: it's a bloody meme almost.)

In others words, as I read such sentiments, if you DO NOT consider yourself a "guest" you are not being RESPECTFUL enough to Thailand and also as "guests" we supposedly have no right to opinions or criticisms about life in Thailand. Of course I reject that.

But just adding this to further support the idea that the guest word here is LOADED and it cuts both ways.

In all fairness, and after a moment's more consideration, I do agree with the gist of your comment, in some respects.

"This is Thailand. We are all guests in Thailand. If you don't like it, GO HOME. (Heck: it's a bloody meme almost.)

In others words, as I read such sentiments, if you DO NOT consider yourself a "guest" you are not being RESPECTFUL enough to Thailand and also as "guests" we supposedly have no right to opinions or criticisms about life in Thailand."

People who think like that...well, invariably they are the ones who unceasingly and reflexively refuse to accept any and all critical comments about Thais or Thailand and will go to great lengths to come up with ways, no matter how preposterous, to try and dismiss it and as I've said before, I have possibly even more contempt for them as I do the people who unceasingly and reflexively insist on viewing anything and everything about Thais or Thailand in the worst possible way and will go to great lengths to come up with ways, no matter how preposterous, fallacious or dishonest to to do so.

Fuggem.

[Tatsujin]

When you are invited to the inside of a Thai home and seated at a regular table for a good dinner without paying or bringing anything with you you might be considered a guest in Thailand. How many times has this happened to you?

yes , I am a guess in their home , but are you really a guess in their country , no I am resident as I pay taxes, employ Thai people and generally help economically to the country .

Unless you have PR, you are a "guest" in this country who can be asked/told to leave at any moment. Resident implies you have certain rights, which you do not.

[bangkockney]

So many people seem to cling to a fear of being kicked out of Thailand. This is entirely irrational. Provide some evidence as to why you would be afraid this would happen?

If you genuinely fear that, then you must fear everything in life: from your plane crashing, being hit by a bus to having a flying pig land on you.

And where does this notion of not wanted here come from? Again, if you genuinely think that, look at your passport: why have you been granted so many stamps and or visas?

If we're not wanted, why is Thailand ranked globally so highly for ease of doing business?

If you continue to tell yourself these negative things enough, they will become your reality.

[Jingthing]

When you are invited to the inside of a Thai home and seated at a regular table for a good dinner without paying or bringing anything with you you might be considered a guest in Thailand. How many times has this happened to you?

yes , I am a guess in their home , but are you really a guess in their country , no I am resident as I pay taxes, employ Thai people and generally help economically to the country .

Unless you have PR, you are a "guest" in this country who can be asked/told to leave at any moment. Resident implies you have certain rights, which you do not.

You say guest. I say non-immigrant, expat, etc. In some cases this may just be a cultural difference between expats (guests?).

[Tatsujin]

So if you are "part of the family" now, I would presume then that you don't have to engage in visa runs, reporting, or any of the other things that foreigners here have to do?

If you do do any of those things, you are here on sufferance, nothing more, and you can be kicked out at any time.

Hmmm...

Being a foreigner.

Being part of someone's family here.

Being subject to arguably unreasonable immigration laws.

None of these is exclusive of another.

But carry on with your agenda and reveling in your bitter cynicism! I'm sure it works for you.

You call it being bitter, I call it being realistic and honest about how things actually are here.

But hey, after all these years, I"m still here and still love Thailand (mostly).

[SteeleJoe]

Who cares?

How should I know?

But I do see at this point well over 100 people have voted. Thank you.

Also note, of course this poll in an expat forum is about foreigners use of the word in reference to ourselves.

* I assumed you were a native speaker and were aware of what the entirely rhetorical question meant. It is an expression of complete lack of concern on the part of the person who said it.

* Congratulations.

* I have noted it. It has no bearing on my comment. (Other than reinforcing my reason for making it.)

Again, I am giving you my response to your posts. Is that inappropriate?

[Gsxrnz]

I consider myself a guest.

Has anybody on TV done the following poll?

Do you think the glass is:

1. Half Full?

2. Half Empty?

[Tatsujin]

When you are invited to the inside of a Thai home and seated at a regular table for a good dinner without paying or bringing anything with you you might be considered a guest in Thailand. How many times has this happened to you?

yes , I am a guess in their home , but are you really a guess in their country , no I am resident as I pay taxes, employ Thai people and generally help economically to the country .

Unless you have PR, you are a "guest" in this country who can be asked/told to leave at any moment. Resident implies you have certain rights, which you do not.

You say guest. I say non-immigrant, expat, etc. In some cases this may just be a cultural difference between expats (guests?).

This is where semantics comes into play JT doesn't it lol . . . the Thai bureaucracy call us "guests", but you can substitute any/all of those other words and it still comes down to the same facts. You are not a permanent resident (unless you have actually applied for and received PR of course) and therefore have no rights and priveleges and "can" be asked to leave at any point. Much like any guest you might have in your own home.

[SapanMaiFred]

voted yes - I chose (and nobody forced me) to spend time here in winter to enjoy the warm (if not hot) climate, compared to Europe as well as the great food. I consider to be a guest in a completely different world on the other side of the globe, where people have a completely different mentality and despite them wanting to become more and more westernized (unfortunately) still have lots of amazing ancient habits and most of the people are nice and friendly - at least here, where I live in the outskirts of Bkk